A bit sad

C

charlielima

Member
I wish to address a sad trend of late, if I may be permitted.

It seems as though when a person asks another or a company if they can or will be creating a particular type of train engine or rolling stock, they are shot down or called a “gimmie-pig” just because they wanted to know if the creation of said item was imminent or possible.

Now I realize that some of these inquirers may not be the most courteous of people seldom asking nicely or offering a “thank you” for the accomplishments of some very talented people but there are those who, afterseeing a certain engine, often state what a fine job the author has done, then asks if that author will be creating something else in the future. That person then is pounced on by the regular contributors to the forum and becomes a pariah, as one unworthy to contribute any kind of question, comment or idea to this forum.

Often times the blanket response to these individuals has been that they should download a very expensive piece of software, take one or two years to learn how the software works and create their own content in order that they will no longer have to request any creations from experienced and gifted artists.
That is so unfair!
We are not all gifted with a talent to create stunning pieces of railroad artistry. Many just don’t have it in their DNA, but they love trains and love running the trains and enjoy the incredible skills and variety of the creators out there.
I love listening to music, all kinds of music. I have asked a friend of mine to play a particular piece on the piano. He doesn’t have the music but will get the sheets and then play the piece. I cannot possibly learn how to read music then learn how to play the piano, and then sit down and play the music I like. It’s not a skill I possess, yet I still love music.
Many of the patrons of Trainz love trains, railroads, operations but do not have the skills, talents and time to create their own pieces. That is why they ask those who can if they could possibly create a certain piece.
I would love to see a Canadian Pacific AC4400CW, one of the most powerful, dependable and successful locomotives in North America created by the very talented artists at Jointed Rail or RRMods. I am a fan of CP Rail and its routes and not too keen on CSX, Conrail or NS. My enjoyment of CP equipment is shared by many in the community. But, I am apprehensive about asking and therefore have stopped inquiring as to the AC4400CW ever being created forTrainz because of the ensuing tirade of insults and derisions that would called down upon me for asking. I would not enjoy being discredited and being painted as selfish and unappreciative and all that would just turn me off Trainz forever, as I am sure it has done for many aficionados of the simulation in the past.

So please, a little more patience for the non-artists and lovers of Trainz out here, like me.
My $.02.

Thank you for your attention.
Claude
 
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2 other cents

charlielima said:
they should download a very expensive piece of software
Click to expand...
Blender is free. Go to http://www.blender.org/
Took me 6 weeks to learn it and build this.

We are not all gifted with a talent to create stunning pieces of railroad artistry.
Click to expand...
No, but we can all learn.
Now maybe we will not turn all into great artist, but at least all of us will learn how much work it is.

If you are not willing to learn to either...:
A) Be polite and see how much work it is to create content (and show this in your writing)
B) Willing to learn how to create content yourself
... than don't post.

Some people think it is only a few hours work to create a steam engine. Those people need to learn to do it themselves or learn that it takes many months and act accordingly.
 
Maybe this will help, Oknotsen:

54156039.jpg


Originally posted this in the "Trainz Memes" thread, post #382. As you can (hopefully) tell, I understand full how long it takes to build those works of art. Not all of us here are gimme-pigs.

Keep calm and think first,
 
VERY sad indeed shooting down such people who are genuinely asking for content which they can never create themselves and is often times criticized by some people who are content creator themselves.

Is it because some people can brag about, see what I have done, I learned 3DS Max in 24 hours, hence anyone else can do similar. Unfortunately, there are the ones who are gifted to do good content creations and there are also those who never ever will learn the difference between a vertice, an edge or a polygon.

What is wrong by simply asking here if someone/anyone is contemplating building/repainting such or such item? To me it seems, as presently not much else is happening in the forum, some people take it onto themselves to be the forum "police", sometimes rightfully so but often times just wasting their time, forum space etc. and generally upsetting other people who usually are helpful in this forum.

My opinion

Lennard
 
Mr. Oknotsen

Yes, you are right. Blender is free and you have proven yourself very capable of producing some fine content, some of which I use myself.
However, you are most truly blessed. Maybe some can learn Blender in 6 weeks and produce an amazing bridge.
But a few, like myself, do not have the resources, the time nor the skills to produce a locomotive or rolling stock whether it is on free graphics program or on a high end, heavy dollar graphics program.
Some wise person once said, "I can tell time but that doesn't mean I can make a watch."
Again, more patience for us unskilled people.
Thank you for your input.
Claude
 
You do realize the Gmax and Blender the two most common starting point bits of software, are free.

