Maps of the 4 standard routes and 4 deluxe added routes

xmontero

New member
Hi all,

I am considering to buy the Trainz (a new era) and I'm doubting between the standard and the deluxe edition.

I would want to ensure that the routes are not just linear, but are complex networks, so you have dozens of thousands of hours of gameplay there in the same map. I am willing to have like "many routes inside a single map" and not have to do the very same route everytime I load a map. As far as I understand there are 4 maps in Standard and 4 more maps in the Deluxe.

I've been looking at videos in youtube and info on the routes but I can't understand if the routes are a) rather "linear" (from here to there, with junctions at stations) or are rather b) a star (3 or 4 "main" locations in the map) or more like a "web" (many networked cities with different routes to go from here and there) so junctions allow you to travel to a new world in the same map.

So, further than the promo videos, I'd lilke if it is possible to see high-resolution "maps" of all 8 routes to decide "how fun" those maps will be. Ideal resolution would comprise all the map in an image in a detail so you can see railyards or main lines duplicating into secondary lines when approaching stations and so. All I need is to see the "complexity" of the Standard scenarios and the same for the "Deluxe" add-on scenarios.

Are those maps at some place that I can look at?

Thanks to all you that help me decide.
Xavi.
 
Standard V Deluxe edition

Personally, I don't really think that much of the inbuilt game routes.

It is a case of personal taste though.
I have the Deluxe edition.
I wouldn't buy the Deluxe edition for the extra routes themselves.

But when you get those routes you do get content (locos wagons and scenery and so on) that are a part of those routes, you can't get that exact content elsewhere. (It's deemed to be payware)
There are lots of free routes available on the Download Station (and elsewhere).
Many of those routes are far superior than the ones that come with the game. IMHO.
MSGSapper and philskene are two builders that come to mind immediately.
I love their routes.
Many of the makers of those free routes use content that is from the DLX version.

If you only have the standard edition you will find you will have to replace assets that are missing from the free routes because you don't have them. (because those assets are from the extra routes in the Deluxe edition.)

You will probably need to consider getting a FCT.
It gives you speeded up access to the download station.

Without an FCT its simply too slow to download any large amount of content (such as a Route) from the DLS


My recommendation is that you should seriously consider getting the DLX version... but not for the reasons that you expressed.

You can use the included routes while you get used to the intricacies of the game.

Then when you do get used to the game, buy a FCT.... remember though, it's timed, so if you buy one that lasts for a month, don't buy it and activate it and not use it, because it will just expire and you wont get any value out of it.

That said you can buy the FCT and activate it when you are ready.
The time only starts when you activate it.
When you get the FCT, download all of the routes by MSGSapper and philskene for a start.

If you are able to get all of their routes and accompanying sessions before your FCT expires you will have enough to keep you going for ages.

It appears to me that Phil likes to set sessions for his routes but Bob (MSGSapper) seems to prefer to make the route and maybe one session then its up to you to make your own sessions after that.
Its just different ways that the two gentlemen like to do it.
Both work very well.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
Paul.
 
Hi Xavi --

Unfortunately there is no easy way to make a map of a T;ANE route.

However, for the layout of mine that is include in the Deluxe T:ANE there is this video which begins with on overhead view showing the track layout (watch full screen and at 1080p):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfBo57rTgrU

Be advised, though, that the layout that's shown in the video is the TS12 version - the T:ANE version has track with procedural junctions, high detail textures and a few other changes.

One of the challenges in the sessions for this layout is to work the yards and proceed from one yard to the next while AI traffic also uses the line.

See also this thread:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...-Bidye-Traction-documentation&highlight=bidye

Hmm -- I also did a quick search and found this untextured version of the layout showing the AI trainz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_g2b10BHE

and this showing only the AI - going both ways - that you interact with:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8vTDUic81Q

I hope this is useful.

Phil
_____

Edit:

Hi Paul --

Thanks for those kind words.


"If you only have the standard edition you will find you will have to replace assets that are missing from the free routes because you don't have them. (because those assets are from the extra routes in the Deluxe edition.)"

My layouts might be the only exception to this - I make them in the Standard Version of T:ANE so that everybody can use them without missing dependencies.
 
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Hi Paul --

Thanks for those kind words.

...... you will find you will have to replace assets that are missing from the free routes

My layouts might be the only exception to this - I make them in the Standard Version of T:ANE so that everybody can use them without missing dependencies.

Hi Phil... How have you been enjoying your Quiche?:hehe:
I need to be more careful to avoid generalizations.....:eek:

.... you may find you may have to replace assets that might be missing from the free routes ....
Paul
 
First of all thanks Paul and Phil.

