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Thread: North East England - Steam Days Screenshots - Large Screenshots Possible

  1. #481
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    Post #480 shot 1 by borderreiver is superb, really atmospheric of the locale and era!

    Thanks for the continuing story and interesting dialogue.

    Rob.

  2. #482
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    NER - Passenger Engine Workings 1st July to 30th September 1908
    and
    LNER - Carriage Roster from 19th July 1926 until further notice.

    Quote Originally Posted by borderreiver View Post
    Hello Jack, re post #467 - which booklets do you refer to? I may or may not have them. If you know the engine shed it probably needs a shed allocation record to work out which engine was assigned to the duty. If you are looking at pregrouping/Pre-WWI rosters then data is thin on the ground. Yeadon's only starts his shed allocations in 1923 but sometimes the RCTS Volumes mention some general allocations.
    JackDownUnder

  3. #483
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    Hello Robd - Thanks for the comments in post #481.
    Hello JackDownUnder - I have the 1926 roster but not the 1908 Passenger Engine workings. However, I will trawl through Yeadon's to see what I can determine regarding engines he records as being allocated to Starbeck shed during July 1926. This will not be a full picture, since the records themselves may contain errors and there were of course visiting engines, since not every passenger or goods service visiting Harrogate was hauled by a Starbeck engine. Once I have trawled for Starbeck shed I will look at Leeds Neville Hill shed and at York shed, though I think it is safe to say that neither Gresley's A1 pacifics, former N.E.R. A2 pacifics, former GNR C1 Atlantics nor former N.E.R. C6/C7 atlantics were frequent visitors to Harrogate during 1926. however, during 1926 you may be able to explain a C6 or C7 appearing at the head of an express goods via the old Leeds Northern route due to being dispaced from top link by a a newly arrived Gresley A1 arriving at York shed, or an A1/A2/C6/C7 turning up in the district due to a diversion caused by engineering work/an accident along the E.C.M.L.

    Here's a rare nugget for you, two Midland Railway Class 1532 Johnson 0-4-4T allocated to Starbeck shed (MR Code 29H) up to May 1908 - #1638 & 1642.
    Source www.brdatabase.info
    Also that an N.E.R. Class W 4-6-0T #694 allocated to Starbeck Apr 1908 - Dec 1923. Rebuilt to 4-6-2T May 1915.
    Source RCTS Vol 7, Yeadons Vol 21 & www.brdatabase.info
    Masham shed was allocated N.E.R. "A" Class 2-4-2T #1599 (L.N.E.R. Class F8) up to 1923. Source Yeadons Vol 38.
    Pateley Bridge shed was allocated N.E.R. "O" Class 0-4-4T #1839 (L.N.E.R. Class G5) up to 1923, then to Masham. Source Yeadons Vol 38.
    Last edited by borderreiver; June 15th, 2019 at 08:40 AM.

  4. #484
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    Hello JackDownUnder

    Starbeck Shed (Code SBK) July 1926 - Sources Yeadon's Register, RCTS Locomotives of the LNER and brdatabase.info

    L.N.E.R. Classes
    A7 - #1114, #1170, #1182, #1193

    B13 - #2006, #2008

    D17/2 - #1922

    D20 - #2020

    D21 - #1238, #1241, #1242

    D22 - #1533, #1541, #1545

    D23 - #274, ( plus #1120 from ? to 10/25 )

    G5 - #149, #439, #529, #1775, #1912, #1915, #2090, #2091, #2092

    G6 - #108 (to 11/26, replaced by #63), #334, #1020
    H1 - #1500, #1520 (to 8/26 with #1531 replacing it), #1528, #1530, #2161,

    J21 - #22, #470, #510, #556, #1549 (5 Saturated+Westinghouse) #579, (1 Superheated+Westinghouse)

    J26 - #1674, #1773, #517, #831,

    J27 - #1025, #1044,

    J77 - #276, #166

    N8 - #218, #267, #345*, #348, #861 ( 3/26-6/26 ), #1165* 2 locos marked *steam brake goods locos, other 4 Westinghouse brake.

