Cleaning up the DLS

johnwhelan

Well-known member
When TC3 came out I cloned some of my content then converted them back to TRS2004 basically by using TRS2004 scripts.

Bobsanders reskinned them and the original versions.

All of IsambardKingdomBrunel content is mine with TRS2004 inserted in the version number, there is a post of his to that effect somewhere in the forum.

At the moment we have the later versions and strangely enough the earlier versions which someone else has updated to be error free.

They have the same meshes, they use the same texture files, they are redundant.

If possible at a minimum I'd like them to become invisible on the DLS if they can't be removed.

I really don't want to see another email from N3V saying there are errors in them and can they be updated. The updated versions are already on the DLS.

Thoughts?

Thanks John
 
We have the same problem with me and Peter - Peter used to use TRS2004 and he was putting his stuff on the DLS - Peter did not want to prevent 2004 users having access to his items and being forced into newer version so I was releasing updated and improved version of some his work in TS/10/12 versions. I would use scripting for auto numbering, express train headboards, sparking, marker lights and such which the old models never had.

N3V was asked to kill the older versions - when the DSL clean up started - Some one was even changing the names of items and was stating in the title that they were TS12 versions which they were not. Updates to Peters 2004 items still appear now and then, there is not chance of him doing it from were he now is.

It get got even worst for us when a 2004 version of a one loco and some rolling stock are now part of the TANE release built in rolling stock, when the much better, scripted and detailed loco and rolling stock were over looked.
 
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Sounds like one of the basic things that gets overlooked as they seek the next interesting detail.


Pity

Cheerio John
 
It is important that all the 04, 06, TC3 assets, as well as all the 09, 10, and 12 assets, are not corrupted, by changing them all to T:ANE standards ... as once they are broken, they can not be used by 04, 06, TC3 users, as well as all the 09, 10, and 12 assets, they can no longer be used.

If T:ANE is a complete FLOP, and N3V goes belly up, all the 04, 06, TC3, 09, 10, and 12 assets will be destroyed for use in lower versions ... that is why any updates, and clean-ups, should be done by creating a brand new kuid ... so the T:ANE assets clean-up, and updates do not completely screw older versions users.

Just because T:ANE is a good screenshot creation platform, it does not mean that it will not become yet another grande N3V failure, and become yet another huge bust, a total bomb of a program.

Updating the entire DLS to T:ANE trainz-build would be a huge mistake ... breaking all assets for everyone else
 
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I really don't want to see another email from N3V saying there are errors in them and can they be updated. The updated versions are already on the DLS.

There is a thread about this here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?122325-DLS-Cleanup-List-Maintenance

If the versions you uploaded did not obsolete the existing assets then they are, by definition, a new asset. You can't expect the system to work out that they are actually upgrades just because there is a post about it somewhere in the forum.
 
There is a thread about this here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?122325-DLS-Cleanup-List-Maintenance

If the versions you uploaded did not obsolete the existing assets then they are, by definition, a new asset. You can't expect the system to work out that they are actually upgrades just because there is a post about it somewhere in the forum.

Ah yes the place where only the chosen few are allowed to discuss problems.

I don't expect the system to work it all out after N3V did away with the obsolete table but it would be nice to have it sorted out.

Cheerio John
 
Ah yes the place where only the chosen few are allowed to discuss problems.

You can discuss it here, as indeed you are doing.

I don't expect the system to work it all out after N3V did away with the obsolete table but it would be nice to have it sorted out.

Uh? The obsolete table has not been done away with.

It's not a cleanup problem. It's a problem in CM/DLS that means that later versions of assets are selected as the default download even if they are not usable in the user's version of Trainz. That, in turn, discourages people from using the obsoleting procedure correctly, and incidentally creates the myth that a new version of an asset somehow destroys the older versions.
 
"Ah yes the place where only the chosen few are allowed to discuss problems."

John Whalen,

If you have something to ask in the Trainz Developers forum, post it here or PM me the question and I will forward it over. It's not a secret place; it's just locked to prevent clutter and keep the forum on topic, which you know can be difficult in the public forums.

John
 
~incidentally creates the myth that a new version of an asset somehow destroys the older versions.

An urban Myth ... huh ? ! ?

When an 04, 06 asset is updated to 09, 10, 12 trainzbuild, and uploaded to the DLS ... the trainz-build numeral is changed, requiring backdating the config file trainz-build numeral, ... and also the config file is changed so much that it does not work properly in 04, 06

When an 04, 06 asset is upgraded to T:ANE trainz-build, the config file is altered so very much, that the 04, 06 asset no longer is backdateable, and will not work in 04, 06 no matter what you do !

T:ANE is slowly destroying the 04, 06 assets ... and what assets it breaks, those assets are discarded by the wayside as garbage.
 
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An urban Myth ... huh ? ! ?

When an 04, 06 asset is updated to 09, 10, 12 trainzbuild, and uploaded to the DLS ... the trainz-build numeral is changed, requiring backdating the config file trainz-build numeral, ... and also the config file is changed so much that it does not work properly in 04, 06

When an 04, 06 asset is upgraded to T:ANE trainz-build, the config file is altered so very much, that the 04, 06 asset no longer is backdateable, and will not work in 04, 06 no matter what you do !

T:ANE is slowly destroying the 04, 06 assets ... and what assets it breaks, those assets are discarded by the wayside as garbage.

Well that's a consequence virtually all the games content being produced by the users. The forced upgrading of assets through the DLS makes little sense in this context, but you could never stop the original asset creators from making these updates and obsoleting their older assets. At this point you could argue that the creator doesn't really care that their asset no longer works in older versions if their focus is simply to enjoy the latest edition of Trainz with their work, if they did then I'm sure they would be using the obsolete table or uploading to third parties.. This isn't N3Vs fault however if the user does it of their own volition, but it doesn't go down well when users of older versions call out content creators for producing updates as we've seen a few times in the past on these forums.

