North East England - Steam Days Screenshots - Large Screenshots Possible

Video Experiment

Northeast England during the steam era.
An experiment, trying a video screen capture in TRS2019.
1947 and Newcastle King Edward bridge with a Gresley D49 4-4-0 running light engine to Gateshead Shed.



the route is a long term project and remains a work in progress.

The link below on youtube.

https://youtu.be/avTxHP6cSks
 
Last edited:
The bogies look good, will Paulz make them available as individual assets? Are these the same or similar to the Moulton Spencer double bolster bogies?

Rob.
 
Last edited:
Hello Rob

The Gresley Bogies are the Spencer Moulton type, yes. 8ft6in in regular (or light) and heavy versions. You will have to ask Paul if he will make them available as individual assets. I commissioned them with and without step plates in teak wheel and black wheel versions, each in ex-works and weathered variants. I mean them to go under the Thompson carriages I commissioned five years ago as part of an upgrade to them for TRS2019. It is going to take a while to work my way through the eleven diagrams of carriage involved.
 
Last edited:
Border Counties Railway 1919 - A Video Ride

Northeast England during the steam era.
Circa 1919 on the Border Counties Railway.
A Scott Class 4-4-0 in charge of a passenger train from Newcastle to Hawick and Edinburgh.
The ride, duration around eleven minutes is captured from the view point of the locomotive cab and uploaded to youtube as an mp4 video, which, at 953 Mb in 1080p is a very large video file.
That is a caution in case you intend to view it on a slow internet connection or where you pay for downloading data.



The video shows a C Class 0-6-0 waiting in the Wansbeck branch platform at Reedsmouth Junction, a southbound goods train crosses with the passenger train at Reedsmouth Junction and another C Class awaiting its turn for duty sits waiting outside Reedsmouth Junction shed.

The youtube link to the video is below:

https://youtu.be/S76dQapAhRs
 
1919 and the Diagram 205 67ft RT

Thanks Rob.
Back to Newcastle Central 100 years ago and there is a new kid on the block, a N.E.R. 1914 Diagram 205 Dining Third. The RT was the sole example of the Diagram. 67ft long, riding on six-wheel bogies and accomodating thirty Third Class diners. Typically paired with a 53ft6in First Open which would accomodate 36 First Class diners. According to Steve Banks in his book on the LNER Principal Services this configuration of RT and FO would serve the demand of a nine carriage set where a minimum of fifty diners needed to be served at a single sitting.

A N.E.R. 59 Class 0-6-0 is on pilot duty today.










The Diagram 205 remained in use on express passenger trains until the mid-1930s. It was not withdrawn until 1962, at 48 years of age. Catering vehicles tended to be long lived because of their complexity and high captial cost.
 
49ft NER Arc Roof Stock

Northeast England during the steam era. During 1899, the North Eastern started building 49ft long bogie arc roof compartment stock for use on the busy lines north of the Tyne. Having low height arc roofs meant that they were cheaper to build than clerestory carriages and Gould couplings meant that they were closely coupled. They would not last long on the route, with the N.E.R. electing to electrify the line from Newcastle Central via Tynemouth and Whitley Bay to the former Blyth & Tyne Newcastle Manors station, which was also to be turned from a terminus station to a through station permitting running back to Newcastle Central. This would permit trains to either run Newcastle - Jesmond - Tynemouth - Newcastle or Newcastle - Tynemouth - Jesmond - Newcastle. On the commencement of electric trains the 49ft stock was cascaded to other services, probably displacing older six-wheel carriages in the process. The Brake Thirds and distinctive guard lookouts above the roof line.

One assignment deduced from the N.E.R.A.'s 1926 L.N.E.R. N.E. Area Carriage Roster were the five Newcastle Link B sets, which were numbered 40 through 44 and predominantly running between Newcastle and South Shields, doing the same job as they previously did on North Tynesdie, shifting large numbers of passengers to work in Newcastle. Set 41 did stray from the route at times though, with a working on Wednesdays to Durham via Leamside and a working to Lanchester via Leamside and Durham on Saturdays.



The set core consisted of five carriages. Two 4-compartment Brake Thirds to Diagram 53, two 8-compartment Thirds to either Diagram 51 or 52 and an unusual 7-compartment Composite with Five First Class compartments to Diagram 63 and two Third Class compartments. Fifty-four Diagram 53 BT(4) were built, nine Diagram 51 Thirds, eighteen Diagram 52 Thirds along with twenty Diagram 63 Composites (5-2).



