Becoming A pain

Remeber Grammas GS4'S That got taken down

I had download that C-5 before I saw this post. Here is the original one Lockheed C5A Galaxy USAF - Vulcan or Lockheed C5A Galaxy USAF Startup - Vulcan or this reskin Lockheed C-5 Galaxy USAF Travis Startup - Rob725 Will have to look at these to see what the difference if any is.

pware said:

I suspect that only Vulcan can answer that for this particular asset? Vulcan's last upload to the DLS was just over a month ago - I will PM him with a "heads up".

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I can report that the reskin of Vulcan's Galaxy C5A by Gramma is OK. Vulcan replied to my PM that reskins are permitted as long as he receives the credit for the original work - which Gramma has acknowledged in the description tag.

Wish I Could See...

I was informed that @gramma has uploaded an Amtrak reskin of my New Haven EP-5. It's TS12 so I can't view it myself, but I have no objection - all my stuff is "for any use whatever" and @gramma has added value [for some people] by updating the asset to TS12. Wish I could see it... would have been nice if @gramma had provided a new thumbnail. Screenshot, anyone? @normhart?

(The "Jets," renamed E-40, were retained by PC and painted black with the PC logo, but so far as I know, though they technically passed to Conrail before scrapping, they were rejected by Amtrak. The Williams model does look nice in Amtrak silver, though...)

pware said:

"Reskinned with permission by Vulcan". he has also added additional content (unit badges) to the thumbnail. Now the difficulty here is in answering the question "has he obtained permission this time or has he returned to his old habits with a bit more savvy about making his work appear to be different?"

Despite Gamma's recent track record (pardon the pun) we still have to go through the proper and time consuming process.

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There is no difficulty in answering that question, AT ALL. A look in the config file shows:

author "Rob Lawson - Reskin with permission from Ian Manion (Vulcan)

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"gramma" is neither Rob Lawson or Ian Manion, he is Darren Thomas Herfurth. So what Darren Thomas Herfurth has done is reskin a reskin, and what looks to you like permission granted for said reskin was actually not for him which is hardly surprising. The proper process in this case is to just issue a five-year ban on this creature until he has developed a brain.

nicky9499 said:

So what [Gramma] has done is reskin a reskin, and what looks to you like permission granted for said reskin was actually not for him which is hardly surprising.

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Vulvan's response to my PM about the reskin of his Galaxy C5A is informative.

However, in the New Aircraft thread I had posted a general permission that users could reskin my aircraft models as long as they gave credit for the originals. For any other models I required users to ask me first, so I could keep a track on model changes.

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As is the response above from PWeiser

I was informed that @gramma has uploaded an Amtrak reskin of my New Haven EP-5. It's TS12 so I can't view it myself, but I have no objection - all my stuff is "for any use whatever" and @gramma has added value [for some people] by updating the asset to TS12. Wish I could see it... would have been nice if @gramma had provided a new thumbnail

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If a creator has offered a "free to reskin" licence with the only caveat being that his name appears in the description tag, then the original creator's request has been honoured. Yes, it would have been nice if Gramma had firstly informed Vulcan or Rob Lawson of what he is doing, but that is now past.

I think that on these reskins, at least, Gramma has a free licence to do what he has done. But of course, that may not apply to everything he may do next. I think the best option, for the time being, is to keep an eye on his uploads to make sure that he is staying within the boundaries. After all, it is possible that he has learned his lesson - or am I just being an optimist, time will tell.

A 5 year ban on him uploading to the DLS, while it may be satisfying to some, will not stop his activities on other sites.

My opinion only, others are of course free to disagree - but lets have a rational discussion not an emotional one.

I Think gramma is bills friend or brother and he must be lying about his age i think Like BillVu

BillVu Fake video?

I Saw a video from billvu about the 614 He said that his 614 is real but is not true it was uploaded 2 days ago

Dcatrambone said:

I Think gramma is bills friend or brother and he must be lying about his age i think Like BillVu

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It is surprising what a little bit of digging on the Intenet will reveal.

Gramma and you are neighbours. I suspect that he lives about 90 minutes from your place via the I90 and I do believe that he is in his mid to late teens.

Im not his neighbour i do not live in the place where he lives in. I Live Milford mass not Northampiton mass i've been there at look park a few months ago. Some users that live in Massachuestts i believe hours away from him. I Did go on Bill's profile and looked and saw that he lied about his age and dig through the internet the truth and it said that hes 8 yrs old.:n::n:

But lets got on billvu and gramma

People like Gramma and Billvu are always going to be with us - they are part of the price we have to pay if we want an open community who contribute their works freely.

Some of these people will be "newbies" who have been caught up in the enthusiasm of creating something, even if it is just a reskin (and that is not always a simple process), and end up unintentionally doing the wrong thing. The worst thing we can do to them is to impose long bans when we need new creators coming into our community. Many (most?) of our current creators started out by doing simple reskins of other peoples work. I suspect that Gramma is at this end of the scale.

At the other end are the real pains - like Billvu. They seem to know exactly what they are doing and have no respect for the work of others. As has been discussed in many other threads dealing with this issue, legal action is not a possibility. The often slow, far too slow for some, but consistent and fair steps outlined in the N3V policy of copyright infringement is the only action we can take. People watching and reporting can result in effective action - even on Youtube as happened to Billvu's "pirated Trainz" video channel.

Reading through other threads on this issue will give you lots of possible technical remedies, all will have their disadvantages. Personally, I think that for the size of our community we have a very small number of copyright abusers. Far too few to be introducing complicated protection measures.

Ok, guys, it's been outlined by the two creators that they are ok with these uploads by 'gramma'. In addition, it appears that the licenses of those assets permitted these uploads.

Again, unless you are the creator, it is not your place to decide if an asset has been uploaded. If you believe one has been uploaded without permission, then please contact the creator to allow them to report it.

As this thread is now being used to attack at least one innocent user, I have locked this thread.

As an addition, so far I've found that other websites require a lot more leg work on the creators part to have files taken down. Personal experience, with illegal uploads of my own content, has shown that at least one 'train sim' dedicated website has not responded to a removal request, and one general file hosting site requires a lot of information to request the file be taken down (which I'm still attempting to put together).

Regards