BNSF railroad adds new safety rules for crude oil trains
- Thread starter casanova419
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LandShark229
The Broken Brilliance
There' nothing 'special' about this oil compared to any other type they carry (I'm not saying it's safe, far from it). Better put, the type of oil carried can be viewed as a somewhat minor(ish) factor.
Unfortunately the risk still stands here, as speed can only do so much to prevent a potentially catastrophic incident. I would normally applaud BNSF for making an effort to prevent such incidents, but I'm afraid that this does not account for region-specific or track-specific conditions. There has recently been a major backlash against BNSF here in Seattle regarding the 3+ oil trains that pass through Great Northern Tunnel every day.
For those unfamiliar, the GN tunnel runs directly through the heart of the city, a few hundred feet below the streets of Downtown. The 100 year old tunnel is a key part of the BNSF mainline, and if an oil tender were to explode inside, the effects would be catastrophic.
What they're doing is at least an ok start, but there is still much more that needs to be done.
Unfortunately the risk still stands here, as speed can only do so much to prevent a potentially catastrophic incident. I would normally applaud BNSF for making an effort to prevent such incidents, but I'm afraid that this does not account for region-specific or track-specific conditions. There has recently been a major backlash against BNSF here in Seattle regarding the 3+ oil trains that pass through Great Northern Tunnel every day.
For those unfamiliar, the GN tunnel runs directly through the heart of the city, a few hundred feet below the streets of Downtown. The 100 year old tunnel is a key part of the BNSF mainline, and if an oil tender were to explode inside, the effects would be catastrophic.
What they're doing is at least an ok start, but there is still much more that needs to be done.
cascaderailroad
New member
The key phrases are: 35 mph "In cities" (not smaller towns), of "more than 100,000 population" ... the rest of areas still have high speed oil trains
According to the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, "crude oil from the Bakken region in North Dakota tends to be more volatile and flammable than other crude oils." You can download a copy of the report summarizing the analysis of Bakken crude oil from the PHMSA website.
MeowRailroad
CKRail
What if they split up unit trains, or put in more spacer cars? If 3 unit trains are going to one town, say a coal, grain, and oil, they could combine them into 3 trains with all commodities on them. So all the trains would have a coal section, a grain section, and an oil section.
LandShark229
The Broken Brilliance
Ah, thanks.
As for the prospect of splitting up the oil trains,
a) I think that might already be a practice, but only on smaller hauls
b) Probably a logistics nightmare, and a huge loss of efficiency
c) It still doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't matter if there's 10 tankers or 100 on a train. If just one explodes, it's bad.
LandShark,
To avoid running under Seattle they should route the oil and coal trains to Black Rv. Jct, Renton, Woodenville, Snohomish and then to Anacortes for oil and BC for the coal. What's that? I can't hear you over the screams of the East siders.
Before that could happen, many millions of $ would have to be spent on track improvements and some bridges would have to be rebuilt so we know that will never come to pass. I can not imagine the devastation that would be caused if a oil train caught fire in that tunnel.
Meow,
Oil and coal together? Not sure that is the best of ideas.
The transportation of hazardous products are always going to come with risks, it's just the way it is. Mitigating the risk would reduce the chances of an accident, but you can never get to 0%.
Regards,
To avoid running under Seattle they should route the oil and coal trains to Black Rv. Jct, Renton, Woodenville, Snohomish and then to Anacortes for oil and BC for the coal. What's that? I can't hear you over the screams of the East siders.
Before that could happen, many millions of $ would have to be spent on track improvements and some bridges would have to be rebuilt so we know that will never come to pass. I can not imagine the devastation that would be caused if a oil train caught fire in that tunnel.Meow,
Oil and coal together? Not sure that is the best of ideas.
The transportation of hazardous products are always going to come with risks, it's just the way it is. Mitigating the risk would reduce the chances of an accident, but you can never get to 0%.
Regards,
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
true, typically it is only 1-3 that leak or explode during these big fires you see.
MeowRailroad
CKRail
I made that post after a long day, and after I was off the forums I realized "Oil, coal and grain together? Aren't those all highly flammable?" :hehe:
cascaderailroad
New member
The Baltimore city tunnel had a derailment years ago, and the raging fire inside was just a regular merchandise train. Unknown if it was chemicals or oil, but the fireman had a tough time putting it out, as they needed full breathing apparatus in the densely smokey tunnel. Imagine a fire so intense that it explodes under streets and buildings, starting them on fire.
