Prototype Track Data Available (a MUST read if you model the Northeastern USA!!)

ScottyW

New member
Greetings from Scott J. Whitney (a.k.a. ScottyW)!! I have been a Trainz user since version 1.0 and although I haven't been able to do as much with it as I would like, I continually strive for greater accuracy in route recreation. As it turns out, a completely separate (from Trainz) project I have been working on has blossomed into an out of control fountain of information. I am referring to my ever increasing database of prototype track and signal information in the northeastern United States.

This project started innocently enough when I was searching for grade and curve charts for just ONE rail line when the company I have worked for the past 33 years took over a new operation. That search landed me 98% of the Boston & Maine Railroad condensed profile charts and I immediately knew that these needed to be shared with the world. I created Track Charts Volume 1 (of course it really had no volume number since it was the only one) and released it to the public with just enough cost to cover creation and shipping expenses. Suddenly, more people stepped forward with even more data and I released updated disks (revisions) up until #9 when I ran out of room on a single CD. Keep in mind that a single CD can hold THOUSANDS of two-color GIF images (black & white). I then had to move on to new CD's and am now currently working on my SEVENTH and it occurred to me that I had never told the Trainz community about these!

So here it is, I have all of the following CD's and they are all the same price each, $10+$2 shipping in the USA ($3 to Canada) by mail. I can also offer direct download via Dropbox.com by request and accept PayPal for all. Here's the list, you will need to go to each page to see all the details, far too much to list here:

http://home.comcast.net/~nmro/products-charts.htm -- Volume 1, Rev.9: Northeastern Railroad Track Charts
http://home.comcast.net/~nmro/products-charts2.htm -- Volume 2, Rev.2: New Haven Railroad West - Land valuation Maps west of the Central Vermont Railroad.
http://home.comcast.net/~nmro/products-charts3.htm -- Volume 3: New Haven Railroad East - Land valuation Maps east of the Central Vermont Railroad.
http://home.comcast.net/~nmro/products-charts4.htm -- Volume 4: Delaware & Hudson Railroad - 99% of the D&H land valuation maps on ONE CD!!
http://home.comcast.net/~nmro/products-charts5.htm -- Volume 5: Delaware Lackawanna & Western Railroad - Land Valuation maps of the DL&W east of Binghamton, NY all the way to the Hudson River.
http://home.comcast.net/~nmro/products-charts6.htm -- Volume 6: Northeast Railroads Track Charts - Collections of several northeastern lines and includes condensed profiles, valuation maps and more.

The best way to describe the areas I have covered so far is to say all of New England and then into New York as far west as Fonda, NY and then south to Binghamton, NY, further south to Scranton, PA and then east to the coast again.

I'm currently working on Volume 7 and that will be all of the Erie Railroad land valuation maps east Binghamton, NY when completed. After that it's the rest of the Erie oall the way to Ohio!

If you wish, you can also see the rest of my photo collections on CD at: http://home.comcast.net/~nmro/products.htm

I am also fully open to making deals on multiple item orders to save money on postage and through discounts. I do stress that the data collections are done as a labor of love so that they can be had by everyone as cheaply as possible. We stress preservation through distribution. The more people that have this data, the safer its future is for all to enjoy! Do you have good data to share?
Email me directly at: sjwhitney(at)comcast.net with any questions.:Y:
 
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Hi Scott,

Is there by chance any information on the Boston and Maine? I'm working on a prototype project for the West End, North Adams and Hoosac Tunnel region.

I also edited your post to make your email address not so tempting to SPAM bots. People can just replace the (AT) with an '@' for your actual email.

Regards,

John
 
99% of all the historic condensed profiles (trach charts) for the B&M are in Volume 1 along with B&M Z-Plans (that show signal layouts) and aspect charts that show what the signals can all give for indications.

Volume 6 has all of the N-Plan interlocking signal diagrams for the entire B&M railroad and also has all of the land valuation maps for west of Mass. That is, in Vermont and New York.

In case you are interested, I have been working on the B&M's Hoosac tunnel electric zone as one of my Trainz projects. Sample screen shots:




ScottyW_20120426_0000.jpg

ScottyW_20120422_0004.jpg
 
Thank you for the info. I've got to think about it because my budget is tight right now.

Your screenshots are interesting.

Where did you get the catenary poles?

Mike K is building some from scratch, again. Obtaining those would save a lot of time. The Rowe tunnel which you show as a generic freight house in your pic, was a standard crème and maroon B&M affair. Mike has made it already. It's actually quite a complicated affair.

I suggest you take a look at Carl Byron's book "A Pinprick of Light". He's a member of the B&M Historical Society and his expertise and authority on the tunnels is amazing. Mike and I had the opportunity to meet him at the Big-E show yesterday.

