SP1... as bad as they say?

I will apologise now for the bluntness for this post but frankly after 5 months I think I'm entitled to some gruffness.

I'm constantly being grilled for being anti-SP1. I'm told it does work and that anything I say doesn't matter in the slightest. Many people complain about certain features not working or that they are suddenly exposed to millions of errors that they don't know how to fix. So, here's one for the unsympathetic;

My SP1 install refuses to run anything that is not builtin, i.e. I try to open a route from a source that is not built-into the game and the whole game crashes; no explanation, no fix. Now, there must be fix for this as I have read that most people can get passed this obstacle at least before facing an issue, and if there isn't, I think I am on full ground to say that what people say about the SP1 HF4 patch is true, and being told to "get over it" is not going to keep me going for much longer.

Tim

In my life, SP1 has done nothing to wreck my Trainz experience. I don't see why people downgrade it as bad. I know, i've made fun of it (just look at my first few Trainz Memes posts), but i've seen no problems with my copy of Trainz.

As to your problems, Tim, i have no idea why Trainz would do that. Are any of your original files missing, like some of the important files? Other than that, i cannot explain this. Maybe Kieran or Shane can point you in the right direction.

Keep on truckin',

Timothetoolman said:

I'm constantly being grilled for being anti-SP1. I'm told it does work and that anything I say doesn't matter in the slightest.

Click to expand...

I have that problem. I try to make sure every piece of content I have is SP1 compliant, specifically having thumbnails. Things being faulty because of no thumbnails and DRM was the two reasons why I didn't install SP1.

Timothetoolman said:

My SP1 install refuses to run anything that is not builtin, i.e. I try to open a route from a source that is not built-into the game and the whole game crashes; no explanation, no fix. Now, there must be fix for this as I have read that most people can get passed this obstacle at least before facing an issue, and if there isn't, I think I am on full ground to say that what people say about the SP1 HF4 patch is true, and being told to "get over it" is not going to keep me going for much longer.

Click to expand...

What you're going thru is a perfect example I of why I didn't install SP1, because it seems to make more problems than it fixes.

SP1, HF4. Worth it. Yes there are a few bugs, and some things to fix. But if you take the time to fix the issues, things are fine. And bugs well be present in any thing you program.

The main issues for me are the lack of stability in CMP, the inability to zoom out in Surveyor to delete baseboards (though in previous discussions N3V postulated that was actually a bug which was now fixed) and a few other wrinkles.

However as a route builder, again as I've stated before, working in SP1 HF4 as opposed to 49922 is the only way to, 1. Get some of the latest assets created or updated for this version into the game and 2. To ensure maximum forward compatibility into T:ANE. Oh and 3, the spline "detach" bug at interactive objects appears to have been cured, as have the black sinkholes if you do a terrain texture replace.

So, love it or hate it, SP1 HF4/61388 is a necessary evil.

Can I check if you installed any content updates recently? I am aware of two 'botched' updates for built-in SP1 KUIDs that have affected a lot of content.

Shane

Shane, I have installed no content updates in the last 4 SP1 install attempts. All built-in content works, but nothing in the way of 3rd party routes (including those on the DLS) do not work, crashing the game.

Tim

Can I check if you had any errors during the SP1 patch process? Failing that, a lot of content will have been affected by the new validation in SP1 - if you've got content from third-party sites, check their sites for SP1-related updates.

Shane

Shane,

No errors were encounted during the patching process, and I should point out I have been patching a fresh install of the game, with no additional content being added until after patching was complete.

Tim

I installed SP1 this week, had all kinds of problems, and tried rolling it back and Trainz said the data base was corrupted and I needed to reinstall Trainz. I deleted the entire Install, and purchased Run 8. Couldn't be happier.

If one was really smart they would have a PC that can have at least 2-3 versions of TS12 on it ... and patched each version to the next higher build ... and test out what has been gained / lost in each separate installation.

But to say: "I deleted the entire Install, and purchased Run 8. Couldn't be happier".

Well good reidence to you ... hope you're happier there ... BYE :wave:

I don't even move to a newer version of Windows without keeping the previous one working for at least 12 months, easily done by dual booting.
With Trainz, if you have the space, it's quite simple to keep a previous version before patching, just copy the contents of say the TS12 folder to a new folder called TS12 Old. Patch the original install and if it all goes wrong, just delete the TS12 folder and rename TS12 Old to TS12. I actually use build numbers for older versions so I have
TS12 - 49922 and TS12 which is the latest version.

Big hint, if you have a lot of locally modified stuff installed with warning showing you are going to have major problems patching, for DLS items revert to original before patching if possible and fix any warnings and errors on the rest before attempting to patch.

After patching there may be a lot of warnings and errors, select the lot and right click > Show Errors and Warning will more than likely correct most of them, just leaving genuine problems.

Using System Restore to fix a program is a waste of time, as it just makes the problem worse, It's System Restore, System being the Operating System as in Windows, not xyz program restore.

Yea...

