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Thread: Trainz "Next" is announced...

  1. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicky9499 View Post
    Just watch how this forum will lose their **** when Tony starts soliciting for pre orders or another important sounding but ultimately irrelevant "council".
    No, just a few very predictable individuals. I prefer to taste the dish before criticising the chef.
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  2. #317
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    trainz next

  3. #318
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    This is a very old topic, but I guess the powers that be are probably still mooting the idea of a subscription service. If so, my two cents:

    I understand that the organisation behind Trainz is a business and that, in order to sustain a business and grow it, income must continue to flow and increase year on year. If it doesn't, then the investors may as well pull their money out of the company and stick it in a low-yield bank savings account instead. Each new version of Trainz, and each bit of Payware that is introduced, will produce a new revenue peak at launch time, but then it will plateau and slow from a revenue stream to a revenue trickle. The idea of a "Repeating Subscription Game" makes commercial sense. From a personal player viewpoint, whether or not I "buy into" the new Trainz would depend on financial affordability.

    For me, as a hardcore Trainz fan, the First Class Ticket at about £25 a year, is an almost essential purchase. However, if I had a personal emergency that meant I had to tighten my belt, I could let my First Class Ticket (which is like an annual "subscription") expire and it wouldn't stop me playing the game. It would mean slow downloads, a daily cap on how much I could download and maybe I would have to retain old copies of some updated assets for a while. However, I could still carry on with my Route/Session building, I could still go and just play Trainz. If "Little Johnny" (or his grandad) gets a copy of Trainz for his Birthday or Christmas, and no one gives him any pocket money, not having a First Class Ticket isn't the end of Little Johnny's world (or his grandad's)! Indeed, with the list of assets included with T-ANE, the Deluxe or Platinum versions would keep him busy for quite a while without access to the DLS!

    With a "Subscription Only Service", if I had to let it lapse, I imagine I would be "bombed out" of the game and that is why I would like those that sit around the "round table", and kick the commercial ideas around, to consider the impact on the entire customer base and not just those with good careers and healthy finances. As we know from this forum, we have people from all walks of life among us - as well as wealthy professionals, we have schoolchildren, retired people, people with long-term sickness issues, people "between jobs" etc. so keeping our hobby both affordable and enjoyable is essential.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by sterrett; January 29th, 2018 at 08:46 AM.
    The North Devon Line - Many a Happy Memory..........

  4. #319
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    Hi everybody.
    Sterrett, many thanks for your very realistic posting at #318 of this thread which I would recommend all forum members to read and absorb. If I may be allowed to expand on what has been stated in that posting as I believe that the Trainz scene has very much changed since this thread was originally created by the N3V management.

    In recent weeks N3V have stated that the staff numbers within the company will be expanded not only to bring forward the new PC version (Trainz Next) but also a new versions of Trainz for IOS and Android on their mobile platforms. The foregoing I feel (if N3V has the resilience to carry those plans through) will bring a whole new outlook to the Trainz franchise which will have to be reflected in this forum if the those very ambitious plans put forward by N3V fully meet with the success that they deserve.

    Gaming on all platforms has become much more expensive in recent times as the cost of a PC, it’s components and phones capable of high end mobile gaming has rapidly increased. In the foregoing the widest market therefore needs to be captured by N3V across all platforms, for in that the largest user base will be obtained. Success in that would bring forward the benefits of scale which can then be passed on to that expanded user base in terms of holding down cost to the benefit of all categories of user within this community.

    However, in the above an “adjustment” of perspective is required within this forum so as to more fully encompass platforms other than windows PC. Mobile gaming has grown to become financially more than 50% of the total revenue gained from the gaming platform worldwide. This forum must begin to reflect that and “get behind” N3Vs endeavours to create itself an increased share of that market.

    In the foregoing, the IOS (iPad, iPhone) and Android sections of this forum are very much neglected. To try to gain more interest I have created a thread in the Android section in regard to the phones that possibly may be required to run the new Android version of Trainz. I feel we need similar on the IOS section and someone from N3V can perhaps also post on those sections advising on the forthcoming versions.

    Success with the new versions would benefit this whole community and add security to this gaming interest into the future.

    Bill
    Last edited by wholbr; January 29th, 2018 at 11:45 AM.

  5. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by sterrett View Post
    This is a very old topic, but I guess the powers that be are probably still mooting the idea of a subscription service. If so, my two cents:

    With a "Subscription Only Service", if I had to let it lapse, I imagine I would be "bombed out" of the game and that is why I would like those that sit around the "round table", and kick the commercial ideas around, to consider the impact on the entire customer base and not just those with good careers and healthy finances. As we know from this forum, we have people from all walks of life among us - as well as wealthy professionals, we have schoolchildren, retired people, people with long-term sickness issues, people "between jobs" etc. so keeping our hobby both affordable and enjoyable is essential.

    Thank you.
    The idea of the Subscription-Only-Service is for multi-player/multi-user access for Surveyor and will not affect the main program, which according to the powers to be say will work just as we have grown to love and hate with Trainz as it's been around since its beginnings.

