Route Uploading 101

magickmaker

New member
Also titled, how NOT to get the forum members angry at you, or your route removed from the DLS.

I have, in all honesty, been thinking about posting this for some time now. Years in fact. However, I worried that by doing it, I would in doing so anger some of the newer members of the forum, causing them to think I was saying "don't bother uploading..." However that's not the case. Instead, I'm offering something of a better understanding of the pitfalls you face when uploading a route to the DLS. In particular "rebuilds" or routes which were previously unfinished.

Now some of you know what has prompted this, and some don't. Without going into many of the details, allow me to at the very least offer a synopsis.

In 2006 or 2007, I uploaded a bare bones route to the DLS. I did this, not so much because I felt the route was finished, but because I needed a better way to save the route while I was changing to a newer computer. I noted, at the time, on the forums that if anyone wanted to finish the route that they were free to do so, long as I was credited for the work I had completed to that point. Fast forward to 2012-2013, I return to the forums and notice a number of discussions about the route. Thinking it was a popular route by now, I check the DLS and find that another user had uploaded the same route I created (using my original content) with the only changes being adding two or three gradients which I missed. Everything else, including some of the confusing and improper trackwork I created, was left exactly as I had done it. However, as per the usual, no credit was given, and the user in question was passing the route off as entirely his work. I did try to have the second route removed, but ran into some problems due to the time that had passed and my changing computers. Whatever the case, the route remains up, and brings me to the meat of this walkthrough.


When you decide to upload a route, no matter what the type, the DLS says clearly that you must have permission from all content creators involved to do so. That means whoever made the track, structures, and foliage; as well as textures and any other included items. Generally speaking, when it refers to scenery items, the system will find each unique KUID, and list that content creator, thus serving to give them credit. HOWEVER, routes themselves do not do this. It is then left up to you the user to do so, typically adding "based on original route by..." or "Thanks to <so and so> for the base for this route." Leaving this out (as in the example I mentioned) can prompt a situation where the original creator can ask for the content to be removed, due to no credit being given.

So how do you protect yourself in this situation?

Before uploading a route based off of another person's work, you should do the following.

1.) Attempt to contact the creator with a private message.
Now this may take time, and you may even never hear back from the person. However, as their content comes first, it is only with their permission that you are able to upload. Sure, you could do it anyway, as I noted, but as I also said; this could cause the person to request it be taken down.
2.) Attempt to contact the creator with a message here on the forum.
Some people don't always check their private messages, or have inboxes too full to actually receive messages. For this reason, it's usually easier to post a forum post titled "Calling <so and so>" to ask permission. Again, you may not get a response, but in doing this you create a paper trail that shows you DID attempt to contact them. Ideally you should wait about a week or two for the person to have a chance to respond.
3.) If you can not contact the person, then you should place credit in your description that references the original creator.
By placing reference, you are giving the proper credit to the original creator, and presenting a situation where it is not so much impossible (it's not) but improbable that your finished or redesigned route will be removed. Ninety percent of the time, when content is removed from the DLS, it's done simply because no proper credit was given. Placing this credit then, would obviously prevent this situation.
4.) No matter WHAT, always honor the original creator's wishes.
This is sometimes a sticky situation, but it may come about that at a later date the original creator, for whatever reason; requests you to remove the route. This could be because they have finished the route themselves and want to show it as it was supposed to look, or they aren't overly pleased with what you've done. In some cases, this isn't overly damaging to your work, since (especially in complete rebuilds) you can reasonably say that the route is entirely different. However, it's good policy, and etiquette to still respect and honor the original creator's wishes. In most situations, you should be able to remove the content and then change the description to note it was inspired by the other person's work, but does not reflect that. However, in some situations, it may mean that you can't reupload the route. Well, not "can't." More like shoudn't. If for example all you did was add one or two grades, then the question becomes how different the route is. If they are far too similar, then it's possible that the creator would issue a takedown request anyway. Since no one wants this to happen, it's better to err on the side of caution and not re upload, or to remove the content.
5.) If your content has been removed by an original creator, don't take to the forums to start a flame war.
Common sense this one. Just because you felt you were entitled to have it up on the DLS, doesn't mean you are given carte blanche to upload it. Having it taken down means that there was something wrong, or it was far too similar to be considered new work. Instead of going to the forums to complain, try contacting the original creator to see what was wrong. Be civil, and understanding, and pay close attention to rule 4.
6.) Do not ignore attempts to contact you through forum posts or private messages.
In my case, the first thing I did upon discovering the uncredited upload, was to attempt to contact the new creator both through forum posts and private messages. Thanks in large part to the way the forum records when a person last posts, I knew that a day after my attempts to contact that he had read my messages, but had ignored them. Don't be that guy. If you get a message that says "hey, why didn't you credit me for xyz" don't just ignore and hope it goes away. In some cases, yes, it might do just that. However typically when work is found to be uncredited, the original creator will first attempt to contact the new creator through PM's and forum posts long before they decide whether or not to attempt to have the content removed. Ignoring such posts or private messages sends a message to the original creator that you do not care about the work they have done, and are attempting to pass it off as your own original work. Doing so will cement the idea in their mind and possibly drive them to attempt removal.