Jesmond and Whitley Bay may have provided a healthy level of demand for First Class seating, being popular with the managerial market. However, I believe that forty First Class seats could well have been an over-supply on the route from South Shields, though I have no information on either rebuilding or downrating of the First Class compartments.

During L.N.E.R. days the stock carried brown teak paint, lined until the economies of 1929.

The drawing for the Diagram "50" C (5-2) indicated that 50 was struck through, actually being built as Diagram 63. The N.E.R.A. booklet on N.E.R. carriage numbers shows twenty Diagram 63s being built.
 
Last edited:
NER 49ft Arc Roof Stock

The North Eastern Arc Roof stock may also have formed the Newcastle Link A sets. These four car consists were made up of two 49ft 4-compartment Brake Thirds, one seven compartment Composite with four First Class along with three Third Class compartments and an eight compartment Third Class carriage. This would fit the Diagram 53 Brake Third, either Diagram 55 or Diagram 64 Composites and either Diagram 51 or 52 Third. Newcastle Link A sets were numbers 32 through 38.

Between the Newcastle Link A sets and Newcastle Link B sets, set number 39 was cancelled by 1926 but the date of cancellation is unknown and whether it was previously a Link B set, Link A set, or some other is unknown. In the seven Link A set numbers in 1926, set number 36 was also cancelled by 1926.

Between the combined totals for Link A and Link B sets, twenty-two of the fifty-four Diagram 53 Brake Thirds can be accounted for, with sixteen Third Class carriages of the twenty-seven combined build of Diagrams 51 & 52. Six of the Composites (4-3) from the build of nine Diagram 55s with the Link B sets accounting for five of the twenty Diagram 63 Composites (5-2).

The Newcastle Link A sets were frequent visitors to the Derwent Valley branch to Blackhill, with some trips onwards to Durham via the Lanchester Valley branch. Sunderland, Hebburn (on the South Shields branch), North Wylam and Prudhoe. Set 35 found its way to Wellfield, West Hartlepool and Monkseaton on its daily weekday travels, while set 38 on Saturdays ventured down to Ferryhill. During the course of their day all had at least one strengthening Third attached for at least part of the day while Saturdays mostly saw two attached, often for the whole day. One, set 35, even gained three extra Third Class carriages on Saturdays until 6:41 p.m.

A Newcastle Link A set core consist at Newcastle Central.





Like the Diagram 63, the provision for four First Class compartments in Diagrams 55 may have been well-patronised while on North Tynesdie commuter services up to 1904, but probably somewhat less utilised when cascaded elsewhere. The Composite carriage made up of three First Class and four Third Class was represented in the 49ft Arc Roof type by thirteen Diagram 64s built during 1901/1902, with later elliptical roof 49ft carriages turned out to the same (3-4) configuration (fourteen Diagram 146 Composites (3-4) built in 1907 and six Diagram 160 Composites (3-4) built in 1908).

Several of the carriages built to Diagram 63 and 64 were converted from Composite carriages to Third Class carriages. The numbers are not included in the build figures for Diagram 63 and 64 stated earlier. The conversion appears to have amounted to merely reclassifying the First Class compartments as Third Class and replacing the First Class interior with a Third Class interior. This applied to thirteen former Diagram 63, turned out as Diagram 108 Thirds and three former Diagram 64, turned out as Diagram 109 Thirds. This conversion may have taken place at the works while on the production line. Either that or immediately after building. This meant that there were sixteen Third Class carriages where between four or five compartments in each had the luxury of First Class legroom, which was fourteen and a half inches more than the typical Third Class compartment of other 49ft stock. I can imagine that Third Class passengers would have quickly learned where to find a Diagram 108 or 109 in a consist!
 
Last edited:
Those 49ft arc roof coaches are very nice Frank and I have to say I like them better than the later elliptical roofed coaches.

Always interesting to read your research notes too.
 
Thanks Annie

Further to the Diagram 63 to 108 and Diagram 64 to 109 conversions, here is what they would have looked like in N.E.R. days pre-grouping. I have placed one of each either side of an eight compartment Diagram 51 Third.

The Diagram 109 v 51 views.





The Diagram 108 v 51 views.