    Q5 - #1708, #1717

    Fifty-four locomotives, the largest of which were the two B13 4-6-0s and two Q5 0-8-0s. The shed had no less than nine G5 04-4-Ts along with three G6 0-4-4Ts (on steam autotrains) with five H1 4-4-4T for some of the heavier local passenger trains. Smaller 4-4-0 tender locomotives were present with single examples each of D17/2, D22 and D23. The larger 4-4-0 tender locomotives represented with a single D20 and no less than three D21s.

    the J21 0-6-0s should not be underestimated. All six were fitted with Westinghouse brake and while five were equipped with saturated boilers, one was superheated. They would have been at home on both goods and passenger services, with the superheated one especially suited to passenger duties. Four of the N8s also had Westinghouse brakes, though they were still largely on empty carriage workings and station pilot duties during the 1920s, rather than local passenger trains. I don't discount one being put to use on such a duty in the event of non-availibility of another fitted engine though.
    Last edited by borderreiver; June 15th, 2019 at 04:52 PM. Reason: more to say

  5. #485
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    Hello JackDownUnder

    Leed Neville Hill Shed (Code NEV) July 1926 - Sources Yeadon's Register, RCTS Locomotives of the LNER and brdatabase.info

    L.N.E.R. Classes
    A7 - #1180, #1183, #1185

    B13 - #750, #753, #762, #2006, #2008,

    B15 - #819,

    B16 - #924, #929, #931, #1380

    C7 - #2201, #2203, #2207, #2210,

    D17 - #1877, #1905, #1908, #1923 - All D17 Part 2

    D18 - #1869, #1870

    D20 - #725, #1026, #2011, #2026, #2103, #2108, #2109,

    D21 - #1237, #1243, #1244,

    D23 - #472

    F8 - #72, #674, #801, #1602,

    G5 - #1884,

    H1 - #1326, #1518, #1520 (from 8/26 ex-SBK), #1531 (8/26 to SBK), #2143, #2147

    J21 - #806, #1567, #1596, #1805, #1806 (5 Saturated+Westingh) #619, #300, #1569, #1808, #1814 (5 Superheated+Westingh)

    J25 - #1723, #1970, #1977, #2034, #2067,

    J26 - #543,

    J27 - #1213, #2357

    J71 - #278

    J72 - #512, #516

    J76 - #197, #198

    J77 - #71, #1313, #1462

    N8 - #213 Westinghouse fitted – used as carriage pilot?

    N10 - #429, #1132, #1317 All Westinghouse fitted – used as carriage pilots?

    Q6 - #1257, #1261, #2280, #2282, #2298

    My mistake, missing out a C7 and D17/2 allocation. Seventy-nine locomotives with four C7 4-4-2 Atlantics and ten 4-6-0 types, but four of them are the newest Raven 3-cylinder B16s. I think that now I have found the C7 allocation that four were there in order to haul the Liverpool to Newcastle expresses, and possibly the Leeds to Glasgow express via York, at least as far as Newcastle. The large D21s could have hauled the Liverpool expresses bound for Hull. B13, B15 and B16 could all work express goods trains, either via York or via Ripon. A B16 could deputise for a failed or unavailible C7 if necessary.

    There are not as many passenger tank engines as at Starbeck, but class F8 is present to haul lighter local trains rather than G5, which only has one member there. The H1s have five, the same as Starbeck. I have a feeling that Harrogate local passenger trains were their forte.

    The presence of ten J21, half of which have superheated boilers gives the class scope for hauling several local passenger services ( They certainly were doing it out of Newcastle in 1921, with six 49ft coaches behind a J21 southbound at Low Fell in Yeadon's ).

    Eight large goods 0-6-0s of J25/J26/J27 and five 0-8-0 Q6 show that some heavy goods work was to be found locally, which is reinforced by the presence of three A7 4-6-2T.
    Last edited by borderreiver; June 16th, 2019 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Missed a C7 and D17/2 Allocation. Late discovery of some veteran J76

  6. #486
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    Many thanks for the clarification. My own research has culminated in this Engine allocations for Starbeck to 1930 which is the period that I am constructing.
    JackDownUnder

  7. #487
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    Default Engine Sheds

    Here is York Shed, by far the largest in its time. Obviously goes with the large mineral receiving yard.
    https://www.trainzportal.com/mytrain...post_id=118877
    https://www.trainzportal.com/mytrain...post_id=118878
    Here is Neville Hill Shed
    https://www.trainzportal.com/mytrain...post_id=118879
    Here is Selby Shed
    https://www.trainzportal.com/mytrain...post_id=118880
    JackDownUnder

  8. #488
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    Hello Jack.

    York is indeed a large shed and when picking out suitable locomotives to operate passenger, goods and mineral services through to Harrogate it is the sheer choice which will be a challenge. With York being the junction it was you have E.C.M.L. traffic, the "old main line" to Normanton, the line to Leeds, the Scarborough and Hull branches, the relatively light local traffic to wayside stations on the E.C.M.L as well as the Harrogate branch. The N.E.R. Road Wagon rosters for 1917 gives us a view in to the local goods services radiating from York. Back in 1926 the E.C.M.L. to the north was still predominantly a double track line. The L.N.E.R. expansion of the 1930s had not yet happened. This will mean that there was a lot more traffic along the old Leeds Northern route via Ripon. Just how much would have come off the Leeds Northern at Starbeck and then taken the line to York via Knaresborough I am not sure.

