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Thread: Here we go again TRS2018

  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by meatloaf747 View Post
    Sir, I'm not quite sure I'm following your logic here. TRS2006 built-in content still works perfectly well in TRS2006. TS2012 built-in content still works perfect in TS2012. If your saying that some/alot of your TRS2006 content won't work in TS2012, your correct. Content validation got really tightened up after TS2012 49922. (end of compatibility mode). A lot of the content that was showing only "warnings" in TRS2006, TS2009, TS2010 & TS2012 49922 started showing as "Faulty" in TS2012 SP1 57xxx. As some contents creators put it; "The goal posts got shifted".

    Now do I find it frustrating that a lot of that earlier content currently won't work in later versions of Trainz? "Yes I do". I'm grateful for what has already been updated. More will probably be updated and a percentage will never be updated. That's life...

    So if your saying that you have to upgrade to the latest version of Trainz, to run the latest versions of content, your correct again. If you can't afford to upgrade, (or your PC isn't cutting the mustard) then just stick with the contents that was made for the version of Trainz you are running. Review things down the track...

    Without me trying to appear sarcastic, let me try and give you an example of what I mean; Back in the day, when I still had a full crop of hair, (1990's) MS had Windows 3.1. I still have a version running on an old 486 I've stored. Now for some reason, my MS Office 2016 won't run on my old 486 computer that runs MS 3.1. All my old Windows 3.1 software doesn't seem to want to run on my latest Window10 PC. MS doesn't force you or I to upgrade ever 3-5 years. We upgraded because we wanted to run the latest and keep up with the times. Otherwise we just get left behind.

    No difference with Trainz/N3V. If you want to run the latest content, which looks a lot more realistic, runs a lot better, and has a few more bell & whistles, then upgrade. If not, then just stay with whatever you've got and run the contents that was built for that version of Trainz.

    Happy Trainzing...

    Cheers, Mac...
    When Trainz entered its new era with a splashscreen of a steam engine running full tilt away from a modern city, you would wonder just how far forward Trainz has managed to get. The implication here is the mechanical operation (virtual) of a steam engine is more significant than the intelligence evidenced in the signalling and track control, the rudimentary schedulling, and the host of scripts available to us.

    In some ways this is the fundamental division in how we view Trainz. The irony is that these outlooks do not involve graphics directly.
    Last edited by phimat; September 18th, 2017 at 12:04 PM. Reason: too many words..

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by meatloaf747 View Post
    Sir, I'm not quite sure I'm following your logic here. TRS2006 built-in content still works perfectly well in TRS2006. TS2012 built-in content still works perfect in TS2012. If your saying that some/alot of your TRS2006 content won't work in TS2012, your correct. Content validation got really tightened up after TS2012 49922. (end of compatibility mode). A lot of the content that was showing only "warnings" in TRS2006, TS2009, TS2010 & TS2012 49922 started showing as "Faulty" in TS2012 SP1 57xxx. As some contents creators put it; "The goal posts got shifted".

    Now do I find it frustrating that a lot of that earlier content currently won't work in later versions of Trainz? "Yes I do". I'm grateful for what has already been updated. More will probably be updated and a percentage will never be updated. That's life...

    So if your saying that you have to upgrade to the latest version of Trainz, to run the latest versions of content, your correct again. If you can't afford to upgrade, (or your PC isn't cutting the mustard) then just stick with the contents that was made for the version of Trainz you are running. Review things down the track...

    Without me trying to appear sarcastic, let me try and give you an example of what I mean; Back in the day, when I still had a full crop of hair, (1990's) MS had Windows 3.1. I still have a version running on an old 486 I've stored. Now for some reason, my MS Office 2016 won't run on my old 486 computer that runs MS 3.1. All my old Windows 3.1 software doesn't seem to want to run on my latest Window10 PC. MS doesn't force you or I to upgrade ever 3-5 years. We upgraded because we wanted to run the latest and keep up with the times. Otherwise we just get left behind.

    No difference with Trainz/N3V. If you want to run the latest content, which looks a lot more realistic, runs a lot better, and has a few more bell & whistles, then upgrade. If not, then just stay with whatever you've got and run the contents that was built for that version of Trainz.