The yard in North Adams is quite interesting with its overpass and then junction up at the river with the B&A. I'm still getting the track placement correct there and will soon be adding buildings. It's sad nearly all of it is gone today. What used to be track is now grass and trees with piles of rotted ties about. I'd say this is typical of Guilford/Pan Am because the tracks existed pretty much the same until they took over the operation in the 1980s.

John
 
This is totally off topic ScottyW, but John Citron and I are working a project for for a local historical society. which includes trackage from Hoosac Station (East Portal) to North Adams. We have lots of old pix and aerials, with more info forthcoming regarding the area. We are interested in your work. I'm sending you a pm with more info.
Mike K.
 
I should have noted that the trackwork at the East Portal is directly from a B&M track plan for the area. It is 100% accurate with the cat poles exactly where they should be. I'm still waiting for a decent plan of North Adams but it's not a matter of if, it is when it gets here. I'm not sure if anyone is aware, but the B&A roundhouse is actually still standing in North Adams. Us Bing Bird's Eye view and look for it built into a block of buildings not far from where the station used to be. It used to house the local newspaper but I don't know if they are still there or not.

For John, yes, I know Carl. Have known him for a lonnnggg time. The other real authorities on Hoosac are Alden Dryer and Jerry Kelly. I bet both were also at the show at the B&MRRHS table.

The cat poles were done by Paul Weiser. He also custom did the B&M electrics with my assistance to capture details.
 
This is very exciting. I have been interested in creating a prototype RR in TS12 (and eventually T2) somewhere in the Northeast. I just have to make up my mind that I want to invest all the time and effort, but when I do, I will surely go for the vol 1 rev 9.
A very small price to pay for all that info!

CP
 
I don't have the money right now unfortunately, but at the same time I'd have a hard time justifying purchasing anything unless it covered towards Buffalo more, particularly on the NYC mainline from Albany to Buffalo and the old Erie line from Buffalo to Binghamton (now CSX and NS, respectively). Additionally it would need to be information that I can't already get from www.multimodalways.com, which has data back to the '60s in some cases.

(that being said, if you ever come up with information about the NYC Mainline when it was still 4-tracked such as interlocking/control points I'd certainly be interested, can't find anything before it was double tracked...)

It is still pretty cool that you've found whatever information you have.
 
Sadly the B&A roundhouse is no more. It's been completely torn down many years ago. The yard is all grass and trees except for a few sidings. The only original buildings left are the old electrics repair shop, now a scrap dealer, and the crew office near the river bridge. The newspaper office building which is built along that curve, sits where the old Purina grain elevator used to be. The roundhouse was between the mainline and the connection with the B&A on the bridge end and situated just before the station. When looking down on the yard from above, the roundhouse would fit into the curved tracks and to the right of the station.

This is a fascinating area to work on and the more I dig at it, the more I learn about the region. Fred (Approach Medium), this is the interesting part of working on a prototype. You start digging at stuff, looking for buildings, etc., only to find that there's a ton of bits and pieces that lead to others. While I was laying the track in the yard, based on topo maps, and supplied photos, I didn't realize how steep that grade is going into the yard. This is due to having to climb over the B&A. I did have to do a little fiddling and faking due to Trainz, but the grade is quite long as it reaches the rive on the end. I now wonder if they used to kick cars down the slope! :) The one thing I wish is if I could have done this 20 years ago. The people we really need to talk to are long gone now due to age and they would be the ones with the first hand knowledge for all that information we require.

Scott, Thank you for the sources of info. Carl is a great guy and has been helpful. We tried to speak with Jeff on Saturday, but he was tied up. I'll inquire with Alden.

John
 
So John,

You are saying that the semi-circle building with five obvious stalls in the Bing Bird's Eye view in front of me right now is NOT the B&A roundhouse but an impostor? Bing link: http://binged.it/1fhGruT

Drat... I wonder why the newspaper chose that shape? I did look on the Historic Aerials site and see that they old roundhouse was very similar but would have been right behind the newspaper building. The paper building essentially is sitting on the turntable pit while the extension behind it is about where the roundhouse was. It is still quite possible that they bought the roundhouse and circumvented zoning regulations about new construction by building on to the old building. It is a common tactic. The same was done in Rotterdam Jct where the chemical company built on to the old B&M roundhouse. You can barely pick out a small piece of it mixed in their complex.
 
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"(that being said, if you ever come up with information about the NYC Mainline when it was still 4-tracked such as interlocking/control points I'd certainly be interested, can't find anything before it was double tracked...)"

What I have is the entire NYC from New York City with ALL branch lines on both sides of the Hudson River all the way up to Albany and west as far as Fonda. This is land maps from the 1920's and shows everything you ever wanted to know about the railroad. However, I haven't released the NYC yet because I'm not done compacting and packaging it for CD release. I could get all the way to Buffalo but I don't want to overwhelm my good contact with the State of NY in Albany.

