Can you guess the next key feature for Trainz?

You could say exactly the same thing about Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, all the Office releases, and that is only a listing of Microsoft products.

Or worse... Those current offerings by Adobe which cost a lot more and are now subscription-only. Illustrator for example is still just as broken as it was 20 years ago when it came out. It still crashes on memory problems, still awkward, still...

So, either we should accept this as the norm, or face the fact we are screwed. Flip a coin?

Paul
 
Regrettably, it has become the norm in the software industry. The industry is so competitive and under so much pressure to "get the product out and on the shelves" that Quality Assurance is often the first to be sacrificed in the rush.
 
The simple truth is that businesses run on revenues. The "old" (current) model is that new products and new versions of old products can be sold. Service Packs and updates for existing products cannot be sold. SO at some point, the decision is made that the sales tap must be turned on.

Under a subscription model, there is no "new" version, but rather the updates just keep flowing.

It would be wonderful to fix every TANE bug then release the final product "bug free". But if that were the case you would still be waiting and the staff wouldn't have been paid, and there's not much chance of getting anything released without staff. So instead we struggle on in our niche market doing the best we can - and we accept that isn't good enough for some, but we're still here and not going away any time soon (in fact the sales trend is very positive right now).

When we are talking about bugs, there is another thread listing all the broken things in TANE - I am hoping that more people contribute to that list as it indicates that there are only a dozen or so real issues raised and then it comes down to feature requests. We certainly have a lot more issues already on our task list than being presented so far. Many of these fixes are already implemented and soon to be released in the next update.
 
Tony's statement about finding a model to generate additional revenue is upright and well appreciated. But from the customer point of view it won't be my cup of tea.

Subscription plans for software are not a new idea. They have been around for decades, often in conjunction with a maintenance contract. I remember the 80s when we were all Digital Equipment and held subscriptions for operating systems, database and development software. In the early days you got new version distribution media and big boxes with new manuals every other month, sometimes more than you could digest. But then it thinned out as DEC slowly went downhill. In the end, we canceled all those contracts, for one basic reason: You paid your monthly or annual subscription but what you got in return was unknown. There was no guarantee for an improved or new version of the software being developed and published. It was completely up to them. I learned the lesson.
 
Tony's statement about finding a model to generate additional revenue is upright and well appreciated. But from the customer point of view it won't be my cup of tea.

Subscription plans for software are not a new idea. They have been around for decades, often in conjunction with a maintenance contract. I remember the 80s when we were all Digital Equipment and held subscriptions for operating systems, database and development software. In the early days you got new version distribution media and big boxes with new manuals every other month, sometimes more than you could digest. But then it thinned out as DEC slowly went downhill. In the end, we canceled all those contracts, for one basic reason: You paid your monthly or annual subscription but what you got in return was unknown. There was no guarantee for an improved or new version of the software being developed and published. It was completely up to them. I learned the lesson.

I remember those vast quantities of user manuals as well. :)

The old company I worked for made a huge sum on their equipment maintenance contracts. In fact on some months it's what paid the bills more than the actual sale of their imaging equipment.

John
 
A new software product comes along, delivers killer features that we never knew we needed but soon can't live without. A few versions later, there are a few new ideas, but mostly it's polish of the original product. By this time, most users can already do all they ever want to do, or are likely to want to do with it, but are persuaded to buy the updates due to either a) threatened 'lack of support', or b) clever marketing that persuades them that they really do need some trivial but exciting-sounding feature that's new in version 6.35 or whatever. If you're really unlucky, the product will be given a 'makeover' to make well-loved features more difficult to use in the interests of a pretty interface. Eventually, the market gets savvy and realises that there's actually nothing useful being added, and users start hanging on to old versions, 'risking it' with lack of support. Perfectly usable versions of the software from more innocent times and unencumbered by new fangled internet server-based licenses can live on for years. At this point, it's time to move to a subscription model...