In the end, it really isn't that hard to get permission to upload something if you really try doing so. Even without permission, by at the very least giving credit where credit is due will both save you headaches, and above all else, preserve your standing with the community as a whole. Let's face it, no one wants to be known as the guy that stole someone else's work and passed it off as their own.
 
Good post there. What I will add though is it's wise to read the config.txt files for the route it is being based on (specifically the license tag), as some creators will specifically state how they want their content distributed (or not as the case may be).

Shane
 
To add to this:

Creators, add your email address to the route (or any asset for that matter) config file.
Code:
contact-email                           "me@there.com"
This makes it easier for people who do like to contact you and easier for you to prove it is your asset (as re-uploaders half the time don't bother to change anything to the config file).
 
hey, sorry to necro, i know i may never get a response cause of how old this thread is but i thought itd fit here, i have a couple of questions that the pre-upload warning/agreement thing didnt seem to cover. 1) (and this relates more to your post) where do i find the config file? im still new and havent messed around in the files overly much. 2) (this is my main question) where does the portal stand with edits of like inbuilt/dlc routes?

cause me and my friend wanted to do mp together, but mp sessions wont let you spawn trains and mps wont let you spawn any rolling stock thats not included with routes whether its dlc or not. so i thought my only way to get it setup so we could play with our T1s and DL Class aussie diesels was to edit them into an existing route... so i put some of each into the mp session for kickstarter county 2 but it wont let me overwrite the existing session and the newly created session apperently needs to be on the dls to work... so wheres the portal stand on that sort of stuff? would i be allowed to upload it without getting in trouble or is that sort of stuff a no no?
 
hey, sorry to necro, i know i may never get a response cause of how old this thread is but i thought itd fit here, i have a couple of questions that the pre-upload warning/agreement thing didnt seem to cover. 1) (and this relates more to your post) where do i find the config file? im still new and havent messed around in the files overly much. 2) (this is my main question) where does the portal stand with edits of like inbuilt/dlc routes?

cause me and my friend wanted to do mp together, but mp sessions wont let you spawn trains and mps wont let you spawn any rolling stock thats not included with routes whether its dlc or not. so i thought my only way to get it setup so we could play with our T1s and DL Class aussie diesels was to edit them into an existing route... so i put some of each into the mp session for kickstarter county 2 but it wont let me overwrite the existing session and the newly created session apperently needs to be on the dls to work... so wheres the portal stand on that sort of stuff? would i be allowed to upload it without getting in trouble or is that sort of stuff a no no?

It won't work. Updating or changing, meaning adding or deleting information such as train or asset information within a config.txt file will not make a difference. The string-data and KUIDs listed within the config.txt file for a session, or a route for that matter, are there for our reference only when we search for assets. The actual information is kept in the data files which reference the actual content in the database.

With that said, editing or modifying a portal asset will not change anything in the route or session anyway because that information is kept in sesston and route config.txt file and data files.

The config.txt file for an asset is located in the asset data folder. The file is actually a binary data file that gets decompiled when you edit it in Content Manager by right-clicking on an asset and choosing Open... Configuration file.

The right way of doing what you want to do is for both of you to own the requisite DLC or choose in-built assets for your multiplayer sessions.
 
