North East England - Steam Days Screenshots - Large Screenshots Possible
- Thread starter borderreiver
- Start date
borderreiver
Well-known member
I have tried several different iterations of figures and letters to get what I think is an acceptable result and I have shared them with Paul. Some of my cloned assets have worked and others really haven't worked. I think that asset creators are gifted people. I think that the work Steve Banks has done on his site to highlight the range of teak finishes and the state of the "white" roofs helped considerably. It would seem that white roofs were a rare sight in practise. Various shades of grey, particularly towards the dark greys and even soot covered black appear to have been common. Coaches seem to have often had panels with different shades and in some cases the teak had aged to a very dark shade. Grime and dirt would change appearance further. There were no mechanical carriage washing facilities. It was literally hoses, buckets, soap, scrubbing brushes and manpower. I remember my grandmother telling me that when she was younger hot water was required to dissolve laundry soap and that a block of soap had to be literally shaved/grated in to the water. I think that Proctor and Gamble first produced soap powder ("Dreft") in 1933 but it was not anything like as powerful a cleaner as found in the 1960s onwards.
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I sympathize with you entirely over the question of what is acceptable as a varnished teak finish for these particular models from Paulz. Although Paulz has made quite a decent job of the ECJS stock I think his original textures are somewhat garish i.e. the teak too orange, the roofs too white (brilliant white?) and those bright red springs on the bogies! All of these textures I have modified on the ECJS stock I have from Paulz along with some lettering and number changes.
Looking at your shots, you appear to have done a good job, I quite like the look you've acheived; you've even toned down the red bogie springs somewhat!
Rob.
borderreiver
Well-known member
I used a rust filched from a photo on the web to tinker with the springs. I am still debating about if they need further work but the image size is a constraint.
borderreiver
Well-known member
Ex-ECJS Coaches on the BCR 1940s
Northeast England during the steam era. TS12 shots set in the 1930s on the Border Counties Railway. At this time the former NBR route was part of the LNER's Southern Scottish Section. In the mid-1930s the LNER's carriage building programme cascaded several former pre-grouping East Coast Joint Stock carriages to the Southern Scottish Section. Amongst them were a 58ft6in East Coast Diagram 49 6-compartment Corridor Brake Third, several 58ft6in EC Diagram 34 Corridor Compartment Thirds and a 61ft6in EC Diagram 2B Corridor Composite Locker. From a photograph taken at Kielder in early BR days I believe that the Diagram 49 was definitely on the BCR (the 6-compartment BTK type was a rare design) and I have taken modeller's license to have four ex-ECJS coaches rostered to Hawick for the service to Newcastle. Despite being between 22 and 30 years old in 1935/1936 these coaches would have been a significant upgrade compared to the former NBR non-corridor carriages provided before this date. Certainly the toilet facilities would have been appreciated on the three hour journey between Hawick and Newcastle. I am not sure if the NBR built a bogie Lavatory Composite coach that could have been rostered to Hawick (the NER built a number of them for longer distance services).
Edh6's J36 hauling the four-coach Hawick to Newcastle passenger service made up of CG, TK, TK and BTK. With a short Guard's van to the BTK this was not a train generously provided with luggage space. However, the provision of the luggage locker in the Composite would mitigate this to some degree, at least for the walk required by any First Class passengers. How many long-distance travellers with large cases and trunks travelled along the BCR though? probably not a large number but with several country houses within reach of the line shooting parties may have used the train during the grouse season. As far as I know the NBR and LNER never used the destination headboard on the BCR but I am giving it a run out today.
The Dia 2B CG. I have darkened the teak and roof. These would probably have been rather weathered too. I dont think Hawick employed a large carriage cleaning gang.
One of the Dia 34 TKs. I have used a texture used by Mike10 on his BR Mk1 coach roof and tinkered with it for the TK. Again, darker aged teak.
The dia 49 BTK.
