North East England - Steam Days Screenshots - Large Screenshots Possible

f f Hello Borderreiver, Looked up & see the Scarborough to Whitby line had 49ft coaches in NER days like the Pickering to Whitby but on the coast line they were lower elliptical roof type. Odd as I se pics of the NER A8 working that section of the line so not sure why the lower roof was necessary. Odd as BR ran cilrcular trips covering both routes to Whiby vis the coast & Moors return so std length coaches ised on both lines by BR. A mystery >

Hello taillight98 - Looking at the Summer 1926 Carriage Roster finds four four-carriage sets based at Whitby or Malton made up of 45ft carriages. They were Malton & Whitby sets 1 through 4.

Each was made up of Two "ZB" Brake Thirds, a "ZCL" Lavatory Compo with 3 first and 3 Third compartments) and a "ZT" Ordinary Third providing 23 First Class and 158 Third Class seats.
In the roster an X prefix indicates a 52ft carriage, a Y prefix indicates a 49ft carriage, Z indicates a 45 ft carriage and W indicates a carriage of any length will satisfy the roster.
A V suffix indicates a carriage with vacuum braking or vacuum piping (eg. a VV is a vacuum braked (or if built by the N.E.R. a dual braked) 6-wheel Van.

Here are the rosters for the four sets;

258
Malton dep 0746, Whitby arr 0903 (Wash and clean).
Whitby dep 1217 (SX) (Plus set 253. Plus V for Leeds (detached @ Malton)) Malton arr 1330.
Malton dep 1520 (SX) Whitby arr 1637.
Whitby dep 1900 (SX) (Plus V for York (detached @ Malton)) Malton arr 2018 (SX).


Whitby dep 1217 (SO) (Plus set 253. Plus V for Leeds). Malton arr 1338.
Malton dep 1343 (SO) Leeds arr 1459.
Leeds dep 1508 ECS (SO), Neville Hill arr 1518.
Neville Hill dep 1810 ECS* (SO) (*Attached to set 261) Malton arr 1925.

259
Whitby dep 0710 (Clean before starting. WT attached SO) Malton arr 0827.
Malton dep 1042 (WT attached SO) Whitby arr 1157.
Whitby dep 1555 (Wash and clean on arrival. WT attached SO) Malton arr 1714.
Malton dep 1742 (Plus set 253. WT attached SO). (Did not run Saturdays Aug 7 to Sep 18) Whitby arr 1859.

Malton dep 1742 (SO*) ( * ran only Saturdays Aug 7 to Sep 18 ) York arr 1755.
York dep 1845, Malton arr 1925.

260
Malton dep 0538 ( Plus V ex-York, V ex-Leeds & V ex-York for Pickering ) arr Whitby 0649.
Whitby dep 0752 (SX), Malton arr 0905 ( Wash and clean on arrival ).
Whitby dep 1115 (SO) Malton arr 1222
Malton dep 1246 (SO) (Plus set 433) York arr 1315,
York dep 1422 (SO) (Plus 2x WT ) Malton arr 1450
Malton dep 1455 (SO) ( Plus 2x WT ) Whitby arr 1614.
Worked daily and as set 261 on Mondays.

261
Whitby dep 1145 (SO*) ( Wash and clean before starting. Plus 2x WT ) ( * From Jul 24 ) York arr 1330
York dep 1334 (SO*) Leeds arr 1418
Leeds dep 1428 ECS (SO*) Neville Hill arr 1435
Neville Hill dep 1810 (SO*) ( Attached to set 258 ) Malton arr 1925.
Worked daily and as set 260 on Mondays. - (This requires explanation - in my opinion, since set 261 was working on Saturdays only in the 1926 summer roster the note may be a hangover from a previous use of the set. However, it may be that the carriages normally allocated as set 260 were thus granted a "rest day" on Mondays in the summer of 1926 while "working" as set 261 and the carriages allocated to set 261 were run as set 260.)

