Discussion Regarding Image Editing

As I was the one to bring percentages into this, I feel I should clarify a few things.

When I say "Less then 100% Trainz", I meant specifically when you have hacked part of the picture out and replaced it with another picture all together... To use the above "Human" Metaphor, I'm talking Frankenstein, not Heritage . If you view humans through different lenses, Panoramic, Rose colored, w/e, you only change their appearance however. If you change their clothes, you also change their appearance. IE, just because you make your shot sharper or remove TS's poor ability to differentiate between distance, doesn't mean the shot isn't still 100% Trainz. Even if you B&W it, or Sepia, or make it brighter etc etc.

Its once you start indiscriminately hacking them up together when you start to have issues. As flawed as this metaphor is really, for what I'm trying to demonstrate, maybe that will work better. My personal issues do not include, nor do I believe many here see that (Indeed, I have yet to see a single person mention *Specifically*), "Filters, Crops, or Lighting changes" as "Unacceptable"......

Rather, until someone steps in and makes their opinions more clear on this point (And though I'm sure some here do believe them unacceptable), I think the biggest issue most of the people that object to "Editing" is the idea that you might remove a mountain that was in your shot and replace it with a picture of a Mountain from the internet... A Hill, A Beach, a Road, a Car, w/e...... And that I believe is what most people here would object to the most. Once you remove the 10% of the shot that was taken up by the 32 Bit Car on the road at the crossing in your shot and replaced it with a pic of your favorite Camero, or the 25% that was the Painstakingly molded but poorly textured mountain to replace it with a shot of your local favorite Mountain..... Then its no longer 100% trains, but 65% Trainz, 35% whatever else you dug up off your HD or the Internet.

Falcus
 
Gentlemen,

Looks like there has been at least a preliminary determination by an N3V person:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...June-22-2014-(No-Theme)&p=1302554#post1302554

As it stands, we see no issue with edited screenshots being shown in the competitions, it's up to the voters to vote for those they think are the best. We will display the winner in the newsletter irrespective of it being edited or not. If you think an image isn't appropriate, it is your decision to not vote for them.

The tense appears to envelope the near term.

IMHO, with this stance, N3V is not putting its best foot forward in that: a) these contests, advertize in the Trainz newsletters, distill down to an event partially Trainz, and more importantly, b) demonstrates a casual use of terminology (i.e. "screenshot" rather than "image") in their promotional advertising.
 
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Gentlemen,

Looks like there has been at least a preliminary determination by an N3V person:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...June-22-2014-(No-Theme)&p=1302554#post1302554



The tense appears to envelope the near term.

IMHO, with this stance, N3V is not putting its best foot forward in that: a) these contests, advertize in the Trainz newsletters, distill down to an event partially Trainz, and more importantly, b) demonstrates a casual use of terminology (i.e. "screenshot" rather than "image") in their promotional advertising.

Do you realize how many other games release official screenshots (and I'm not talking about competitions, like advertising screensots) that are edited?

Almost all of them.

peter
 
You must be kidding, Peter. I thought TS12 would look like this on my PC!

2.jpg


Regardless, SSoTW is not an exercise in advertising or promotional material so all references to that are moot.
 
Just to throw my two cents in....I didn't add anything to my shot, which was the one that apparently started all this mess. I blended the water and shoreline a little bit and tried to clean up the abrupt end on the mountain backdrop; a bit of adjusting with the color saturation and added a stained photo paper texture, and that's all I did. The waves and stuff were all in the original unedited screenshot. I have done more to some of my shots and no one made a fuss until now...

Basically, I have to say that if you don't like it, don't vote for it. If people - including me - find that their "retouched" shots don't get votes, maybe they'll try something else. But I don't see how this discussion all got started with my shot when I know other folks have posted obviously edited shots, some gorgeous with just the right effect, some absolutely ghastly with lens flare, et cetera, and nobody griped or groused. I'm not the first and I surely won't be the last.

Cheers :)
 
Do you realize how many other games release official screenshots (and I'm not talking about competitions, like advertising screensots) that are edited? Almost all of them. peter

Hi Peter, agree w/Nicky thats a different animal. Insofar as my statement - There is a difference between advertising software with augmented screenshots and publishing press releases with a misnomer/mischaracterization in the verbiage. A conscientious company strives for best accuracy in public releases: one element perceived as inaccurate by the reader can reduce his/her credibility of the balance of the release. Word accuracy is much more objective than picture accuracy.
 
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Well there are several ways too look at this problem..But I think the Decision should be made by N3V..It is there Forum..It is there newsletter that they distribute..It is there promotional Idea in the First Place..What do you think??
 
Well there are several ways too look at this problem..But I think the Decision should be made by N3V..It is there Forum..It is there newsletter that they distribute..It is there promotional Idea in the First Place..What do you think??
I don't think they've put their best foot forward on the related press releases for the reasons expressed in the finale of post #46.
 
You know, my greatest fear of this Competition will now turn into "Can you Top This"..I can Photoshop better then you..
 
This is really getting tiring.

Now, just in case you haven't read past the thread title:

The Discussion is unnecessary for me. I give my vote for a good Picture, edited or not. It's all the same for me.

Greetings
Epo:)

+2

Considering most competitions don't get that many entries, 2 winners is one too many. If you can use your surveyor skills, other content creator's skills, angles, lighting, asset placement and prototypical expertise to persuade voters, why shouldn't you be able to use your photoshop skills too?

Jamie

using software like Photoshop doesn't always improve the image

To me a screenshot is a screenshot, regardless of contents or how much editing its gone through. After all, its still Trainz, and if this competition is meant to bring the best out of Trainz users, perhaps it shows that some participants are willing to go just that much further to achieve perfection. And besides, its the voter's choice who wins, not the entrants.

Tim

E) The rules of SSotW do not disallow filters, if you don't like it, you don't have to vote for it, as has been stated. What other people want to vote for is their choice, but if you want to boycott it yourself, go ahead. But you'll be working against your own goal, as you'll be discouraging Trainzers from both sides of the argument. If you sit back, it can grow, and eventually it may actually have enough participants to split into two categories. But if you boycott it, it may slow down, and you'll be detracting from the fairness by arguing for it.
F) I don't know about you all but I can generally make a good guess about what the original screenshot looked like, and in doing so I can grade on how well it is composed and how well it is edited. This isn't unfair, it's simply adding another category of judgement, and that actually goes both ways because the only difference is that unedited has one less detail to look over, and so it's just like making every piece count for more. There is no advantage here, because the editors have to do more work, and it doesn't always(or even usually) make a screenshot look any better, at least in my opinion. All I see is that the creator is treating a screenshot as they would a photo.
 
Many good points were made from both sides, it was a healthy discussion, and everyone got to speak their peace.
 
~snip~ ... and everyone got to speak their peace.
I got the impression that not every post was peaceful.:eek:

My piece has now been spoken.

Except for these last two lines, which have had some image editing (text size and colour), this post has not been photo-shopped.
Feel free to ignore it. :D
 
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