Northeast England during the steam era. TS12 shots set in the 1930s on the Border Counties Railway. At this time the former NBR route was part of the LNER's Southern Scottish Section. In the mid-1930s the LNER's carriage building programme cascaded several former pre-grouping East Coast Joint Stock carriages to the Southern Scottish Section. Amongst them were a 58ft6in East Coast Diagram 49 6-compartment Corridor Brake Third, several 58ft6in EC Diagram 34 Corridor Compartment Thirds and a 61ft6in EC Diagram 2B Corridor Composite Locker. From a photograph taken at Kielder in early BR days I believe that the Diagram 49 was definitely on the BCR (the 6-compartment BTK type was a rare design) and I have taken modeller's license to have four ex-ECJS coaches rostered to Hawick for the service to Newcastle. Despite being between 22 and 30 years old in 1935/1936 these coaches would have been a significant upgrade compared to the former NBR non-corridor carriages provided before this date. Certainly the toilet facilities would have been appreciated on the three hour journey between Hawick and Newcastle. I am not sure if the NBR built a bogie Lavatory Composite coach that could have been rostered to Hawick (the NER built a number of them for longer distance services).
Edh6's J36 hauling the four-coach Hawick to Newcastle passenger service made up of CG, TK, TK and BTK. With a short Guard's van to the BTK this was not a train generously provided with luggage space. However, the provision of the luggage locker in the Composite would mitigate this to some degree, at least for the walk required by any First Class passengers. How many long-distance travellers with large cases and trunks travelled along the BCR though? probably not a large number but with several country houses within reach of the line shooting parties may have used the train during the grouse season. As far as I know the NBR and LNER never used the destination headboard on the BCR but I am giving it a run out today.
The Dia 2B CG. I have darkened the teak and roof. These would probably have been rather weathered too. I dont think Hawick employed a large carriage cleaning gang.
One of the Dia 34 TKs. I have used a texture used by Mike10 on his BR Mk1 coach roof and tinkered with it for the TK. Again, darker aged teak.
The dia 49 BTK.
KotangaGirl
Pre-Grouping Railways Nut
I agree, the teak looks very good. I find with Paul's coaches I have to do a lot of texture adjustments to get them to look right. His NER 6 wheel luggage van as an example took a lot of work with levels, colour tone and shade adjustments before it started to look as it should. And what is it with the red springs? It's almost a signature trademark with his models. But all that aside I'm more than happy to buy from him since he makes things no-one else does.
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borderreiver
Well-known member
1923 ECJS Veteran BV
Not Northeast England during the steam era this time but very much a veteran of the ECML by the beginning of the LNER period. An ECJS 29ft Diagram 37 Six-Wheel Luggage brake built at Doncaster between 1883 and 1893 for service on the East Coast Joint Stock Anglo-Scottish trains. My latest commission with Paul Mace and the first model as a work in progress. One was rostered for the 2:20 p.m. London Kings Cross to Edinburgh passenger express (The Afternoon Scotch Express) circa 1914 and possibly still rostered on the East Coast Main Line as late as 1922. These dual-braked vans could have turned up on GNR/LNER S Area GN Section trains and could have fitted the bill as the LNER Code "VV" Vacuum Brake Van, several of which appear in E Yorkshire and W Yorkshire carriage rosters in 1926.
Not Northeast England during the steam era this time but very much a veteran of the ECML by the beginning of the LNER period. An ECJS 29ft Diagram 37 Six-Wheel Luggage brake built at Doncaster between 1883 and 1893 for service on the East Coast Joint Stock Anglo-Scottish trains. My latest commission with Paul Mace and the first model as a work in progress. One was rostered for the 2:20 p.m. London Kings Cross to Edinburgh passenger express (The Afternoon Scotch Express) circa 1914 and possibly still rostered on the East Coast Main Line as late as 1922. These dual-braked vans could have turned up on GNR/LNER S Area GN Section trains and could have fitted the bill as the LNER Code "VV" Vacuum Brake Van, several of which appear in E Yorkshire and W Yorkshire carriage rosters in 1926.
