Survival or revival of Appalachion Coal? How the railroads are coping...

Survival or revival of Appalachian Coal? How the railroads are coping...

Here's an interesting current-state-of-play article for the railroad historians out there...

https://apnews.com/a4a34fd2027f4533...s-fewer-as-Appalachian-railroads-keep-rolling

The fact is natural gas cost less than coal and as long as that last coal will not come back.

The coal industry has been declining for decades as their main customers, the power plants, went looking for a less expensive fuel source. Coal is not only more expensive, there's also the higher maintenance cost on the power plants as well, which plays into the equation.

It doesn't help that even the export market for coal is very limited due to countries such as China and India are also using alternative energy sources such as natural gas, solar, and wind.

John MET coal has made a temporary come back as it would seem China has slowed down coal production. CONSOL energy seems to have ordered a large number of trains, of which most past through central PA on their way to Baltimore. In a meeting last week, we discussed how the RJ Corman PA lines are nearly unable to keep up with the current demand for coal. It is true that steam coal for power plants is dead but the steel market seems to be on quite the upswing over the last 6 months!

Coal will only be used when it is cheaper than what has replaced it.

Hi everybody.
Coal will continue to be used in the steelmaking industry were coking coal is often the sole compatible fuel at present. However, the cost of transportation and handling of coal is far higher than gas or oil and therefore make the fuel uncompetitive in terms of operational cost.

The above stated, there has over the last decade developed a growing awareness of the health hazards of workplace long term exposure to coal by way of Coal Workers pneumoconiosis (CWP) otherwise known as “ Coal Workers Black Lung” or just as Black Lung.

The foregoing it was believed for many years only affected those working in deep mine collieries. However, in recent years research has shown that workers in daily contact with the fuel in such places as power stations, steel production and associated coking plants are also very susceptible to the above disease.

Along with the above, it is now believed that many railway workers employed on Steam locomotives were also susceptible to CWP throughout the rail steam era, and in that many may well have succumbed to premature death by way of respiratory sickness in the years following the termination of that employment. In the foregoing, comprehensive research has been difficult in regard to the railwaymen as many thousands were made redundant in the decade of the Beeching cuts and with that the end of the steam era here in the UK.

Almost all of the above rail workers went on to gain employment in other industries and therefore comprehensive industrial disease figure's are difficult to compile. However, the limited research that has been carried out does demonstrate that respiratory problems affected many former rail footplate crew workers in their later lives.

Evidence to the above can be found here in the UK in the recent court(s) upholding of claims by former power station employees in regard to incurring CWP by way of their employment. There is also a claim at present in its preliminary court stages where the daughter of a former steam locomotive fireman is bringing forward a case against the UK government based on the claim that the death of her father by way of CWP disadvantaged her. The claimant sights such matters as her having to leave her education early to provide a living and that the foregoing has placed her at a disadvantage throughout her working life.

The above without doubt will mean that the use of coal will be eliminated in developed countries as quickly as alternate fuels can be brought into use.

Bill

Mountaintop mining all but eliminates the dangers of underground mining as well as CWP. Modern regulations requiring land reclamation create not only more usable land for farming, industry, and wildlife are given untouched areas to so they can return and reestablish. Roads are straighter and safer, and heck, there are even rail lines available!

We are making America great again!

Hi everybody.

backyard said:

Mountaintop mining all but eliminates the dangers of underground mining as well as CWP. Modern regulations requiring land reclamation create not only more usable land for farming, industry, and wildlife are given untouched areas to so they can return and reestablish. Roads are straighter and safer, and heck, there are even rail lines available!

We are making America great again!

Click to expand...

Backyard, Coal Workers pneumoconiosis (CWP) otherwise known as “ Coal Workers Black Lung” or just as Black Lung is now known to affect workers involved in open cast coal mining. The state government of Queensland Australia has recently confirmed a coal worker who has only ever been employed on an open cast site has developed the disease.

Full details of the case and the confirmation of the diagnosis following a scan sent to consultants in the United States can be viewed by following this link:- http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-...as-now-spread-to-open-cut-mine-worker/7921702

There has now been sixteen confirmed cases of CWP among underground and open cast coal mining employees in Queensland which is very disturbing given that the disease normally takes many years to develop. Therefore, it is more than probable that a large number of further cases may present to medical practitioners into the future.

Bill

The article was interesting, but it read more as a financial report than a thought piece. So here's a few of my own thoughts on the subject matter:

As much as it might have to do with regulation and climate change, it still has more to do with where the market for coal is on the globe.

East Coast USA doesn't support the old coal industries anymore, because those markets are gone. The Europeans don't need our coal as much as they used to. Other international mineral agencies have now begun tapping Africa's coal seams, using conveyors, barges, and a super carrier offshore. These new international mineral companies are probably making a big dent in US coal industries ability to increase exports from the eastern US coastline.

On the West Coast USA, there is still a big market for coal. Almost every major seaport has a coal stockpile awaiting shipment oversea. You can find them on google earth, they are quite large. Why are they on the West Coast? Because its headed to China. And mining it in Utah, then shipping it from Richmond(CA), is more profitable than mining it in Kentucky and trying to get it to Asia from the Chesapeake Bay. Thats also why the US government just slashed a bunch of protections on federal land, namely the four corners area. Any of you narrow gauge fans remember whats up there in those hills?

