Here we go again TRS2018

If you look on the DLS, it proves I am right. The 3ft (36in) gauge diesel shunter no longer has a TRS2006 version and only a TRS2009 version

A few years ago there was a long and often very heated thread in these forums on this issue of updates replacing/removing older versions on the DLS. Auran/N3Vs policy has always been that once an asset has been uploaded to the DLS it stays there and is always available for download no matter how many times it is updated (and that applies to each of the updates as well) - the exception of course is copyright issues.

The original poster of that thread (who shall remain nameless because he is a well known poster and still inhabits these forums) believed like you that only the latest version of an asset was available for download. So when it was upgraded from (say) TRS2006 to TS12 he insisted that TRS2006 users would no longer be able to access it.

You are in illustrious company.
 
TS12 is an example of backwards compatibility because you can run TS2009 and TS2010 content in it, but not TRS2004 or TRS2006 ONLY content. (I believe there is a compatibility mode option that you can turn on, but not everyone uses it when the piece of content is from TRS2006).


I've been around since the early day's and to the best of my knowledge, there's no magical switch that you can turn on or off for "compatible mode" The last version of Trainz that is viewed as having this "compatible mode" is TS2012 49922. After 49922, things tightened up on errors/warnings CHECKING in CMP. A lot of content that was showing "errors/warnings" in CMP for TRS2006, TS2009, TS2010 & TS2012 49922, yet still worked in those version, started showing as "faulty" in CMP for TS2012 57xxx or above. (TS2012 SP1) and a lot of it won't work in TS2012 57xxx or above as is.

After TS2012 49922, you could no longer install Murchison 2, S&C, Carbon City using the .ja file method. TS2012 57xxx & above is now all DLS (downloaded from N3V method).

I have 180+ (approx) 3ft (36") Steam Loco's, Diesel Loco's & Rolling Stock. At a guess, 90% works OK in TS2010. 75% work in TS2012 49922 and only about 35%-45% works in TS2012 57xxx, TS2102 SP1 HF4 & Tane. Note; Ninety six of this 3ft content still shows errors in TS2012 49922, yet 80% of that still works in TS2012 49922...

I'm hoping that someday most of the "faulty" 3ft (36") content will be repaired up to Version 3.6, so that it will run error free in TS2012 49922 & above...

Many thanks to guys like Bendorsey, Philskene & (a few others) that have already either repaired some of the faulty 3ft loco's & rolling stock. (They now work in TS2012 & Tane). Or they have created new 3ft gauge rolling stock that works in TS2012 & Tane. (Cheers guys).

Here is an example of one of the 3ft rolling stock that has recently been repaired & is now on the DLS.



Cheers, Mac...
 
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Might as well chime in on this. Being one whos tried about every trainz version, i'm happy to see enw version come forth. Over the past 5 years, i've seen a lot change with Trainz. Yes, i started with 2012, but i've seen how trainz has changed over almost 20 years now just by playing about every version. Don't complain that "oh, a new version! it's gonna be terrible cuz all the bugz aren't fixxxed!!1!". Be grateful that there's a new version, cuz last time i checked, each version brought something new and exciting. Trainz 2004 brought us loco scripts and passangers scripts. TC3 brought us a heavily updated engine. 2012 brought us together with multiplayer. And T:ANE set the marker high with a brand new engine, shadows, new features, and more yet coming that is great. So next time, think about what may come in a new version and don't complain that the games broke or the next version might be as broken.
 
After reading the replies you received from your thread I felt compelled to put in my own comments. First of all I totally agree with you and here are my reasons. Several months ago I received an invitation from Trainz to be a beta tester. After agreeing I was able to download the beta software and start testing it for bugs. The first thing I discovered was that Cab View mode no longer worked. After informing them I was told "We know about this". This in itself is quite revealing as it shows that they have no respect for their users. They are writing code which is not tested properly and releasing it to their beta testers to get them to do the work for them. Beta testing should only be used for detecting unforeseen problems which are not detected by their own testers. There has been several instances where they release a new beta build and it breaks existing code. Sessions which used to work a certain way behave differently. Cases where the database gets corrupted and has to be rebuilt. Cases where a bug in the code corrupts the software and you have to exit the program and re-start it again so that it works properly. For instance you are working on a session and the program would terminate with error messages due to coding errors. I used to be a coder (I am now retired) and I would have been ashamed to release such code to beta testers. There are so many bugs that they are not coding anymore they are tinkering with code. Some people reading this might think that I have a vendetta against Trainz. On the contrary I would like them to succeed as the software has some potentials. My suggestion to you is whatever version of the software you are using just do so and try to work around the bugs. You are right by voting with your wallet and not encouraging them to pursue their corporate culture of a cavalier attitude toward their users. Why not they have plenty of loyal supporters which will tolerate anything they do to them. The emperor has no clothes. Have a nice day Mike
 
