Question for the PC guys out there

Hello, I'm running TANE build 84473, and I have been having a hard time with low FPS, and worst of all, stutter. It doesn't seem to matter what my settings are, I just can't get rid of the stutter. My rig has an AMD FX-8320 CPU, 16 GB DDR3, and a Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 GPU. I'm running on an Asus monitor, 1920x1080. I've tried every setting I can think of, turned on and off the vsync, and nothing seems to help. My question is, what is my bottleneck? I think it's my CPU, but I wanted to get some opinions from others in the community. When I run MSI Afterburner, it shows my GPU usage constantly at 98-100% while in game, and CPU1 showing the same amount of usage. If anyone can give me any info or advice, I would greatly appreciate it!

Cheers,
Cody

Are there any programs running in the background? Also, can you post your settings? Is Trainz on a standard hard disk drive or a solid state drive?

Matt

outlaw77 said:

Hello, I'm running TANE build 84473, and I have been having a hard time with low FPS, and worst of all, stutter.

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What do you define as ' low FPS'? Stutter is most likely caused by slow disk access. That would also be consistent with the changed settings not having any effect.

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I tell everyone that working offline, by either disconnecting your Ethernet cable, turning off your wireless, or temporarily disabling your Network Connection (easily fixed by Netwiork and Sharing Center - Troubleshoot) ... or using Task manager (Ctrl Alt Del) and turning off Java Update, and any other un-needed program, cleaner update program, or antivirus ... This keeps all the intrusions from getting inside your PC, and cuts down on processes that are pinging your PC many times per second ... it really works

Restarting your PC restarts the turned off process's

Another thing to remember is to download a good disk defragmenter, such as Auslogics. I have often found that my hard drive contains anywhere from 10,000 to as high as 50,000 fragmented files after having downloaded routes and/or new payware. Yes, as high as 50,000 fragmented files! This is not surprising when you think about how many small files make up each asset...

Since Trainz has to cache assets, it has to pull all of these little fragmented files into the program, while you are driving the route. This can easily result in significant system stutter and poor performance.

Auslogics provides for defragmenting and file optimization, which is a good way to arrange files on disk. You will definitely see improvement in your system's performance if you take this simple step.

One more tip: before you defragment your hard drive, first right-click on the C: drive and select Disk Cleanup. Clear browser caches and history as well. I also go into the AppData folder and clear out Temp folders, and also empty the Windows\Temp folder.

Thanks for the information!

cressjl said:

I have often found that my hard drive contains anywhere from 10,000 to as high as 50,000 fragmented files after having downloaded routes and/or new payware. Yes, as high as 50,000 fragmented files! This is not surprising when you think about how many small files make up each asset...

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Small files can't be fragmented - they have to be larger than the allocation unit to be fragmented. The smaller the file the more likely it is that the file system can find a place to store it that does not cause fragmentation. It's large files that cause fragmentation problems. If you are seeing that problem with downloaded assets then it is because you have not consolidated free space before doing the download - you need to get a better disk defragger. If you only defrag after the problem occurs, then it will come back.

cressjl said:

Since Trainz has to cache assets, it has to pull all of these little fragmented files into the program, while you are driving the route. This can easily result in significant system stutter and poor performance.

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No. That retrieval occurs when the asset is committed. When you are driving the route the program is getting the data from the database files, which are a small number of very large files. They might be subject to fragmentation (like any large file might be) but because the accesses are not sequential, fragmentation actually has little effect on speed.

Your setup should be able to eat Trainz and more however while all the solutions offered are credible what have you done to your setup recently which may have resulted in loading the GPU to the max and the low fps you are experiencing. Starting with Windows which has been updating itself with or without your knowledge and could the 1070 be a recent addition with all its associated utilities and drivers. If that is the case is the PSU and any changes to the cabling up to the job and have you tried re-seating the 1070 and re-making each power connection. nVidia have released some very questionable driver in this past year so have you tried installing the latest or rolling back to the previous.

The GPU supports everything which is on the screen whether you can see it or not so its worth removing as many icons, widgets etc. as you can live without. As others have said run Trainz as a stand alone from a fresh boot but if you do use the machine for a variety of things consider creating a separate user account just for Trainz. Widows 10 enables practically everything by default more so the Creative Edition the roll out or which started yesterday. Go into setting and take each setting in turn and then go through each option and with the exception of anti-virus and firewall disable practically everything all of which uses CPU and memory assets, do little if anything to support Trainz and don't generally show in Task Manager.

I'm not sure what your interests in Trainz is but try running one of the smaller routes which comes pre-installed with Trainz as your benchmark to measure fps. rather than something you have created yourself and is evolving. Peter

To the OP what hard drive are you using? as in make and model.

