Dear N3V: we do not need a new product every two minutes...

Allow me to preface this by saying that I love TANE and by extension love N3V for it. That being said, why do they seem to want to release a new product what seems like every two minutes? From TMR 2017 to Trainz Driver 2017, and all this while working on this Trainz NEXT thing. Seriously N3V, while I adore TANE, I feel like I should point out that the world will not end if you don't release mildly edited versions of it for a bit.
 
Easy answer: because they want to make money.

The good news is:
Nobody forces you to buy them!

Anyway,
All 3 products you mentioned are more or less the same thing. Trainz Driver is TANE without Surveyor; less expensive and (only) interesting for those that don't want to build there own routes. TMR is TANE but with different routes. Or at least that is how I see it; I am sure I missed a detail left or right.
 
While I understand that point of view, in the real world businesses would not survive if they stood still for more than "two minutes". Every car manufacturer, for example, brings out new models every year (last years model is so ... "last year") and not just in different colours but in multiple versions as well.

Microsoft has released two major updates (SPs) to Windows 10 and countless "patches" and "upgrades" since it was released. Likewise my computer seems to be constantly telling me that another update for "this" or "that" is now ready to be installed.

TANE was released in May 2015. Since then it has had 2 SPs and I don't know how many HFs (maybe 4 or 5 counting the ones for SP1 and the yet to be released SP2HF1). I can understand that in the world of software development, a year is like a minute so your two minute analogy is probably fitting. While software SPs are often designed to add new features, they also bring bug, security and performance fixes (although some here may disagree). HFs fix more serious and immediate problems. Both SPs and HFs can be analogous to automotive product recalls of which we seem to have an endless number.

It is now a part of computer life and, personally, I would be more worried if N3V stood still and did nothing for the "two minutes".
 
Trainz A New Era - released May 2015
(Plus many free updates since and more to come)
Trainz Driver 2016 - released Feb 2016 (subset of TANE for people who don't want to edit)
Trainz Model Railroad 2017 - released Dec 2016 (Route pack focussed on model railroads)

Perhaps check the minute hand on your watch - it might be stuck ;)
 
LOL! If you think that N3V is on a fast-release schedule, then you should check around and see what other companies are doing. I have been a customer of PG Music products for two decades now (yes, since the 90s), and their flagship product, Band-In-A-Box, is now updated twice a year. They will have the 0.5 version come out mid-year, with the year-end update sweetly released just before Christmas!

Well, their Realtracks and Styles are similar in marketing to assets and routes in Trainz, and they are expanded and enhanced twice a year. The new features in the product are nice, but typically just "icing on the cake" kind of changes. We pay the big bucks (the product is so huge that it has to be shipped on hard drives), just to have the new music backing tracks more than new program features.

Perhaps N3V can take notice of Peter Gannon's marketing methodology--it has been quite successful for his company, for sure.
 
That being said, why do they seem to want to release a new product what seems like every two minutes?

With all due respect Sir,

I'm going to put myself out on a limb here and take a really wild guess. I wonder if it has anything to do with them "doing whatever's necessary to keep the doors open & to stay in business" ???

When I was in business, unfortunately service packs & hotfix updates didn't pay the bills!

New products, bring them on...

Cheers, Mac...
 
Last edited:
I will buy every new version full versions of Trainz for PC they put out, would really like a 'NEXT' or 'New Version', but NV3 needs to figure out how to keep the old content relevant, that's what really makes Trainz a winner, 'The Content', without that, it's done.

I keep buying my kids and grandkids all these gaming consoles every Christmas for hundreds of dollars, so why would I not buy a new version of Trainz every year. I understand the way it works that way. If you don't keep updating and coming out with new versions to sell, the product will die a slow and miserable death. I don't want to see that happen to Trainz... So keep them coming, and not talking about service packs and hotfixes. If you build them, buyers will come....

IMO
 
Dear N3V: we do not need a new product every two minutes...

We? Are you not confident enough in your opinion to stand alone with it? At what point did "I" become "we"?
 
Dear N3V: we do not need a new product every two minutes...