    Happy Trainzing...

    Cheers, Mac...
    I am going to explain what I am saying a little easier in this post. After getting TRS2006 from Walmart around 2011 or 2012 (NO IDEA why they were still selling it 6 years after it came out. It has been outdated for years.) I started playing it immediately and got to a point were I was old enough and started prototypical operations and also started getting add-on content. After getting a My Trainz account I started downloading content from 3rd party websites and the DLS. HOWEVER, after doing this I realized built-in content from the game had become faulty. At first I had no idea why because it is built-in content. I started looking for some reason why they were faulty in Content Manager and found it tried to update the super old pieces of content. They were faulty now because there were newer versions of the same thing that had new or different dependencies. If the older version was left alone and a newer version started independently of the old one, this probably would not have happened. The only reason content manager did this is because it tried to update everything old on its own after I logged into my My Trainz account in content manager.

    This is what I was saying before, about either N3V with a route or someone updating a piece of content from an old game to a newer one and making it faulty because of version incompatibility. This will eventually happen to TS12 as well as TS2009 and TS2010 after certain pieces of content are updated to newer versions and the older version is not left alone. This happens because content manager cannot update or download ANYTHING that is not for your version of the game or if it is not compatible with your version of the game you are running content manager in. It doesn't let you, believe me, I have tried. TS12 is an example of backwards compatibility because you can run TS2009 and TS2010 content in it, but not TRS2004 or TRS2006 ONLY content. (I believe there is a compatibility mode option that you can turn on, but not everyone uses it when the piece of content is from TRS2006.)

    If you look on the DLS, it proves I am right. The 3ft (36in) gauge diesel shunter no longer has a TRS2006 version and only a TRS2009 version. Link: https://www.auran.com/DLS/DLS_viewas...AssetID=289427
    Last edited by MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS; September 19th, 2017 at 09:43 AM.
    I love switching, long consists and mainline runs! Any takers on making a better UP Big Boy for all of us?

  3. #78
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    Well there is a Trainz Classics 3 version available. Is that what you mean?

    36 in Diesel Shunter [Detailed]

    Newer Version Available - View History
    Trainz Classics 3
    Created by: narrowgauge
    File Size: 601.48 kb
    KUID2: <KUID2:44700:61:1>
    Date: 29th Apr 2013
    Downloaded: 3290

    History
    36 in Diesel Shunter [Detailed]
    TS2009 19th August 2013

    36 in Diesel Shunter [Detailed]
    Trainz Classics 3 29th April 2013


    70337:
    T:ANE SP2 build 88348 and TS12 SP1 HF4 build 61388 | Win7 SP1 64 bit, i7-4700HQ 2.4GHz 16 GB, GTX 870M

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS View Post
    If you look on the DLS, it proves I am right. The 3ft (36in) gauge diesel shunter no longer has a TRS2006 version and only a TRS2009 version. Link: https://www.auran.com/DLS/DLS_viewas...AssetID=289427
    No you are wrong old version is on the DLS and available for download go to web page and search for <KUID2:44700:61:1> Comes up with a note that there is also a newer version. You can download the old version

    Or in TANE right click on the new version, Show asset versions, old versions are listed, highlight it and right click download this version and you will download <KUID2:44700:61:1>
    Malc


  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS View Post
    I am going to explain what I am saying a little easier in this post. After getting TRS2006 from Walmart around 2011 or 2012 (NO IDEA why they were still selling it 6 years after it came out. It has been outdated for years.) I started playing it immediately and got to a point were I was old enough and started prototypical operations and also started getting add-on content. After getting a My Trainz account I started downloading content from 3rd party websites and the DLS. HOWEVER, after doing this I realized built-in content from the game had become faulty. At first I had no idea why because it is built-in content. I started looking for some reason why they were faulty in Content Manager and found it tried to update the super old pieces of content. They were faulty now because there were newer versions of the same thing that had new or different dependencies. If the older version was left alone and a newer version started independently of the old one, this probably would not have happened. The only reason content manager did this is because it tried to update everything old on its own after I logged into my My Trainz account in content manager.

