The "lost generation" of American traction...

Blutorse4792

Now T:ANE I can get into
So the last hurrah of the American traction industry occurred in the 1930s and 1940s, with the PCC car, the Brill Bullet, the Electroliner and the CA&E 450-series rolling off of the assembly lines.

As a result, there were no new streetcars or interurban cars built in the 1950s and 1960s.

By the 1970s, we had the traction "revival" with the spread of light rail, but in my (personal and subjective) opinion, modern LRV vehicles are too utilitarian and less "fun" in their design (like many things after the mid-'60s).

Were there ever any concepts for what streetcars, rapid transit or interurban cars would have looked like if they had continued to evolve in the mid-century modern design era? (~1945-1970)

Could we have seen a successor to the PCC car that resembled a New Look bus?

The closest thing I've ever seen are some very early proposal sketches of BART trains.
 
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Eisenhower and his conspirators, purposely sabotaged and bankrupted the US trolley system in every city, all at once, by buying up all the stock, then they tore the entire US trolley system up ... It was a devious, despicable, deliberate criminal US government act, so they could build the US Interstate road system, conspiring with gas, oil, and auto makers, so they could reap the profits
 
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Eisenhower and his conspirators, purposely sabotaged and bankrupted the US trolley system in every city, all at once, by buying up all the stock, then they tore the entire US trolley system up ... It was a devious, despicable, deliberate criminal US government act, so they could build the US Interstate road system, conspiring with gas, oil, and auto makers, so they could reap the profits

Eisenhower, the US government, nor the Interstate Highway System was not directly involved in the fall of streetcars. While it was factors of the fall of streetcars, they were not involved in the end of streetcars. This is the main reason of the fall of streetcars:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
NOTE: I'm not one to believe in conspiracies, but this is an exception; not because of my passion for trains, but the amount of confirmed evidence of this conspiracy.
 
The US Government conspiracy was careful to cover its tracks (literally speaking) ... and one hand greased the other, and money changed hands, with lobbyists inserting their multiple Bills, inside folders of Congressional Bills set for passing, as is what still happens today

Just like what Disney did in Florida, he directed multiple people out, to secretly buy up all the surrounding land, and no one was the wiser, until he had a monopoly

Altoona (and thousands of other US cities) had a wonderful trolley system, and suddenly one day it was shut down, and all the asbestos ridden trolleys, and trolley bars were burnt in a huge bonfire
 
So you're asking what streetcars would have looked like if they hadn't of been abolished? Probably something like this:
blackpool605.jpg

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Or this:
1041-Museum-HTM-5.jpg

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This one is early 80s, but based on a much earlier bus:
blackpool-tramway.jpg


Obviously these are British and Australian examples but it doesn't require too much of a stretch of the imagination to imagine them running in America. The Centenary team immediately above is probably the closest to the concept you describe, as it was based on the early 1970s designed Leyland National bus, using standard bus components on a tram chassis. I should imagine something similar would have been done with the GM New Look bus.
 
In the trolley heyday, there was a track running up almost every other street in Phila ... people generally bought houses, a few miles, or blocks away from their workplace ... now that the inner city has lost 99.9% of it's workplaces and huge factories, trolleys became a nuisance, causing gridlock of automobiles crawling along behind them ... Today most people drive to work, sometimes 100 miles per day, in distant cities ... and there is no public transit to these areas anymore, especially in rural corporate centers far outside the cities

The idea of the electric car, and HH0 car has been purposely squashed by the Government, and oil lobbyists, and several controversial inventors have met suspicious accidental deaths ... Hmmmm ... Conspiracy :cool:

Several high profile assassinations, were carried out by secret operatives and mechanics, hired by the military and Government, such as "Operation Mongoose", and the low profile common criminal patsies they pinned the "Hit" on, had nothing to do with the operation ... "Big Brother" corruption is everywhere

If someone really wants something "Done Away" with ... They can, and will find, an organization to clandestinely "Do It" for them
 
