Trainz "Next" is announced...

Bill, your ardent support of mobile platforms is admirable but they aren't practical in all circumstances. Consider the following:

1. N3V does not have a track (pun?) record of having "good", stable, reasonably bug-free releases.
2. The full-fat version of Trainz is a highly complex and demanding application.
3. There are games that can be enjoyed, passing time while on the subway. Trainz is not one of those.
4. Developing for multiple platforms detracts from the main effort of both improving TANE and developing NEXT, neither of which is a trivial undertaking. We've already seen what happens when N3V has supposedly focused all its efforts which is early-TANE. Don't think I want to see what happens when they're spread too thin.

5. While there is money to be made in the mobile market, this market is still very much a juvenile and superficial demographic centered around whales, in-app purchases, lootboxes and pay-to-win models, all of which are a cancer to mainstream gaming and not something Trainz fans would like to see infecting our ecosystem anytime soon. We already have DLC and DRM.

6. And finally, Trainz on mobile simply hasn't translated to any noticeable improvement to the ecosystem. If anything, it's made it worse. Just ask anyone who's had to wade through hundreds of - for lack of a better word - utter crap from mobile users on the DLS. Even for the mobile players it's not much of an experience either. Content has to be extremely optimized and hence restricted, performance and graphics are mediocre. Why do you think the majority of threads from mobile users are asking for this route or that train? Because you don't just plonk an Ocemy engine or JR's Coal Country on a four-inch Android and expect it to run anything close to decent if at all. All you end up with at the end of the day is an uninspiring train driver and a flat battery.

N3V will do good, at least in the near future, to avoid significant investment of time or money on mobile platforms.

Well with mobile,I think it was not such a good idea to let mobile content show up on the PCs versions... because there is a lot of junk coming from mobile users... like "routes" that are bare base boards with some track with little scenery and they name them things like "AAA" or "AAaahhh!" or sometimes it's just a clone of city and country USA... or British midlands... or highland valley... but Infaredbob's routes are great. They have great detail. But what I am trying to say is... what if mobile and android was not such a good idea to invest in... I mean,I pads,I phones,I pods and androids are capable of more then they were before,but yet Trainz mobile and android are still in the days when rotating wheels were coming around,and mobile brought a lot of the I Trainz chat trolls... and a lot of mobile users expect more then an I pad or android can handle right now... like the detail of Trainz 12... or even T:ANE... and the detail I can see for highest on a new I pad is around TS09 detail between normal and low detail... so maybe some of us should think about if mobile and android was a good investment at all.....


I think N3V might have second thoughts about mobile Trainz and android Trainz if the users on mobile and android get out of control on the I Trainz chat and on mobile multiplayer...

Having on just dipped a toe into the mobile world, I have to agree with nicky9499. At best, it could be a nice advertisement for all things Trainz, hinting at would is possible given a decent platform. Just looking at the Trainz world on a tiny little screen as I tried to do leaves a lot to be desired. Like trying to appreciate the grand canyon by looking through a keyhole.

As for the cost of a decent platform, I recently had to upgrade to a new PC with a 1070ti. Amazingly, I paid about the same price as I did for my very first PC many moons ago so in terms of bang for buck, I got way more now than then. So while the hardware requirements go up with every new software version, the overall cost has remained pretty stable over all these years. And since my Trainz PC also does other work, it's not sitting idle between Trainz play.

Maybe Trainz mobile will be a gateway drug to the PC version!

:hehe:

Apart from nicky, I see we've all dabbled with the mobile versions - either Android or IOS.

From what I've seen, much to Mrs Sterrett's annoyance, we'll be playing on the PC for a long time to come! Nicky's post was right - there's a heck of a lot of "spam" on the DLS (Just how many British Midland Routes are in existence? or aaa? or aaaah? or "Doom Costers"?) Tablets and mobile devices have very limited gaming capacity and I agree with the consensus that the two need to be separated on the DLS.

I don't care what platform I'm on, but until Android or any other OS comes close to the level of detail and performance that's currently achievable in T:ANE, I'm sticking with Windows. I'd like to see a tablet interface added, as an option, to the core product, so that future tablets and touchscreen devices, with enough power, could use T:ANE- my Surface Pro (i5, 8GB) will just about run it on low detail settings and without shadows, but it does need a keyboard to be usable.

Personally I think that the decision to allow mobile users to upload to the DLS was a mistake, and I'd love to see a check box in T:ANE, disabled by default, saying 'show mobile content?'.

R3

And if you were to have T:ANE detail on the newest I pad without the game freezing then crashing... then the battery would die completely at a maximum one minute... and if it was a cartoon then a ton of smoke would be coming out of the I pad... then just cartoon comedy after that... (Maybe something like "Fire! Fire! Fire!" from there neighbors when there is no fire?...)


And I do think allowing mobile users to upload to the DLS was a terrible idea... well the stuff I uploaded to the DLS from mobile... I do confess that the stuff is not in good detail at all,but I did not make a bare base board called "AAAAA" at all... but it is not that easy to make good detail routes with I pad... it's a slower process,and I have a lack of patience. I think mobile should have its own category....