It won't work. Updating or changing, meaning adding or deleting information such as train or asset information within a config.txt file will not make a difference. The string-data and KUIDs listed within the config.txt file for a session, or a route for that matter, are there for our reference only when we search for assets. The actual information is kept in the data files which reference the actual content in the database.

With that said, editing or modifying a portal asset will not change anything in the route or session anyway because that information is kept in sesston and route config.txt file and data files.

The config.txt file for an asset is located in the asset data folder. The file is actually a binary data file that gets decompiled when you edit it in Content Manager by right-clicking on an asset and choosing Open... Configuration file.

The right way of doing what you want to do is for both of you to own the requisite DLC or choose in-built assets for your multiplayer sessions.

so is what youre saying it wouldnt work reguardless? even tho we both have the loco/rolling stock dlcs i tried to add? is that also why when im on mps sessions the only locos/rolling stock that show up are ones included in the route dlcs i have? but not loco/rollingstock assets from non-route dlcs?

basically both me and my friend have access to kickstarter country 2 (i think it was included with the game) and both of us own the PRR T1 dlc and the ANR DL class national rail pack dlc, but we've been wanting to so some mp togther using said dlc assets. hence why i tried to make a new/edited session for kickstarter county 2 and added in a few of locos from the dl class and a few t1s in through the editor/surveyor.

sorry if i sound dumb haha, im new to trainz and all this sorta stuff. basically tldr we both own all the dlcs and assets needed for the edits i made i was just wondering if 1) now if itd even work and theyd show up and 2) if itd even get approved cause it has dlc assets in it.
 
so is what youre saying it wouldnt work reguardless? even tho we both have the loco/rolling stock dlcs i tried to add? is that also why when im on mps sessions the only locos/rolling stock that show up are ones included in the route dlcs i have? but not loco/rollingstock assets from non-route dlcs?

basically both me and my friend have access to kickstarter country 2 (i think it was included with the game) and both of us own the PRR T1 dlc and the ANR DL class national rail pack dlc, but we've been wanting to so some mp togther using said dlc assets. hence why i tried to make a new/edited session for kickstarter county 2 and added in a few of locos from the dl class and a few t1s in through the editor/surveyor.

sorry if i sound dumb haha, im new to trainz and all this sorta stuff. basically tldr we both own all the dlcs and assets needed for the edits i made i was just wondering if 1) now if itd even work and theyd show up and 2) if itd even get approved cause it has dlc assets in it.

Yes, Kickstarter County 2 is included with TRS22.

MP requires everything to be built-in or on the DLS. I'm not sure if DLC will work.

Your session also needs to have the multiplayer rule enabled.

<kuid:447264:1045> Multiplayer Rule

This is built in. You edit your session and then open Edit Session add in that rule to make your session a multiplayer session.
 
Along the lines of the OP, in February Bravecat uploaded a route <kuid:282277:100079> 0 Great Northern Railroad Scenic Division 1893-1900 which is a direct copy of <kuid2:411884:104461:1> 0 Great Northern Railroad Scenic Division 1893-1900 by Funnnyfarm. This is OK, as Funnnyfarm left Trainz with a statement of release of all his assets allowing this, but Bravecat made no change to the Description, so it still reads "I created the route in Tane.", and other first-person references. He also left in Funnnyfarm's email address. I sent him a PM mentioning that he should change the Description on both of these counts but got no response. Not sure if there is anything else to do.
 
Yes, Kickstarter County 2 is included with TRS22.

MP requires everything to be built-in or on the DLS. I'm not sure if DLC will work.


DLCs will work as they are considered official content - provided they are downloaded from N3V's store or from Steam.
If a session requires some DLC(s) to be installed, then all players will need to own it else it'll prevent them from joining.

Just wanted to add this.
 
DLCs will work as they are considered official content - provided they are downloaded from N3V's store or from Steam.
If a session requires some DLC(s) to be installed, then all players will need to own it else it'll prevent them from joining.

Just wanted to add this.

Thank you, I wasn't sure if it was usable or not. I'll remember that for the future.
 
There doesn't seem to be a clear license system in play. Software developers and users have grappled with this for some time and clear license conditions are often in play. Other than copyright restrictions in the country of origin, what licenses if any are in play here? Open source anyone? I tended to think everything was owned by Trainz/N3B, but many routes in the DLC are clearly just bare bones for users to build on.
 
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