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*In an alternate universe*
The year is 1985. America's streetcar systems have faced off many crises, but many are now facing closure as the PCC cars that have served valiantly since the 1940s begin to fail. As a result, Congress orders investigations in to a replacement. GM begins research, but it is severely held back by it's lack of knowledge in the field. Back in the 50s, GM assumed the car was the future and attempted to secretly close down American streetcar systems through corruption, but a series of fuel crises because of the long and expensive Suez Wars against Egypt and Saudi Arabia triggered by the Anglo-French invasion put paid to that. Desperate, GM look across the channel to Blackpool, England, where revolutionary new trams are being delivered. They use mainly bus components, but have modern, high-tech thyristor controls and unique 'metalastik' bogies derived from London Underground trains. One of these trams, 651, makes the journey to San Francisco where it is evaluated. It is found to be perfect for MUNI's needs, so GM begin license producing their own versions, but instead of using British Leyland components, they use standard GM New Bus body shells. This was the result:
3ca07cab54bcb6126bf319d756eeee27.jpg

I know its terrible (I did it in MS Paint!) but it sums up the OP's idea perfectly. Perhaps someone with a bit more Photoshop skill should have a go?


On this page there is a (much better) Photoshop of what a long distance, interurban Centenary tram might look like:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/northernblue109/9411469242/in/album-72157631801206903/
 
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In the trolley heyday, there was a track running up almost every other street in Phila ... people generally bought houses, a few miles, or blocks away from their workplace ... now that the inner city has lost 99.9% of it's workplaces and huge factories, trolleys became a nuisance, causing gridlock of automobiles crawling along behind them ... Today most people drive to work, sometimes 100 miles per day, in distant cities ... and there is no public transit to these areas anymore, especially in rural corporate centers far outside the cities

The idea of the electric car, and HH0 car has been purposely squashed by the Government, and oil lobbyists, and several controversial inventors have met suspicious accidental deaths ... Hmmmm ... Conspiracy :cool:

Several high profile assassinations, were carried out by secret operatives and mechanics, hired by the military and Government, such as "Operation Mongoose", and the low profile common criminal patsies they pinned the "Hit" on, had nothing to do with the operation ... "Big Brother" corruption is everywhere

If someone really wants something "Done Away" with ... They can, and will find, an organization to clandestinely "Do It" for them

-Facepalm-
 
A lot of what Cascaderailroad implied is true of much of what occurs in government, sadly, and always has. That said many of the smaller more rural transit companies would probably not be around today because they ran on shoestring budgets which barely kept them afloat before the Great Depression. When the Great Depression hit, many of these companies merged with competing lines, or eventually ended up going belly up anyway soon after.

With the advent of paved roads, the automobile was surely able to make headways in these areas, which of course took their business away, however, in the bigger cities such as Altoona, Scranton, Philadelphia, Brooklyn, Boston, and Albany, just to name more than few, this is where the damage was done. Boston still has its Green Line trolley, light rail today, however, the system has been greatly reduced. The reduction occurred during the 1950s and 1960s when the General Manager of the then Metropolitan Transit Authority was replaced by a puppet whose aim was to eliminate the trolley system. Gone went the very busy lines out to Cambridge, which were replaced with trolley buses and diesel buses, Dedham and Dorchester lost their lines. South Boston it's lines. The rapid transit trolley line to Stoneham was ripped up as well. When it was discovered what was going on, it was too late then, but the head was fired and sent to jail on corruption charges.

The pared down system lasted pretty much as it was until the 1980s, when another pro-bus and anti light rail/trolley General Manager took over. Using cost cutting as away to work on eliminating the outer lines again, he went after the Jamaica Plain Avenue, via Heath Street to Forrest Hills line and the Brighton to Watertown. How could this be a cost-cutting thing if Jamaica Plain line even got upgraded catenary and new track when the system was updated for the LRVs along with new signals, but nothing was done to restore regular service. The Brighton to Watertown line - the A line remained in place as access only to the Watertown shops, but carried no revenue service.

The residents brought the MBTA to court as they attempted numerous times to get these busy lines restored. There was constant stalling and push backs by the "T". There was an extended battle over Jamaica Plain line with much in favor of restoring service, however, suddenly the judge ruled in favor of the "T" almost overnight. We think there was a bit of payola going on here, but nothing was proven. Once the ruling went into place, the tracks and infrastructure, which we all paid for via our state taxes, was ripped up along with the Watertown line.

So in the end, the trip from Forrest Hills is no longer a single seat into downtown, and much has been said about this as well. The neighborhoods that were served by the Jamaica Plain line are not the elite 1% who live in super huge condos. This is a working class neighborhood, and mostly African American and Asian. When the Orange Line EL came down, at the same time the Jamaica Plain to Forrest Hills line was embargoed, the residents of Dorchester (Dudley Street), South Boston, and Roxbury, were promised a replacement trolley system and improved service on the Forrest Hills line. Instead they got stinky diesel buses which tie up traffic, and the trip requires multiple changes in order to reach the downtown. The "T" however spent much money restoring service out to Newton, upgrading the Riverside line, and are building two new branches to Somerville and Medford - all of these areas filled with high-end condos and fancy shops. But as usual, the people who really needed the service were given a deaf ear.
 