We? Are you not confident enough in your opinion to stand alone with it? At what point did "I" become "we"?
:)
I agree there! It is far wiser to say "I," and then, if your opinion is shared widely, additional posts will add the "we" factor...far more legitimate a position, I'd say.

I whined about TMR2017, but I apparently wasn't alone. N3V responded well by letting us access these great routes in T:ANE. Okay, I had wanted a Model Railroad toyset separate from my big route playground, but this was a good alternative.

In my opinion, N3V is far more responsive to comments and issues than many forum members acknowledge. N3V is certainly more responsive than several other software companies with whom I have had dealings.

Happy, happy, happy!
 
Hello again! Id just like to clarify some points. First, I said 'we' because I just put whatever words came to my head first. Secondly, I wouldn't mind fairly frequent products, but both TMR and TD2016 just seemed a little unneeded. Regardless, I have seen that I may be wrong. Nice to have a discussion though. Also, two minutes is obvious exaggeration.

Regards to all posters,
Lightningagent
 
Hello again! Id just like to clarify some points. First, I said 'we' because I just put whatever words came to my head first. Secondly, I wouldn't mind fairly frequent products, but both TMR and TD2016 just seemed a little unneeded. Regardless, I have seen that I may be wrong. Nice to have a discussion though. Also, two minutes is obvious exaggeration.

Regards to all posters,
Lightningagent

One thing to remember, not everyone has been using this game since the Auran days, and not everyone wants/needs to have ever single feature the game offers. Some people new to the train sim world, or those with kids like to have options, and when some of those options are a little less money and still do exactly what they want, its more appealing to them. Same reason why computers, tablets, phones, cars, food, clothes ect. all come in varying configurations, colors, sizes.....to offer more than a "1 size fits all."
 
I've probably got this whole thing backwards, but I've often thought the time someone is spending on a route or other product could that time be more wisely spent on helping iron out problems with the game? Maybe then the quicker things get straightened out and the quicker people slow down complaining here and wherever else, the more game and add-on purchases would be made?
Dean
 
...Maybe then the quicker things get straightened out and the quicker people slow down complaining here and wherever else, the more game and add-on purchases would be made?...
So far the feeling that I've had is that N3V is being quite responsive in improving all of their products.

But if TD2016 was my thing, I would be whining that product improvements are lagging behind. I would be whining that Android isn't getting the fair shake it deserves. I would be whining that T:ANE isn't getting enough attention, and that the product improvement is far too slow in coming. I haven't seen a new route for a couple weeks, so I could whine that my addiction isn't being fed fast enough.

Bottom line, it's human nature to whine...:confused:
 
Hello again! Id just like to clarify some points. First, I said 'we' because I just put whatever words came to my head first. Secondly, I wouldn't mind fairly frequent products, but both TMR and TD2016 just seemed a little unneeded. Regardless, I have seen that I may be wrong. Nice to have a discussion though. Also, two minutes is obvious exaggeration.

Regards to all posters,
Lightningagent

It appears that you don't quite understand how businesses work, and in particular those that sell products or services. N3V basically has a single product called T:ANE. These other products are based on the same underlying technology with various parts enabled or disabled, or with other features not found in the other products. This is not unknown as it gives the company additional products to sell even though they use some of the underlying technology of the other. With technology being the same across multiple products, updating one can also mean updating the others too without needing to start from scratch.

N3V is not unique in this regard. Microsoft has done it for years. Think about their various Windows versions such as XP Home versus Professional, or Windows 2000 Server versus Windows 2000 Professional. The same with automobile manufacturers. You can get a Chevy Camaro with a blue body, big engine, smaller engine, silvery wheels, black wheels, and so many other components mixed and matched in packages. The same with red ones or silver ones with various optional packages. These too is based around a base product and have some features which are unique to that particular model, but for the most part include most of what's in the base product.

In the past I worked for a video terminal manufacturer which had a dozen different models. Each terminal product shared the same basic chassis, keyboard, and CRT, but had a different motherboard. Motherboards too had sub-models based on that particular model. Using their small terminal products as an example, the Visual V-50, V-55, and V-65 were all based around the same chassis, CRT, motherboard, and keyboard. The difference was the firmware which changed the features, for example. What's interesting is these used the same keyboard and CRT found on their CP/M-based V-1050 personal computer, and exactly the same keyboard found on the V-102-series products.

