Multi Industry issue

I'm attempting to configure a multi ind and have run into errors when attempting to configure.

I'm attempting to configure 3 items (all pallets of fruit) into 1 Fruit Pallet, and one crate of oranges into frozen orange juice. All of the items enter into the queues fine but the errors pop up when I attempt to enter an item into the Tracks tab. There are no items to pick from and the error bug pops up:

"Unknown: File industryproductinfocomplete.gs, line 282, ER_Timeout"

"More" provides:
function $bool@IndustryProductInfoCollection:oesProductHaveTrack(Asset,string), line 280
function $string[]@MultipleIndustryNew::GetPropertyElementList(string), line 3979

The only way to get the industry to do anything at this point is to delete the track and start again. Further experimentation appears to reveal the issue happens when the 5th item is entered into the queue. Even if an item is deleted from the queue the error still exists, by all apparent indications it looks like the items have remained in the script even though they have been deleted from the interface. 4 items or less and everything appears to be fine. This error also appears in the "Multiple Industry New"

I like the concept of having to provide product(s) to be able to produce products. With my limited knowledge and experience with T:ain I don't know if there are any other industries that allow this type of configuration. Is there a solution to this or should I live with only having 4 items in an industry?

Happy to provide additional information, any help would be appreciated.

~P

I am having the same issue. I think the problem is bigger than that. A lot of industries that worked in 12 do not work in Tane. You would think that the built in Multi should work as it always had. Sorry I don't have answer but sometimes it just good to know it not just you or your set up. Also when the issue come up do you get the red spider in the lower right of the screen?

Yes, red spider on. That's how I retrieved the error messages.

Thanks for the sanity check, sometimes I do wonder ...

I don't understand why more people have not complained or looked for a solution to this issue. How do you have a built in utility that is so compromised you can't used as it was designed? I didn't upgrade to find a major flaw in the program.

According to Steam, I've played 773 hours since I purchased TANE Deluxe on 3/12/16. This time does not include the hours of research combing the forums to see if what I'm dealing with is my own ignorance or software bugs.

I won't vent my frustration here, apparently there are enough people doing that already. On the other hand, for users new to Trainz, I don't know very many people that would spend almost 2x the normal price for a software package that has this many problems and this steep a learning curve. Given the challenges I don't know why new users would purchase this. For game longevity this does not bode well.

I'm not giving up, I'm a stubborn one. I have a goal of creating a route. I just hope I don't throw in the towel before I get there.

~P

The multi-industry new industries rely on scripts and dependencies. If one of the commodity assets is missing or faulty, that can cause your errors.

They are also older assets, being about 13 years old now based on the build number 2.0. This means, that they can work, however, the code may not be optimized for the newer program we have now.

Keep in mind too that T:ANE is new, perhaps only out about 16 or 18 months now. There's lots of growth ahead with the new version and bugs and issues are being sorted by everyone which includes the community and by N3V.

If you find you have discovered a bug, report it on the helpdesk. Document the bug, giving a step-by-step process of what you did and a detailed description of what occurred. You can even include sample screenshots and files if necessary. After your bug has been reported, outside of the initial generic thank you for reporting email, someone from the helpdesk will contact you via the helpdesk portal.

I know you are struggling now with various little gotchas, but in the end you will be greatly rewarded. There is a whole world here to explore and as new users you have barely scratched the surface unlike some of us who have been here more than a decade, though many of us, including myself, are still learning as well.

John

JCitron said:

Keep in mind too that T:ANE is new, perhaps only out about 16 or 18 months now. There's lots of growth ahead with the new version and bugs and issues are being sorted by everyone which includes the community and by N3V.

Click to expand...

Except this error is not TANE specific... I suffer this in Trainz Mac 2 and I cannot fix it, despite the fact I have no faulty or missing dep. commodities, so... dunno man. Shane tried to help me on another thread on t.net but we ended up with nothing new despite all we tried. Not just limited to multi-industry in my experience, it's MI and everything else that has the black/white plus sign to add products to it, whether it's rollingstock or building or whatever. Shoot, if someone can figure this out, I'm in their debt.

Cheers,
SM

I agree with you lego207. I have been with program for over 10 years but this is the worst upgrade to date! Using built in products ie 20 and 40 ft containers and general good creates the same issue so it is not outdated products.

Hm... interesting. I wish I could help, Lego but it looks like I too am going down the same route that Shane did with you before.

You know there is a known issue with scripted assets, which causes timeouts. The other affects assets are portals and the Quick Drive rule which is built-in. Quick Drive works, however, the consisthelperinfo.gs times out as it grabs the large number of consists I have in some of my sessions.

