Would we ever go back from TANE's CM to T12's CM, just wondering?

I

ish6

Since 2001
Hello Tony, N3V, etc .... Community!

I wonder if TANE would can ever have a switch button for CM, in which it would take it back similar to T12 CM!

To be honest, I just can't get around TANE CM!:(

Yes... Yes.. Yes .... I understand the differences between the two; However, the old fashion CM is just easier to navigate through!

Kind regards
Ish
 
Whilst we are very unlikely to get the old CM back as such (licensing etc), I'm not sure if parts of the design can be used.

Shane
 
As previously said at least twice by N3V No because of licensing. Anyway as TANE is multi platform it needs to work in OSX as well as Windows. The old CM was a separate 32 bit Windows program, new one is in the main TANE executable. I actually prefer TANE's as you can do far more with it even if it's made it harder for idiots to mess with and break things.
 
Ish you need to get used to the new one. Use it for awhile then go back to TS12. I felt the same away at first, but after using T:ANE exclusively, I've gotten quite comfortable with the new Content Manager. You can do all the same things with the added feature of separate windows, which means you can have multiple filters running at the same time like Open for Edit in one window, and Today in another. The ability to actually have a list of dependencies, and not have to go through the extra step of viewing in main list, as well as easily copying and pasting information is so much nicer. The fact that it's so much faster too is truly great.

I recently journeyed back to TS12 CM to get some old assets, and I found it to be clumsy since the view is only one filter at a time, and also quite slow as well compared to the new T:ANE CM.
 
shaneturner12 said:
Whilst we are very unlikely to get the old CM back as such (licensing etc), I'm not sure if parts of the design can be used.

Shane
Click to expand...

Hello Shane,

Don't really get what you mean by "Licensing", Shane, since all this is owned by N3V!

Maybe not how TANE handle's things now, but in the future if things under TANE's hood changes, who knows!

What I know, Shane, CM is not really fit for content creators, and I think this is an area that N3V really needs to focus on down the road!

Take Care
Ish
 
Not all of it for TS12's CM was fully owned by N3V. They licensed parts of it from other companies from memory.

I know that more work needs to be done on CM (like the download system) but it's also going to be a case of learning the system as well I think...

Shane
 
shaneturner12 said:
Not all of it for TS12's CM was fully owned by N3V. They licensed parts of it from other companies from memory.
Click to expand...

No, it's ours. Perhaps you're thinking of the fact that it was written against the MFC APIs- this is true and is certainly one reason that we never persisted the UI, but it's only a small part- the bigger part being that it was a design-by-committee job that never lived up to what we actually needed from a content management tool.

The T:ANE content management tools are superior pretty much across the board. There are two specific areas that I will note are still lacking:

1. Thumbnails view. It's not something that we use internally, and I suspect that most of our testers don't use it either, so it doesn't get a lot of development love. We know that it's not as good as it could be.

2. We don't yet have a CCP replacement. That one was even worse than the old CM, and again it's something that we never used internally, but we're aware that we need something like this to get inexperienced creators moving in the right direction.


There are also a few areas where I'd argue that we're not really any worse off than TS12, but that we'd ideally like to move forward from anyway, such as:

* CDP files are limited in size. This limits their ease-of-use as an export/backup mechanism for a given set of content, since you have to make sure that you stay below the size limits.
* Tighter integration with the web DLS would be nice.
* Being able to download and manage payware directly from within CM.

that's my 2c anyway..

chris
 
clam1952 said:
As previously said at least twice by N3V No because of licensing. Anyway as TANE is multi platform it needs to work in OSX as well as Windows. The old CM was a separate 32 bit Windows program, new one is in the main TANE executable. I actually prefer TANE's as you can do far more with it even if it's made it harder for idiots to mess with and break things.
Click to expand...

Hello Malc, sir

With a new born baby girl I can scan the forum, so I missed that post, sir!

However, I completely understand your points here!