The Bakken oil field is a "Gold Rush" like nothing seen before the Yukon ... thousands of workers are flocking to desolate areas of Wyoming/Montana, anyone who can cook, or swing a hammer can get a job there ... nearby landowners kitchen sink faucets running water can be lit aflame using a Bic lighter ... as natural gas is a by product, that is not easily captures, thousands of drilling platforms are burning off the natural gas, in huge 100 foot plumes of flames. The thousands of Bakken oil field fires can be seen from the space shuttle.
The Bakken oil field is a "Gold Rush" like nothing seen before the Yukon ... thousands of workers are flocking to desolate areas of Wyoming/Montana, anyone who can cook, or swing a hammer can get a job there ... nearby landowners kitchen sink faucets running water can be lit aflame using a Bic lighter ... as natural gas is a by product, that is not easily captures, thousands of drilling platforms are burning off the natural gas, in huge 100 foot plumes of flames. The thousands of Bakken oil field fires can be seen from the space shuttle.
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The same across North Dakota as well. The towns are booming with high priced hotels and restaurants as they sap up the money from the influx of workers. Eventually this will all come to in end in one big bubble burst, but when we don't know.
I remember the B&O Tunnel derailment; It was in the news for some time. I wonder if the difficulties with putting the fire out were due to the amount of built-up spilled engine fuel, oil, grime, and muck that had accumulated in the tunnel for over a century before the derailment.
Hi everybody.
The big problem that comes with crude oil obtained by fracking is that it will always contain far higher levels of hydrogen sulphide than oil obtained by other traditional drilling methods. The hydrogen sulphide is contained within the crude oil in molecule form when extracted from the ground. However, during transportation by any method due to swirling and vibration the molecules move up through the oil to collect in gas form on the top of the crude shipment.
As many forum members will know, hydrogen sulphide is a very volatile vapour with a low ignition point. It is also very harmful if inhaled to human beings and can cause serious injury or death in even low concentrations. If the fracked crude oil is transported by Pipeline then the hydrogen sulphide can be extracted at set points along the pipeline, chemically treated and made inert. That stated, the same process cannot be carried out when the oil is being transported in tanker configuration either by rail or road.
Venting the gas from the top of the tank is not possible due to the hazard that would be caused to persons in the vicinity of the tank(s) if the vapour where to be inhaled. Therefore the tanks have to be moved in non-vented form which causes a build-up of the vapour above the crude oil as the journey progresses.
With all the above in mind, effective emergency planning with regard to railway tunnels where a fracked crude oil rail shipment had encountered an incident would be extremely difficult to envisage. If the hydrogen sulphide had escaped and ignited in only one or two tanks then extreme heat would quickly build up in the roof of the tunnel and travel along it. With the low ignition point of the hydrogen sulphide vapour in other tanks then even if still fully contained it would undoubtedly ignite, escape and further add to the fire fuel source in multiplying stages. The rest at this point can be left to the imagination.
Jkinzel, what you state above is undoubtedly true as everything we do in life carries some risk and not every hazard can be eliminated. However, since the introduction of industrial safety legislation here in United Kingdom in 1976, accidents in the workplace (and railways are a workplace) have been reduced by over 80% on the back of an ever-growing workforce.
For those of us who work in transportation safety the figure now stands at 88% and that figure we are extremely proud of. For the above figures mean that hundreds of thousands of people have gone off to work or travelled over the years and have returned home safely in the evening that would not have done so prior to the introduction of the legislation. We have not been able to bring everyone home safely in the evening but with the vast majority we have.
Bill
The big problem that comes with crude oil obtained by fracking is that it will always contain far higher levels of hydrogen sulphide than oil obtained by other traditional drilling methods. The hydrogen sulphide is contained within the crude oil in molecule form when extracted from the ground. However, during transportation by any method due to swirling and vibration the molecules move up through the oil to collect in gas form on the top of the crude shipment.
As many forum members will know, hydrogen sulphide is a very volatile vapour with a low ignition point. It is also very harmful if inhaled to human beings and can cause serious injury or death in even low concentrations. If the fracked crude oil is transported by Pipeline then the hydrogen sulphide can be extracted at set points along the pipeline, chemically treated and made inert. That stated, the same process cannot be carried out when the oil is being transported in tanker configuration either by rail or road.
