Qualcomm Arm Technology comes to Windows PCs

wholbr

New member
One of Microsoft’s more prominent announcements in 2016 was that Windows 10s will run on ARM processors, breaking Intel’s lock on the Windows platform. However, it has now been further announced that Arm based Qualcomm processers will power the one time smartphone-focused Windows 10 Mobile, which was surprisingly followed by the further announcement that also included will be the full version of Windows 10 that run Microsoft's desktop PCs. In the foregoing a new generation of PC device's are to be developed powered by the latest Qualcomm 835 processers

Not only will Windows 10 devices run on ARM processors, but full desktop apps like Office 2016 and Adobe Photoshop will run on them also. By various accounts, Windows 10 PCs and laptops will first arrive with above Qualcomm’s Snapdragon processors sometime late this year. ARM support for Windows 10 is important because it makes a wider range of device types possible. ARM processors are usually more power-efficient than Intel’s PC processors, and system-on-chip solutions like the Snapdragon 835 include cellular communications and LTE data connectivity built-in.

Microsoft and Qualcomm have already collaborated on a new “cellular PC” concept that will bring extremely thin and light PC notebooks with LTE data. By all accounts, the Snapdragon 835 will be fast enough to support both the core Windows 10 operating system and the emulation engine that will allow it to run full desktop Windows applications.

According to Qualcomm major device manufacturers are on board, with a number of Windows 10 machines set to use the Snapdragon 835 arriving later in 2017. These will be midrange devices in terms of price, but there will not be a great range of them at launch. As Keith Kressin, Qualcomm’s senior vice president for product management stated, “It will start limited, but you will see more device's and system setups as we head into 2018 and 2019. It’s a patient move into the market, and establishing a new value proposition.”

While nobody expects these ARM-based Windows 10 machines to perform like high-end Intel-based PC gaming systems and workstations at startup, they should provide good enough performance for the majority of productivity and general computing tasks. It’s reasonable to expect cellular PCs to arrive at some point in smartphone-sized packages, which would fulfill the long promised full Microsoft Windows 10 Surface phone conseption. If Microsoft extends its Windows 10 Mobile Continuum concept to running desktop apps with the smallest cellular PCs being attached wirelessly to external displays, keyboards, and mice, then the holy grail of a single computing device that can meet all of a user’s computing needs could be realized.

Other possibilities include support for Windows 10 Holographic for virtual reality (VR) applications based on the new VR and mixed-reality capabilities built into Windows 10 Creators Update. The Snapdragon 835 supports the majority of PC components such as USB, and therefore cellular PCs should enjoy robust peripheral support as a result.

Some of the main details remain sketchy, but Qualcomm and Microsoft are clearly committed to bringing new power efficient, thin, and light Windows 10 machines to the market. However, with full support for Windows desktop applications, the new cellular PC platform should avoid the Windows RT debacle that saw Microsoft’s original Surface PC fail in the market, while ushering in a new kind of PC that lets users work anywhere without compromise.

The foregoing also brings the prospect of the present android two and a half million mainly casual gaming apps being brought to the Windows platform with all the improved user experience that would bring and with that very much expanded sales prospects for the Microsoft windows platform.

As stated, the foregoing will be limited at first release, but if the rapid rate of Qualcomm Arm based technology continues on as at present then the prospect of high end gaming based on Arm architecture may be forthcoming in the not to distant future. For high end gamers that would mean lower cost, small, quieter and cooler running systems that would have a much larger range of both high end and casual games on offer to them along with LTE mobile connectivity.

Quite a prospect, therefore "bring it on" I feel. High time that new ideas and technology came to the to-long moribund Intel based Windows system and platform.
Bill
 
Hi Everybody.
It has been several weeks since Microsoft and Qualcomm announced that they would launch a Windows laptop powered by ARM based processors . While both tech companies did not announce the development at this year’s IFA conference, Qualcomm confirmed that the first Windows 10 ARM PC would come with Snapdragon 835 on chip technology (SOC)

The PC is said to be scheduled for a Q4 launch. However, many analysts feel it would have made more sense for Microsoft to release the laptop in the period that students are shopping for their return to education . However, it is hoped that the release will be in time for the Christmas holidays, and apart from those two pieces of info, nothing else had been revealed.