After reading the replies you received from your thread I felt compelled to put in my own comments. First of all I totally agree with you and here are my reasons. Several months ago I received an invitation from Trainz to be a beta tester. After agreeing I was able to download the beta software and start testing it for bugs. The first thing I discovered was that Cab View mode no longer worked. After informing them I was told "We know about this".

This in itself is quite revealing as it shows that they have no respect for their users. They are writing code which is not tested properly and releasing it to their beta testers to get them to do the work for them. Beta testing should only be used for detecting unforeseen problems which are not detected by their own testers. There has been several instances where they release a new beta build and it breaks existing code. Sessions which used to work a certain way behave differently.

Cases where the database gets corrupted and has to be rebuilt. Cases where a bug in the code corrupts the software and you have to exit the program and re-start it again so that it works properly. For instance you are working on a session and the program would terminate with error messages due to coding errors.

I used to be a coder (I am now retired) and I would have been ashamed to release such code to beta testers. There are so many bugs that they are not coding anymore they are tinkering with code. Some people reading this might think that I have a vendetta against Trainz. On the contrary I would like them to succeed as the software has some potentials. My suggestion to you is whatever version of the software you are using just do so and try to work around the bugs. You are right by voting with your wallet and not encouraging them to pursue their corporate culture of a cavalier attitude toward their users. Why not they have plenty of loyal supporters which will tolerate anything they do to them. The emperor has no clothes.

Have a nice day Mike

As a coder you should know that during beta testing some things get broken as other things are fixed. With the SP2 HF1 beta, there were substantial code changes made to include some new methods in the game engine. This then broke other things which lead to more issues, which at this point still haven't been completely resolved and N3V continues to improve, albeit, slowly. This is why it's called beta and why you don't use a production data-set, and use a test copy for your testing needs.

When they mention they're aware of the problem, there's a good chance it was reported by others already and they are on it. This has been the case with quite a few things which I've reported, and I feel good that the problem will be resolved. There have been cases too where I have reported things and through feedback between the QA team and myself, we've worked out that the problems together, or I needed to supply additional information which lead to a fix. The most recent issue that I reported was fixed in the current beta Build 902010, related to the AI not seeing past signals while switching. The QA team got back to me saying they noticed other things related to that and sure enough the issue was resolved in this build.

If you are referring to the Assertion Errors, these are deliberate breakpoints inserted to stop on errors. Your job, as a beta tester, is to report the error message - a screen capture works using whatever method you can. I found that using the Snipping Tool works for most cases for screen captures so I can zero in on what I need to show, while other more complex issues require a quick video clip, or in some cases Microsoft's Problem Steps Recorder, which allows you to capture video, screenshots, step-by-step notes, and add comments to the text if the issue can't be explained in a few words.

I do agree, however, that the first early releases of the program were pretty awful, but N3V has learned from those days and has moved on to much better reporting methods and processes. Unlike other versions, they have no intention of releasing this anytime soon until this version tests clean, which Tony has mentioned in his initial post on this.
 
After informing them I was told "We know about this". This in itself is quite revealing as it shows that they have no respect for their users. They are writing code which is not tested properly and releasing it to their beta testers to get them to do the work for them. Beta testing should only be used for detecting unforeseen problems which are not detected by their own testers

As John has pointed out in his post above, your report on the cab view bug was undoubtedly not the first they had received - hence the "We know about this" reply. Beta testers are world-wide and in virtually all time zones so while you were sleeping before you "discovered" and reported this bug, others would have already done so hours or even days before you. Exactly how does the fact that you were not the first to "discover" this bug an example of "no respect for their users"?