Take care
Ish

JCitron said:
Ish you need to get used to the new one. Use it for awhile then go back to TS12. I felt the same away at first, but after using T:ANE exclusively, I've gotten quite comfortable with the new Content Manager. You can do all the same things with the added feature of separate windows, which means you can have multiple filters running at the same time like Open for Edit in one window, and Today in another. The ability to actually have a list of dependencies, and not have to go through the extra step of viewing in main list, as well as easily copying and pasting information is so much nicer. The fact that it's so much faster too is truly great.

I recently journeyed back to TS12 CM to get some old assets, and I found it to be clumsy since the view is only one filter at a time, and also quite slow as well compared to the new T:ANE CM.
Click to expand...

Hello John,

Like I said to Malc above, sir, I understand all of these points, but for me, T12-CM is kind of more flashy, and better to read, where as I just can't deal with CM -- I can't really think of how to describe my views on it, and maybe other creators that might feel the same might pour their insight to make a clearer point!

For me TANE is the best ever for route, especially huge routs, but again, from a CC point of view I think it's a step backwards!

Take care, and hope your eyesight is very healthy by now!
Ish

shaneturner12 said:
Not all of it for TS12's CM was fully owned by N3V. They licensed parts of it from other companies from memory.

I know that more work needs to be done on CM (like the download system) but it's also going to be a case of learning the system as well I think...

Shane
Click to expand...

Hi Shane,

Among my concerns started above, I can't pas by the font, the copy/paste, and when you paste into a box search the words goes beneath --- I know these issues N3V are aware, by I'm just saying.... it's among my dislikes!

Thanks for point out the license issue --- Like I told Malc, I missed that point!

My 2 cents ---

There have to be a better version / feature to make it easier for CC's to import contents into TANE which should require less steps which are now -- Maybe a new CM feature embedded into CM, in which CC can import items such meshes, a preview window, etc .. like a bare-bone CM for only CC!

Take Care

Ish
 
ish6 said:
Hello Shane,

Don't really get what you mean by "Licensing", Shane, since all this is owned by N3V!

Maybe not how TANE handle's things now, but in the future if things under TANE's hood changes, who knows!

What I know, Shane, CM is not really fit for content creators, and I think this is an area that N3V really needs to focus on down the road!

Take Care
Ish
Click to expand...

Edit: as Chris has put us right but leaving the licence issue explanation
Created with code licensed from another software company, as in you buy a licence to use it or at least get permission, often you will see in the about dialogue for software something like portions of code licensed from xxx company.

I dispute that the new CM is not suitable for Content makers, I use it with no problems whatsoever and I never even read the manual either.

Learn how to use it and move on ;o)
 
Last edited:
WindWalkr said:
No, it's ours. Perhaps you're thinking of the fact that it was written against the MFC APIs- this is true and is certainly one reason that we never persisted the UI, but it's only a small part- the bigger part being that it was a design-by-committee job that never lived up to what we actually needed from a content management tool.

The T:ANE content management tools are superior pretty much across the board. There are two specific areas that I will note are still lacking:

1. Thumbnails view. It's not something that we use internally, and I suspect that most of our testers don't use it either, so it doesn't get a lot of development love. We know that it's not as good as it could be.

2. We don't yet have a CCP replacement. That one was even worse than the old CM, and again it's something that we never used internally, but we're aware that we need something like this to get inexperienced creators moving in the right direction.


There are also a few areas where I'd argue that we're not really any worse off than TS12, but that we'd ideally like to move forward from anyway, such as:

* CDP files are limited in size. This limits their ease-of-use as an export/backup mechanism for a given set of content, since you have to make sure that you stay below the size limits.
* Tighter integration with the web DLS would be nice.
* Being able to download and manage payware directly from within CM.

that's my 2c anyway..

chris
Click to expand...


Hello Chris,

Thanks you, sir, for pouring in your 2 cents --- It's refreshing to read and know that n3v are aware of such drawbacks, and I think that's all we ask for, a voice! :)

Take care!