Set 253 was named "Whitby and Leeds portion" and made up of two carriages; an "XBCL" Lav Brake Compo with 2 First and 3 Third compartments along with a "XTLV" dual-braked Lav Third providing 11 First and 76 Third seats.
Set 433 was comprised of five G.N. vacuum braked carriages in 1926; a "WBLV" Lav Brake Third, 2x "WOTV" Open Thirds, a "DFV" Dining First and a "WBFV" Brake First.

It is not clear why the WBFV is not a WBFLV, since a an "XBFL" code existed. it is very unlikely that the Brake First did not have a lavatory if the Brake Third had one. Presumably corridor/vestibule carriages due to the existence of the Open Thirds and Dining First, even though some "foreign" (i.e. not NE Area) sets are explicitly described as "corridor set". Note that in the roster an "X" prefix indicates 52ft or greater length, even if the carriage was 53ft6in, 59ft6in or even 61ft6in! The "W" prefix indicated that any length of carriage would suffice. I think that the "W" prefix in the case of the former G.N.R. stock was the NE Area acknowledging that they had no control over the length of the carriage allocated to the set by the G.N. Section.

We can always rely on borderriever to produce and display some very interesting NER rolling stock and locos. Great stuff!

Rob.

1914 - Set 260 - 5.38 Malton to Whitby

Northeast England during the steam era. Summer 1914 and the first morning train out of Malton for Whitby is caught on camera in the Esk Valley, between Grosmont and Sleights. It is hauled by 901 Class 2-4-0 number 53.




As per the 1926 carriage roster I have attached two vans, one from Leeds and another from York. A third van from York was detached at Pickering.

45ft Lav Composites to Diagram 47. 10 built between 1898 & 1899.
45ft Third to Diagram 48. 7 built during 1899.
45ft Brake Thirds to Diagram 49. 16 built during 1899.

This would permit eight sets book-ended by Diagram 49s. Four with four-car consists of 2 x ZB, ZCL & ZT and four three-car consists of 2x ZB & ZCL. This would leave two ZCL and three ZTs spare. By 1926 so far I have only found four sets in use in the carriage roster, all the four-carriage type of consist.

Nice pic above & interesting Whitby - Malton carriage diagrams & nice tio see the wash & clean slots in them also.

robd said:

We can always rely on borderriever to produce and display some very interesting NER rolling stock and locos. Great stuff!

Rob.

Click to expand...

Yes we most certainly can Rob.

#864. That is a great screenshot Frank. Trainz needs more Fletcher engines and clerestory coaches.

Thanks Rob, thanks Annie, thanks Taillight98. The 45ft carriages were built by Paul for me a very long time ago now. Some time after I had them built I learned that they were built for service on one line and a year or two after then found in the NERA carriage numbering document that relatively few of them were built. They were very much a limited build to suit a specific set of circumstances. This is not at odds with company build policy though, since carriages were predominantly built to satisfy the particular traffic requirements of the district passenger managers. In many cases they preferred to build like-for like replacements. It was the passenger managers which determined what they wanted built, the accountants then decided what portion of their requirement could be built in the next round of building and the drawing office would provide the drawings for the carriages specified. Sometimes they provided an existing drawing and sometimes they drew up a new drawing. Then it was back to the passenger committee to have them approve it or reject it. In some cases where the process was to turn out a new version of a carriage a prototype was built for assessment.

One outcome of this process was the production of several arc-roof 49ft ordinary carriages in 1906, around five years after the previous lots and two years after they were cascaded away from the North Tyneside services they were built for. This at a time when the company was already turning out elliptically roofed 49ft ordinary carriages. It may be that the arc roof carriages were cheaper, or that the elliptical roof was still somewhat experimental in terms of fabrication speed or quality. The works having to "get up to speed" with turning them out in numbers to the required standard. While there were carriage works they were not production lines in the style of a Ford Model T. Each was closer to being a custom build. Even in the LNER era during Gresley's management, some carriages of the same diagram had small variations in build and minor details while retaining the same diagram number.

Neither the 901 or 1463 class 2-4-0s are recent models. In my opinion both need a tender upgrade, which are on the "to do" list.