As a current beta tester and former coder myself, in my opinion you have the wrong idea of what beta testing is about. Your accusation that "They are writing code which is not tested properly and releasing it to their beta testers to get them to do the work for them" begs the question - how much testing and how many internal testers would they need to meet your expected testing regime? Microsoft, with all their resources, plus alpha and beta testers, cannot get their code "error free" before release so how could a small company hope to do so?

As a Trainz beta tester I have "found" and reported several bugs. A few were new to the Trainz programmers, but most were not. Those latter reports often served as confirmation of the bug on different hardware and software configurations, and under different circumstances so could have been as valuable as new reports.

I just don't see why you are complaining about the purpose and process of beta testing. As a former coder yourself, you should have been aware of its risks and requirements.
 
So this thread was resurrected after being dead for a month... I personally can't wait until the new Trainz Whatever (2018 maybe) comes out. TANE works great for me right now, and I expect the new version will be buggy on first release, but the program has become a monster, and really is getting cooler buy the year. I have my credit card in hand and will be buying the next release.

I did not sign up for the beta test, because I don't have the time right now to deal with the problems that go along with development, been there before, maybe when I retire in Trainz 2027 I will sign up for the beta, and then offer some constructive criticism to help that endeavor along.

Until then, I am enjoying Trainz, and anticipate the next rendition of it. I also hope that the next HotFix or SP comes out soon, I been watching and it looks like they might be close... having another shot of (insert your favorite liquor here), burp...
 
Moderator note:
Relick's post and related replies split off to separate topic. It can now be found here.

As a more general note:
If you have a problem with your game, please do some searching and make a support topic (in the related support forum) first :) .
 
So Ive just read this thread from start to end, pretty surprised (not really), there are still complaints about the buggy pile of software called TANE. To all those telling the people who complain to stop, take a break or go elsewhere, I dont know why they even frequent this thread, it isnt constructive to try and silence those with genuine grievances. In fact you people who say everything is fine and others should shut up are responsible for all crappy software being released, because if you jumped up and down at the beginning and stated like so many others did that it wasnt acceptable to release half-completed software, then the whole software industry would not have got the lazy way it is today with the attitude of "get it out, make as much as possible from it and fix it as we go", instead of doing the best job possible, releasing it and then improving it as it goes.

Complaints if listened to, makes for better software, saying there is nothing wrong when there are issues does not fix problems.

And yes, I could have a go at those trying to compare TANE to a operating system, all Im going to say is may God help you if you cant tell the difference and why they shouldnt be compared.

It is surprising to read from some people here who swore when TANE came out that it was great and they had no problems, now commenting in this thread that yes TANE had some problems when it was first released. Hooray, its finally sunk in with some people who were in denial, although 2 years and counting after many others saw the issues.

For the record, TANE is still a buggy load of dung, and I doubt that will ever change regardless of how many hot fixes, service packs, patches or anything else thrown at it although it is slowly improving. I just hope the developers have learned something from TANE and dont repeat it on their next version, they say they are listening to their customers, but yeah, we will see, it hasnt always been the case. In my case, I will only find out from these boards what the next version will be like as purchasing any future Trainz product for me is out of the question.

Yes, I was asked why if I had some many issues with mine that why didnt I become a beta tester. My reply is this. Why the hell would I want to voluntarily subject myself to even more issues as a beta tester when I am experiencing enough issues already (that I bought into thinking I was doing the right thing). Every time I turn on TANE, something else random is going on - track priorities not working, sections of track randomly missing, signals missing, areas of scenery and water missing, yet you restart it, they are back, although something else will be missing. Every time without fail I start it, it tries to reload some paid content, I have cleared it, deleted the content files, done numerous database fixes, downloaded them a hundred time, it still comes up, now I ignore it like so many other issues, life is more important than this game for me.

First visit back in several years, some things just dont change!!

My opinion only.
 
Welcome back ian, and yes nothing has changed. I enjoyed your observations although I would not compare TANE SP2 HF1 (beta) to a "load of dung" but I would have use that metaphor (had I thought of it first) for TANE SP2, which, believe it or not, was possibly worse than the initial release of TANE. In total contrast, I am actually enjoying using TANE SP2 HF1 (beta) which is, IMHO, the best Trainz version yet..

"Here we go again TRS2018" the thread that never dies.
 
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