Ordinary Thirds to 49ft and 52ft lengths were normally eight compartment carriages accomodating eighty travellers. I looked for a YT(7) entry in the 1926 carriage roster, which would be the explicit code for the Diagram 108 or 109s. Set 280, the York and Strensell set was the first and only entry found. Used daily, leaving York at 8:08 a.m. for Strensall (arriving 8:28) and returning at 8:38 a.m. for York (arriving 8:52). On Saturdays it would make one further run, departing at 10:25 a.m. (arrive Strensall 10:42 a.m), returning at 10:50 a.m. (arriving York 11:07 a.m.). Hardly an intensive use of stock! I suspect that the other Diagram 108/109s either disappeared in to the strengtheners ("WT" in the roster covering either 49ft or 52ft carriages) or perhaps they found a home among the company's excursion stock, though while the 7ft1 1/2in compartments would have been well received on most journeys, the 5ft 11in compartments would not have been well received on longer journeys, where the extra three inches provided in the company's 52ft stock (Third Compartment typically 6ft2in) would have given a bit of extra "wriggle room".

The Diagram 108 and 109s seemingly were not destined for inclusion in the arc roof sets on North Tyneside, with the term "automatic couplings" being struck through in the build listing. this would not preclude their use as strengtheners, since those carriages were often marshalled outside the brake ends of most consists, to make it easier to attach/remove them. Attaching them at the rear was attractive where they could be uncoupled at a (larger) intermediate station on the journey and left behind, the station pilot dealing with them afterwards. Woe betide any weary traveller catching a nap in a strengthener which was left behind! The station staff were supposed to check the compartments before the carriages were drawn away as empty stock but whether they were always fastidious about making sure anyone sat in a strengthener thinking they were going the whole way with the train was found and directed to the departing carriages in time I can only speculate. Given human nature I expect that there were occasional lapses and no doubt "stong words" were exchanged in the aftermath!
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the NER pictures Frank. Very much a last 'Huzzah' for 19th century coach design on the NER which is most probably why I like them.

An enjoyable post to read too.
 
49ft Arc Roof Stock

Thanks Annie.

Looking through the half yearly carriage returns for 1906 - 1912 I see that the Diagram 108 and 109 are not listed with an annotation as being excursion stock. Third Class carriage diagrams explicitly annotated as being excursion stock are the twenty-one 49ft Diagram 131 and the six 49ft Diagram 132. The listing shows a reduction occurred to the number of Diagram 108 and 109s in service during the half year to June 1910, from twenty-eight to twenty-five. No explanation is given, but looking at the listing for Diagram 63 Composites the number increased from nineteen to twenty-one at the same time. It is harder to discern a change to Diagram 64 since the listing is shared with Diagram 146 and 160, but at the same time the numbers increased from thirty four to thirty five. Were two Diagram 108 converted back to Diagram 63 and one Diagram 109 converted back to Diagram 64? We'd probably need a photograph in service to reveal that but none is known to exist.

This reveals that company records and drawings are fallible things. Humans make errors, including those of omission. While it is documented that several carriages were converted to Third Class and accepted to have occurred, what is not acknowledged is that three may have been converted back to Composites around nine years later! So often, matters relating to the railway are not cast in stone. So much for my opinion that five First Class compartments might have been over-provision! This revelation about potential converting back six years after the period in which they ran on North Tyneside commuter trains indicates that somebody in the traffic department wanted two more Composites with five First Class compartments along with one having three First Class compartments and preferred not to resort to new building to achieve it.

Beneath the listing for the Diagram 131 is one for the Diagram 177 and 178, which has the hand-written annotation "new design, cheap". While the 178 was an elliptical roof design (one hundred and eighty-five examples built 1909 - 1912), the single carriage built to Diagram 177 (no. 1739) during March 1909, was an arc roof one. Examining the drawing indicates that they are the same up to the cantrail level. I wonder if somebody in the company felt during 1908 that, with the impending authorisation of a build of over one hundred Third Class carriages that revisiting an arc roof design was a means to save money on building carriages for use on local trains? Evidently it did not persuade the traffic managers, since it remained a single example and several months later the Diagram 178 began to emerge from the works with elliptical roofs. Number 1739 was possibly the last arc roof carriage built. A "last huzzah" for sure.
 
Last edited:
49ft Elliptical Roof Carriages

Thanks Rob

The Diagram 178s in ex-works and weathered N.E.R. livery.