This is definitely something for N3V to address and I highly recommend submitting a ticket.

John

JCitron said:

They are also older assets, being about 13 years old now [snip] ...

If you find you have discovered a bug, report it on the helpdesk. [snip] ...

[snip] ... many of us, including myself, are still learning as well.

John

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info and cheerleading. I'm a programmer by trade, been on all sides of development, support and code revisions. I cannot imagine attempting to support code greater than 6-years-old, less 13.

Different developers have different methods of logging errors. Any suggestions for searching the helpdesk entries to help in reduction of duplicate entry bugs? Also, I have to admit, part of me is itching to be part of the solution. Is there a way for users to aid in the updating of code? Of course this assumes I get my head around the bulk of how everything interacts.

Lastly, learning keeps one humble. Thanks for the mentoring.

Check the last added assets, they may work well in T12 but in T:ANE they will cause a scripting error. Check if the product-category is kuid:-3:10042, then category-class should be "IL" and allows-mixing should be 1.

John

parsifal300 said:

Thanks for the info and cheerleading. I'm a programmer by trade, been on all sides of development, support and code revisions. I cannot imagine attempting to support code greater than 6-years-old, less 13.

Different developers have different methods of logging errors. Any suggestions for searching the helpdesk entries to help in reduction of duplicate entry bugs? Also, I have to admit, part of me is itching to be part of the solution. Is there a way for users to aid in the updating of code? Of course this assumes I get my head around the bulk of how everything interacts.

Lastly, learning keeps one humble. Thanks for the mentoring.

Click to expand...

Here's a brief history of the product.

T:ANE is a brand new simulator based on a 64-bit environment with its game engine built from the ground up with a compatibility layer in it to support the older program code. There are still so many, many things that need to be fixed and addressed. The original Trainz version started 15 years ago and has grown every since. I started with TRS2004, which came out in December 2003 and have had every version since except for Trainz Classics 3 (TC3), which was UK stuff and I wasn't interested. As time evolved, the product of course changed, though much was based on the same game engine until recently. Starting in early 2004, with TRS2004 SP1 the interactive industries were added. These were supposed to appear in SP0, but they needed to ship for Christmas 2003. The interactive industries which include the multi-industry new, passenger platforms/stations, factories, mines and so on are all code driven. These are controlled via a OOP-language similar to C++ or Java. In fact if you understand this code, you can understand what goes on in them. Open up an asset that is scripted and not built-in. The Jointed Rail signals are good example, and take a look at the .GS file, or search for others in the cache/libraries folder which might be a better idea.

Anyway, the original company Auran went gangbusters until 2006, even came out with a new Trainz version which was compatible with the previous version, well mostly, and finally introduced early error checking. This was TRS2006 and this version also added in a version of the Content Manager which was to stay with us in more and more refined forms right through TS12. Then the shi--- hit the fan when their new foray into MMPOG with their game Fury. This bankrupted the original company, and the Trainz code sat there unchanged. A new group organized, purchased the rights and reformed the company called N3V, who came up with subsequent versions TS2009, TS2010, TS12, and now finally T:ANE.

The problem with each of these versions is they were based on the original Auran Jet gaming engine, and the capabilities of this engine though great and probably underutilized, was getting a bit old. It was written with the early 2000s in mind, and the code speed wasn't there. So it was a couple of years ago that the push for T:ANE as it became known as, was started and now we have that.

The thing is the company, in whatever iteration they are, has always attempted to maintain some compatibility with their older products. This is both a blessing and a curse, as you know since this adds in additional baggage to carry along into each and every version. So I hope this helps explain where things have come from. Hopefully, things will get better, which they have in many ways already though there's still a long road to go.

Anyway, I don't mind helping out it gives me something to do during the day.

John

550

Actually, I am very interested in the history in how Trainz got to the present day. Your synopsis is perfectly timed.

I'm attempting to understand the line between the asset makers and the base code. From my understanding the asset makers are the ones that make the wealth of product that make Trainz worth owning. Some is payware, some is free. Trainz is the base-code needed in order for the asset makers to have something to make assets for. The base-code people need to make a profit, the asset builders need to have a worthwhile foundation to build their assets on. Without assets, no need for base-code. Hopefully a symbiotic relationship.

So whom did the funding from Kickstarter go to? N3V?

