Tony_Hilliam
Trainz Plus - enjoy Trainz from just 20 cents a da
You can view the page at http://forums.auran.com/trainz/content.php?130-the-“next”-big-thing-for-Trainz
Article: What is the “next” big thing for Trainz?
- Thread starter Tony_Hilliam
- Start date
amigacooke
Well-known member
Will I be subscribing to Next, not a chance.
Never going to work. Most content creators work in their own creative bubble and building a route occupies enough time without having to manage a potentially precocious group of prima-donna associate team members. Trainz already supports a synergy for route builders by way of the DLS, where the 3D modellers and texture creators upload their work, which the route builders then choose as necessary to incorporate in their projects.
Don't try and re-invent the wheel and certainly don't try peddling what also seems a bit of a poor man's attempt to emulate MS ambition for their (second) attempt at MSTS with "World of Rails". Just fix what went wrong in TANE 1, address the optimization, put in some good basic features which the other sims had from Day 0 (timetable/activity editors and non-player dispatching - without the complexity of interlocking towers), some decent up to date default content with good world variety and that will give people a train sim worth the name.
And if anywhere along the line this new direction invokes any concept of tablet like "pay to play", other than occasional subscription to DLS as now, it's not going to hold any appeal for me personally nor I suspect many other traditional simmers. In addition remember back to 2001 when Greg Lane and John Banks were anxious to peddle the idea of collectibles - it was abandoned because they realized in the context of a train sim, playing anything other than the straight ball (or bat) rarely works. People want to drive trains and build routes. Mostly by themselves with a very small % perhaps interested in some sort of online co-operation.
Don't try and re-invent the wheel and certainly don't try peddling what also seems a bit of a poor man's attempt to emulate MS ambition for their (second) attempt at MSTS with "World of Rails". Just fix what went wrong in TANE 1, address the optimization, put in some good basic features which the other sims had from Day 0 (timetable/activity editors and non-player dispatching - without the complexity of interlocking towers), some decent up to date default content with good world variety and that will give people a train sim worth the name.
And if anywhere along the line this new direction invokes any concept of tablet like "pay to play", other than occasional subscription to DLS as now, it's not going to hold any appeal for me personally nor I suspect many other traditional simmers. In addition remember back to 2001 when Greg Lane and John Banks were anxious to peddle the idea of collectibles - it was abandoned because they realized in the context of a train sim, playing anything other than the straight ball (or bat) rarely works. People want to drive trains and build routes. Mostly by themselves with a very small % perhaps interested in some sort of online co-operation.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
I've got my own concerns regarding this...
In terms of having a multiplayer surveyor, this may work if it's a team-based route. However, I don't personally think I would make use of the feature as I prefer to build my own routes.
In terms of the subscription model, this runs the risk of alienating quite a few users, particularly those who are on a fixed income or young users. Some clarification may be needed on what the options are for those who don't want to use the multiplayer surveyor facilities.
Shane
In terms of having a multiplayer surveyor, this may work if it's a team-based route. However, I don't personally think I would make use of the feature as I prefer to build my own routes.
In terms of the subscription model, this runs the risk of alienating quite a few users, particularly those who are on a fixed income or young users. Some clarification may be needed on what the options are for those who don't want to use the multiplayer surveyor facilities.
Shane
Tony,
No, please don't...
In terms of a mainstream release this idea is a disaster, although I can see that it would help content creation groups function more efficiently so may have benefits in that respect (and a subscription model would be viable for such groups).
Would I let a 10 year old from Outer Mongolia edit a route that I've spent 2 years working on ? No chance !
What happens if author #1 spends a week creating a faithful reproduction of Hull East station and the author no #2 comes along and flattens the whole thing ? OK, owner permissions, but they would be easily circumvented.
However good the technical side of this may be there is still human nature to be contended with and organisation (external to Trainz) will still be needed.
Looking back, despite all of the posts on this forum asking for a multiplayer version of 'standard' Trainz how many people use it now that it's available ?
So many concerns I can't list them
.
Listen to the people who put their money up front in Kickstarter and continue to develop the enhancements on their priority list. At the very least work on another version of Trainz with improved surveyor tools (and timetabling would be nice too).
TTFN
Chris M
No, please don't...
In terms of a mainstream release this idea is a disaster, although I can see that it would help content creation groups function more efficiently so may have benefits in that respect (and a subscription model would be viable for such groups).
Would I let a 10 year old from Outer Mongolia edit a route that I've spent 2 years working on ? No chance !
What happens if author #1 spends a week creating a faithful reproduction of Hull East station and the author no #2 comes along and flattens the whole thing ? OK, owner permissions, but they would be easily circumvented.
However good the technical side of this may be there is still human nature to be contended with and organisation (external to Trainz) will still be needed.
Looking back, despite all of the posts on this forum asking for a multiplayer version of 'standard' Trainz how many people use it now that it's available ?
So many concerns I can't list them
.Listen to the people who put their money up front in Kickstarter and continue to develop the enhancements on their priority list. At the very least work on another version of Trainz with improved surveyor tools (and timetabling would be nice too).
TTFN
Chris M
I ' ' semi-agree' ' with that idea. The standards are the priority. Imagine the mess of a route made with tume's trains and objects (which have detailed winter mode in all locos and objects like in the Avery-Drexel), other objects from the DLS without that functionalities, the result is a strange picture. You should say/provide all the allowed objects, locos, etc,.... BUT then, some DLC's creators will be angry becasue their models do not have winter mode or animated wipers... There is no solution to these problems, in Trainz and all the simulators in the world (train, ships, planes....) becasue you have to deal with third party creators...you should make a ´´magical ´´ program that adds those standards.