In fact most of the work I have planned for the forseeable future relates to upgrades of older models. Paul is currently upgrading the 52ft Diagram 18 3-compartment Van Thirds for me. These were what I call "style 1", which was the version produced between 1895 and 1900. The next commission I am sending to Paul is for the "style 2" version of the Diagram 18 which had a modified layout for the van end produced between 1901 and 1905. The "style 2" actually further divides in to "style 2a" and "style 2b" since some, probably the later ones, were turned out with two glazed side panels in the van section. No-one knows how many since the build record does not does not detail this modification. The final evolution of the N.E.R. 52ft 3-compartment ordinary Van Third came about in 1906 with the Diagram 130, which essentially was the "style 2b" Diagram 18 fitted with an elliptical roof rather than a clerestory roof. I intend at some point to have Paul build me the Diagram 130 too.

All four versions of the Diagram 18/130 would have been allocated to sets requiring an "XB" code carriage in the 1926 roster. The way the N.E.R. rotated stock through the consists can easily have seen any one of the possible permutations of book-ending variation through the 19 main line sets.

This information regarding stock variations within a build is very interesting & I had no idea that it happened. I see there are some ex NER non corridor vehicles on the Tanfield railway so that will be worth a visit when conditions are right. Unusual to find these non corridor stock in use these days although IOW has them which is nice. Also interesting that the old companies recycled old carriages into use such as mess or storage vehicles etc as well as the Civil engineering use. I e. Also the NER would have inherited soem stock from the Hull & Barnsley co following take over. I see one is lurking in the siding at Goathland on NYM. Re non corridor stock made a trip form Manchester to Liverpool one Sunday evening after week end home visit & due to engineering works diversion took from 9.25 till midnight. Quite a trip in non corridor. Normally a fast took 45mins.

Hello taillight98, you can find quite a bit of information on LNER stock on the site Steve Banks operates. He has articles on various carriage types as well as his model building projects. He often writes about the detail variations in the evolution of carriage types within a single diagram number, which was something that was almost continually going on. Sometimes carriages of a particular diagram had as many variations between them as another with a different diagram number. As I mentioned previously though, it was the requirements of the managers of the passenger traffic business who determined what was needed, which could, at the extreme, be down to the production of a surprisingly low number of carriages for a particular traffic. The two buffets produced for the two 1948 Flying Scotsman sets being an example. Another from almost two generations previously was Raven producing three steel bodied kitchen cars in 1914 at York for the two 10 am sets ("The Scotch Express").

As to the ex-NER carriage at the Tanfield Railway I believe that its survival is down to it being sold out of the company to the colliery system at Ashington, in SE Northumberland. It is/was turned out in NCB livery. The N.E.R. and the L.N.E.R. after it both sold redundant stock out of the company. Many wooden bodied hoppers were sold out to colliery owners across the north east. One or two of them might have been as a consequence of the colliery owner holding on to the wagon for too long (or causing significant wear/damage to it while in their custody). At least one letter from the NER to the Lambton system survives in which the company demands that the colliery system returned wagons to the N.E.R. By holding on to an N.E.R. hopper for even a day longer than they should have the Lambton could probably have made a couple of trips to the River Wear staithes and supplemented their wagon fleet. Another surviving letter is one to the Consett Iron Company complaining that their retention of loaded stone wagons was impacting on the traffic in stone. Evidently the CIC was claiming that snow meant that they had to hold on to the loaded wagons to ensure a supply for the furnaces (but the fact that the CIC only paid their quarry supplier on unloading the wagon probably had as much to do with the retention as the snow). The N.E.R. even offered to supply rail crews to clear snow in order to keep lines open at the works in order to justify the unloading and release of wagons.

FYI, In a census by the LNER the company discovered that some wagons had not been seen since leaving the works when brand new! This is probably a consequence of the common user agreement and a failure in reporting to the Railway Clearing House (or perhaps a failure in reporting by the RCH!)