  9. #489
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    Hello JackDownUnder

    here is my listing of the allocations at York shed for July 1926.

    York Shed @ July 1926, code YRK: - 148 locomotives

    L.N.E.R. Classes


    A7 - 2 - #1113, #1195


    B13 - 5 - #744, #761, #766, #775, #2005,


    B14 - 1 - #2115,


    B15 - 9 - #787, #788, #797, #799, #813, #817, #821, #822, #823,


    B16 - 27 - #844, #845, #847, #848, #849, #908, #911, #921, #923, #927, #933, #936, #942, #1371, #1374, #1377, #2364, #2366, #2368, #2370, #2372,
    #2373, #2374, #2376, #2378, #2380, #2382,

    C1 - 2 -
    #4424, #4447,

    C2 - 1 - #3986, - this loco is described a allocated to "York", not described as allocated to "York G.N.R." applying to two other former G.N.R C2 Atlantics.

    C6 - 6 - #532, #698, #699, #702, #1680, #1792,


    C7 - 23 - #706, #716, #717, #721, #727, #729, #2163, #2164, #2165, #2166, #2167, #2168, #2169, #2170, #2171, #2172, #2195, #2198, #2199, #2202,
    #2204, #2206, #2208


    D2 - 4 - #4372, #4387, #4396, #4180,

    D3 - 1 - #4348,

    D20 - 13 - #707, #711, #712, #713, #1232, #1260, #1665, #1672, #2018, #2021, #2022, #2027, #2101,

    G6 - 2 - #63, #255,


    J21 - 8 - #34, #534, #1596, #1803, #1804 – Sat+W #807, #1516, #1807 – Sup+W

    J24 - 1 - #1844,

    J25 - 4 - #1973, #1989, #1991, #2068,

    J26 - 7 - #412, #442, #525, #554, #818, #1130, #1200,

    J27 - 2 - #2342, #2383,

    J71 - 8 - #237, #347, #399, #1085, #1134, #1140, #1167, #1758,

    J72 - 11 - #500, #1720, #1746, #2307, #2309, #2313, #2328, #2331, #2332, #2333, #2334,

    J77 - 7 - #138, #324, #999, #1000, #1346, #1348, #1431,

    K3 - 3 - #39, #52, #53,

    T1 - 1 - #1656

    York shed, the former N.E.R. shed at the large E.C.M.L. junction station had an immense allocation of locomotives in July 1926. There is a challenge when considering York against the N.E.R.A.'s reproduction of the L.N.E.R. N.E. Area Carriage Roster of July 1926 since it was a N.E. Area publication dealing with L.N.E.R. N.E. Area stock working within the area, stock from the area working out of the area to "foreign parts" and "foreign" stock working from outside the area with a destination at a N.E. Area station. Any passenger trains whose consist neither started in the N.E.Area nor finished within it is completely invisible, immediately removing all East Coast workings between Kings Cross and Scotland. You won't find the 1926 L.N.E.R. Flying Scotsman set in the N.E. Area 1926 carriage roster book.

    With one hundred and seventeen of the one hundred and forty-eight locomotives being tender engines there is a considerable weighting towards longer distance trains. This is no surprise with York being a main changeover point for locomotives working along the East Coast Main Line since the first line reached the city.

    There are some surprises though. York has no allocation of any eight-coupled goods/mineral tender locomotive, despite the large yards located to the west of the main passenger station. The vast L.N.E.R. pool of O4 2-8-0s saw members of the class visiting daily from the south but none were allocated to York shed in the 1920s. There is a commensurate lack of any former N.E.R. eight-coupled 0-8-0 of Class Q5, 6 or 7 allocated to York in 1926. the vast loose-coupled mineral and goods traffic to and from the north of the city would appear to have been largely in the charge of visiting locomotives. Newport Yard on Tees-side, with Croft Spa yard near Darlington on the E.C.M.L were the two "hubs" for this traffic. The nearest sheds to each were Newport and Darlington.

    Twenty-nine Atlantic 4-4-2 locomotives formed a core of "top link" engines for working E.C.M.L. express passenger trains as far as the next locomotive changeover point at Newcastle. This work was shared with visiting locomotives bringing E.C.M.L trains south from Newcastle. Gateshead shed being the majority source, with Heaton shed the minority partner. Additionally, three former G.N.R. Atlantic 4-4-2s and five former G.N.R. 4-4-0s are allocated to York, for services to the south. A further two C2 Alantic 4-4-2s, not shown here, are described as allocated to "York G.N.R.".

