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Thread: North East England - Steam Days Screenshots - Large Screenshots Possible

  1. #466
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    I own a good few of Paul's NE locomotives Rob and I have to say that the later ones, - which were mostly commissioned by Frank, - are a lot better than his earlier digital models. As a former coarse scale 'O' gauge modeller I compare Paul's locos to being like the best of the tinplate era locos from such as Bassett Lowke whereas these days a lot of folk expect the same quality of appearance and accuracy as the RTR plastic models available today.
    Particular favourites of mine in my collection of Paul's models are his E5, J21 and J22.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.

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  2. #467
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    I utilise Paul's stock where they fit into my route era and the engine sheds associated with my route. The era is pre WW1. I have recently purchased some of the NERA library booklets amongst which is the shed engine numbers which commence from(1).... to (?). These numbers do not indicate the engine type. Does anyone have information regarding these numbers and which engine they refer to.
    JackDownUnder

  3. #468
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    Hello Robd, re post #465. The NER and LNER models I have commissioned from Paul have mostly been based on drawings from Isinglass, with information from the RCTS Volumes "The Locomotives of the LNER" (I have the full set) and relevant volumes of Yeadon's. They are accurate but in some instances are not the whole story of the class. For example, I am debating about commissioning the T2 0-8-0 in its post-1932 LNER and BR days as Class Q6 with the tenders which originally were paired with the NER Z Class Atlantics. This is because when I commissioned the original T2/Q6 it was with the original tenders. The situation gets complicated post-1937 when tenders previously paired with Class S2 (B15) start appearing (when some Q6 self-trimming tenders went to class D49 so their tenders could go on to Class V2) and post-1948 tender swapping within Class Q6 became so chaotic to be almost anarchy. Really, to correctly model a Q6 during the BR era you either have to have access to a photo showing a tender type paired with the engine or say "to heck with it" and pair any one of the six or seven tender choices!

    The models are evolving, as are my own standards. Around a year ago I produced a HD set of letters and numbers for the locos and coaches and supplied them for Paul, so I would advise that you specify those, along with the correct sizing and spacing. I have asked for buffer numbers and shed codes to be placed but have stopped short of the small class stencilling since I am not certain it would work. Paul has produced improved head lamps, so again, I would advise that you specify the latest LNER/BR head/tail lamps. There is also an updated footplate crew with darker boilersuits. I also ask Paul to supply the latest brass and copper metallic finishes.

    Going forwards I know that a certain portion of work for the future is updating and upgrading the older models since it is eight years since I started ordering and commissioning from Paul. That is a big project.
    Last edited by borderreiver; June 2nd, 2019 at 06:53 PM. Reason: more to say

  4. #469
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    Hello Jack, re post #467 - which booklets do you refer to? I may or may not have them. If you know the engine shed it probably needs a shed allocation record to work out which engine was assigned to the duty. If you are looking at pregrouping/Pre-WWI rosters then data is thin on the ground. Yeadon's only starts his shed allocations in 1923 but sometimes the RCTS Volumes mention some general allocations.

  5. #470
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    Please don't get me wrong I like Paul's models. I have 95% of his mid-19th century range and might add one or two more items yet before I'm done. As to the rest of my collection I mostly have NER engines and coaches, L&Y class 28s in a variety of liveries, LMS Garratts and GWR Atlantics. I have a good number of Paul's 3ft gauge Colonial tank engines as well.
    And yes I do often mod Paul's models to suit what I want and that's what I like about them. They are a good basis upon which to build and changing to a different livery isn't difficult to do at all.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.