Using Chevy again as an example, if you wanted a red Camaro with silvery wheels, but they only sold blue ones with black wheels, they would lose that sale. Making variations and sub-products gives the manufacturer multiple products while using the same underlying core.

Back to T:ANE products before we get too far lost.

TD2016 is Driver only.

This product works well for those people that are not interested in building huge routes and fiddling with content. It works well too for children who are interested in driving only. Last year, in June actually, I was at a train show and demonstrated a route which is in progress. We had various visitors, who looked at the WIP route, which was for a specific project and future museum demonstration. On my laptop I also had the full version of T:ANE with all my content as well as the route which was being worked on.

People would see the demonstration videos, and then of course ask how "We did it". I would then segue to T:ANE, start it up (it was already minimized), and poke around various routes, and let people see how we build them. There were quite a number of young children there including some who are quite familiar with Trainz. One young lad, probably around 8 years old said "Oh that's Trainz! Cool! I have that at home." I then let him drive the route in progress. He knew how to go about it. There were other people that came in who were not as astute on the product, but they had fun anyway after some coaxing.

Among the crowd, the word crowd being use rather liberally here, was a very severely mentally disabled young man. He loved trains and loved watching them. His caretaker, probably him mum, said he doesn't have the coordination to build stuff but likes to drive them and has Railworks (some version). She then asked me about T:ANE and I told her about the Driver products. The young man had no problems driving and was quite happy using one of the external cameras to watch the trains pass by the view.

TMR2017

It appears you haven't been here for long, but if you were to look back at various Trainz versions, in fact look at some of the product lines associated with some of us here. You will see Trainz Classics 1&2, and in some cases Trainz Classics 3. These too are a subset of the full Trainz versions. They came with the full product, but contained a specific and small amount of content only for the routes that were sold with the product. Classics 1&2 was based around passenger operations in the greater New York City metro region while Classics 3 was based around UK rail operations and came with its own version of the Settle and Carlisle route.

These sub-versions too are based around the same game engines which were available at the time of their release with Classics 1&2 being closer to TRS2006, and Classics 3 being TS2009. They may contain some newer features which put them in between, such as the TMR2017 being slightly ahead of T:ANE at its release, but they are essentially the same products.

This too is a niche product based on a Pre-SP2 game engine. This product was aimed at those who want to build stuff based around a model railroad theme without the larger quantity of huge routes which comes with T:ANE. Since it is essentially T:ANE, people can and do import as much content, including large routes if they want.

There's a lot more I could say on this, but I think this drives home the important points we've been discussing.
 
Last edited:
I would suggest that part of the discontent expressed here is due to the fact that, unlike the case with most software service packs and bug fixes, N3V chose to introduce an entirely new file format for saved sessions and routes, which seems to have seriously impacted backwards compatibility within the same version. I would certainly expect that when buying a new version of Trainz (or "T:ANE Next" for that matter) that there would be some things from earlier versions that would not work right, and particularly that things created in the new version would not work on the previous. There would also be some new bugs to fix. This is expected, if sometimes aggravating.

However, when a route and session created in T:ANE does not load properly in T:ANE, regardless of whatever service pack or hot fix has intervened, this is going to cause confusion and hence resentment no matter how managed. Other behind-the-scenes machinery has changed (for example) so that Enhanced Interlocking Towers which were created for T:ANE will not work in SP2 without locating and installing an update. I realize this is a third-party enhancement, but it's nonetheless changes in the underlying SP2 code that caused the breakage. And, of course, still more assets are now flagged as broken. All of this is in the name of preparing for the next great version of Trainz, but perhaps many of these changes would have been better saved for that next version and attention focused on fixing the existing bugs in SP1 without adding a crop of new ones in SP2 due to the major changes in underlying code.

Sorry if this approaches a rant; that's not my intention. The Trainz team has obviously been working their programming fingers to the bone in fixing problems. I just think that perhaps some of the goals were a little too ambitious for what ideally would have been solely a major set of bug fixes to make T:ANE a better (and less frustrating) experience.