The ARM laptop is expected to be thin and light-weight and to also have long battery life as well as LTE connectivity along with stylus support. With respect to price, it is speculated that the one from Microsoft and Qualcomm will not be low priced. However, those from other manufacturers such as Lenovo, HP, and ASUS may be more affordable and it will be interesting to see Xiaomi also release its own version of the Qualcomm/Microsoft innovation.

The late autumn release seems to have displeased Qualcomm (to put it mildly), but that may well be something that they will have to get used to based on Microsoft's tragic marketing practices over the last decade.

The above stated, the development brings forward the realisation that cross platform computing is at last opening up to the IT user base. That development will without doubt bring forward both casual and eventually high end gaming on a single device at a much lower cost if Microsoft can get the marketing right on this occasion, (a big if many feel based on past experience).

Bill
 
Maybe I am missing something but why do you say Intel has a lock on Windows 10? Doesn't AMD have a presence too? Especially with the new Ryzen processors.
Mick
 
A bit of history (or what goes around, comes around). Windows CE ran on ARM processors some 18-20 years ago. I owned an ARM powered LG Phenom handheld, which was a brilliant little machine very similar to the more popular Psion handheld of the time. The HP Jornada handheld was another popular Windows CE machine likewise power by the ARM processor.

The StrongARM CPU's used in the LG/HP handhelds were developed by DEC using an ARM RISC instruction set which were sold to Intel in 1997 who continued manufacturing them into the early 2000's when they were replaced by Xscale. The Qualcomm's Snapdragon ARM processor CPU likewise uses an ARM RISC instruction, also probably under licence from ARM Holdings. The ARM (Acorn (later Advanced) RISC Machine) architecture (32 bit) was developed during the 80's, as was the 8086 (32 bit) achitecture and has been used in endless application including nVidia GPU's. Peter
 
Hi again Mick, Wilts and everybody.
Mick, I agree that I should have mentioned AMD in regard to the Windows platform development as you stated in your posting at #3 of this thread. However, the importance of Qualcomm becoming involved in Windows development cannot in the opinion of many be underestimated. Qualcomms ARM based processers along with others has played a leading part in the rapid development of mobile platform devices over recent years and in that have brought forward the superb high end mobile phones and tablets produced by the likes of Samsung, LG, Levono, Sony and Huawei etc we have today.

ARM Holdings are now supporting Qualcomm in their link up with Microsoft as it is viewed as bringing a whole new sales platform to both organisations and at the same time inject fresh technology into the somewhat moribund Windows platform so long dominated by Intel and AMD. For developer's, the Qualcomm/ARM move brings the prospect of applications having a much wider market as apps will be easily made "cross platform" to run on Android, Windows and in all probability Apple IOS and Mac.

For Windows platform users it brings the prospect of the over two and a half million Android play store apps becoming available to them together with six hundred thousand apps already available in the Microsoft store. Google are giving their full support to the ARM based developments with Apple somewhat "sitting on the fence" which is their usual stance in recent years since the loss of Steve Jobs.

Obviously, for Windows platform high end gamers there will be a huge amount of development still to be overcome before the above changes are brought to their benefit. However, such change is now "well over the horizon" and with Qualcomms rapid advance of "on chip solutions" over recent years, new technology for high end gamers may well be brought forward much sooner than many believe.

Bill
 
Last edited:
Hi everybody.
Might want to read this...
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/06/09/intel_sends_arm_a_shot_across_bow/

Nothing is ever as simple as it might seem and i doubt Intel are sitting there doing nothing ;o)

edit:
And it's only 32 bit, bit of a retrograde step.
Malc, I believe if you read further in regard to the threats of legal action from Intel toward Qualcomm and Microsoft you will see that those threats have been ongoing for more than a year now. However, at this point in time no actual action has been forthcoming despite the ongoing development of ARM/Qualcomm in the Windows platform.

Several Months ago Microsoft seem to “deliberately goed” Intel by advising that their cooperative tripartite development with ARM and Qualcomm was indeed “threading close to Intel's toes” but in the interests of Windows platform users that development would continue. The statement without doubt did seem to infer that in Microsoft's view Intel and to a lesser extent AMD had not performed in recent times with the best interests of the Windows platform at their core.