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  6. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by borderreiver View Post
    Hello Jack, re post #467 - which booklets do you refer to? I may or may not have them. If you know the engine shed it probably needs a shed allocation record to work out which engine was assigned to the duty. If you are looking at pregrouping/Pre-WWI rosters then data is thin on the ground. Yeadon's only starts his shed allocations in 1923 but sometimes the RCTS Volumes mention some general allocations.
    I know all the the relevant engine shed allocations but not the shed allocation record. I am not at home at the moment so will advise the booklets that I am referring to when I am home, two weeks.
    At the moment I take an educated guess for the passenger services, as I have some information for those engaged in minerals/ goods duties.
    Since Xmas I have been extending my route and incorporating some NERA permanent way data. Will send you a mini map when I return home.
    JackDownUnder

  7. #472
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    Hello Jack. I will watch out for them in a couple of weeks. Enjoy your travel. If you have a photograph of a service it makes things a lot easier. I recall sending you a shot taken circa 1913 of an N.E.R. local passenger service to Harrogate standing in a platform at Bradford Foster Square in the hands of an N.E.R. 4-4-0 tender engine. It certainly dispels the notion that local passenger services were just the dominion of tank engines.

    Generally.... York and Gateshead sheds accomodated the "top link" engines for services along the East Coast Main Line. Each new class of passenger engine went there and usually was rapidly relegated down the ranks as train weights grew and new designs arrived. Eventually they would fall far enough down the pecking order to be allocated out to "second rank" sheds at Darlington, Heaton, Hull Botanic Gardens and Leeds Neville Hill. Sometimes, relegation and transfer could take place very rapidly, such as happened to Tennant's 1463 Class 2-4-0, Worsdell's S Class 4-6-0 and Worsdell's R1 Class 4-4-0, which did not live up to expectations. The latter was built due to the rather muted reception of the V Class 4-4-2 Atlantics but with the R1 falling short Worsdell went on to produce the V/09 Class 4-4-2s (both V and V/09 becoming Class C6 at the grouping). All the N.E.R.'s 4-6-0s found themselves relegated to mixed-traffic engines despite early hopes to take over from the Atlantics. Even Raven's 3-cylinder S3 was designated from the start as a mixed traffic engine and earned most of their keep on express goods services along the E.C.M.L.

    I consider Heaton a second rank shed since it had relatively few turns going north or south on the ECML compared to Gateshead. Neville Hill was a secondary N.E.R. shed with only the Leeds to Newcastle sections of the Liverpool expresses to cover along with the Leeds to Newcastle leg of the Glasgow service and the passenger services along the old Leeds Northern line to Stockton/Middlesbrough/Sunderland. However, it did get new engines in the form of the N.E.R. Fletcher 901 Class 2-4-0 for those latter services.

    Starbeck had a small allocation of large passenger engines and a larger allocation of secondary passenger engines. The 25 years up to the grouping would see this latter allocation largely being the smaller 4-4-0 tender engines, though if you want to indulge yourself with a bit of "nostalgia" you can drop in the odd 4-2-0 from the 901, 1440 or 1463 classes of 2-4-0 and claim an out of the usual working has brought it down the old Leeds Northern, even as a pilot engine ( around 1905 the N.E.R. experimented with double heading ECML expresses with older 2-4-0s accompanying R Class 4-4-0s (D20). ). C Class 0-6-0s (J21) can be justified for longer some local passenger services. Local passenger trains can't really go wrong with Wilson Worsdell's O Class 0-4-4T (G5) of 1894. You can spice up the variety with TW Worsdell's A Class 2-4-2T (F8) for lighter local passenger or branch trains (Whitby, Hawes and Northallerton all had examples).

    After 1905 old Fletcher BTP 0-4-4Ts of 1870s vintage were paired with one or two Diagram 116 driving trailer composites to form autocars and the Harrogate to Knaresborough shuttle was one service they saw regular use on. An old 6-wheel Third could be used as a strengthener but at each end either a station pilot needed to be on hand to remove the 6-wheeler or in the absence of a pilot, the autocar would have to run round the 6-wheeler!

    Wilson Worsdell produced the W Class 4-6-0T in 1907/8 for heavier summer passenger services on the coastal line between Scarborough and Whitby but due to bridge restrictions along the coast they were first used in the Leeds and Harrogate area. Between 1914 and 1917 all ten were rebuilt to 4-6-2T (L.N.E.R. Class A6). Raven's D Class 4-4-4T (L.N.E.R. Class H1) arrived in 1913 and like the W Class saw use around Leeds, Harrogate, Whitby, Scarborough and Saltburn. Despite their power they were never popular and Gresley rebuilt them all to 4-6-2T as Class A8 during the 1930s.