I think now that Trainz mobile was just a bad idea,some mobile users are just ruinning looking on the DLS to.

When Android and iOS devices come with a 50" UHD screen I will be interested. I find it hard enough reading these forums on my mobile device.

pware said:

When Android and iOS devices come with a 50" UHD screen I will be interested. I find it hard enough reading these forums on my mobile device.

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Also when iOS and Androids get 4.0GHz CPU, 32GB of RAM and a 10 series Nvidia GTX. Good luck trying to run anything more than Trainz: Virtual Railroading On Your PC on a device other than a windows, which considering most Macs suck at running TANE when a lot is happening in a scene.

Cheers, Stefan

Hi everybody.
It would seem that I created much comment in a short period in regard to my posting at #318 of this thread. However, in that posting I did not comment on the quality of mobile apps or make any comparison to mobile versus PC gaming as can be seen by those viewing the post.

The main point in the above post was the expansion of N3V in regards to the upgrade of the Android and IOS Trainz apps and the beneficial effects that may have on the overall user base.

The worldwide gaming market has expanded enormously in recent years with the mobile market leading that expansion with revenue gained from those platforms now accounting for approximately 50% of total sales. PC gaming revenue has also increased but at a much slower rate than its mobile counterpart. Indeed PC revenue accounts for approximately 25% of overall gaming sales, with 25% being accounted for in consul gaming.

At the present time N3V only have a real presence on the IOS platform, but again that gaming only accounts for approximately 10% of the total mobile market with Android gaming commanding between 85-90% of the remaining revenue. Therefore, undoubtedly N3V have taken a commercial decision to secure more fully the future of the Trainz franchise by increasing its presence in that mobile market. The foregoing will increase the size of the overall user base and also in that the diversity the security of the revenue available to the company.

Obviously many in this thread fear that such developments will reduce the resources available for the development of Trainz Next which could indeed be the case. However, those developments if successful will combine with the Windows PC version(s) to better secure the long term future of this Trainz interest to the benefit of all its users both present and those drawn in on mobile.

In regards to the comment that mobile gaming is “juvenile” i would invite those who think in that regard to view the many YouTube flight simulation videos available especially those featuring “ Infinite Flight” which I enjoy enormously at present. I would be the first to agree that it does not compare to some of the flight Simulators available to PC but I can play that on my journeys throughout Britain’s overcrowded rail network where that could not be carried out on a PC (as they do not travel well) or even a laptop on many routes.

In regard to small screens, in the above that is an advantage, but for those who wish for larger then that is being addressed by the integration of Chrome OS and Android OS on the Chromebook range of laptops.

I can only see gain in N3Vs expanded trading policy if successful, and I fail to understand those that do not wish for that.

Bill

You typed 9 paragraphs ... and "WHAT" did you say ?

Just as bad as JMB ... Paragraph, after paragraph, of nothing ... wurdz ... wurdz ... wurdz

When the Ipad was first launched, quickly followed by other tablets, the computer press hailed them as "satisfying a certain niche if all you wish to do is browse the web, watch a movie and bash out an email, but for more power and grunt, the pc will still be needed."

Despite the IPads having a lot more "grunt" than they did in their infancy, they still lag way behind due, largely, to the lack of physical RAM and graphics capability. If tablets did have more RAM and decent graphics, then in such a small unit, it would be impossibile to disperse the heat which, in a unit powered by a potentially explosive Lithium battery, would be disastrous. Future developments may overcome these obstacles, but we're probably looking at least 25 years away.

The Trainz for Android I purchased a while back is very basic - akin to the Trainz SP1 of old which I first ran on the AMD equivalent of a Pentium 200 with 1Gb RAM, later upgraded to 4Gb. Whilst, back in its day, Trainz SP1 was delightful, I think it must be very disappointing for anyone as an introduction to our hobby, especially as there are such terrible limitations in being able to expand content or do any serious route/session building. Whilst I fully understand any games business wishing to capitalise on mobile platforms, I think the two should be separated.

sterrett said:

When the Ipad was first launched, quicklrretty followed by other tablets, the computer press hailed them as "satisfying a certain niche if all you wish to do is browse the web, watch a movie and bash out an email, but for more power and grunt, the pc will still be needed."

Despite the IPads having a lot more "grunt" than they did in their infancy, they still lag way behind due, largely, to the lack of physical RAM and graphics capability. If tablets did have more RAM and decent graphics, then in such a small unit, it would be impossibile to disperse the heat which, in a unit powered by a potentially explosive Lithium battery, would be disastrous. Future developments may overcome these obstacles, but we're probably looking at least 25 years away.