Ish
 
WindWalkr said:
No, it's ours. Perhaps you're thinking of the fact that it was written against the MFC APIs- this is true and is certainly one reason that we never persisted the UI, but it's only a small part- the bigger part being that it was a design-by-committee job that never lived up to what we actually needed from a content management tool.

The T:ANE content management tools are superior pretty much across the board. There are two specific areas that I will note are still lacking:

1. Thumbnails view. It's not something that we use internally, and I suspect that most of our testers don't use it either, so it doesn't get a lot of development love. We know that it's not as good as it could be.

2. We don't yet have a CCP replacement. That one was even worse than the old CM, and again it's something that we never used internally, but we're aware that we need something like this to get inexperienced creators moving in the right direction.


There are also a few areas where I'd argue that we're not really any worse off than TS12, but that we'd ideally like to move forward from anyway, such as:

* CDP files are limited in size. This limits their ease-of-use as an export/backup mechanism for a given set of content, since you have to make sure that you stay below the size limits.
* Tighter integration with the web DLS would be nice.
* Being able to download and manage payware directly from within CM.

that's my 2c anyway..

chris
Click to expand...

That's probably what I was thinking of - thank you for the additional information Chris (and I look forward to seeing what the future holds as well).

Shane
 
clam1952 said:
I dispute that the new CM is not suitable for Content makers, I use it with no problems whatsoever and I never even read the manual either.

Learn how to use it and move on ;o)
Click to expand...

I have tried, but no joy -- It just won't work out! :(

The only thing I can use it for is to download, and even then I have issues there -- not sure what version of an item to download sometimes! Etc!

Also, sometime filters just disappears, etc ...(well, at least it happened ONLY once, to be honest) I mean, I can go on, Malc, but it's not about how CM functions as it now, but ... this is about given content makers a suitable solution, sir ...

Take Care
Ish
 
Ish, you could create content in AssetX then import it to TANE, AssetX will create the config for you if you fill in the blanks, I'm guessing that's your main problem?

Or easy way to create a new asset in TANE and what I nearly always do

Find one of my assets of a similar kind
Clone it, on the Window that opens that says success or something like that, highlight the kuid, right click, show in new window
In the new Window right click open for edit in explorer.
Remove the original assets bits apart from the config.txt
Add the new assets bits.
Edit the config to reflect the new item.
Then submit it.
Leave the Window open and it will still be open after you have tested it in game or Preview, which is handy for when you need to do some editing and such.

I'll admit the create New asset function isn't helpful it just provides a blank config with the kuid but I never used it in TS12 anyway. Cloning and editing is a lot easier.

Loosing your filters? copy your assets.tdx somewhere safe, in the event you loose them, copy assets.tdx back then run an extended database repair and your filters will return. Need to do the DDBR because you have probably added and deleted stuff since you saved the assets.tdx.
 
clam1952 said:
Ish, you could create content in AssetX then import it to TANE, AssetX will create the config for you if you fill in the blanks, I'm guessing that's your main problem?

Or easy way to create a new asset in TANE and what I nearly always do

Find one of my assets of a similar kind
Clone it, on the Window that opens that says success or something like that, highlight the kuid, right click, show in new window
In the new Window right click open for edit in explorer.
Remove the original assets bits apart from the config.txt
Add the new assets bits.
Edit the config to reflect the new item.
Then submit it.
Leave the Window open and it will still be open after you have tested it in game or Preview, which is handy for when you need to do some editing and such.

I'll admit the create New asset function isn't helpful it just provides a blank config with the kuid but I never used it in TS12 anyway. Cloning and editing is a lot easier.

Loosing your filters? copy your assets.tdx somewhere safe, in the event you loose them, copy assets.tdx back then run an extended database repair and your filters will return. Need to do the DDBR because you have probably added and deleted stuff since you saved the assets.tdx.
Click to expand...

Hello Malc,
Noted, and thank you for your post!