    Forty-two 4-6-0 tender locomotives were on shed, with twenty-seven being the newest Raven 3-cylinder B16. This provides a large pool for fitted express goods trains, and as with the passenger services, this allocation will share duties between York and Newcastle with Gateshead and Heaton locomotives which have brought trains south.

    Former N.E.R. 4-4-0s are represented solely by the thirteen D20s. At the grouping there were also several D21s, but these were transferred away during 1924 and 1925. Other former N.E.R. 4-4-0s were seen in the York area, particularly on the Scarborough line, but they were not York engines. The D20s would be suitable for most secondary and local passenger services radiating from York and had a very long association with York, right from their arrival at the end of the 19th century. Even at York, the 0-6-0 tender engine is present, with eight J21 having Westinghouse brakes, three of which were the superheated version. The remaining twenty-two 0-6-0 tender engines were goods tender engines, of classes J24 to 27. Gresley's K3 2-6-0s were new arrivals at York.

    Tank engines are dominated by the shunting engines. Twenty-six 0-6-0T of classes J71, J72 and J77 would be working right across the York district, with some Westinghouse brake fitted engines on station pilot duties. The single Class T1 was a shunting monster, though it was assisted by the two A7s, which also were powerful goods tanks. Passenger tank engines are represented merely by two elderly G6 0-4-4Ts, employed on former N.E.R. Steam Autocars. As with other services, if you saw a local passenger train at York in charge of a tank engine then it was most likely a visiting locomotive.

    Last edited by borderreiver; June 17th, 2019 at 03:20 AM. Reason: Formatting

  10. #490
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    Default 1960 Darlington - Up Summer Saturday Relief

    Northeast England during the steam era. Darlington station in the summer of 1960. 60526, A2 Class 4-6-2 Sugar Palm is at the head of a Summer Saturday Up ECML relief express.





    Above, Sugar Palm is in BR Green with a late crest and will be withdrawn from York North shed in November 1962.
    Heading the train is a Gresley 61'6" BG to diagram 43. Gresley built twenty-nine carriages to this diagram between 1924 and 1929.



    Above, passenger accomodation at the head of the train is a Thompson 63' BCK to Diagram 345. Forty were built between 1947 and 1950.





    Towards the head of the train is E1852E, a Gresley 66' RB to Diagram 258, as rebuilt in 1953 to resemble Diagram 167. This is a pedigree carriage, one of two built for the Flying Scotsman set of 1938 riding on Heavy Duty bogies with Stones pressure ventilation and, though superseded by the Thompson carriages in 1948, returned to the Flying Scotsman in 1951/52 when the Thompson 1948 set was allocated to the new "Capitals Limited" service. Catering vehicles tended to lead long lives and were some of the last pre-BR carriages to be scrapped.

    The train will change engine at York and the fireman will be glad to get there. The A2s were nicknamed "Miner's Friends" due to having a greater appetite for coal than either the Peppercorn A1s, Gresley A3s or Gresley A4s. That an A2 found its way on to the front of the express passenger train rather than hauling its usual fare of express goods must mean there is a heavy passenger demand. Some New England or Grantham men who had worked to Newcastle and found their return duty involved an A2 were known to report a problem with the A2 in order to take Darlington's standby A3 pacific for the dash across the Plain of York!
    Last edited by borderreiver; June 17th, 2019 at 07:33 PM.

  11. #491
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    Hello Borderreiver, just a quick question. Are those Gresley coaches the same as Andi06's or, did you have them made? They look really great. Thanks, Chris.

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    Hello Chris - the coaches were built for me by Paul Mace of Paulztrainz some time ago, but I have recently been doing a bit of updating, tinkering with the liveries to have BR carmine, BR carmine & cream and BR maroon to more closely match the liveries of mike10's BR Mk 1 coaches. Paul built me a lot of Thompson coaches and I can produce the Flying Scotsman/The Capitals Limited/The Elizabethan from 1947 right through to the late 1950s. I have the Gresley 66ft Diagram 258 in its original form in teak and carmine & cream as well as its internally rebuilt form in carmine & cream and maroon. All the coaches are available through Paul.

    I also asked edh6 if he would build a L.N.E.R. BCK, since I thought that it was a carriage type missing from the late Andi06's range of L.N.E.R. corridor coaches and it was a much-used type for portioned working, of which there were many. Edh6 managed to kindly find some time and, as usual, did a splendid job, though it is not in the above screenshots.
    Last edited by borderreiver; June 18th, 2019 at 09:59 AM.

  13. #493
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    Good work with the Gresley/Thompson coaches, borderreiver.

    Rob.

  14. #494
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    Hello Border - Thank you for the information. Very kind of you to help with the this. Many thanks. Chris.

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