borderreiver
Well-known member
The ECJS Diagram 37 29ft Howlden van
Hello Robd, it is as supplied by Paul. I have been working with him on it. This is my latest commission with him since I need the Diagram 37 for the 2:20 p.m. 1914-1922 ECJS Departure from Kings Cross for Edinburgh. I think that I will find plenty of use for it in van stock added to passenger trains. In pre-grouping days and early LNER days there was one "parcels train". It ran overnight to the Northeast and return. "Parcels Vans" on the ECML, particularly the GNR Main Line (LNER Southern Area GN Section) during the period were usually attached to the front or rear (or front AND rear) of secondary passenger trains. Sometimes this could extend to six or seven bogie vehicles. Again, research by Steve Banks has been invaluable on this. In one captioned shot on his website a "secondary express" behind an A4 4-6-2 in LNER days was scheduled to take SIX HOURS to travel from Leeds to London. usual motive power was a K3 2-6-0. Stopping at stations to add/remove vans and full brakes, some coming from places such as Cleethorpes. On Saturdays the roster included two six-wheel Thirds!!!! As Steve remarks "hardly the stuff of expresses".
Below are the pretty as-finished models.
The ECJS Diagram 37, with Howlden features built at Doncaster 1883-1893 but for the period 1914-1922
The ECJS Diagram 37 in weathered condition.
The LNER era Diagram 37 for the period 1923 - 1925 with J suffix for ECML stock.
The LNER era Diagram 37 for the period 1923 - 1925 in weathered condition.
According to Ken Hoole there were 27 Diagram 37s. The largest batch were 8 built in 1893 by Cravens, Nos. 214 - 221. Other numbers were 46A 47A 48A 49 50A 51 52A 53A 54A 82 83A 84 85A 100A 101A 102A 110 112 144 and 145. The A indicates they were on the ECJS Duplicate list. Given that 50 52 and 53 were taken by Diagram 36 BGs in 1903 this had happened by then. One Diagram 36 was number 82 yet there was also a number 82 Diagram 37. A typo or had the Diag 37 No. 82 been disposed of?
Hello Robd, it is as supplied by Paul. I have been working with him on it. This is my latest commission with him since I need the Diagram 37 for the 2:20 p.m. 1914-1922 ECJS Departure from Kings Cross for Edinburgh. I think that I will find plenty of use for it in van stock added to passenger trains. In pre-grouping days and early LNER days there was one "parcels train". It ran overnight to the Northeast and return. "Parcels Vans" on the ECML, particularly the GNR Main Line (LNER Southern Area GN Section) during the period were usually attached to the front or rear (or front AND rear) of secondary passenger trains. Sometimes this could extend to six or seven bogie vehicles. Again, research by Steve Banks has been invaluable on this. In one captioned shot on his website a "secondary express" behind an A4 4-6-2 in LNER days was scheduled to take SIX HOURS to travel from Leeds to London. usual motive power was a K3 2-6-0. Stopping at stations to add/remove vans and full brakes, some coming from places such as Cleethorpes. On Saturdays the roster included two six-wheel Thirds!!!! As Steve remarks "hardly the stuff of expresses".
Below are the pretty as-finished models.
The ECJS Diagram 37, with Howlden features built at Doncaster 1883-1893 but for the period 1914-1922
The ECJS Diagram 37 in weathered condition.
The LNER era Diagram 37 for the period 1923 - 1925 with J suffix for ECML stock.
The LNER era Diagram 37 for the period 1923 - 1925 in weathered condition.
According to Ken Hoole there were 27 Diagram 37s. The largest batch were 8 built in 1893 by Cravens, Nos. 214 - 221. Other numbers were 46A 47A 48A 49 50A 51 52A 53A 54A 82 83A 84 85A 100A 101A 102A 110 112 144 and 145. The A indicates they were on the ECJS Duplicate list. Given that 50 52 and 53 were taken by Diagram 36 BGs in 1903 this had happened by then. One Diagram 36 was number 82 yet there was also a number 82 Diagram 37. A typo or had the Diag 37 No. 82 been disposed of?
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Thank you for the very interesting and detailed reply!
I'm quite impressed by the texture colour variation that has been achieved with these vans.