    Goods work and mineral work would use one of a legion of 6-coupled tender engines (C Class (J21), P/P1/P2/P3 Classes (J24-7)). For variety press a Tennant 1490 class 0-6-0 in to service (though by grouping most were working as pilots on Empty Carriage Stock workings at larger stations). Shorter workings can use a 6-coupled tank engine (B, N or U Class 0-6-2Ts (N8-10) as well as Y Class 4-6-2T (A7)). Longer distance work along the Leeds Northern could justify Class S, S1, S2 or S3 4-6-0s. A very long mineral train can justify a Worsdell T/T1 0-8-0 or Raven T2 0-8-0, though most traffic from the Leeds district was towards Hull from collieries around Leeds/Selby.

    However.... Summer Saturdays and the perennial shortage of engines fitted with automatic train brake (Westingouse in N.E.R. days) would see almost anything and everything fitted with ATB pressed in to service to haul both excursion and Saturdays Only passenger trains. Author Steve Banks has mentioned repeatedly just how much train photography from steam days represents exactly this type of train - taken on a Summer Saturday by a relatively well-to-do individual on a day off (or vacation) because it was presenting something out of the ordinary! Photography was an expensive hobby, especially so pre-WWII.
    Last edited by borderreiver; June 4th, 2019 at 08:17 AM. Reason: note on summer trains

  8. #473
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    Thanks Frank, lot to absorb as usuel. Some of it already confirms my selection of the F8's &G5's.
    Will study further when I return home.
    I was going to bring my PC however for the sake of harmony brought my guitar instead.
    JackDownUnder

  9. #474
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    Default 1948 Darlington Trip Freight

    North East England during the steam era. 1948 and the British Railways period has begun. Here, at the northern end of Darlington a venerable J77 0-6-0 has charge of a trip working to Croft Yard which principally has two ex-NER 42Ton Bogie Bolster C wagons to ex-NER Diagram D15. The original build was the 48 built at Gateshead between 1912 and 1914 with a fish belly underframe, plate bogies and 40 Ton rating. The second batch, 12 examples built at York during 1919 dispensed with the fish belly underframe, using a trussed underframe instead, this time mounted on diamond bogies but with the same 40 Ton rating. A final batch of 120 emerged from York between 1921 and 1923, built to the same pattern as the 1919 build. The five bolsters, at 7ft 11in wide were 5 inches wider than the body on all three builds and a shallow well was present set in to the wagon deck for stowage of the securing chain sets. I am a bit mystified as to why the N.E.R. chose to assign Diagram D15 to the second and third builds since there were significant differences between them and the original build.

    The L.N.E.R. assigned them the code 9140 and classed them as QUINT C from 1924. During WWII the load rating was increased to 42 Tons and the wagons reclassified as Bogie Bolster C. Of the 180 built up to 1923 164 were still in use at nationalisation. Several were taken and converted to Bogie Trestle wagons as Diagram E16.

    The wagons and loads are the work of Paul Mace of Paulztrainz.






  10. #475
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    Default 1917 - Durham Gilesgate Goods

    Northeast England during the steam era. 1917 and an N.E.R. 1440 Class 2-4-0 has been rostered to goods duties on the Durham Goods branch to the old Gilesgate station. This was Durham's first passenger station, built during the 1840s. It was quickly superseded when the Leamside to Bishop Auckland branch was built a decade or so later but was retained to handle goods traffic for the cathedral city.

    Before the N.E.R. diverted the East Coast Main Line via Durham and the team valley passengers from Durham had to change at Leamside station to catch main line express trains running along the old main line via Leamside and Washington. Luckily for porters leamside station was built as an island platform junction station with interchange in mind! During the 1840s and 1850s UK many passenger coaches still adhered to the old horse-drawn road coach practise of loading baggage on the roof. Many a porter earned their tip manhandling trunks, hatboxes and boxes between the platform and coach roofs!








  11. #476
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    Some very interesting assets here, posts #474 and #475 by borderreiever!

    Rob.

  12. #477
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    Default Summer 1919 at Durham Gilesgate

    Thanks Robd. A hundred years ago, during the summer of 1919, one of MacDonnell's "59" Class 0-6-0s is busy at Durham Gilesgate.