The above statement(s) have given further ammunition to the growing numbers who claim that the Windows platform has been “moribund” over a considerable number of years. Those same critics point further to claim that only minor changes have been brought forward to the basic PC hardware system that has seen little or no large scale development since its original innovation.

In the above, comparisons are being drawn between Windows platform development and that of the mobile platform(s) to which ongoing radical innovation in chip and processor development has brought forward in today's terms a multi billion user platform from a concept that did not even exist prior to 2008.

High end gamers are the last group in IT that have no alternative but to sit over high cost heat producing and power consuming desktop systems to engage in their enjoyment. Surly any innovation or organization that can bring that situation to a close deserves support Especially on a forum such as this.

Bill
 
High end gamers are the last group in IT that have no alternative but to sit over high cost heat producing and power consuming desktop systems to engage in their enjoyment. Surly any innovation or organization that can bring that situation to a close deserves support Especially on a forum such as this.

Or anyone who actually requires high compute performance to get a days work done which you may find is reasonably common. You're pushing the perfect idea that doesn't exist, bleeding edge performance, low cost, and low power consumption. Pick two.

ARM based technologies at their core are targeted to efficiency, and that's true given the plethora of devices utilising ARM based SOC's for the sake of battery life. The performance just is not there though in the typical ARM power envelope of only a handful of watts. Don't make this about company agendas as usual, consider what's possible with available technology. High end gaming is just one instance where x86 is the only available platform to deliver the performance required for the experience. Let alone the many work based use cases, such as computational fluid dynamics and computer aided design just to name a couple.

Jack
 
Just a comment Windows has been running on AMD processors for some time now. It is not a requirement to run an Intel processor and I don't think it ever has been.

Note that although some instructions are the same not all instructions are the same and Windows 10 makes use of instructions that are not part of the x86 core set.

Cheerio John
 
Hi everybody.
Anyone who actually requires high compute performance to get a days work done which you may find is reasonably common. You're pushing the perfect idea that doesn't exist, bleeding edge performance, low cost, and low power consumption. Pick two.
ARM based technologies at their core are targeted to efficiency, and that's true given the plethora of devices utilising ARM based SOC's for the sake of battery life. The performance just is not there though in the typical ARM power envelope of only a handful of watts. Don't make this about company agendas as usual, consider what's possible with available technology. High end gaming is just one instance where x86 is the only available platform to deliver the performance required for the experience. Let alone the many work based use cases, such as computational fluid dynamics and computer aided design just to name a couple.

Jack
Jack, thank you for your above posting in response to my own at #7 of this thread. In that posting you state “i am pushing the perfect idea that does not exist” and in that statement i can agree with you. However, Microsoft's new “tie-up” with Qualcomm has been brought into being by the need to bring forward new technological innovation to the PC environment and the Windows platform.

In the above, Microsoft has chosen Qualcomm in preference to their long standing alliance with Intel and AMD for such advance as Qualcomm has been in the forefront of such technological progress in the mobile environment. At the present time all flagship devices being brought to the market on the Android platform (90% of the mobile market) have the Qualcomm 835 processor at its core.

The above devices have made it possible for any person to now carry out almost all tasks on mobile many of which it was believed would always be outside mobile capability only two years ago and that progress is still rapidly continuing.

When Satya Nadelia took control of Microsoft as CEO in 2014 he inherited what many would argue was a corporation that was stagnant, inward looking and not even turning a trading profit when evaluated on a month by month basis. Nadella has now turned that situation around but he recognises that the Windows platform if it is to remain in the mainstream requires the same creative innovation that has so rapidly placed a near PC in everyone's pocket in the last few years.

In the above, Satya Nadelia’s brand of leadership has brought fresh thinking and belief into the Redmond HQ with the post Bill Gates “think and plan inside the box” attitude now gone out the window (please excuse the pun). In that Qualcomm has been brought on board to rethink PC hardware and make happen what at present cannot happen by way of their system on chip approach (SOCs), and in that I am sure all would wish them success.

In conclusion, here is a presentation by Qualcomm CEO Steve Mollenkopf to the CEF conference earlier this year regarding SOC/G5 development. It very much puts me in mind of Bill Gates presentations in the 90s

Video starts here:- https://youtu.be/QvnaBT79gn0 #
BIll

 
Last edited:
Back
Top