Perhaps a more tangible example are the coal mines located in the Canadian Rockies, which feed the coal export facilities at Port Prince Rupert and the Port of Vancouver. That makes for a very short trip if the coal is going to Asia or Siberia.

EDIT- I've removed my remarks regarding black lung. I think what Bill had to say about it covers the bases pretty well, so I'll just stick to one argument at a time.

I enjoyed the article very much, it was very professional. Thanks for sharing! Its been a fun topic to mull over this week.

Hi Bob, I'm sorry but I completely disagree. NS is still taking BNSF run through coal from Powder River along with the Mon Line coal trains, I had a recent trip to Virginia in which I saw a surprising amount of coal being moved. All these mentioned trains, plus my CONSOL and RJ Corman statement above either go to Baltimore or Norfolk to export. The coal business is alive an well in Eastern US... Just not for domestic use.

Hi everybody.
Bob, many thanks for your posting at #9 of this thread. For those of us here in Europe your posting gave a great insight into the mining, use and export of coal that was certainly unknown to me and I expect many this side of the pond. That stated, could you post further in what you feel is the American people's attitude to the continued use of coal with all the environmental and health hazards that the fuel brings forward.

In the above the attitude towards coal here in Britain is one of it being a fuel of the past. On an average day here in the UK over 50% of power requirements are generated by way of renuables be that a mixture of wind, tide and solar generation. In the third quarter of 2016 the UK for six days achieved a figure of over 75% of its power needs being fed from renuables. In that week for six hours on one day Britain ran on 100% sustainable energy by way of solar, wind and tidal.

The above has not come about without much aurgument and public investment over many years, but after all that at last the results are there for all to see and benefit from. Renewable energy is now being produced at lower cost than its carbon sourced equivalent which looks well for the future.

I realise the UK cannot be compared to the US in terms of energy requirements and distribution. That stated, and leaving railroads to one side at this point, is there not a general feeling among the American people that it is time to move forward from such fuel's as coal with all its problems and on to fuels that are cleaner and more sustainable.

Bill

wholbr read this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/energy-trends-section-6-renewables

Rob.

Robd
Read this.
http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ne...arbon-energy-alone-for-almost-six-days/15/11/
With every respect, you obviously do not have "the capacity" to be able to follow any thread ( judge by all your previous postings) except in a very negative way.

Again with every respect, I genuinualy feel and believe that you need professional help.
Bill

wholbr said:

Robd
Read this.
http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ne...arbon-energy-alone-for-almost-six-days/15/11/
With every respect, you obviously do not have "the capacity" to be able to follow any thread ( judge by all your previous postings) except in a very negative way.

Again with every respect, I genuinualy feel and believe that you need professional help.
Bill

Click to expand...

I'm afraid what you've linked to there refers to a 'snapshot' of the period between July and September for one particular year. Britain relies on nuclear energy, which is non renewable, and imported energy be it gas or electricity, to sustain its energy needs.

Green energy i.e. 'renewable' energy does contribute a little, but not near enough for the UK to be self sufficient in energy.

I will ignore your more derogatory remarks and put them down to sour grapes!

Rob.

robd said:

I'm afraid what you've linked to there refers to a 'snapshot' of the period between July and September for one particular year. Britain relies on nuclear energy, which is non renewable, and imported energy be it gas or electricity, to sustain its energy needs.

Green energy i.e. 'renewable' energy does contribute a little, but not near enough for the UK to be self sufficient in energy.

I will ignore your more derogatory remarks and put them down to sour grapes!

Rob.

Click to expand...

The report I referred to in my posting at #13 of this thread refers to trends in the power industry as it states, which again you do not seem to have "the capacity" to follow. There is a difference between what is a trend and historically what has is happening in the past and even what is the present position.

The move is towards sustainable in a large way and may that continue.
Bill

Bill

I can't speak for all Americans on this, nor should I. Any American could probably give you a diatribe on the situation here, but it wouldn't amount to much more than their own opinion and maybe some jaded idea of what their co-worker thinks.

I really can't add anything about black lung that you hadn't mentioned. Industrial illness and accidents do not get as much media attention as violent crime. That probably plays a role in how much it gets talked about and voted on. Politicians hire people to find out what you like to talk about, and how you feel about certain issues, so that when they come to your town, they can give you all the right answers. All of this might seem conspiratorial, but its more likely the result of laziness and ambivalence.

Maybe a good note to leave this on, that might help point out just how unusual things have gotten, is that the Port of Richmond is in the San Francisco Bay. So, there is literally a coal pyramid sitting in what people generally tease as the liberal hub of the nation. On a certain level, its actually kind of hilarious.

PBY- You've got a point, and the article substantiates your claim. But I'm not sure how the Powder River Basin is going to help keep Appalachian coal mines in business, other than keeping the track to their markets paid for and maintained.

robd said:

wholbr read this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/energy-trends-section-6-renewables

Rob.

Click to expand...

Thread is about Appalachian Coal; I am in Australia, and I have been wondering about Powder River coal shipments.
I have found this thread quite interesting and a number of my reflections have been answered.

Lot of arguments going on about Adani Coal in North Queensland at the moment, and Queensland Govt offering loans to Adani to build railway line to port, etc, etc, and then India getting cold feet.

Some politicians talk about a Clean Energy Finance Corporation and financing "clean coal" projects.

Lot of arguments going in circles, in Australia, at the moment, and Queensland government suspected of offering "bribes" to build, operate and export Queensland coal.