The Trainz for Android I purchased a while back is very basic - akin to the Trainz SP1 of old which I first ran on the AMD equivalent of a Pentium 200 with 1Gb RAM, later upgraded to 4Gb. Whilst, back in its day, Trainz SP1 was delightful, I think it must be very disappointing for anyone as an introduction to our hobby, especially as there are such terrible limitations in being able to expand content or do any serious route/session building. Whilst I fully understand any games business wishing to capitalise on mobile platforms, I think the two should be separated.

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Sterrett, the sales of tablets in the last 18 months have "fallen off a cliff". Certainly in Android circles it is phones that command sales with the high end of the range having the latest Qualcomm processors which have 4 or 6gbs of ram on board which give superb graphics and performance for those who enjoy the very best in mobile gaming and photography.

Not cheap, but very enjoyable whenever and wherever you are, and that is the strength of the mobile market.
Bill

leo655annst said:

Maybe Trainz mobile will be a gateway drug to the PC version!

:hehe:

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I always believed that in addition to making money N3Vs intention was to capture an audience when the user was very young in the same way the banks do with students, a percentage of those youngsters would want to graduate onto the PC version.

Ken

KenGreen said:

I always believed that in addition to making money N3Vs intention was to capture an audience when the user was very young in the same way the banks do with students, a percentage of those youngsters would want to graduate onto the PC version.

Ken

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And for those that who do not or cannot graduate, N3V will be there with the very best (hopefully) in mobile simulation.
Bill

There is also more then just the low detail with mobile Trainz that makes me think it is a bad investment. There is also what mobile users put on the DLS. I mean,there is really some absolute rubbish from some mobile users... and with all the in-app purchases... by the time they get the PC version,they realize that a lot of the stuff included in the in-app purchases was free on the DLS... and that would make them probably think "Did I actually spend all that money on stuff I could of got for free if I had just went with a PC version and used the DLS and the stuff would have had higher detail?". I think that would be a let down there.

RailFan500CA said:

There is also more then just the low detail with mobile Trainz that makes me think it is a bad investment. There is also what mobile users put on the DLS. I mean,there is really some absolute rubbish from some mobile users... and with all the in-app purchases... by the time they get the PC version,they realize that a lot of the stuff included in the in-app purchases was free on the DLS... and that would make them probably think "Did I actually spend all that money on stuff I could of got for free if I had just went with a PC version and used the DLS and the stuff would have had higher detail?". I think that would be a let down there.

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Many younger people never gain any experience on a PC today as iPads or more recently Chromebooks have become the standard for education. Therefore it is unlikely that any student would regret any purchases made in mobile as graduating to PC gaming would be a completely new experience and unlikely to be attached to anything that has gone before. Mobile would continue as standard for all other uses to those younger persons, as seen in a great many offices these days
Bill

.....in which case, the continuing developments into the mobile "platform" are a great bit of forward planning on behalf of Trainz / T-ANE's backers.

When you look at it, I would guess the majority of us who have been with Trainz since its foundation will be approaching retirement within 10-15 years. I still see TRS2004 as a major recent development and that was 15 years ago! (Crikey! we had a coal mine that could load coal into trucks, a power station that could consume coal and, a few months after its launch, passenger carriages (cars) with opening doors and passengers who joined and left the train at passenger enabled platforms! I remember "magandy" building the "Devon Belle" Pullman Observation Car for me and I was absolutely blown away because he had included interior views.) That means a quarter of a century has passed since I first started messing around with the creation of a Polish University Mathematics Class' experiment - "Mechanik EN57" with EGA graphics!

However, a quarter of a century later, I am fast approaching retirement and I guess that applies to a good many of those who use the Desktop PC or Laptop for our hobby (even Mrs Sterrett keeps making clucking noises and asking if it is "really" necessary to have my desktop cluttering up the place! (If we could get rid of your desk when we retire, we could get away with downsizing to a 2 bed and releasing some money ......... erghhh, I'm still young, dammit!)

Like it or not, Trainz backers know that the future revenue streams lie with the "Millenial +1 and Millenial + 2 generations so Good Luck with the developments. It looks as if T-ANE will still have support for a long time to come so there's no cause for panic......and if Trainz Mobile can come up with something exciting when I hit retirement, you might make Mrs Sterrett happy - even ifg it is on "subscription"!

Good luck to the teams working on mobile platforms. It may not be that brilliant now, but who knows what awaits in the future.

I would imagine that N3V would always want a flagship product on PC to demonstrate Trainz capabilities.

Ken

smash said:

Thanks for all the years of service Auran/N3V has given me. But I do not now nor will I ever support subscription based gaming.
Not everybody can support it. I for one cannnot afford a game subscription. There will be lots of people that cannot do it.
The current rate for TANE std digital download is aus 55.00. Divide by 12 months works out to around 4.58 dollars. I doubt a monthly subscription can be had for such a low price.
No offence it is a bad idea.

Kinda reminds me of Auran's Fury. We know how that turned out.
Kenny

This is just my personal feelings but I feel you all are just pi**ing in our own Wheaties.
Edit there are more reason I feel this is not a good Idea but others will say the same things.

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Not to mention that not all trainzers have a continuous internet connection for trainzing.