It appears that your needs as far as rolling stock is concerned is quite specific, even down to individual train consist make up at specific times of day on noted days, presumably as per the timetables!
I admire your attention to detail and your attention to the minutiae of your subject, did you have any association with the ECML/ECJS train scheduling organisation?
Rob.
I'm quite impressed by the texture colour variation that has been achieved with these vans.
It appears that your needs as far as rolling stock is concerned is quite specific, even down to individual train consist make up at specific times of day on noted days, presumably as per the timetables!
I admire your attention to detail and your attention to the minutiae of your subject, did you have any association with the ECML/ECJS train scheduling organisation?
Rob.
borderreiver
Well-known member
Hi Robd. I am not associated with Network Rail Timetabling team, but that is an extremely intricate job weaving dozens of trains through many different permutations of route, speed, acceleration envelope, deceleration envelope and station calls. It was similarly complicated back in steam days though. I am just moderately well read with regards to some of the historical information available. Steve Banks is a major source, along with WTTs, various books and other publications such as a couple of LNER NE Area Carriage rosters along with Bradshaws 1922 and 1938. There are still many gaps though because the source material was largely not considered important enough to keep once superseded.
The rolling stock becomes specific because trains were literally made up in a different way in the pre-grouping and big four periods. Literally, because coaches were mostly built in small batches for specific traffics (and in some cases a specific train, especially for the principal long distance express services). On the LNER this is reflected in the sheer number of carriage diagrams present in the carriage drawing books. Even then, a process of more or less unrelenting progress meant that a single diagram could also encompass several detail changes. Contrarily, in some cases two different diagram numbers might be very similar! (Some coaches might have two different underframe types or two different types of bogie during their lives). Some diagrams refer to only a single coach with others referring to two, three or four carriages. Many pre-grouping ECJS coaches received 8ft6in compound bogies during the 1920s to replace their 8ft Fox ones. For the ECJS there were over 30 different coach diagram types rostered to operate the day time Anglo-Scottish express trains, and there were only five run each day!
The rolling stock becomes specific because trains were literally made up in a different way in the pre-grouping and big four periods. Literally, because coaches were mostly built in small batches for specific traffics (and in some cases a specific train, especially for the principal long distance express services). On the LNER this is reflected in the sheer number of carriage diagrams present in the carriage drawing books. Even then, a process of more or less unrelenting progress meant that a single diagram could also encompass several detail changes. Contrarily, in some cases two different diagram numbers might be very similar! (Some coaches might have two different underframe types or two different types of bogie during their lives). Some diagrams refer to only a single coach with others referring to two, three or four carriages. Many pre-grouping ECJS coaches received 8ft6in compound bogies during the 1920s to replace their 8ft Fox ones. For the ECJS there were over 30 different coach diagram types rostered to operate the day time Anglo-Scottish express trains, and there were only five run each day!
borderreiver
Well-known member
1922 Diagram 20 32ft 2 compartment Van Third
Several years ago I commissioned N.E.R. six-wheel coaches and I have started to replace the lettering and figures with new shaded ones. I also learned from the NERA publication on NER Coaching Stock numbers that I need to revise the diagram numbers. For example, what I thought was a "Diagram 81A" was in fact "Diagram 20" and the drawing number was 81A. In the NERA publication I also have all the numbers assigned to the Diagram 20, built between 1892 and 1897, of which there were many! Most were not consecutive.
Below, Diagram 20 No. 379 built in 1894 with tweaked livery, numbering and lettering. using Robd's circular NER logo.
Several years ago I commissioned N.E.R. six-wheel coaches and I have started to replace the lettering and figures with new shaded ones. I also learned from the NERA publication on NER Coaching Stock numbers that I need to revise the diagram numbers. For example, what I thought was a "Diagram 81A" was in fact "Diagram 20" and the drawing number was 81A. In the NERA publication I also have all the numbers assigned to the Diagram 20, built between 1892 and 1897, of which there were many! Most were not consecutive.
Below, Diagram 20 No. 379 built in 1894 with tweaked livery, numbering and lettering. using Robd's circular NER logo.