So, Paul, I'll take your advise on focusing on the routes in the Download Station, that is a great discovery. I mean... I didn't know that there was such a kind of thing and I thought you could only play with the 8 builtin-routes. I understand now that DownloadStation is some kind of market place where users share the content they create.

Appart from the FCT, is that DownloadStation content free or each "uploader" sets a price to his work?

Other thing: I've filtered by "T:ANE" and "Layouts" seeked for the two nicknames you posted, and I see there are a bout 20 routes in total between Phil and Bob. The layouts of Phil tend to be less than 1MB each. Bob's layouts easily surpass 6MB and one of them reach 32MB. Is that because Phil is using referenced assets (either builtin, either in the DownloadStation, as said in his description) and Bob is like embedding textures or whatever? Or it is because Bob does routes with 32MB of "route data" because they are more complex in structure or whatever?

More on that: For the <1MB it is still worth a FCT? If I don't get the 30-days FCT, do I still get the chance to "download something" (even if slow) or I must pay necessarily to get something?

More questions yet: This rather directed to Phil. First of all Phil let me thank your great work in advance. What I can't get yet is if you are a "user" of the Trainz or you work for them... I mean... On one side, the second link you have posted talks about some kind of PDF you created about the Bidye. On the other sidde your layouts in the Download Stations seem to happen to be like a "model on a table in a room" and that Bidye seems so also to be like that. In addition the videos you posted are in your youtube channel, so I am not clear on if you shooted and uploaded the videos or they are thirdparty and you just referenced them, but if they are yours seem to be "while the bidye was under construction" (unless there is an option to "undress" a route or layout) and those videos can be shooted by any normal user. So to a newbie like me seems you "did" the Bidye that is in the T:ANE Deluxe.

In addition (I think it is the last question): Is it any way to understand what are the dependencies of the things in the Download Station before purchasing the game? I mean: Phil explicitly says "my layouts are based on the buil-in or the content available in the DownloadStation" -that explanation in the layout page does not say if the standard or deluxe but he has clarified that here in his answer- but what about Bob's layouts for example? Do I have any way to check if the content will require me to have the Deluxe? Or I may go with the Standard?

Maybe those are too many questions, but I think I'm gonna enjoy a lot (I loved trainz since I was a kid) and I want to choose the right choice.

Thanks!
Xavi.
 
Answers

Hi Xavi, Ill try to answer your questions to the best of my knowledge. Its not too many questions and asking them here and answering them here (in the forums) will mean that the answers are here for others to read who perhaps were wondering the same thing but were reticent to ask. (Also if I mistakenly tell you the wrong thing, someone can correct me)
I'll reference your question by quoting the relevant text.

DownloadStation is some kind of market place where users share the content they create.

Appart from the FCT, is that DownloadStation content free or each "uploader" sets a price to his work?

The Download station (DLS) is a repository created in the very early days of Trainz
(I'm not really sure of the history before I joined with TS12. It was there when I joined and I suspect it was here from the start.)
The DLS was created by the company that owned Trainz at the time and continues to be operated and maintained by the current owners, N3V.
It is a Market place I guess, but its included in your purchase of Trainz. Anything on the DLS that is available to your Registered version of Trainz is there to be downloaded by you at the click of a button. The only charge to access it is the cost of buying the game and your internet download charges if applicable.
You dont HAVE to have an FCT.
I guess you would have to ask the creators themselves WHY they do it . (I suspect that each would have different if somewhat overlapping reasons)
I think it probably basically comes down to wanting to be able to share what someone has created with other like minded people.

Bob is quite clear in his introductions to his routes that he gets his rewards from having screen shots of his routes posted in the relevant threads that he has created for them.

I must admit that although I have told him how much I like his routes I have been pretty slack in taking pictures and posting them for him. * Note to self... Must do that!!!*

There are some creators who choose to not put their stuff on the DLS and yet still make it available to users.
Some of those charge for their content (payware) and some don't charge .
The ones who wish to allow you to access their stuff on other places than the DLS (either payware or freeware) will provide a link to a web address where you can download the files as a .cdp file.
You then import that file into your version of Trainz.

The layouts of Phil tend to be less than 1MB each. Bob's layouts easily surpass 6MB and one of them reach 32MB....
I'm not too sure about the sizes of the routes I never really noticed that. I have never noticed that Phils routes download faster than Bobs.
I do find that having downloaded one route that a person has made, the second is often a lot faster because you already have a lot of the things that are in it because they reuse a lot.