Jack
 
T:ANE has proven itself as a destructive program, that inverts bogies, and sinks bogies into the ground, and forever destroys older assets, as the coding in T:ANE is so radically different, and this breaks older assets, as attachment point coding is not even the same as 04, 06, 09, 10, 12

When even I, and other 10 y/o amateurs, can go into a perfectly good working asset, and without permission from the original creator ... we can alter those assets, without permission from the original creator ... and totally change those assets, and re-upload them to the DLS to T:ANE standards ... there is something totally wrong, and illegal with the inexperienced rouge hoards updating, with the clean-up of the DLS, to any whim that which they feel fit to alter.
 
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I'm not saying that it doesn't. T:ANE does do some weird things that content creators who want to move forward need to adapt to. What I am saying is that it's completely down to the user if they want to modify their work to get it working with T:ANE, and it's also down to the user whether they want to keep the asset working in older versions.
 
~it's also down to the user whether they want to keep the asset working in older versions.

NO ... the altering of the 04, 06 asset is shoved down the throats or 04, 06 users, without the permission from the original creator,and suddenly all those assets are now T:ANE trainz-build, and can not be used in 04, 06 ... just as suddenly all the 04, 06 assets were magically upgraded overnight to 2.7, 2.9, 3.4 trainz-build ... which makes the older original versions not even downloadable anymore.

If T:ANE wants to function ... T:ANE itself should change it's coding, so that it does not break older assets.

When T:ANE breaks all assets use in 09, 10, 12 ... You will then see the depth, and extent, of this problem, of the inexperienced rouge hoards updating, with the clean-up of the DLS, to any whim that which they feel fit to alter.
 
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I'm fairly sure I did say I don't agree with the forced updating of the assets presently available on the DLS with a one month window for the original creator. The fact is though that nobody has any obligation to legacy users. If their product is no longer within the support life cycle, N3V doesn't need to cater for it, these versions no longer provide the sales required to operate. If the content creators themselves are the ones making these changes, you as an end user of an unsupported version of Trainz do not have many arguments in your favour I'm afraid.

Say for example I made a locomotive you liked, I have published a few, whether you like them or not is your business, but if I made an update to have it function correctly in a new version of Trainz, that's my business, if legacy users complain, it's not like I owe them anything, since I'm the one who put the time and energy in to create free content for myself firstly, and for the community secondly.

Older packages had their time, but N3V and the content creators are based on appearances trying to move forward. Individuals who won't move on and who insist that 04, 06 etc need all this content aren't the ones keeping N3V afloat, it's the people who pick up T:ANE and create content for it, whilst also updating content to ensure that these newer versions have the catalogue of content that makes Trainz as good as it is.

Perhaps I'm being harsh, but such is life. Legacy users can stick to third parties where internal interference from N3V is not possible, you can have your cake and eat it. The DLS though is a different beast altogether.

Jack
 
I repeat: You will care when ...

When T:ANE breaks all assets use in 09, 10, 12 ... You will then see the depth, and extent, of this problem, of the inexperienced rouge hoards updating, with the clean-up of the DLS, to any whim that which they feel fit to alter.

You will care when T:ANE2, breaks every T:ANE asset ... Not that I see N3V lasting that long.
 
If you don't update your assets on CM doesn't that leave them at the older version.
i have 14.000 updates on my TS12, i stopped using that since it changed an asset in ECML which rendered it faulty.

Ken
 
Yes ... unless you apply updates ... then it usually breaks them.

If you lose your PC due to failure ... and go to the White Pages DLS ... and go to re-download an asset, that is clearly labeled TRS2004, or TRS2006, you don't get that ... You instead get an updated 09, 10, 12 version of the asset, an asset that someone probably (screwed with it) altered without permission, and this usually breaks the asset in lower versions.

That's the real beauty of the DLS ... N3V doesn't even have to create any of the assets on the DLS ... 3rd party creators do all the hard work, and donate their assets to the N3V DLS ... and N3V doesn't even have to alter, and break all the older assets ... as someone 3rd party is ready and willing to jump up to the plate and screw with all the assets without permission from the original creator, usually breaking the assets ... so the DLS "Clean-Up" and DLS "Update", is a self destruct of the DLS, by hordes of unexperienced Community members, altering other peoples assets without permission.

Maybe, just maybe ... they should fix T:ANE so that it doesn't break all the assets on the DLS ... but that is not happening ... they are breaking, and reworking all the working assets, because they won't work in T:ANE
 
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Like SailorDan said, it's a bug in Trainz that they try to download items that have too high of a build number for that version. Upgraded assets *should* obsolete the old ones, and old versions of Trainz *should* ignore updated content higher than their version. Without the second, though, we end up with the mess we have now.

Curtis
 
In regards to breaking assets with T:ANE, it's not a new thing, there is a reason we needed a compatibility mode a few years ago to tide us over through technical changes that brought the content of the time to its knees.

As with the intended operation of trying to download assets with an appropriate build number relevant to a specific Trainz version, this really should be a working option. If it was always the intention but just doesn't work, why not...

The above in mind though, it shuts down the idea that 'updates break the content for older users'. These updates are not for you, they were never intended to work either, the idea being that an older option should be available is the intention, however if that doesn't work, that's why third parties such as TPR exist.

If content creators actually used the obsolete table properly however, this wouldn't be a problem since multiple versions would co-exist and CM would always pick the appropriate one. Given the amount of content available though, it's probably too late...

Jack
 
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