    This is what I was saying before, about either N3V with a route or someone updating a piece of content from an old game to a newer one and making it faulty because of version incompatibility. This will eventually happen to TS12 as well as TS2009 and TS2010 after certain pieces of content are updated to newer versions and the older version is not left alone. This happens because content manager cannot update or download ANYTHING that is not for your version of the game or if it is not compatible with your version of the game you are running content manager in. It doesn't let you, believe me, I have tried. TS12 is an example of backwards compatibility because you can run TS2009 and TS2010 content in it, but not TRS2004 or TRS2006 ONLY content. (I believe there is a compatibility mode option that you can turn on, but not everyone uses it when the piece of content is from TRS2006.)

    If you look on the DLS, it proves I am right. The 3ft (36in) gauge diesel shunter no longer has a TRS2006 version and only a TRS2009 version. Link: https://www.auran.com/DLS/DLS_viewas...AssetID=289427
    Content updates are done by content creators and not by N3V. Downloading and updating content is up to the discretion of the end-user.

    That block, which you are kvetching about, is done for a very good reason. As content is updated, there are things that are sometimes changed to take into consideration, such as newer features for example, which are not available in the previous version. If you were to bring an updated locomotive, such as the one you described, into Trainz, it can and will break things as you've found out.

    It's called moving forward and is quite necessary in the software world. If you remain in the past, you have to use the older content and there's then no reason to update.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    TS12 Build: 61388
    T:ANE Build: 88348

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS View Post
    If you look on the DLS, it proves I am right. The 3ft (36in) gauge diesel shunter no longer has a TRS2006 version and only a TRS2009 version
    A few years ago there was a long and often very heated thread in these forums on this issue of updates replacing/removing older versions on the DLS. Auran/N3Vs policy has always been that once an asset has been uploaded to the DLS it stays there and is always available for download no matter how many times it is updated (and that applies to each of the updates as well) - the exception of course is copyright issues.

    The original poster of that thread (who shall remain nameless because he is a well known poster and still inhabits these forums) believed like you that only the latest version of an asset was available for download. So when it was upgraded from (say) TRS2006 to TS12 he insisted that TRS2006 users would no longer be able to access it.

    You are in illustrious company.
    A member of the "Party Machine". Now if only I could remember where they are holding the party!

  7. #82
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    Talking

    [QUOTE=MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS;1625036] TS12 is an example of backwards compatibility because you can run TS2009 and TS2010 content in it, but not TRS2004 or TRS2006 ONLY content. (I believe there is a compatibility mode option that you can turn on, but not everyone uses it when the piece of content is from TRS2006).


    I've been around since the early day's and to the best of my knowledge, there's no magical switch that you can turn on or off for "compatible mode" The last version of Trainz that is viewed as having this "compatible mode" is TS2012 49922. After 49922, things tightened up on errors/warnings CHECKING in CMP. A lot of content that was showing "errors/warnings" in CMP for TRS2006, TS2009, TS2010 & TS2012 49922, yet still worked in those version, started showing as "faulty" in CMP for TS2012 57xxx or above. (TS2012 SP1) and a lot of it won't work in TS2012 57xxx or above as is.

    After TS2012 49922, you could no longer install Murchison 2, S&C, Carbon City using the .ja file method. TS2012 57xxx & above is now all DLS (downloaded from N3V method).

    I have 180+ (approx) 3ft (36") Steam Loco's, Diesel Loco's & Rolling Stock. At a guess, 90% works OK in TS2010. 75% work in TS2012 49922 and only about 35%-45% works in TS2012 57xxx, TS2102 SP1 HF4 & Tane. Note; Ninety six of this 3ft content still shows errors in TS2012 49922, yet 80% of that still works in TS2012 49922...

    I'm hoping that someday most of the "faulty" 3ft (36") content will be repaired up to Version 3.6, so that it will run error free in TS2012 49922 & above...

    Many thanks to guys like Bendorsey, Philskene & (a few others) that have already either repaired some of the faulty 3ft loco's & rolling stock. (They now work in TS2012 & Tane). Or they have created new 3ft gauge rolling stock that works in TS2012 & Tane. (Cheers guys).