When you start to build a route you start with a "board". I dont wish to over complicate it so I wont go in to more detail than that for now. A board is a standard size. if you want to make a route bigger, you can add more boards. Some routes are made of hundreds of boards.
Phil's routes are usually themed as being set in a basement or a garage ... on a table top. Usually only two or three boards.
Bobs are themed as being in the real world so the distances are larger.
So he uses more boards to make his routes.
I guess that is the reason for the larger file size.

More on that: For the <1MB it is still worth a FCT?
Try it and see before you get an FCT. If you dont have one you are not "locked in" to never being able to get one. It's simply a matter of buying one.

If I don't get the 30-days FCT, do I still get the chance to "download something" (even if slow) or I must pay necessarily to get something?
Most definitely! Once you pay for your copy of T:ane (Standard or Deluxe) you don't need to pay to download from the DLS.

Is it any way to understand what are the dependencies...
Objects in Trainz are created in 3d modeling software.
Those objects are placed in a route... they can be track, houses and other buildings, people, trains, wagons, and much more.
All of those things when placed in a route become a dependency.
The route needs them to be complete.

Think of it as if you had a model train layout in your basement. and on that layout you had, say, a model of a Railway Station.
If you were to give that layout to me, but not the station (say because you wanted it for a different project) there would be a hole there and I would need to do something to deal with that hole.
Its very similar in Trainz, only its all done with computer code.
Even the Railways stations in Trainz are really just computer code after all.

So, unless the creator specifically says that he has only created his route in a specific version of Trainz you will not have any way of knowing if you have the dependencies for it or not.

That was what I was getting at in my original reply, that my recommendation is to get the deluxe edition, if not really for the four extra routes themselves, but for the dependencies that come with them and so that you open your self to any routes created in standard as well as deluxe.

I hope this has helped you to get a better understanding of Trainz.
While I have been writing this I have been downloading MSGSappers Clinchfield route... and its finished now... so I'm gonna go and haul some coal!
Kind Regards,
Paul
 
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To add to Pauls post
All content on the DLS is free, downloading with an FCT is quicker and there is no restriction, without an FCT there is a 100MB per day limit and it is painfully slow.
Builtin Routes are mostly made by the same creators who make provide stuff for free and not always regular payware creators although they may get paid for a route included in a version of Trainz.
The size of the route is basically the actual terrain / number of boards and as said doesn't include the assets, which may total for a complex route a couple of Gigabytes of assets (Yes I'm guilty of that!) or a few hundred MB's for a small route, all the assets are downloaded separately. This is where the FCT comes in handy! Of course stuff you already have doesn't need downloading again so it gets less of an issue over time.
 
Thanks Paul and clam1952.

I think most probably I'll go for the Deluxe, to ensure I have all the assets that are not downloadable in the DLS, so if I want a route that uses that I'll have them.

Still doubting though. So any extra input is welcome.

In addition => Edit to my post:

I said
(I loved trainz since I was a kid)
while I wanted to say
(I loved trains since I was a kid)
, I'm at least 4 decades old and when I was a kid the Trainz didn't exist... was time of Commodore Vic20 and C64 and so hahaha.

I just wanted to mean that I was that kind of child that went to the junctions-controller-man to become friend of them and get them to get me to the tunnels and see those rail networks in a close-up while other passengers had prohibited to go down into the tunnels.

I was more freak of networks and signals and logics around "route blocks" so trains didn't crash, than freak about manufacturers of locos. But still a passionated of trains in general. In fact when I was asked at the school "what do you want to be when you are old" I used to repond "junction controller" :D - Just willing to clarify that the Z was a typo :D
 
Hi again Xavi,
I think as in most things, different people have different areas of interest.
I'm a Motor mechanic by trade, but soon after finishing my apprenticeship, I moved in to Plant operating.
Driving massive bulldozers and Front end loaders in the coal mines.
I'm in my 5th decade (not too far from my 6th).
I'm retired now.
My interest in real trains is in the mechanical side of it, however in Trainz, I also have an interest in routing but mainly from how it relates to A.I.

Ooops!!! I just realised that because you are not actually a Trainz owner yet you may not be aware of what I'm talking about.
Trainz has 2 ways of operating the trains.
There is "in cab" mode.... Phil says that this is the ONLY way that real men drive Trainz. ( This is a standing joke from him.)
The other way is what they call "DCC"
It's the way that is most similar to how a Model train layout in real life is operated.

An extension of DCC is to have more than one train running at the same time and have them controlled by A.I.
This is my preferred method of operation.