R3
 
A new software product comes along, delivers killer features that we never knew we needed but soon can't live without. A few versions later, there are a few new ideas, but mostly it's polish of the original product. By this time, most users can already do all they ever want to do, or are likely to want to do with it, but are persuaded to buy the updates due to either a) threatened 'lack of support', or b) clever marketing that persuades them that they really do need some trivial but exciting-sounding feature that's new in version 6.35 or whatever. If you're really unlucky, the product will be given a 'makeover' to make well-loved features more difficult to use in the interests of a pretty interface. Eventually, the market gets savvy and realises that there's actually nothing useful being added, and users start hanging on to old versions, 'risking it' with lack of support. Perfectly usable versions of the software from more innocent times and unencumbered by new fangled internet server-based licenses can live on for years. At this point, it's time to move to a subscription model...

R3

Nothing's changed. It's the same with religion, cars, computers, food, and so on, :)

John
 
John, software and equipment are two different animals. Even in the software world, games and simulators are VERY RARELY ever subscription based. Those that are usually are MMOs and other games of that nature.

As another member of this forum said (and to modify it a bit), most don't buy, they own. Plus, going off of the comments here (especially those from some very esteemed and valuable content creators, the bread and butter of the main selling point of Trainz), the resounding answer is no.
 
Hi everybody.
A new software product comes along, delivers killer features that we never knew we needed but soon can't live without. A few versions later, there are a few new ideas, but mostly it's polish of the original product. By this time, most users can already do all they ever want to do, or are likely to want to do with it, but are persuaded to buy the updates due to either a) threatened 'lack of support', or b) clever marketing that persuades them that they really do need some trivial but exciting-sounding feature that's new in version 6.35 or whatever. If you're really unlucky, the product will be given a 'makeover' to make well-loved features more difficult to use in the interests of a pretty interface. Eventually, the market gets savvy and realises that there's actually nothing useful being added, and users start hanging on to old versions, 'risking it' with lack of support. Perfectly usable versions of the software from more innocent times and unencumbered by new fangled internet server-based licenses can live on for years. At this point, it's time to move to a subscription model...R3
rumour3, I believe you're above posting is the most sensible and realistic assessment of the subscription situation there has been on this forum since the announcement was made a few days ago.

As I have stated on this forum many times, I was totally against the Kickstarter project and funding and I believe that opposition has proven to be the correct action any number of times in the months since the funding of the project ended. Even the N3V management has now conceded to the problems and drawbacks of crowdfunding T:ane which was ultimately to the disadvantage of the project.

However, on this occasion I can see that there could be many benefits in bringing forward a subscription based version with the main reason being the much more reliable financial income available to N3V and thereby Trainz and the Hobby so many love on this forum.

Relying totally on day-to-day sales in a niche market can be no one's ideal business scenario but that unfortunately is where our hobby is at present. Therefore, it is no wonder that more reliable sources of income are being sought out by the commercial providers of this hobby.

A train simulator has to be limited in any real upgrades that can be brought forward once the main concepts of rail transportation have been reached in the sim. Many forum members will have their own idea as to when and in what version that was achieved. Following that (and as rumour 3 so well documents in his above posting) new versions become “cosmetic” upgrades of what has gone before.

The foregoing is not to say that those upgrades are not important to its ongoing users. However, the market is formed and developed on earlier versions and in the case of Trainz it always has been and always will be a limited niche market. Therefore, N3V will always be reliant on regular income from the limited number of users there are within the Trainz franchise if the application is to be maintained with any financial certainty into the future.

So, subscription may well be the only way to even remotely guarantee the future of Trainz. It has already been stated by N3V that the flagship windows T:ane version is reliant on income derived from it's mobile counterpart (Ipad IOS) for its day-to-day survival in recent times. Therefore, those who love this Windows based hobby and wish to see it maintained may well have to concede that a larger and more regular income has to be provided from its users by way of subscription to N3V if the windows-based Trainz platform is to have any future at all.