--Lamont
 
I would suggest that part of the discontent expressed here is due to the fact that, unlike the case with most software service packs and bug fixes, N3V chose to introduce an entirely new file format for saved sessions and routes, which seems to have seriously impacted backwards compatibility within the same version. I would certainly expect that when buying a new version of Trainz (or "T:ANE Next" for that matter) that there would be some things from earlier versions that would not work right, and particularly that things created in the new version would not work on the previous. There would also be some new bugs to fix. This is expected, if sometimes aggravating.

However, when a route and session created in T:ANE does not load properly in T:ANE, regardless of whatever service pack or hot fix has intervened, this is going to cause confusion and hence resentment no matter how managed. Other behind-the-scenes machinery has changed (for example) so that Enhanced Interlocking Towers which were created for T:ANE will not work in SP2 without locating and installing an update. I realize this is a third-party enhancement, but it's nonetheless changes in the underlying SP2 code that caused the breakage. And, of course, still more assets are now flagged as broken. All of this is in the name of preparing for the next great version of Trainz, but perhaps many of these changes would have been better saved for that next version and attention focused on fixing the existing bugs in SP1 without adding a crop of new ones in SP2 due to the major changes in underlying code.

Sorry if this approaches a rant; that's not my intention. The Trainz team has obviously been working their programming fingers to the bone in fixing problems. I just think that perhaps some of the goals were a little too ambitious for what ideally would have been solely a major set of bug fixes to make T:ANE a better (and less frustrating) experience.

--Lamont

Whats this got to do with the OP's moan about new versions? I just can't see the link? Why should a new version route work on a old version Trainz software? It's like moaning about paint 3d not working on Windows XP (which some of the luddites on here think is the bee's knee's!) :'(

Regards.
CaptEngland (living in 2017, not 2001!)
 
There has never been a backwards compatibility with this software, whatever version. The file changes have gone on for years with some being a bit more shocking to us than others, for lack of any other description. This is true of most software anyway including operating systems.

The changes implemented in SP2 HF1 are for the better as the problems are being ironed out. It was even said that there are some major changes done in this service pack and Hotfix. (We could discuss whether that should have been done in this hotfix, or in a full new version, but that's another discussion to ponder over). And as usual things came up even after the amount of testing we did on the product. These came out as the user base got larger than what was used for testing due to the uniqueness of the various hardware setups, content, and product usage. This sadly isn't unknown either in product testing and then first release, thus, we're heading into HF2.

Third-party content will always lag behind the program since that relies on others, outside the company of course, to update and bring forward. The EIT is a good example of that along with lots of other scripted content. Unlike other software products, outside of office suites and big corporate software packages, Trainz is unique in the sense that what was used in the past can for the most part be used in the current products. We we've grown to love and hate this as, this has proven to be something that's both a blessing and a curse. N3V had that option, when first developing T:ANE, to have left all the old stuff behind, but then again what would we have today. It's that dual-edged sword thing again we have to deal with.

Sure I understand your frustrations. As a user as well, I too have encountered a number of them, but also have seen that some of the things I've reported have been fixed as well. It's with that in mind that I am grateful that the development and test teams have worked really hard to bring us up to where we are now.
 
Hello again! Id just like to clarify some points. First, I said 'we' because I just put whatever words came to my head first. Secondly, I wouldn't mind fairly frequent products, but both TMR and TD2016 just seemed a little unneeded. Regardless, I have seen that I may be wrong. Nice to have a discussion though. Also, two minutes is obvious exaggeration.

Regards to all posters,
Lightningagent

Hello there,

I've been here since Dec 2001, and I've seen trainz grow! :udrool:

The basic functions will always be there, meaning we can drive a trainz / built a route!

But I'll pot a bit differently from everyone else, who have posted on this thread!


If there's no a trainz product every two years, which is the norm for N3V, then this will get boring and died!

I think, sir, you need to ask yourself "what do I use this sim for?" .... and when you answer that question you can then decide which trainz product to buy; Or just sit back, have a cup of coffee, and wait to see what's the next version of trainz has to offer .... that's what I do! :hehe:

Kind Regards
Ish
 
Back
Top