One of the best ways to learn the basics is to start by doing some re skinning, how about a CP AX4400CW

charlielima said:
I wish to address a sad trend of late, if I may be permitted.

Often times the blanket response to these individuals has been that they should download a very expensive piece of software, take one or two years to learn how the software works and create their own content in order that they will no longer have to request any creations from experienced and gifted artists.
That is so unfair!
We are not all gifted with a talent to create stunning pieces of railroad artistry. Many just don’t have it in their DNA, but they love trains and love running the trains and enjoy the incredible skills and variety of the creators out there.
I love listening to music, all kinds of music. I have asked a friend of mine to play a particular piece on the piano. He doesn’t have the music but will get the sheets and then play the piece. I cannot possibly learn how to read music then learn how to play the piano, and then sit down and play the music I like. It’s not a skill I possess, yet I still love music.
Many of the patrons of Trainz love trains, railroads, operations but do not have the skills, talents and time to create their own pieces. That is why they ask those who can if they could possibly create a certain piece.

Claude
Click to expand...
 
While I can see your point, Claude, two things immediately jump out at me:

First, some gimmepigs are just all-around pests. No need to elucidate too much; we all have seen them.

Second, and much more importantly, folks that want content should at least TRY to learn a program like Blender, repainting with Gimp, etc. I realize people can run up against a brick wall, but I'd have more respect for a person who tried and failed than one who never tried at all.

I have little artistic skill (despite having some quite accomplished artists in my lineage) and yet I still learned Blender, Gimp, etc. and even managed to learn some quite cool tricks, and made some interesting stuff. So, it's reasonable to feel that, if I can do it, anybody can at least spend a few hours trying.

Plus, it's extremely important to get more contributors into this hobby. There are far too few contributors and a whole lot of takers as it is: Our hobby will go the way of the dodo without new blood.
 
I too have tried GMax and Blender and failed - mostly through lack of available time but I do intend to have another go at Blender now that I have retired. Despite my pre-retirement expectations, lack of time is still an issue. But I have had, I think, a great deal of success learning how to reskin existing assets and to my suprise, I even managed to master texture groups and using Andi's SuperScript Library. Since I have dabbled in programming during my career, I may also have a go at scripting assets in the not too distant future.

Then I will again "face the beast" - Blender.

Its all fun!
 
If you haven't failed at learning to model, you don't want it enough. It took me 5 years of trying, failing, giving up, and repeating to finally get to the point where I wanted to share anything I made. It's been at least that long since, and I'm still not where I wish I was, but at least there's been improvement along the way. I tried asking for things first, and figured out, like others, that it rarely works. Unless you're naturally talented with something, including 3D modeling (which I wouldn't say I am), you're going to need to work to learn it. That's a lot of time, patience, effort, and desire. Whenever I see anyone who says they tried, failed, and gave up at 3D modeling, I'm always hoping they take the next step and try again. Even if they fail again, they're going to have learned more and gotten better at it.
 
How so? can you recommend a tutorial? The builtin one isn't very good. I made a flagpole with a flag!
ScreenShot2014-11-22at62828PM_zps8b377ac9.png
[/URL][/IMG]
 
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Some content creators are more willing to contemplate the idea of making certain models IF the one who requested it shows their dedication to the project and helps find the necessary plans, diagrams, and specifications required to actually build the model.

If the "gimmie pig" is unwilling to give up their time and resources to put forth an idea, why should the content creators? Their worlds don't revolve around making virtual models.
 
charlielima said:
It seems as though when a person asks another or a company if they can or will be creating a particular type of train engine or rolling stock, they are shot down or called a “gimmie-pig” just because they wanted to know if the creation of said item was imminent or possible.
Click to expand...

The attitude you are up against is "I've been through the pain and trouble of learning these applications, so you should go through it also." That something worthwhile must have a cost is so deeply ingrained in some people's attitudes that they simply cannot accept that a model they have slaved and sweated over should be given away for free. Ignore that the point of community is to allow others to benefit from the labours of some, or that it actually enhances one's status to be known as a contributor. The view is that if you haven't put in the time and effort to do it for yourself then you are not worthy of getting the benefit of my time and effort. The term 'gimme pig' tells you something significant about the sort of person who uses it.
 