@Robert2d6
If you want to flame one product in favor of another, go do it on the webpage/Forum for the product you ended up with. Anything else is in the utmost bad taste. Have fun driving on the moon, and we'll stick with Trainz. Thanks.

@Timothetoolman
It sounds to me like you outlined 2 Problems. The obvious one (Issues with SP1HF4), and then another where you're tried of taking grief for coming out against SP1HF4?
For the First one, logic states that if the majority of users (And were talking the VAST majority here) have no issues, and a select few do, then there is probably something going on to affect the select few, but the program itself is almost certainly sound.... So logically speaking one has to deduce that that SP1HF4 is sound, and though I'm sure you're having problems, they're not something thats going to cause issues for most Users.... So why be so anti-SP1HF4 in the first place? Why not instead try to learn about whats causing the issue?

Plenty here have offered tons of advice (And though I think some is more pertinent then others), why not try taking some of these folks "eager to help" attitude and try it all again from the top. Fresh Install, heck do it on a new computer if you want (If you can). If it doesn't work to your satisfaction, but you want to try to continue to fix it, CHeck the Logs and Post them somewhere people can see them. Run Trainzdiag Util. You won't EVER "Fix it" by just deciding the program is bad (Particularly in the face of so much evidence to the contrary), deleting it, and burying your head in the sand over it.....

Now, Second Problem. If you don't like taking Grief for an opinion, don't bring it up. I would challenge any assertion to the effect of "But people are ALWAYS asking my opinion of SP1HF4!"..... What do you prefer? Keeping your own council and going about your business? Or spouting your beliefs everywhere and either taking grief from people for an unpopular opinion everywhere you go or worse, fighting people everywhere you go over it? I have better things to do then argue with people I don't know, will almost certainly never know, and probably don't even want to know over something as trivial as opinion (And in many cases even over proven fact when they're just being too pig-headed to see the writing on the wall). Ill do it anyway sometimes if I'm bored, but thats a self-inflicted Wound......

Anyway, in Closing, I hope you give SP1HF4 another shot, and make use of the many many other folks here offer of help. The more information you provide them with, the more likely you'll get the issue sorted out. As a Vague Guess, from what little info you've posted, I'll take a shot in the dark and suggest perhaps you're running alot of Older Content? If so that might be contributory to why its not working in SP1HF4, to which I would say no matter what you do, you're going to have to learn to repair that older Content going forward. Tons of others have done it, its not too difficult, Shane here Made it alot easier then it used to be. SP1HF4 is here to stay, and if you think T:ANE is going to be any better you're kidding yourself....

Good Luck,
Falcus

hey timothetoolman, if you have the option, try to download the LATEST install files for build 61388. After you download it, then make a backup of your currently installed version. Or, try installing on another computer if you have this option. Then proceed with installing the already up to date 61388 version. Test it out for a while. Then slowly import your backup of the older version items. I know there are some content creations that need to be fixed, as not everyone is going back and fixing their creations. RRMods and Jointed Rail have done a pretty darn good job of stickin' with rules and sure they have gone back and fixed some things. But, see if this suggestion can work and give you more desired results. I hate patching it, just one full swoop install is so much easier.

Paul

There are a lot of words in this thread, but the simple answer to the question is "no".

Wrong post, sorry

Lennard

Seems the asker answered his own question.

While SP1 did provide some noticed improvements, there were not enough to justify me spending hours to fix thousands of faulty assets because they didn't have a thumbnail. Outside of that, I didn't really notice any massive issues other than sometimes freezing up for extended periods that made it so bad that it wasn't worth it. I however, refuse to patch to SP1 because of error checking, DRM, and breaking assets that didn't need broken.

PS. Former SP1 user that is pre-SP1 again.

To be honest, the validation that was brought in in TS12 SP1 should have been there from the start. There's no reason why an asset shouldn't have a thumbnail (Download Station assets require one anyway), sound files should be correct as well.

Shane

Firstly, from what I have been reading I am still getting the "get over it" jibberish (at least that is how I am interpreting it) so at least allow me to describe my 4 previous experiences with this patch;

.First attempt from 4 months ago. Was suggested I make a fresh install. I did, patched, copied all my content from my current build, no go
.Second attempt. Copied current TS12 folder so I had 2 identical programmes, both worked. Patched one, same problem.
.Third attempt. Fresh install, installed content, patched with new patch install (note different from first attempt), same problem.
.Final attempt. Fresh install, patch, add one 3rd party route, game crashes.

For those telling me that I should stop dissing SP1HF4, tell me, have you tried installing and patching a game four times and still get the same result? You you ensured every single item of content is error free and thumbnail compliant before attempting to play, only to be dismayed to see each attempts yields no positive results. As I have said, there is nothing to suggest this should happen; no errors from the Traindiag, no errors in content manager, even a fresh patch download (which I believe was something like 1.5GB) and each time I growl in frustration whenever I try to fix the problem.

I should point out I am not giving up on SP1 (where, big surprise ain't it) but it's a hard ask to keep dealing with a problem that shouldn't be there, especially considering this is meant to fix problems, not cause them.

Tim