1912 - ECML - Castle Hills Jcn - 8.40 am York to Newcastle

North east England during the steam era. February 1912 and an R1 Class in original saturated condition hauls the 8.40 am York to Newcastle passenger train north of Northallerton.




The train approaches Castle Hills junction.




The train passes to the north of the water troughs.

The 8.40 am departure was rostered to Main Line Carriage set Number 8 in the 1926 roster, which is the closest one we have to the N.E.R. period. The N.E.R. main line sets, of which there were 20 (down to 19 in 1926) were mad eup of 52ft carriages, prefixed "X". A Lavatory Composite (XCL) with 4 1st and 3 3rd compartments, a Third (XT) with 8 compartments and two 3-compartment Van Thirds (XB(3)). This set started work at 1.40 am at York (Mondays excepted), running to Normanton. After almost a five-hour layover at Normanton it departed there at 7.13 am with two vans attached. One was for Hull and the other for Newcastle. Prior to 1902 the Hull van may have been detached at Milford Junction station, which was the junction station for the chord to Gascoigne Wood and the Leeds- Selby line, but this was taken out of use around 1902 and the two-platform replacement, Milford, several hundred metres further south, was not suited to shunting vans or through carriages.

The carriage set which operated the 8.40 am did not do so daily. the carriages themselves rotated through daily. The day prior to this screenshot the carriages worked the roster for ML set 16 and the day following would work the roster for ML set 1, and ML set 12 on Mondays. ML Set 8 reached Newcastle at 11 am, so anyone all the way from York to Newcastle could reach Newcastle at 11.10 am by waiting for the 9.38 am York to Glasgow express passenger train. ML set 8 finished its day at Alnwick at 6,27 pm (Saturdays excepted). On Saturdays it finished its day (and its week's work) at Middlesbrough. On Saturday afternoons it spents its time on a different circuit to that of Mondays to Fridays.

According to the N.E.R. Passenger Engine Working for summer 1908 the locomotive rostered to the 8.45 am from York (the 1908 loco roster and 1910 Bradshaw's departure - equivalent of the 1926 8.40 am) was a Leeds engine in the main line engines part of the roster. the engine turn started at Leeds at 6.13 am. Arrival Newcastle in 1908 and 1910 was 11.31 am. The locomotive would proceed to Heaton Carriage sidings at 11.47am, the enginemen then resting prior to the 2.45 pm return working to Leeds. The men booking off at 5.55 pm. This information indicates that there was quite a ballet going on with carriages, guards, locomotives and footplate crews working a micture of sets and train types over different workings.

For the eagle-eyed, R1 No. 1217 is a York engine, not a Leeds one. My explanation is that the Leeds engine failed after arrival at York from Leeds at 8.06 am on its previous working. No. 1217, due to work the Glasgow departure, has been pressed in to service. York will have to turn out a substitute for the Glasgow express, to run as far as Newcastle, where the rostered Gateshead engine can take it onwards as far as Edinburgh.




The 1906 Diagram 130 Van Third XB(3). Sixteen built, nine in 1906, two in 1907 and the final five in 1910.




The 1895 Diagram 18 Van Third XB(3). One hundred and seventy six were built up to 1906 with around eighty-six of them to this specific design until 1900. From 1900, or possibly 1901 the design of the Van space was modified, with ninety being built more or less to that outline. However, from 1903 a variant appeared that had two side windows added each side to the van space. How many carriages were turned out to that variant is unknown, with some built between 1901 and 1906 retrofitted later. this final variant of the diagram 18 formed the basis of the Diagram 130, which, essentially, is the Diagram 18 fitted with an elliptical roof.

Well I am confused, there are a couple of items that my eagle eye has spotted.
a) How does one determine which engine is allocated from the "passenger Engine Workings"
b) Which carriages are allocated for the XCL, I have a D88 and XT, I have a D94
c) The engine depicted is a 4-4-0 Class R1 later D21 however the number does not appear to be allocated to this unit, it was allocated to a B1 a 4-6-0, only D21's ones at York were 1237 to 1239, 1240, 1245 &1246.

I am up to date with the carriages from Paul.