I guess you can figure out what really gets my panties all wadded up in a bunch, when we destroy great things, losing them forever. I was behind a trolley the other day (the Antarctican McMurdo transit system) and the trolley pole derailed off the wire on a curve, on a hill, almost tearing down the catenary (that really would have thrown a monkey wrench into the works, and delayed my trip). The operator had to get out and lower the pole and set it back into place, taking a couple minutes.

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At one time you could ride a trolley from Hollidaysburg PA to Juniata for 15 cents (in Altoona), and on to Tyrone ... and ride the Wopsy RR 36" steam train up the mountain to the Wopsononck Resort Hotel for another 25 cents, and stay for weeks at the resort for the rich and famous oil, coal, banking, barons (Carnegie, Ford, Mellon ... etc ...), and ride the carousel, and horseback trails ... now it is all gone, forever (partly because of a raging forest fire, thought to be started by an ember from the steam loco, that raced up the mountain in 1902, burning the areas all the way up to Highland Fling)

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Now all they have is the Amtran bus system, and the 2 train a day Shamtrak

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Blaming Eisenhower for this may not be true as Truman was President during most of the years that I see you talking about. Add to that that the court case was presented in 1948 and the interstate high way act was signed in 1955.
 
The heyday for trolleys (and passenger train travel) was pre WW I. So many of these interurban and trolley systems should never have been built. They were HEAVILY subsidized from hauling freight.

We can blame all sorts of people and institutions, but automobiles and good roads doomed these electric empires.
 
And the profits from selling mega trillions of gallons of gasoline, diesel, and oil, filled the pockets of dozens of Presidents, countless congressmen, senators, representatives, lobbyists, and all the Companies that sucked up the money fueled by the US Highway System, and automobile sales ... everybody got rich ... to be a politician you have to be either crooks or thieves
 
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This is an interesting look at late 19th century and early 20th century rural to small city trolley systems that once existed in my area.

http://www.amesburycity.com/trolleys.htm

The lines were pretty much owned or operated by the same company or variants of the same organization. I remember seeing the ROW of the Haverhill and Newburyport line and tracks in a few places. What is now the town police and fire department in Merrimac, MA (Yes, no k on the end) used to be a trolley barn. Today if you ride east along Route 110, you can still spot signs of the old ROW. In Haverhill along Kenoza Lake the tracks followed close to the shore, the ROW was obvious there until about 10 years ago when the city did some road work. A bit farther up the road though, you can see the ROW along the road as it appears as a slight grassy grade in a few places. When you get up to Route 150 and Route 110 in Amesbury, there's a string of power lines which runs parallel to the road. These come in at a funny angle from Merrimac and Lake Attitash. There's a substation and beach near the lake, and the substation provided power to the trolley system, and the trolley stopped there at the beach at Indian Head Park. The line then ran to Amesbury down what is now Route 150.

Down along the Merrimac River in Amesbury, just a bit west of the Chain Link bridge, there were trolley tracks embedded in the road. When I was a kid they were still there and fairly intact, and there were places were the trolley poles were still in place even though the service was abandoned decades before.

People would take the trolley from the bigger cities such as Manchester and Concord New Hampshire all the way to Hampton Beach and Plum Island. The trip would take 7 hours and require a 110 mile ride so people made the best of it and the trolley company provided various stops at the famous scenic places along the way. In those days it was a lot faster via trolley than the muddy dirt roads and no highways.
 
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Chicago's streetcar system was abandoned in part to ease up street congestion (it was deemed too expensive to move it underground) and the CTA wanted to put more resources into the "L" network.
The 6000-Series "L" cars were actually built from recycled "Green Hornet" PCC cars.

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As for the interurbans, the two that were abandoned both went broke about 10-15 years before any sort of government agency (local or federal) existed to subsidize/operate commuter service.
A third interurban (the South Shore Line) was actually able to survive thanks to its profitable freight business.

It is to my understanding that the GM/National City Lines Conspiracy was mostly limited to smaller cities in the pre-WWII era.
 
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