Tony_Hilliam
Trainz Plus - enjoy Trainz from just 20 cents a da
It's great to see the crystal balls appearing and the discussion started. I remember when this guy Steve said that people would want a big phone screen that couldn't make phone calls and didn't have a keyboard. People said the iPad would never work. I'm not saying this will be as big as iPad but I am saying that sometimes you need to experience something to grasp the intention
Once again I will stress (although I am getting tired of the repeating myself) that Next does not mean the end for TANE. Of course new features are required to continue moving forward. And of course not everyone is going to want to be part of this vision. BUT, everyone will want to check out the improved content along with the new features we introduce.
We see that there are many thousands of current "dabblers" who will become part-time contributors to a "bigger picture" route they would never contemplate under the current stand-alone system. ANd then there are people with talents in one area but not another - their route never sees light of day (e.g. no idea how to apply signalling but really good at artwork)
Once again I will stress (although I am getting tired of the repeating myself) that Next does not mean the end for TANE. Of course new features are required to continue moving forward. And of course not everyone is going to want to be part of this vision. BUT, everyone will want to check out the improved content along with the new features we introduce.
This isn’t really true. Yes, there may be some people who fit that description. There are also many people who are already forming groups to collaborate on routes, even though the tools don’t actually facilitate this- this has been going on for years. And of course, there are a lot of people who don’t have the time or experience to create a large-scale project by themselves, but who would love to contribute to something a bit more light-hearted.
We see that there are many thousands of current "dabblers" who will become part-time contributors to a "bigger picture" route they would never contemplate under the current stand-alone system. ANd then there are people with talents in one area but not another - their route never sees light of day (e.g. no idea how to apply signalling but really good at artwork)
You’re right, this allows 3D modellers and a single route builder to work together (or if really organised, one or two others) - but it does nothing to allow route builders to work with each other, which is the problem that we’re addressing here.
I don’t see much point in comparing what we are doing with what somebody else failed to do. Maybe there are similarities. Maybe there aren’t. Time will tell.
We’re not asking or expecting the entire user base to convert over to this system. Other options will be available. We’re just providing a new option for the people who want it, and we believe that quite a few people will in fact want it. And historically Trainz has been pretty much equal between the creative aspect and the driving aspect.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Perhaps you could outline the other option please, as I'm considerably confused?
Me too, just what do the rest of us loyal Trainz supporters get out of Trainz Next, if we are not interested in online editing or subscriptions?
Do we get left with an out of date unsupported TANE and left to fade into the sunset?
I was under the impression that the Next version would be further development on the TANE base, not going off in a new direction. Seems to be nothing for those of us who do not wish to get involved in on-line Editing which will probably spell the end of Trainz as we know it.
Where did you read that? I guess my "between the lines" glasses need cleaning.Me too, just what do the rest of us loyal Trainz supporters get out of Trainz Next, if we are not interested in online editing or subscriptions?
Do we get left with an out of date unsupported TANE and left to fade into the sunset?
I was under the impression that the Next version would be further development on the TANE base, not going off in a new direction. Seems to be nothing for those of us who do not wish to get involved in on-line Editing which will probably spell the end of Trainz as we know it.
I can only conclude that chicken-little is alive and well.
Me too, just what do the rest of us loyal Trainz supporters get out of Trainz Next, if we are not interested in online editing or subscriptions?
Do we get left with an out of date unsupported TANE and left to fade into the sunset?
I was under the impression that the Next version would be further development on the TANE base, not going off in a new direction. Seems to be nothing for those of us who do not wish to get involved in on-line Editing which will probably spell the end of Trainz as we know it.
They've announce a new Trainz Driver, so I would presume that is your "other option." If I had to guess it'll be subscription based as well.
peter
Edit: Tony; if I understand you, you say that you don't expect there to be a trolling culture with this online surveyor thingy. But have you actually ever played any online games? I cannot name a single one that doesn't have some sort of trolling behavior in it's userbase.
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What's not clear is if Trainz Next will be usable to build routes without having to go on line or pay subscriptions, if that could be confirmed then it's not quite such a big issue as I just won't use the online stuff. Or put another way is this just purely a paid for additional feature extra to what we normally get.
No way as a creator of Routes and content am I going to revert to an inferior driver only product that's not why I got Trainz in the first place.
WaindWalkr's comment here (bolded) seems to indicate that in order to use the 'new' routes one will have to have a subscription of some sort; unless the route author deems otherwise (and I can see that changing.)
Peter
KingConrail76
New member
Just stop already. If you would focus on what you already have on your plate, and make it exceptional, you MIGHT gain back some credibility. Instead, you guys come up with all these "new Technology" money making ideas that DON'T come to meet your own expectations, let alone what you say they will, and no where close to "our" expectations.
If you could get TANE to run as good as TS2010, I'd be astonished. N3V "jumped the shark" when they released TS12, it's all down hill from here Pinky Tuscadaro.
I am fine with T:ANE, and not going to roll into multi player subscription base surveyor for route building. Besides, I have another simulator, formerly Railworks, and American Truck Simulator, not subscription based, to fall back on. Just keep updating T:ANE and I'll be happier.
Not interested in New online routes or collaborating, I prefer to do things myself. I just want to make my own routes and content on my own and upload to the DLS, so will Next do this or Not? If not it makes it kind of pointless having an option to suspend or not subscribe as it won't do anything and that can't be correct?
If N3V has said something along the lines of the Next version of Trainz will be similar to TANE with all the normal facilities but include an additional option for those who want to work together online for which there will be a subscription charge then that would make sense.
Currently I have no idea what we are likely to get, it's as clear as mud.