1916 - ECML - The 8.45 am York to Newcastle

N.E.R. Main Line set No.8 in the hands of a Worsdell 4-4-0 R Class of 1899, No. 2016. Being a different day to the previous set of screenshots it is a different consist of 52ft carriages. The same XCL (4-3), XT and two XB(3)s as required by the roster but today filled by an all-clerestory set of carriages with the addition of the Normanton van. The consist is book-ended by two original Diagram 18 Van Thirds, along with a Diagram 5 Lav Compo but the Third is a Diagram 14.




The R Class were a mainstay workhorse of the NER on main line passenger duties from 1899 to 1922 during the pre-grouping period. Despite being almost a quarter-century old at the grouping the RCTS reported that almost all the 60 locos of the class were allocated to main line sheds such as York, Gateshead, Heaton, Neville Hill, Tweedmouth and Hull Botanic Gardens. Gateshead had an allocation of fourteen while York had the most with fifteen. Leeds Neville Hill had seven on shed, so there was a choice of R Class for the main line passenger engine roster turn which began at 6.13 am. It was the arrival of the Gresley A1 Pacifics which provided the first drop in status for what became the LNER Class D20, as the C6 and C7s began to take work previously allocated to the Class D20 (R Class) and Class D21 (R1 Class) with several D20s moving to lesser sheds such as Scarborough. The arrival of the Gresley D49s caused a further drop down the pecking order.

1904 - ECML - 8.45 am York to Newcastle passenger train

North East England during the steam era. A screenshot of the Edwardian era with Victorian engine and Victorian stock.




The 901 Class 2-4-0 was built to haul passenger trains between Leeds and West Hartlepool via Harrogate and Ripon on the Leeds Northern route. It was essentially a 1440 class 2-4-0 with smaller wheels. The six wheeled stock was built as late as 1897, but by the mid-1900s bogie carriages were in the ascendency, especially on the main lines. As bogie carriages were allocated to workings such as Newcastle - Liverpool and Leeds - Glasgow the 6-w Lavatory First, Lavatory Composite and Lavatory Thirds would have been welcome arrivals on longer distance stopping passenger trains.

Finally reached the departure time in my North Yorkshire route.
This video is the [h=2]1916 - ECML - The 8.45 am York to Newcastle[/h]departing York platform 5.
I purposely hide the roof structure to allow viewing of the station movements.
here is a link to my Dropbox
[video]https://www.dropbox.com/s/7uhuplpjferg524/1916%20-%20ecml%20-%20the%208.45%20am%20york%20to%20newcastle.mp4?dl= 0[/video]

Thanks, still a lot to do however once again concentrating on running my session through to end of day at present, introducing more movements out of York as I go.
I also will be updating the Clifton shed layout to reflect that depicted in the recently published NERA Engine Sheds.

Also
- What track are you using in the image.
- I continue to have difficulties with finding correct signals.

I joined the NERA live meeting this morning, we are 11 hours in front of you.

Hello Jack,

Lielestosbrat's LRW procedural track e.g. <kuid:101839:21010> LRW Track, Wood, Bullhead, Brown Ballast
As for signals, I mostly use chrisaw's NER LQ and LNER UQ signals which he kindly built for the DLS, e.g. <kuid2:218467:25064:3> Sig NER home 30ft
Chris also produced several NER gantries, cantilever, 40ft, 52ft, 72ft and 90ft.
Look for <kuid2:218467:28101:1> Sig NER gantry cantilever.

Paul of Paulztrainz produced a series of NER Northern Division signal cabins for the DLS, which I see you already use.
John Whelan and Chris Sprague have worked to produce several NER Southern Division Type 3 signal cabins for the DLS, including some very long ones, which I think are generally in short supply in Trainz.
I know that leaves Southern Division Type 1, 2 and 4 unbuilt, but I am grateful for the work that both John and Chris have poured in to what originally was a project to build HILLAM GATES signal cabin.
Edh6 has also built two NER TPOs for the DLS as well as the LNER ones.

I was thinking to myself that looked to be a very useful type of carriage Frank.