Venting the gas from the top of the tank is not possible due to the hazard that would be caused to persons in the vicinity of the tank(s) if the vapour where to be inhaled. Therefore the tanks have to be moved in non-vented form which causes a build-up of the vapour above the crude oil as the journey progresses.
With all the above in mind, effective emergency planning with regard to railway tunnels where a fracked crude oil rail shipment had encountered an incident would be extremely difficult to envisage. If the hydrogen sulphide had escaped and ignited in only one or two tanks then extreme heat would quickly build up in the roof of the tunnel and travel along it. With the low ignition point of the hydrogen sulphide vapour in other tanks then even if still fully contained it would undoubtedly ignite, escape and further add to the fire fuel source in multiplying stages. The rest at this point can be left to the imagination.
Jkinzel, what you state above is undoubtedly true as everything we do in life carries some risk and not every hazard can be eliminated. However, since the introduction of industrial safety legislation here in United Kingdom in 1976, accidents in the workplace (and railways are a workplace) have been reduced by over 80% on the back of an ever-growing workforce.
For those of us who work in transportation safety the figure now stands at 88% and that figure we are extremely proud of. For the above figures mean that hundreds of thousands of people have gone off to work or travelled over the years and have returned home safely in the evening that would not have done so prior to the introduction of the legislation. We have not been able to bring everyone home safely in the evening but with the vast majority we have.
Bill
Since this is a build of vapors that cause the explosions, why not put the crude through some form of agitators which whip up or froth the crude before it gets put into the tanks? During this agitation the vapors can be collected into tanks and processed, as the crude is loaded into the tank cars for shipping. I don't think this would eliminate the complete hazard but make it less volatile.
Pipelines present another problem in our country due to the vast areas that they travel. There have been a number of recent incidents where this fracked oil has leaked by the tens of thousands of gallons or more before anything was done to stop the flow.
In general there is no 100% safe way of carrying the oil, but given my druthers I'd rather have one quick volatile explosion and clean up instead of ruining hundreds of miles of countryside with a leaky pipe.
John
Pipelines present another problem in our country due to the vast areas that they travel. There have been a number of recent incidents where this fracked oil has leaked by the tens of thousands of gallons or more before anything was done to stop the flow.
In general there is no 100% safe way of carrying the oil, but given my druthers I'd rather have one quick volatile explosion and clean up instead of ruining hundreds of miles of countryside with a leaky pipe.
John
cascaderailroad
New member
It would seem that a new petroleum refinery should be built in the central area where all the fracking is going on, and the capture of natural gas should be made manditory ... surely the refineries on the east coast US, like Marcus Hook Pa, have huge amounts of air and ground water pollution, further poisoning these communities, which are cancer clusters.
Back in the 90's there were millions of green pipe trains, all going west, through Altoona Pa. In my estimation that they better start laying a new cross country US pipeline, from the Bakken oil field, before another spate of violent derailment explosions surely are in the near future.
Back in the 90's there were millions of green pipe trains, all going west, through Altoona Pa. In my estimation that they better start laying a new cross country US pipeline, from the Bakken oil field, before another spate of violent derailment explosions surely are in the near future.
There is a good article in the April 2015 Trains magazine "5 New Facts to Know About Crude by Rail" that covers that issue.
recdriver1023
Member
In the 1970`s a gasoline tanker overturned on the Alaskan way Viaduct in seattle and almost destroyed the bridge.
Roger
Roger
cascaderailroad
New member
Keystone Pipeline rejected by President Obama
The Keystone Pipeline has just been rejected by President Obama, as it will not lower gas prices for consumers, and the construction would take decades to complete, requiring people being permanently relocated from their homes ... surely it would be a huge money pit, boondoggle, trying to bore pipeline tunnels through the middle of communities, under factories, highways and interstates.
So exploding oil trains are here to stay
The Keystone Pipeline has just been rejected by President Obama, as it will not lower gas prices for consumers, and the construction would take decades to complete, requiring people being permanently relocated from their homes ... surely it would be a huge money pit, boondoggle, trying to bore pipeline tunnels through the middle of communities, under factories, highways and interstates.
So exploding oil trains are here to stay
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