I really don't have any issues with TANE, in-game, or CM, sir -- I just lost two filters once, and it hasn't happened again --- I've been lucky that I installed SP1 a while back, and no problems there, and then SP2 when it came out, and no problems there too ---

But getting back to CC and CM ... your steps above, sir, if those steps, implemented into a new feature in trainz to help CC maker work with their contents would go a lot further into creating and making contents for TANE more stable --- Now we have to deal with the FBX, which will be a learning curve for the novice. etc! Now, if TANE had a feature (window) that opens, like gmax / 3dmax, where we can just drop a mesh, and work from there that would be so innovative on so many levels! -- Just saying! :wave:

Ish
 
I have become used to TANE CM but I still find it very messy to have to read missing dependancies, faulty dependancies, available to download etc, surely these items are far easier to read as symbols. The pale colour of the available to download line still needs fixing. I've had a cataract removed and now have to wear reading glasses but I still find this too pale.
There are advantages with the new version, namely multiple screens but generally I am more comfortable with the old version.

Ken
 
The new CM is much more functional and convenient. If something is missing, it's the icons - built-in, on the DLS, locally modified, etc.

It seems to me that adding icons is not difficult, but it takes time. Probably now there are more important goals for implementation. Hopefully the time will come and we'll see a beautiful Content manager
 
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I think TANE's content manager is okay and although there's a lot of room for improvement, its does the basics well. It is certainly less jittery than TS12's.

However, I really miss CCP. I know it had it's issues and was very loose, but I really liked how it visualized and put the config.txt together and that you could copy and paste within it and it validated in-situ. In fact, I felt it had a lot of potential to be the perfect tool for getting any asset into the game without having to read the CCG and study examples. If only when you selected containers it laid out the tags that were mandatory and was kept up-to-date with changes, I'd use it every time.
 
I think for sure there is no going back. I find the TANE CM far more stable and powerful than TS12's CM, but as most have pointed out it needs some work. Here are the points I agree with and think should be addressed as some kind of update or hotfix... "Please, Pretty Please with Sugar on it."


ish6 said:
I understand the differences between the two; However, the old fashion CM is just easier to navigate through!
Click to expand...

WindWalkr said:
* CDP files are limited in size. This limits their ease-of-use as an export/backup mechanism for a given set of content, since you have to make sure that you stay below the size limits.
* Tighter integration with the web DLS would be nice.
* Being able to download and manage payware directly from within CM.
Click to expand...

ish6 said:
I can't pas by the font, the copy/paste, and when you paste into a box search the words goes beneath
Click to expand...

KenGreen said:
I have become used to TANE CM but I still find it very messy to have to read missing dependancies, faulty dependancies, available to download etc, surely these items are far easier to read as symbols. The pale colour of the available to download line still needs fixing.
Click to expand...

OlegKhim said:
The new CM is much more functional and convenient. If something is missing, it's the icons - built-in, on the DLS, locally modified, etc.
Click to expand...

jjqburch said:
I think TANE's content manager is okay and although there's a lot of room for improvement, its does the basics well. It is certainly less jittery than TS12's.
Click to expand...

Thank you Team!
 
Hi Everyone,

Here's a perfect example -- Imagine something similar to this being embedded into TANE as a feature!

Those for those old timers like myself, remember Paintshed? Remember how it instantly created Loco's / Rolling Stock's -- Granted, it was a basic cheap way in creating contents, but it was a starting point ... But something like this is what I have in mind as a feature, and this is how it would work: We would be able to drop a folder with a mesh inside this feature, and then content would appear in a test window.... similar to Pev's Trainz Mesh Viewer! -- Additionally, this test window with the mesh installed would have a side window showing all of the configure files info, and / or any blank spaces that needs to be fit in, similar to cloning an object in CM -- And lastly, maybe this new feature could have some kind of kuids encrypted to protect contents from behind abuse!

This would go along way in supporting CC's -- We all like comfort, there's no doubt about that! :)

Take Care
Ish
 
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