    Here is an example of one of the 3ft rolling stock that has recently been repaired & is now on the DLS.



    Cheers, Mac...
    Last edited by meatloaf747; September 19th, 2017 at 08:30 PM.

  8. #83
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    Might as well chime in on this. Being one whos tried about every trainz version, i'm happy to see enw version come forth. Over the past 5 years, i've seen a lot change with Trainz. Yes, i started with 2012, but i've seen how trainz has changed over almost 20 years now just by playing about every version. Don't complain that "oh, a new version! it's gonna be terrible cuz all the bugz aren't fixxxed!!1!". Be grateful that there's a new version, cuz last time i checked, each version brought something new and exciting. Trainz 2004 brought us loco scripts and passangers scripts. TC3 brought us a heavily updated engine. 2012 brought us together with multiplayer. And T:ANE set the marker high with a brand new engine, shadows, new features, and more yet coming that is great. So next time, think about what may come in a new version and don't complain that the games broke or the next version might be as broken.

  9. #84

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    After reading the replies you received from your thread I felt compelled to put in my own comments. First of all I totally agree with you and here are my reasons. Several months ago I received an invitation from Trainz to be a beta tester. After agreeing I was able to download the beta software and start testing it for bugs. The first thing I discovered was that Cab View mode no longer worked. After informing them I was told "We know about this". This in itself is quite revealing as it shows that they have no respect for their users. They are writing code which is not tested properly and releasing it to their beta testers to get them to do the work for them. Beta testing should only be used for detecting unforeseen problems which are not detected by their own testers. There has been several instances where they release a new beta build and it breaks existing code. Sessions which used to work a certain way behave differently. Cases where the database gets corrupted and has to be rebuilt. Cases where a bug in the code corrupts the software and you have to exit the program and re-start it again so that it works properly. For instance you are working on a session and the program would terminate with error messages due to coding errors. I used to be a coder (I am now retired) and I would have been ashamed to release such code to beta testers. There are so many bugs that they are not coding anymore they are tinkering with code. Some people reading this might think that I have a vendetta against Trainz. On the contrary I would like them to succeed as the software has some potentials. My suggestion to you is whatever version of the software you are using just do so and try to work around the bugs. You are right by voting with your wallet and not encouraging them to pursue their corporate culture of a cavalier attitude toward their users. Why not they have plenty of loyal supporters which will tolerate anything they do to them. The emperor has no clothes. Have a nice day Mike

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjsalman View Post
    After reading the replies you received from your thread I felt compelled to put in my own comments. First of all I totally agree with you and here are my reasons. Several months ago I received an invitation from Trainz to be a beta tester. After agreeing I was able to download the beta software and start testing it for bugs. The first thing I discovered was that Cab View mode no longer worked. After informing them I was told "We know about this".

    This in itself is quite revealing as it shows that they have no respect for their users. They are writing code which is not tested properly and releasing it to their beta testers to get them to do the work for them. Beta testing should only be used for detecting unforeseen problems which are not detected by their own testers. There has been several instances where they release a new beta build and it breaks existing code. Sessions which used to work a certain way behave differently.

    Cases where the database gets corrupted and has to be rebuilt. Cases where a bug in the code corrupts the software and you have to exit the program and re-start it again so that it works properly. For instance you are working on a session and the program would terminate with error messages due to coding errors.

    I used to be a coder (I am now retired) and I would have been ashamed to release such code to beta testers. There are so many bugs that they are not coding anymore they are tinkering with code. Some people reading this might think that I have a vendetta against Trainz. On the contrary I would like them to succeed as the software has some potentials. My suggestion to you is whatever version of the software you are using just do so and try to work around the bugs. You are right by voting with your wallet and not encouraging them to pursue their corporate culture of a cavalier attitude toward their users. Why not they have plenty of loyal supporters which will tolerate anything they do to them. The emperor has no clothes.

    Have a nice day Mike
    As a coder you should know that during beta testing some things get broken as other things are fixed. With the SP2 HF1 beta, there were substantial code changes made to include some new methods in the game engine. This then broke other things which lead to more issues, which at this point still haven't been completely resolved and N3V continues to improve, albeit, slowly. This is why it's called beta and why you don't use a production data-set, and use a test copy for your testing needs.