    Alexander MacDonnell only had a short tenure as Locomotive Superintendent, taking over from the retiring old hand Fletcher in 1882. He only produced two classes of engine for the N.E.R., his "59" Class 0-6-0 Goods Engine and the ill-received "38" Class 4-4-0 Express Passenger locomotive. The "38"s failed to impress and the N.E.R. locomotive crews, used to the ways of long-serving local man Fletcher, did not like MacDonnell. They raised complaints about the "38" Class and "59" Class. MacDonnell became marginalised when both Chairman John Dent and General Manager Henry Tennant intervened in negotiations with the workforce. MacDonnell resigned in 1884. The complaints about the "59"s subsided after MacDonnell's departure but the "38"s were quickly taken off the East Coast Main Line expresses. Forty-four "59"s were built during 1884 and 1885. Wilson Worsdell rebuilt the class from the mid-1890s onwards, completing the project in 1904. They were not as reliable. nor as powerful as Fletcher's "398" Class 0-6-0 but T.W. Worsdell's "C" Class 0-6-0 swept them from the main line. All of them survived to the grouping, spread widely across the N.E.R. and mainly on station pilot and carriage marshalling duties. Being fitted with Westinghouse brake meant that Summer Saturdays would see them on some excursion duties (Darlington and Newport Tees-side sheds each had 4 allocated). the L.N.E.R. classed them J22 but withdrawals began during 1924 and all were gone by 1930.

  13. #478
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    Excellent screenshots Frank and as always your posts are very informative too.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.

    HP XW8400 Xeon, Dual E5320 quad core CPUs, 16GB RAM, 1Tb SAS Hard drive, Nvidia GTX 960, Win 7.

  14. #479
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    Default Summer 1914 and a day on sand at Gilesgate

    Thanks Kotangagirl! Summer 1914 in North East England during the steam era. Two wagonloads of sand stand in a siding at Durham Gilesgate Goods station. A motor wagon waits to receive its frst load. If the workmen dreamt of spending a day on the sand I am sure that this is not the sand they had in mind. The beach at South Shields, Whitley Bay, Roker or Saltburn is for another day.

    There's eight tons of it in each of two Diagram C2 High Sided Goods wagons and the only way it will get in to the customer's motor wagon is by shovelling it in. They seem to be discussing something between themselves but have not noticed that the goods foreman is coming their way, no doubt to ask why they are not hard at work unloading the wagon! Sixteen tons of sand is going to take perhaps eight or even ten round trips of that motor wagon and it is not going to take a couple of minutes to either load it here or unload it at the builder's merchants.

    The N.E.R. built more than 23,000 high sided 4-plank goods wagons to Diagram C2 from the 1880s to the 1900s. From 1904 the N.E.R. added iron strapping to the sides and uprated some to 10 Tons capacity. Others gained an extra plank to be rediagrammed as C9, but the high tare weight compared to capacity was not a success, so the N.E.R. discontinued the project. At least one was marked up for Loco Coal, which I can only imagine was assigned to a lightly used branch somewhere given the 8 (or perhaps 10 Tons) capacity. 6-plank versions of the C2 were also turned out with cement lining for use as salt wagons. If you think that a capacity of 8 Tons was a shortcoming, remember that if a customer could provide a consignment of a mere 2 Tons for a single destination then the railway company would supply a wagon dedicated to that consignment. Smaller consignments, or consignments over 2 Tons for multiple destinations (where each destination received less than 2 Tons of the consignment) would go in to a "road wagon" and be transhipped at the district transhipment depot. Probably many consignments were just over the 2 Ton wagonload threshold and probably it was bulk loads such as sand, stone etc which were the ones most found to reach the wagon 8 Ton or 10 Ton limit.



    Last edited by borderreiver; June 12th, 2019 at 11:28 AM.

  15. #480
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    Default 1914 Durham Gilesgate T:ANE

    Some shots of Gilesgate in T:ANE. On the desktop with the GTX970 a lot more detail is possible. Durham main line station and the cathedral are both visible.




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