    During the testing, as a member of the Trainz Dev group, I had the opportunity to "test" the multiuser aspect of Surveyor. This was quite interesting and worked well for a test, though it did crash due to various technical issues which still need to be worked out. In some ways this is like those early airplane tests where a wing design goes together only to find the plane on the ground way too fast! The ability to work on a route and then let someone else work on an area was quite interesting, though we were limited to a small content set of built-in assets.

    The potential here for such a program is obvious, especially for those that are involved in large collaborative projects where a route in its multitude of versions gets passed back and forth between users before coming to fruition. Having been involved in a couple of such projects, I can see this kind of addition to be more than welcome. With the multiple versions existing on various PCs, among various users, there's that bigger chance that a wrong version gets passed along, or something gets lost along the way. With everything in one place, the difference is obvious.

    As far as being a permanent way of doing things, we were told no that's not the case. We can use T:Next, or whatever it'll be called, just as we use T:ANE now and have used Trainz in all other previous iterations. When anyone wants to work on a bigger project, they can subscribe to the multiuser Surveyor option. When the route is completed, it's downloaded and used locally just as we do today. The subscription only is active as long as the service is used or needed. With that in mind, I can only barely fathom the infrastructure needed on the server side to support the operations of something like this, thus, the necessity of a subscription to subsidize the cost.
    With this in mind, I see this as a VR model railroad club which fits right in the sub-product TMR2017 in that vein.

    As Tony mentioned recently in the newsletter a few weeks ago, the data changes made in the latest T:ANE version with all those data chunks takes this type of operation into account so that the route data can be handled both locally as well as online, and to allow us to handle huge Trainz routes well beyond what our own PCs, generically speaking can handle.
    Last edited by JCitron; January 30th, 2018 at 09:34 AM. Reason: Edited for more clarification - got a phone call in middle of writing.
    John
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  6. #321

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    Bill, your ardent support of mobile platforms is admirable but they aren't practical in all circumstances. Consider the following:

    1. N3V does not have a track (pun?) record of having "good", stable, reasonably bug-free releases.
    2. The full-fat version of Trainz is a highly complex and demanding application.
    3. There are games that can be enjoyed, passing time while on the subway. Trainz is not one of those.
    4. Developing for multiple platforms detracts from the main effort of both improving TANE and developing NEXT, neither of which is a trivial undertaking. We've already seen what happens when N3V has supposedly focused all its efforts which is early-TANE. Don't think I want to see what happens when they're spread too thin.

    5. While there is money to be made in the mobile market, this market is still very much a juvenile and superficial demographic centered around whales, in-app purchases, lootboxes and pay-to-win models, all of which are a cancer to mainstream gaming and not something Trainz fans would like to see infecting our ecosystem anytime soon. We already have DLC and DRM.

    6. And finally, Trainz on mobile simply hasn't translated to any noticeable improvement to the ecosystem. If anything, it's made it worse. Just ask anyone who's had to wade through hundreds of - for lack of a better word - utter crap from mobile users on the DLS. Even for the mobile players it's not much of an experience either. Content has to be extremely optimized and hence restricted, performance and graphics are mediocre. Why do you think the majority of threads from mobile users are asking for this route or that train? Because you don't just plonk an Ocemy engine or JR's Coal Country on a four-inch Android and expect it to run anything close to decent if at all. All you end up with at the end of the day is an uninspiring train driver and a flat battery.

    N3V will do good, at least in the near future, to avoid significant investment of time or money on mobile platforms.
    Last edited by nicky9499; January 29th, 2018 at 12:16 PM.

  7. #322
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    Well with mobile,I think it was not such a good idea to let mobile content show up on the PCs versions... because there is a lot of junk coming from mobile users... like "routes" that are bare base boards with some track with little scenery and they name them things like "AAA" or "AAaahhh!" or sometimes it's just a clone of city and country USA... or British midlands... or highland valley... but Infaredbob's routes are great. They have great detail. But what I am trying to say is... what if mobile and android was not such a good idea to invest in... I mean,I pads,I phones,I pods and androids are capable of more then they were before,but yet Trainz mobile and android are still in the days when rotating wheels were coming around,and mobile brought a lot of the I Trainz chat trolls... and a lot of mobile users expect more then an I pad or android can handle right now... like the detail of Trainz 12... or even T:ANE... and the detail I can see for highest on a new I pad is around TS09 detail between normal and low detail... so maybe some of us should think about if mobile and android was a good investment at all.....


    I think N3V might have second thoughts about mobile Trainz and android Trainz if the users on mobile and android get out of control on the I Trainz chat and on mobile multiplayer...
    Duct tape can't fix stupid. But it CAN muffle the sound.

  8. #323
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    Having on just dipped a toe into the mobile world, I have to agree with nicky9499. At best, it could be a nice advertisement for all things Trainz, hinting at would is possible given a decent platform. Just looking at the Trainz world on a tiny little screen as I tried to do leaves a lot to be desired. Like trying to appreciate the grand canyon by looking through a keyhole.