Bill

 
Why all the push back against subscriptions?

T:ANE Deluxe Digital/PC is currently selling for $89.90 on SinCentral, which comes slightly less than $0.25 per day or about $7.50 per month if it was spread over one year. Hardly the major hit on the pocket book that all the noise would suggest. My newspaper costs more and gives me less pleasure. Meanwhile, until we know exactly how the subscription will be set up, what it will cost and what the conditions and rules are, perhaps we should tone down the angst.
 
My opinion is, that subscriptions can be ok. But greed may then develop into everything else going payware, and then I'm out of here very quickly
If a subscription could be set low enough to be managed by youngsters not yet working, who are our future.
But also include a component that would be distributed among payware providers on a popular download basis. Then it might work. Payware would still have to be good enough to pass standards already set. Freeware being still available for new builders learning how to build in 3D, and of course those wonderful folk who donate fantastic models for the love of the game.
Cheers
Rod
 
Why all the push back against subscriptions?

T:ANE Deluxe Digital/PC is currently selling for $89.90 on SinCentral, which comes slightly less than $0.25 per day or about $7.50 per month if it was spread over one year. Hardly the major hit on the pocket book that all the noise would suggest. My newspaper costs more and gives me less pleasure. Meanwhile, until we know exactly how the subscription will be set up, what it will cost and what the conditions and rules are, perhaps we should tone down the angst.


Well we don't know anything at present that's why all the concern and questions.

Using your example of the cost of TANE Deluxe spread over a year? firstly we are not buying a copy of Trainz every year, it's more like every 4 years in which case you are looking at paying that for the 4 year life cycle at least which comes out to $359.60, doesn't look much like a bargain to me, only an idiot would pay that much for a game. ;)
 
Well we don't know anything at present that's why all the concern and questions.

Using your example of the cost of TANE Deluxe spread over a year? firstly we are not buying a copy of Trainz every year, it's more like every 4 years in which case you are looking at paying that for the 4 year life cycle at least which comes out to $359.60, doesn't look much like a bargain to me, only an idiot would pay that much for a game. ;)

But many do when they start buying from a group that only sells payware. :)

At the present time, I'm not sitting in the corner fretting and wringing my hands in despair. We don't have enough details to know what we're being sold, and as usual a lot can happen in between now and the release day anyway that may change the course of things to come.

John
 
Well we don't know anything at present that's why all the concern and questions.

Using your example of the cost of TANE Deluxe spread over a year? firstly we are not buying a copy of Trainz every year, it's more like every 4 years in which case you are looking at paying that for the 4 year life cycle at least which comes out to $359.60, doesn't look much like a bargain to me, only an idiot would pay that much for a game. ;)


:p Thanks, Malc. That's the amount I pledged on Kickstarter! :hehe: I hope TANE lasts 4 years!

Andrew
 
...
The foregoing is not to say that those upgrades are not important to its ongoing users. However, the market is formed and developed on earlier versions and in the case of Trainz it always has been and always will be a limited niche market. Therefore, N3V will always be reliant on regular income from the limited number of users there are within the Trainz franchise if the application is to be maintained with any financial certainty into the future.

So, subscription may well be the only way to even remotely guarantee the future of Trainz...
Wow, I'm confused...

If the "niche" community is so committed to shelling out however much "subscription" money somebody out there deems appropriate from year to year, then why did N3V feel compelled to release a DRM-free version of T:ANE in the first place? I would think that this is a move in the opposite direction of subscription-based services.

I know...make beta testers pay to play, and see how far that gets ya...
 
I would like to see a more user feindly content manger like in 2012 but with the capabilities of tane.
Second would be a repaint shop for everyone to make their own railroads and companies.
Third and this is out there a condensed guide for any one to be able to make content from mid to high level trainz from the ground up so that trainz can out pace Train Simulator with an incredible amount of high level content for users to choose and if they can't find it they can make it.
 
Back
Top