Fundamentally, are they the company that needs to make a profit to keep Trainz moving into the future? Or in reverse, if N3V stops making a profit will they stop supporting the code base? Or is N3V sufficiently vested into Trainz (the asset makers are also the vested interest in N3V) they will attempt to keep it going even if there is little profit? From an outsiders view there appears to be a fine line between the people that support the asset base and the company that supports the base code. From a dollars-and-cents side, users have invested thousands of dollars into assets and it would be a bad thing to see base-code development cease and therefore a waste of time and money to buy into or develop additional assets.

I understand we are a little off topic but again, how can I help to be part of solution? Do I work towards fixing faulty assets or does the base-code need to be fixed before the assets can be fixed? If it's the base-code then is N3V sufficiently motivated to do what needs to be done?

Not criticizing, just very interested since I do see the potential in Trainz.

~P

Most of the Kickstarter funding went to N3V with the exception of a 5% fee that Kickstarter charged (plus card handling fees - see https://www.kickstarter.com/help/fees).

There is the option if you wish to take part of fixing faulty assets through the Download Station Cleanup program which is available on the MyTrainz page.

Shane

parsifal300 said:

...
I'm attempting to understand the line between the asset makers and the base code. From my understanding the asset makers are the ones that make the wealth of product that make Trainz worth owning. Some is payware, some is free. Trainz is the base-code needed in order for the asset makers to have something to make assets for. The base-code people need to make a profit, the asset builders need to have a worthwhile foundation to build their assets on. Without assets, no need for base-code. Hopefully a symbiotic relationship.

...

~P

Click to expand...

Trainz is much more than a game or even a simple simulator. That said, you could just "play the game or simulation" with the routes and sessions that came with the game or purchasable as Download Content (DLC) from N3V and others such as Jointed Rail.

But, to many of us, Trainz/Tane is something you can build on to create your own world and that's when it becomes more difficult and, for some, much more interesting and definitely more fun. But it has its pitfalls as well.

In answer to your point above, Trainz provides a base for building and running railroads. An asset usually, but not always, inherits default behaviours from its base object. An asset maker, such as those who make locomotives can add scripts to change the default behaviour of the asset. This might include adding smoke effects, special animation, and literally hundreds of other options.

Getting back to the original post about industries: These are complex objects and their behaviour is very much influenced by the traincar (vehicle) that uses the industry. In fact, it is the traincar object that actually controls the load or unload operation. There are a lot of procedures/methods called in both the industry and traincar objects plus other libraries. The asset builder has to insert various bits of code to start/stop animation and start/stop sound and smoke effects. Add to that the detection of load/unload points via triggers and the whole thing can be very tricky.

I'll admit I had trouble getting Multiple Industry New to work. So I went and built my own instead.

shaneturner12 said:

There is the option if you wish to take part of fixing faulty assets through the Download Station Cleanup program which is available on the MyTrainz page.

Shane

Click to expand...

So much to look into, so little time . Thanks for the reference, see what I can do.

~P

Paul
Is your Multiple industry on Download station? What is it name?
Thanks

gt350 said:

Paul
Is your Multiple industry on Download station? What is it name?
Thanks

Click to expand...

Sorry, maybe I misled you. What I do is build and script my own industries. i.e. they are tailor made and tested for what I want. If I built my own Multiple Industry (new) then it would probably be as confusing as the original.

I'll have a look at the original post (the fruit one) and see if I can recreate the error. Give me a day or so.

pcas1986 said:

...
I'll have a look at the original post (the fruit one) and see if I can recreate the error. Give me a day or so.

Click to expand...

OK, I've managed to recreate the error in the original post. Now comes the hard part of tracking this through the maze of industry scripts.

What I was trying to do was accept fruit pallets and turn them into pallets of canned fruit.

I cloned the asset and did a few tests.

My scenario was that the industry was receiving (unloading) fruit pallets on queue 1 and manufacturing different types of canned fruit that were allocated to additional queues. I was able to allocate products to the track up until the 5th queue. At that point I got the same error as the OP.

The error is a timeout and is the result of TANE thinking this particular asset is chewing up too much processor time. This could be due to a faulty script or some bit of code just taking too long to complete. Without going into technical detail, there is a way to avoid this issue and I did alter part of the asset script to try and fix it but it didn't work. The problem seems to me to be buried deep in the N3V supplied industry code and I cannot easily change that. Why the same bit of code works for four queues and not five is not immediately obvious to me but I will try and follow it in a bit more detail when I find some time.

So, the short answer is that I think the asset is faulty - at least in TANE. If you can get away with just four queues then maybe it would work ok. I'm thinking of an input queue, say of raw material such as fruit, and three output queues, say of canned fruit.

I'm not convinced the error is due to the numbers of items in any queue.