I like to set the trains up with all of the tasks that I want them to do and allow the Artificial Intelligence drivers sort their way out through the pinch points and so on.

I often have to take control of a train to clear a blockage but as I see it that would happen in a model set also.
Once I have cleared the problem I hand control back to the driver and I go back to just watching the action on the different parts of the track.
I hope you enjoy your purchase of T:ane.
I believe you have made the best decision in electing to go with the DLX version.
Cheers,
Paul
 
Hi Xavi --

More questions yet: This rather directed to Phil. First of all Phil let me thank your great work in advance.

Thanks. Appreciated.

What I can't get yet is if you are a "user" of the Trainz or you work for them...

If by "them" you mean N3V. No, I don't work for them.

While T:ANE was under development N3V asked for expressions of interest from the Trainz community for routes and content that could be included in it. I was working on that little traction route. It began as a demonstration of a route that showed how it was possible to have AI trainz running in both directions on a single track line with passing routes with a player also using the line. It then became a more fully developed route with yards and industries and then I got bitten by the model railroad bug so in final form it became a model layout.

N3V decided to use it but then took the decision to go Standard and Deluxe, with my layout in the Deluxe and also as a payware add-on. They did offer to pay me but I said I was just happy to contribute.

The bit that I disliked was the format N3V insisted upon for the sessions. I believe that Trainz is a simulation rather than a game (even for model railroad layouts) and in my routes and layouts I give instruction as would a Dispatcher or Yard Master. It then becomes the responsibility of the Player to decide how to best achieve the end result. The way N3V required it made it a game - a prescribed format with scoring.

I mean... On one side, the second link you have posted talks about some kind of PDF you created about the Bidye. On the other sidde your layouts in the Download Stations seem to happen to be like a "model on a table in a room" and that Bidye seems so also to be like that.

In the past I've done routes. But once the process for making a model railroad was "discovered" and revealed I realised that I'd actually been doing model railroads all along, even if some of them (PO&N, IndustRail, ... ) were very big in size. Model railroads became my focus once T:ANE was released.

I think it's no secret that one of the upcoming N3V payware releases will be model railroad themed. Several of my layouts will be included. I have also updated many of my TS12 routes to T:ANE layouts. Upload to the Download Station is pending.

In addition the videos you posted are in your youtube channel, so I am not clear on if you shooted and uploaded the videos or they are thirdparty and you just referenced them, but if they are yours seem to be "while the bidye was under construction" (unless there is an option to "undress" a route or layout) and those videos can be shooted by any normal user. So to a newbie like me seems you "did" the Bidye that is in the T:ANE Deluxe.

Yes, the Bidye is mine. As are all the youtube videos you will find with "philskene" as the uploader. Some of the videos also show how to use interactive industries. Others showcase locomotives or rolling stock.

In addition (I think it is the last question): Is it any way to understand what are the dependencies of the things in the Download Station before purchasing the game? I mean: Phil explicitly says "my layouts are based on the buil-in or the content available in the DownloadStation" -that explanation in the layout page does not say if the standard or deluxe but he has clarified that here in his answer- but what about Bob's layouts for example? Do I have any way to check if the content will require me to have the Deluxe? Or I may go with the Standard?

Well, I was around when a competing railroad simulator was released with different US and European versions. It meant that routes made in one version could not be used in the other because of missing dependencies. So when I construct a route I use the lowest common denominator - the Standard version with only built-in or DLS assets - then it can be universally used. And I make a statement to that effect.

I'd encourage others to do the same. And, if others do use dependencies that are not built-in or from the DLS I'd encourage them give a direct download link. Unfortunately most don't.

Phil
 
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The bit that I disliked was the format N3V insisted upon for the sessions. I believe that Trainz is a simulation rather than a game (even for model railroad layouts) and in my routes and layouts I give instruction as would a Dispatcher or Yard Master. It then becomes the responsibility of the Player to decide how to best achieve the end result. The way N3V required it made it a game - a prescribed format with scoring.Phil

Glad you mentioned this Phil........... This was the exact reason I did not follow thru with a very impressive, prototypical route submission. I was under the impression we were not to discuss these requirements, but perhaps I misread but also I don't remember the fine details of the requirements back almost three years ago I think now.... I am very glad it has been brought out as I feel as you do it takes away from being a true simulator......
 
Hi mcguirel --

" ... under the impression ... ." Hmm - I wasn't aware of that. And I've actually said something similar in these Forums before. Should I now be awaiting for N3V to come to knocking on my door to beat my wife and torture my dog? I'd really object to the second; but the first ... .