As for the Erie railroad, I do have the ENTIRE Erie from end to end. However, that too is not yet compacted and packaged yet. It takes a lot of time to sit at the desk and do so as it is thousands of drawings to work on. My real job is with a real railroad and today, as I write this, I am sitting at the freight agent desk like I do every Monday.
 
So John,

You are saying that the semi-circle building with five obvious stalls in the Bing Bird's Eye view in front of me right now is NOT the B&A roundhouse but an impostor? Bing link: http://binged.it/1fhGruT

Drat... I wonder why the newspaper chose that shape? I did look on the Historic Aerials site and see that they old roundhouse was very similar but would have been right behind the newspaper building. The paper building essentially is sitting on the turntable pit while the extension behind it is about where the roundhouse was. It is still quite possible that they bought the roundhouse and circumvented zoning regulations about new construction by building on to the old building. It is a common tactic. The same was done in Rotterdam Jct where the chemical company built on to the old B&M roundhouse. You can barely pick out a small piece of it mixed in their complex.

It's all a big fake. :)

I thought so too when I first saw it. It's in about the same location but it bit closer to where the grain company is and partly where the big B&A warehouse/cold storage building was located. The American Legion drive made things a bit confusing because that is where the warehouse used to be, and the American Legion building sits where the station, small yard, and a roundhouse lead or escape track was located.

Check out this here...
http://www.historicaerials.com/

In the search box, put in North Adams, MA

And choose 1960 as that is still clear enough to show the tracks, and buildings.

I've seen reused buildings too. Up in Lawrence, MA, the old South Lawrence engine fascility became a trucking company. They filled in the pit and used the bays. I think the building is gone now, having been burned down by an arsonist and replaced by some generic metal building in the past decade.

John
 
What I have is the entire... <snip>

I know how day jobs go... I'm on a seasonal layoff right now which is when most of my Trainz work gets done (explains why nothing I've done has gone to release yet, 3 months of Trainz, 9 months of real work makes it tough to finish anything).

No worries, I'm patient and come February 10th I probably won't have a chance to deal much with Trainz until November.

I started a route of the present day CSX Rochester subdivision from Syracuse to Buffalo (through Rochester), and in the course of that I got sidetracked and got to thinking that I'd really like to model the interaction between more of the roads in the area (primarily WNY, between Buffalo, Rochester, and southward perhaps just beyond Wyoming County where I grew up). My primary source as I said is MMW.com, they have track charts and some timetables for the NYC Mainline going back to shortly after the PC merger, the Erie line I mentioned going back to Conrail, and the B&O line into Rochester (what is now R&S from Silver Springs northward) in the '60s. I'd really like to find more info on all three of these lines for next year, though I haven't decided if I'd model it to the period or as a "creative perspective" of what they'd be like today if things had gone differently mid-century, but either way it would be based off the early days of the lines...

Anyhoo, like I said the data looks like a good addition to any modeler's collection of data and if the right info was available I'd certainly be interested. Keep up the good work!
 
It's all a big fake. :)

I thought so too when I first saw it. It's in about the same location but it bit closer to where the grain company is and partly where the big B&A warehouse/cold storage building was located. The American Legion drive made things a bit confusing because that is where the warehouse used to be, and the American Legion building sits where the station, small yard, and a roundhouse lead or escape track was located.

Check out this here...
http://www.historicaerials.com/

In the search box, put in North Adams, MA

And choose 1960 as that is still clear enough to show the tracks, and buildings.

I've seen reused buildings too. Up in Lawrence, MA, the old South Lawrence engine fascility became a trucking company. They filled in the pit and used the bays. I think the building is gone now, having been burned down by an arsonist and replaced by some generic metal building in the past decade.

John

Yes, I did use the historic aerials to take a look. I also went in and reviewed some of the North Adams images on the photo CD's I also offer. There are several shots that show the B&A yard as viewed from the B&M mainline. These are in the B&M b&W collection. There are also a few shots in the Misc. b&w collection in the New York Central folder. What I never really noticed is that in the B&M photos the B&A roundhouse is really easy to see. at the end they had three stalls left but even in the early 1950's I can't see any sign of the turntable.
 
Yes, I did use the historic aerials to take a look. I also went in and reviewed some of the North Adams images on the photo CD's I also offer. There are several shots that show the B&A yard as viewed from the B&M mainline. These are in the B&M b&W collection. There are also a few shots in the Misc. b&w collection in the New York Central folder. What I never really noticed is that in the B&M photos the B&A roundhouse is really easy to see. at the end they had three stalls left but even in the early 1950's I can't see any sign of the turntable.

Which is correct. The turntable pit got filled in at some point. I have a slew of photos so far from the B&M HS as well and also from the museum archives. The historic aerials website is awesome. I only wish the images were a bit bigger and without the watermark across the middle. That thing manages to sit just where I manage to need a clear view of something. At this point, I'm past track laying and now placing buildings... The fun begins. :)

John
 
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