Several years ago I commissioned N.E.R. six-wheel coaches and I have started to replace the lettering and figures with new shaded ones. I also learned from the NERA publication on NER Coaching Stock numbers that I need to revise the diagram numbers. For example, what I thought was a "Diagram 81A" was in fact "Diagram 20" and the drawing number was 81A. In the NERA publication I also have all the numbers assigned to the Diagram 20, built between 1892 and 1897, of which there were many! Most were not consecutive.
Below, Diagram 20 No. 379 built in 1894 with tweaked livery, numbering and lettering. using Robd's circular NER logo.
Just seen this - so much better, and, according to your knowledge and needs, so much more accurate!
Rob.
borderreiver
Well-known member
Rob, no doubt about that. A quick off the cuff summary of work yet to have done........ NER Bogie Corridor stock (the NER only had around 76 of these beasts believe it or not). Principal use Newcastle to Liverpool and Hull to Liverpool. Several more diagrams of NER Bogie Clerestory stock, Several more diagrams of ECJS Bogie Corridor stock, the GNR&NE Joint Stock, LNER Gresley ECML stock (turnbuckle underframe), LNER Gresley ECML stock (angle frame underframe), LNER Gresley End vestibule stock for Principal Expresses, the LNER 1924 and 1938 Flying Scotsman sets, the LNER Gresley Articulated Saltburn sets, updating the GNR Ivatt Large Atlantic model, NER V Class Atlantic, LNER Raven Pacific (NER Class 4-6-2, LNER Class A2), updating the previous Thompson coaches I commissioned, updating the previous NER coaches I commissioned, NER cattle wagons, NER horsebox, NER 6-wheel Luggage Vans cascaded to fitted goods train brake van duties, several NER station buildings and several NER Signal boxes.
KotangaGirl
Pre-Grouping Railways Nut
On my NER 6w luggage van I adjusted the colour intensity levels on the lining to stop it from shining and glinting like it was made of polished brass. I also made other colour shade adjustments so that the panelling blended together and looked properly 3D and not as if it was made of bits tacked on along the side of the van. I used photos of the NER coaches at the Tanfield Railway as a guide in an attempt to get the colours right. (The coaches might be at Beamish now).
My layout could not even begin to hold a candle to your amazing project Borderreiver, but van traffic is very much a part of operations so this NER van gets a lot of use. Those 29ft GNR 6 wheel vans are very nice. The weathering variations and ageing on the teak finish is very well done.
Your commission list for Paul is almost mind-boggling, but I'm not going to complain since it means that so many model for the NER are now available.
My layout could not even begin to hold a candle to your amazing project Borderreiver, but van traffic is very much a part of operations so this NER van gets a lot of use. Those 29ft GNR 6 wheel vans are very nice. The weathering variations and ageing on the teak finish is very well done.
Your commission list for Paul is almost mind-boggling, but I'm not going to complain since it means that so many model for the NER are now available.
borderreiver
Well-known member
Both the Tanfield Railway and Beamish Museum are within a thirty minute drive of where I live. The Tanfield Railway has several coaches which are in NER Crimson Lake, four and six wheel types. It is quite some time since the former NER Bogie Clerestory went to Beamish where it would be seen at the reconstructed Cold Rowley station (the original station site is another local spot for me).
Hi borderreiver,
With reference to the Howlden brake luggage vans from Paulz. I ordered a couple and I'm very pleased with them but I've found the interior view doesn't work properly, is the interior view working in your copies?
I have given feedback to Paulz on this, he says he's going to look in to the problem but so far has not contacted me with a solution/fix.
Did you install them in to T:ANE SP2 build 90945 ?
Thanks,
Rob.
With reference to the Howlden brake luggage vans from Paulz. I ordered a couple and I'm very pleased with them but I've found the interior view doesn't work properly, is the interior view working in your copies?
I have given feedback to Paulz on this, he says he's going to look in to the problem but so far has not contacted me with a solution/fix.
Did you install them in to T:ANE SP2 build 90945 ?
Thanks,
Rob.