Luke_019_2_zpsdfdp8jl2.jpg~original


Xavi --

One final comment. You will generally find details of my routes in the Forums. The easiest way of finding my posts is to go into "Advanced Search" (top right of the Forum page) / Search Single ... / User Name = philskene + Find Threads Started / Search Forum(s) = Freeware Announcements.

You will find, for example:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?121241-T-ANE-model-trainz-the-Deepwater-Railroad-Co

Phil
 
Off topic... but funny

They say if you want to find out who really loves you, try locking your wife and your dog in the garage together for a few hours...
and see which one is happiest to see you when you let them out.
 
Hi all, hi Phil

Thanks for your great explanations.
Congrats for your work being selected to be included in the official game.

I've just played some sessions, also one of the bidye (in fact the only one I got 5 stars hahaha, in all the others I'm normally getting less points due to speed-excess, as I don't like the DCC and try to stick to the Real-Mode, and with heavy trains downhill I've not learned to brake with enough planning ahead - but that's another story).

I agree with the idea of getting the instructions and "you are free to get the result". In fact Today I was doing one SeasonTown and I was "suggested" by a green arrow to go via a certain main line (push-pull loco), but I wanted to take a side-track that later on just got merged again, just for fun... and I had to decouple the trailing loco to get it to "pick" the "green arrow" in the main line, otherwise it did not get "passed as an step" and was held as an sticky thing there behind.

Thanks for your explanations!!!

About routes vs models, okey, I am learning from your post that it is more like people call it "routes" when it models a real-world thing and "model" with it's like a fantasy world plenty of choices further than a single-long-line to drive thru, regardless it's placed on a table or over the world's floor. More than staying 30 mins just changing throttle from 3 to 4 and from 4 to 3, I like more those "models" where dozens of different things are close together so you need to play with all that... reverser, coupling, decoupling, throttle, brakes, and many things in a short period of time to get like a "puzzle" resolved.

In addition that I got your attention here, other couple of things:

1) Maybe you guys may help me here: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?129271-Realistic-mode-in-Season-Town-driving-Tram - Basically I don't know if there is a bug in the built-in session. I run the "realistic-mode" for the tramways and I see 0 psi of pressure available to transfer to the cylinder. so I go past the stations as I can't brake.

2) I got a steam loco uphill (>2% I think nearly 3%) at the "Frieght Run" session stuck in the middle of the ascent and unable to run a single millimeter. Tried cutoff at +75% and starting from power at 1% and slowly increassing. But completely stuck. If I reverse, it runs downhill. It probably is something related to the coal and water, I think. Maybe I'm having a cold fire and/or low pressure at the boiler. Any way to "heat it"? Just put full of coal and let the simulator run for 30 mins while I'm taking dinner to wait for the fire to heat? I don't know what to do.

Phil, thanks again for all your explanations and congrats again for the detailed work.
 
Thanks Vostrail!! I got 5 stars with realistic drive. I could do all the stops and works fine with dynamic. Maybe it is that those trains do really only have electro-brakes and do not have air-brakes in the reality... maybe. Thnx!
 
xmontero --

2) That steam locomotive issue.

Be aware that the espec used in steam locomotives can be, hmm how can I say it politely - problematic. Some are reasonable, some not so good. A few woeful.

Try to drive realistically. Use full throttle (regulator) and adjust speed with the reverser (cut-off). Fire little but frequently. Use the injector to keep the boiler about two thirds full of water.

If necessary use the blower to maintain pressure.

And if all else fails, swap the espec that's used in your problematic locomotive with one of mine from on the Download Station. There are two, one for small to medium sized locomotives (this one also comes built-in with T:ANE Deluxe - it's used in the little UP 0-6-0 switcher); the other is for big power. Both should work reasonably well.

1) That brake cylinder issue.

The brake cylinder pressure should, of course, increase when the brakes are applied.

Try using the locomotive (independent) brake - the "E" key toggles it on/off. See any pressure?

Try an emergency train brake application - "Z" immediately followed by "A". Anything?

If not - again it's an espec issue. Try substituting an alternative.

In this video (full screen / 1080p) I use the locomotive brake (because it applies and releases very quickly, even though it does not provide as much braking force as the train brake), except at the very end when I use the train brake to bring the consist to a halt. Watch the brake cylinder pressure - top left on the display screen = BC.


Edit:
This might be a better video. It shows the control settings as well as the display panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUMK5igfBAE#t=964.58

Phil
 
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