Seems the best way to avoid this would be to contact the person or company privately via email or pm. Not on a public post that is presenting new content or on another subject. If the person or company is interested and would like feedback on the proposed item from the public, they can start a new thread asking for it.

Put yourself in the creators shoes, you just spent a year working on a projecy, hours upon hours of fine tuning, correcting, starting over, and now you're excited to share it, for free in many cases. And someones response doesn't even acknowledge the new item and worse is more concerned with what they'd rather see.
 
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I consider myself computer literate. I can figure out how to work many software programs. But, Blender was a nightmare for me. I rather translate Biblical Greek (which I do on occasion). So creating content is simply too far for me.

But Paint Shop Pro (poor man's Photoshop) and I play well together. I hope to get my reskinning to the level worthy of others wanting my stuff. I only wish there were more layered templates for locomotives available. It makes reskinning easier...although not necessarily easy.

I agree with the OP, sometimes the more experienced people have little patience with newbies. But I will agree as well some requests are poorly made.
 
Maybe 4-1/2 cents worth.

oknotsen said:
Some people think it is only a few hours work to create a steam engine. Those people need to learn to do it themselves or learn that it takes many months and act accordingly.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm.... Did not realize an AC4400CW was steam... And I seem to recall that a perfectly good mesh, enginspec and sounds are floating around here someplace... so aren't we arguing over a basic re-skin job here? (and I didn't hear a demand that it be meticulously weathered, either.) [sorry, oknosten. never could pass on a chance to bust chops].
oknotsen said:
No, but we can all learn.
Click to expand...
Some of are are eager to learn, but just don't have the time to play with the tools (and that's what self-learning requires: Play [and real play requires an absence of time constraints). But the biggest hurdle is "where to begin?"

I think the mark of a genuine Artist is a sense of responsibility to pass on - if not the artistry - at least the craftsmanship needed to have a fulfilling experience practicing the art. (In no way suggesting you don't. You have taken the time to help me out on a number of occasions, thank you.)


NSWGR_46Class said:
One of the best ways to learn the basics is to start by doing some re skinning, how about a CP AX4400CW
Click to expand...
Very good point. Wish I knew where to start. (actually I know exactly where to start: putting North County Transportation District livery on a Desiro). I just need to find one with tga textures so I have a pattern to follow...

oknotsen said:
Took me 6 weeks to learn [Blender] and build this.
Click to expand...
This is quite impressive. I need that. Gimmie that now. I said now. OK. I'll go get it myself. (doing that right now, :) see ya)
 
MeowRailroad said:
How so? can you recommend a tutorial? The builtin one isn't very good. I made a flagpole with a flag! The flag is crooked and the pole goes thru the bottom of the base:[/quote]

Read this here:

[url]http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?87755-Help-Getting-started-3d-modelling-for-TS12&p=970575&highlight=tutorial#post970575[/url]

You can also try this tutorial:

[url]http://www.doug56.net/Blender/page2.html[/url]

But a lot of the sequence of pages and steps is broken and out-of-order. You can kind of figure it out, but the first 3 video tutorials are the easiest way to get familiar quickly IMO. Watch each one at least twice before trying Blender, then go through them one or two more times. I know it's repetitious, but it works.
Click to expand...
 
Claude, you make good points.

There should be no harm in politely requesting things, and sometimes they are wanted by many people, not just the original requester. At the same time requesters should be prepared to calmly accept that sometimes creators can't or simply don't want to do stuff. They may not share the same interests, be busy on other things, view the project as beyond their modelling skills, be too tired, want a break from Trainz to play Far Cry 4, or maybe not even give a reason. And realise that some of us actually get quite stressed and conflicted when we have to say no.

One thing I will say, and it backs up what gd5150 said above, is that if a creator has just finished making something, they are most likely feeling quite exhausted after a battle with background research, 3D software, geometry, textures, LOD's, incomprehensible Wiki's and configs. Just take the time to appreciate - or at least focus comments on - what they have just done rather than jump straight into 'yeah that's fine, but what about doing this...' because it comes across as dismissive of the current effort and is demotivating.


.
 
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