    When they mention they're aware of the problem, there's a good chance it was reported by others already and they are on it. This has been the case with quite a few things which I've reported, and I feel good that the problem will be resolved. There have been cases too where I have reported things and through feedback between the QA team and myself, we've worked out that the problems together, or I needed to supply additional information which lead to a fix. The most recent issue that I reported was fixed in the current beta Build 902010, related to the AI not seeing past signals while switching. The QA team got back to me saying they noticed other things related to that and sure enough the issue was resolved in this build.

    If you are referring to the Assertion Errors, these are deliberate breakpoints inserted to stop on errors. Your job, as a beta tester, is to report the error message - a screen capture works using whatever method you can. I found that using the Snipping Tool works for most cases for screen captures so I can zero in on what I need to show, while other more complex issues require a quick video clip, or in some cases Microsoft's Problem Steps Recorder, which allows you to capture video, screenshots, step-by-step notes, and add comments to the text if the issue can't be explained in a few words.

    I do agree, however, that the first early releases of the program were pretty awful, but N3V has learned from those days and has moved on to much better reporting methods and processes. Unlike other versions, they have no intention of releasing this anytime soon until this version tests clean, which Tony has mentioned in his initial post on this.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    TS12 Build: 61388
    T:ANE Build: 88348

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjsalman View Post
    After informing them I was told "We know about this". This in itself is quite revealing as it shows that they have no respect for their users. They are writing code which is not tested properly and releasing it to their beta testers to get them to do the work for them. Beta testing should only be used for detecting unforeseen problems which are not detected by their own testers
    As John has pointed out in his post above, your report on the cab view bug was undoubtedly not the first they had received - hence the "We know about this" reply. Beta testers are world-wide and in virtually all time zones so while you were sleeping before you "discovered" and reported this bug, others would have already done so hours or even days before you. Exactly how does the fact that you were not the first to "discover" this bug an example of "no respect for their users"?

    As a current beta tester and former coder myself, in my opinion you have the wrong idea of what beta testing is about. Your accusation that "They are writing code which is not tested properly and releasing it to their beta testers to get them to do the work for them" begs the question - how much testing and how many internal testers would they need to meet your expected testing regime? Microsoft, with all their resources, plus alpha and beta testers, cannot get their code "error free" before release so how could a small company hope to do so?

    As a Trainz beta tester I have "found" and reported several bugs. A few were new to the Trainz programmers, but most were not. Those latter reports often served as confirmation of the bug on different hardware and software configurations, and under different circumstances so could have been as valuable as new reports.

    I just don't see why you are complaining about the purpose and process of beta testing. As a former coder yourself, you should have been aware of its risks and requirements.
    A member of the "Party Machine". Now if only I could remember where they are holding the party!

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    So this thread was resurrected after being dead for a month... I personally can't wait until the new Trainz Whatever (2018 maybe) comes out. TANE works great for me right now, and I expect the new version will be buggy on first release, but the program has become a monster, and really is getting cooler buy the year. I have my credit card in hand and will be buying the next release.

    I did not sign up for the beta test, because I don't have the time right now to deal with the problems that go along with development, been there before, maybe when I retire in Trainz 2027 I will sign up for the beta, and then offer some constructive criticism to help that endeavor along.

    Until then, I am enjoying Trainz, and anticipate the next rendition of it. I also hope that the next HotFix or SP comes out soon, I been watching and it looks like they might be close... having another shot of (insert your favorite liquor here), burp...
    If it's not broke, don't fix it.

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    [QUOTE=meatloaf747;1625116]
    Quote Originally Posted by MTH_ELECTRIC_TRAINS View Post
    Here is an example of one of the 3ft rolling stock that has recently been repaired & is now on the DLS.

    FWIW this repair was done by the CRG. See: http://www.trainzportal.com/blog/vie...ets-on-the-dls

  14. #89

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    Moderator note:
    Relick's post and related replies split off to separate topic. It can now be found here.

    As a more general note:
    If you have a problem with your game, please do some searching and make a support topic (in the related support forum) first .

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