Of the three hundred and thirty-six 49ft Ordinary Third Class carriages on N.E.R. stock at the close of 1912, one hundred and eighty-four of them were Diagram 178s.
This makes them the most common 49ft carriage and a vehicle many Third Class passengers travelling locally would have seen on a daily basis.
There were one hundred and thirty-four 49ft Van Thirds on stock at the same point in time, while 49ft Composites amounted to sixty-eight carriages and the 49ft Van Composite type merely five carriages.

At the same point in time, December 1912, by way of comparison there were no less than 895 six-wheel 32ft Ordinary Thirds and two hundred and seventy-nine Van Thirds, yet by the time of the July 1926 NE Area Carriage Roster they were almost completely absent from the listings. In contrast, Howlden era six-wheelers could still be found in use (albeit in small numbers) on former GNR lines in Lincolnshire at the close of WWII.
 
Last edited:
1914 49ft Arc Roof Carriages

Further to the N.E.R. 49ft Arc Roof ordinary carriages. The British Railway Journal Special NER Edition has a chapter on these carriages and the Gould coupling. The chapter does not just concentrate on the coupling but gives some useful information and has some splendid shots of arc roof carriages. These are shots I have previously not seen. One, from the M.R. Grocock collection, is taken from the south end of the High Level bridge circa 1914-22 and clearly has a Diagram 178 elliptical roof Third added at the rear as a strengthener. What is not remarked upon is that the set is not, exactly, either a Link A or Link B set. This is because two carriages, the second and third in the consist, are actually six wheeled carriages, possibly a pair of 32ft Thirds to Diagram 15 (built between 1885 and 1895). If it is a three-carriage Newcastle Link A then the carriages are strengtheners and someone has gone to the trouble of placing the six-wheelers inside the leading Brake Third. If the set is meant to be a Newcastle Link B set, then the substitution might be caused by a failure of the rostered carriage and the six-wheelers were readily available.





I might scan the image and try to determine if the six-wheelers are substituting for the 49ft Third or substituting for the 49ft Composite. That would mean that the six wheelers could be a Diagram 2 First plus Diagram 15 Third or even two Diagram 10 Composites. There are several possible variations.
 
LNER 61ft6in Thompson Deal BG Diagram 327

A work in progress by Paulztrainz for me, the LNER 61ft6in Thompson Deal BG to Diagram 327. Still a ways to go but a useful and distinctive vehicle. 53 were built between 1944 and 1946 and though they were quickly cascaded to secondary and lesser services upon the arrival of the later Thompson BG to Diagram 344 some went on to have quite long lives compared to their other Thompson cousins. One was captured at Crewe during 1970 wearing BR Corporate Rail Blue livery.

Steve Banks has an article on them on his website.



Guard's ducket on one side only (I don't think that they often had a guard in them after cascading to lesser services).



Some detailing and tweaks are still necessary, but looking forward to running it attached to a secondary express or in BR Carmin/BR Maroon as part of a parcels train. At least one even carried lined maroon livery.

Several found their way to the Southern Region during BR days, where their 61ft6in length was particularly suitable for newspaper traffic. One shot from the Steve Banks site has one bringing up the rear of a train near Weybridge during 1965.
 
Last edited:
All very interesting Frank. That unusual consist just goes to show that in the case of equipment failure all manner of unlikely combinations of coaches might have been put together in the carriage yards to keep the passenger service running on schedule.
 
Chris30g - it is a Gresley RB Diagram 258 - as built for the 1938 Flying Scotsman set and later, during the early 1950s rebuilt internally.



KotangaGirl - the carriages are in a siding and are placed to do some height comparisons. I have a range of BGs, from the 46ft6in Clerestory roof ECJS ones, via the 56ft6in ECJS elliptical roofed ones and 61ft6in LNER ones through to the 63ft Thompson Diagram 344s. The clerestory roof examples fell by the wayside during the 1920s but the 56ft6in BGs soldiered on for quite some time, lasting until the late 1950s in parcels traffic. During LNER days several 56ft6in and 61ft6in examples could be found at either or even both ends of a secondary express or ordinary passenger train moving mail, parcels or newspapers. This was the main way such traffic was moved along the East Coast Main Line and there were very few "parcels trains" until BR days, when this train became more widespread. In both LNER and BR days (at least up to the early 1970s) a wide variety of vans could be seen in use. Older vans found a home away from the "glory days of their youth" in principal expresses by moving parcels traffic in their old age.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top