    As for the cost of a decent platform, I recently had to upgrade to a new PC with a 1070ti. Amazingly, I paid about the same price as I did for my very first PC many moons ago so in terms of bang for buck, I got way more now than then. So while the hardware requirements go up with every new software version, the overall cost has remained pretty stable over all these years. And since my Trainz PC also does other work, it's not sitting idle between Trainz play.


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  9. #324
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    Maybe Trainz mobile will be a gateway drug to the PC version!

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  10. #325
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    Apart from nicky, I see we've all dabbled with the mobile versions - either Android or IOS.

    From what I've seen, much to Mrs Sterrett's annoyance, we'll be playing on the PC for a long time to come! Nicky's post was right - there's a heck of a lot of "spam" on the DLS (Just how many British Midland Routes are in existence? or aaa? or aaaah? or "Doom Costers"?) Tablets and mobile devices have very limited gaming capacity and I agree with the consensus that the two need to be separated on the DLS.
    The North Devon Line - Many a Happy Memory..........

  11. #326
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    I don't care what platform I'm on, but until Android or any other OS comes close to the level of detail and performance that's currently achievable in T:ANE, I'm sticking with Windows. I'd like to see a tablet interface added, as an option, to the core product, so that future tablets and touchscreen devices, with enough power, could use T:ANE- my Surface Pro (i5, 8GB) will just about run it on low detail settings and without shadows, but it does need a keyboard to be usable.

    Personally I think that the decision to allow mobile users to upload to the DLS was a mistake, and I'd love to see a check box in T:ANE, disabled by default, saying 'show mobile content?'.

    R3

  12. #327
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    And if you were to have T:ANE detail on the newest I pad without the game freezing then crashing... then the battery would die completely at a maximum one minute... and if it was a cartoon then a ton of smoke would be coming out of the I pad... then just cartoon comedy after that... (Maybe something like "Fire! Fire! Fire!" from there neighbors when there is no fire?...)


    And I do think allowing mobile users to upload to the DLS was a terrible idea... well the stuff I uploaded to the DLS from mobile... I do confess that the stuff is not in good detail at all,but I did not make a bare base board called "AAAAA" at all... but it is not that easy to make good detail routes with I pad... it's a slower process,and I have a lack of patience. I think mobile should have its own category....


    I think now that Trainz mobile was just a bad idea,some mobile users are just ruinning looking on the DLS to.
    Duct tape can't fix stupid. But it CAN muffle the sound.

  13. #328
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    When Android and iOS devices come with a 50" UHD screen I will be interested. I find it hard enough reading these forums on my mobile device.
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  14. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    When Android and iOS devices come with a 50" UHD screen I will be interested. I find it hard enough reading these forums on my mobile device.
    Also when iOS and Androids get 4.0GHz CPU, 32GB of RAM and a 10 series Nvidia GTX. Good luck trying to run anything more than Trainz: Virtual Railroading On Your PC on a device other than a windows, which considering most Macs suck at running TANE when a lot is happening in a scene.

    Cheers, Stefan

  15. #330
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    Hi everybody.
    It would seem that I created much comment in a short period in regard to my posting at #318 of this thread. However, in that posting I did not comment on the quality of mobile apps or make any comparison to mobile versus PC gaming as can be seen by those viewing the post.

    The main point in the above post was the expansion of N3V in regards to the upgrade of the Android and IOS Trainz apps and the beneficial effects that may have on the overall user base.

    The worldwide gaming market has expanded enormously in recent years with the mobile market leading that expansion with revenue gained from those platforms now accounting for approximately 50% of total sales. PC gaming revenue has also increased but at a much slower rate than its mobile counterpart. Indeed PC revenue accounts for approximately 25% of overall gaming sales, with 25% being accounted for in consul gaming.

    At the present time N3V only have a real presence on the IOS platform, but again that gaming only accounts for approximately 10% of the total mobile market with Android gaming commanding between 85-90% of the remaining revenue. Therefore, undoubtedly N3V have taken a commercial decision to secure more fully the future of the Trainz franchise by increasing its presence in that mobile market. The foregoing will increase the size of the overall user base and also in that the diversity the security of the revenue available to the company.

    Obviously many in this thread fear that such developments will reduce the resources available for the development of Trainz Next which could indeed be the case. However, those developments if successful will combine with the Windows PC version(s) to better secure the long term future of this Trainz interest to the benefit of all its users both present and those drawn in on mobile.

    In regards to the comment that mobile gaming is “juvenile” i would invite those who think in that regard to view the many YouTube flight simulation videos available especially those featuring “ Infinite Flight” which I enjoy enormously at present. I would be the first to agree that it does not compare to some of the flight Simulators available to PC but I can play that on my journeys throughout Britain’s overcrowded rail network where that could not be carried out on a PC (as they do not travel well) or even a laptop on many routes.

    In regard to small screens, in the above that is an advantage, but for those who wish for larger then that is being addressed by the integration of Chrome OS and Android OS on the Chromebook range of laptops.

    I can only see gain in N3Vs expanded trading policy if successful, and I fail to understand those that do not wish for that.

    Bill
    Last edited by wholbr; January 29th, 2018 at 06:09 PM. Reason: Typo error

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