If you think your system has a bottleneck try this http://thebottlenecker.com/bottleneck-calculator/

Outlaw77/Cody - Check that your Asus monitor is being driven at its default refresh rate and that T:ANE's performance settings match that refresh rate. Your GTX 1070 should run T:ANE at high frame rates with moderate to high detail settings, even with the modest performance (these days) of the aging AMD FX 8320.
With that GPU, I'd suggest that you run T:ANE with Vertical Sync set to 'Off'.
What operating system are you running on your rig?
Have you checked your mobo BIOS to ensure that you have set up the FX 8320 for maximum multi-threaded performance? (i.e SMT vs Intel's Hyperthreading)
Recommend perform some simple tests with a single baseboard test-track and known low-performance-impact assets/ scenery whilst you evaluate the impact of various settings changes, including turning shadows on, off, High, Ultra, etc. and draw distances from 3500m to 15000m, etc. With V-sync OFF you should be getting triple-digit frame rates in T:ANE on such simple boards.
Make sure you have the latest available drivers for your 1070 and OS combo. (For example, I'm running my GTX 1070 on the Windows 10 Creators Edition 64 bit, so the appropriate NVidia Driver is 381.65).
Do the same for your audio drivers, as they can severely impact game performance and latencies.

SailorDan said:

Small files can't be fragmented - they have to be larger than the allocation unit to be fragmented...

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"Small" is a relative term and, of course, they would have to be larger than a single cluster to be fragmented. Most asset files fit this definition of "small": larger than a single cluster but smaller than two or three. With downloading assets, there are a multitude of small files relative than very large ones; therefore, the create a high percentage of fragmented files on my system.

And, the fact that a database is constructed is true, but I think you will find that it is not one humongous continuous file, but a vast array of "precompiled" assets and package constructs that can be quite fragmented.

Thank you all for the input! I think I took care of my issue by way of an AMD Ryzen 7 1700, an MSI Tomahawk MoBo, and 16 GB of Ripjaws RAM. Really smoothed things out! I still have a small amount of stutter in some asset-heavy areas, but I'm pleased with the results.

Cody

outlaw77 - I'm not surprised - The Ryzen 1700 is a major improvement over your previous 8-core AMD CPU. Has true SMT at last and much higher per-core/ instructions per-clock capabilities making it a better match for your high performance graphics processor.
As you've surmised, Trainz can still always find ways to slow down any such powerful combination of processors in built-up areas with large numbers of high-poly assets or poorly scripted items.

PC_Ace said:

outlaw77 - I'm not surprised - The Ryzen 1700 is a major improvement over your previous 8-core AMD CPU. Has true SMT at last and much higher per-core/ instructions per-clock capabilities making it a better match for your high performance graphics processor.
As you've surmised, Trainz can still always find ways to slow down any such powerful combination of processors in built-up areas with large numbers of high-poly assets or poorly scripted items.

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PC, you're definitely right about the CPU. Another thing I did yesterday was add a solid-state drive and put my Trainz installation on it. I knew that it wouldn't help as far as FPS, but it got rid of 99% of the stutter (quicker file access?), I'm a very happy Trainzer right now.

Cody

Well done, Cody! I'm a huge fan of SSDs for running T:ANE too - Have SP1 HF4 on a Samsung 850 EVO and T:ANE SP2 beta on a Crucial MX-300 SSD. Both fly with little perceptible stutter anywhere.
The best thing going for your current gaming rig right now is actually the GTX 1070 - since T:ANE is so GPU-sensitive.
All the other actors, like your new, powerful CPU, faster memory and the SSD are merely supporting roles, but not - as you've found - entirely unimportant.

Thank you PC, your kind words make me feel like I'm going in the right direction!

Just a word of caution in connection with SSD's. I had two machines with SSD boot disks, both failed completely due to sudden power surges. They were both wipped clean, totally lost data. one could be re-formatted, the other was absolutely dead, a complete write off. Needless to say, I now have a UPS feeding the revitalised computers. For the comparative low cost of a UPS they are worth getting, just for peace of mind. Mine has three outlets which handles two computers and associated power boards etc.

PeterPM

narrowgauge said:

Just a word of caution in connection with SSD's. I had two machines with SSD boot disks, both failed completely due to sudden power surges. They were both wipped clean, totally lost data. one could be re-formatted, the other was absolutely dead, a complete write off. Needless to say, I now have a UPS feeding the revitalised computers. For the comparative low cost of a UPS they are worth getting, just for peace of mind. Mine has three outlets which handles two computers and associated power boards etc.

PeterPM

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A UPS is a worthwhile investment whether you have SSDs or not as they prevent the surges from taking out other components such as expensive video cards and motherboards.

SSDs are getting *more* reliable, but still are not as reliable as hard drives yet. For that reason I don't keep any data on my SSD and only use that for boot and programs. Should the drive die suddenly, I still have my data whether that be Trainz assets, or regular documents and data.

Good ideas, I also have everything backed up in two different places, just in case.