Runaway train

Hi cascade and Everybody
Yes it is a fail safe ... but any number of things can accidentally or intentionally disable the fail safe braking operation (which I can't go into how to do so).
With proper settings the air brakes operate (flawlessly, 99.9% of the time), in this case something went horribly wrong, and the generator/compressor was intentionally shut off, by this, and other fiddling with controls, and valves, disabled the emergency braking, allowing all air to escape from both the trainline and all resivoirs, and the emergency brake release reservoirs. Like I said ... there are two presurized systems on a train, one applies the brakes when it loses pressure, by triggering the other pressurized system which pushes out on the brake pistons, if that 2nd pressurized system is also depleted, the emergency brakes pistons release, and you have an uncharged air brake system, a non-presurized runaway train of Radio Flyer wagons rolling downhill.

Cascade, we now know that it was a failing piston cylinder in the engine of the power car that had caused both fires on this consist that day. Therefore the firefighters would have had no option but to shut down the engine as to do anything else would have seen the fire reignite yet again plus they would have been under standing orders to do so. However, shutting down the engine should only have lost the air pressure in the train line due to the innumerable leaks in the system. This should have left the air reservoirs on the freight cars still fully charged by the system of non-return valves on the air tanks themselves which stops their fully charged pressure going back into the airlines.

As I have stated earlier in this thread I only have experience of air brakes as used in the road haulage industry. From that experience I have always found there is no way from the cab of a vehicle that you can discharge the air tanks on the trailer and it is these air tanks which are the second system and apply the brakes. The air tanks for that system can only be discharged manually by releasing the drain valves on the tanks themselves, and on the more modern systems you need a spanner/wrench to do that. Air brakes are designed that if a compressor fails and the pressure drops in the airlines or train line as in this case, the brakes are then applied and will remain applied until the airline pressure is regained. I suspect that the braking system on this train was so poorly maintained that the non-return valves did not operate when the engine was shut down and allowed the second system which applies the brakes to also fail. If that is the case, those responsible should face corporate manslaughter charges for gross negligence and nothing short of that.

Cascade, if there is a way of discharging the freight cars air reservoirs from the power car could you please describe how that could be done as I would very much like to know.
I believe also that there were three or five power cars in this consists. If the others were left running why did the pressure in the train line drop as their compressors should surely have created enough pressure to maintain the system, or was the entire brake system so poor and leaking so badly that it took all the power cars to be running just to maintain the pressure even when the train was stopped.

Bill
 
Last edited:
OK ... Well ... if shutting down the loco/generator/compressor was in fact done ... what do you surmise caused the runaway train to lose brakes, and careen downhill, burning up the entire end of town, killing dozens of townspeople ... as this is impossible (in your eyes) for a train to lose brakes, because of the completely fail-safe Westinghouse Air Brake System ... I suppose the brakes did not fail at all ... and the train did not obliterate the town, and the people are still alive today ... and the entire news story is just a hoax ? ? ?

As this catastrophic brake failure/derailment/explosion never even happened, at all ... because the Westinghouse Air Brake System is completely fail-safe ? ? ?

Is this not correct in your eyes ? ? ?

Ethicly, I can not divulge ways to derail a train ... ask Gomez Addams: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMxJtMoTnx8

If you really want to know how to do it exactly ... ask the firefighters, and the railroad, if you, yourself, can personally re-do the chain reaction process all over again ... of shutting down the loco/generator/compressor ... and see for yourself that: "It Does Happen" !
 
Last edited:

Cascade, if there is a way of discharging the freight cars air reservoirs from the power car could you please describe how that could be done as I would very much like to know.
I believe also that there were three or five power cars in this consists. If the others were left running why did the pressure in the train line drop as their compressors should surely have created enough pressure to maintain the system, or was the entire brake system so poor and leaking so badly that it took all the power cars to be running just to maintain the pressure even when the train was stopped.

Bill


I agree that there's no amount of fiddling from the cab that can cause the brake cylinders to loose pressure. If it was a loss of brake cylinder pressure that caused this then either ALL or most of the triple valves (1 per car) failed.

As to why shutting down one power car could deplete the brake pipe, if I'm not mistaken, trailing locomotives are put in a special mode where they behave like rail cars.
 
Everybody has this magical idea that a broken trainline, causes the "spring loaded" brakes to apply ... this is a misconception, as there are no heavy duty braking application springs.

A broken trainline, vents the trainline pressure to zero ... which causes the brake valve to trigger the second pressure charged resivoir, to release it's separate charged pressure, sending it's air pressure to the all the brake cylinders ... and that pressure in the second pressurized system, holds the brake pistons out, and engaged ... If this second system was also released, somehow ... and the firefighters, and the lone, non-qualified trackworker, provided this skilled function, ever so adept fully, (on how exactly to properly pee out a small electrical fire, that probably would have burnt out itself, or smoldered away into insignificance), while awaiting the proper RR engine personnel arrive on the scene (which never happened) to tie down the train ... it would have been less expensive to lose a lone loco to a small fire ... than an entire town. More than likely a small smoldering fire in a engine compartment would have never reached the loco fuel tanks (which is largely a non-explosive, non-inflamable fuel) rarely do they explode, nor catch fire, unless there is a violent collision that ruptures the fuel tanks.

The lone trackworker radioed dispatch that he was done his work, and was departing the scene ... as were the firefighters ... imagine an extinguished train fire, set of locos, left alone, in the dead of night, all slightly squeeking, and eventually slowly gathering speed, and rolling away down a -1.87% gradient, towards a sleeping little town ... while every one of the first responders/lone trackworker were back at their station, drinking cawfee and eating glazed doughnutz', and patting themselves on the back for their highly trained, quick skilled actions, on how to properly use the, handy dandy, exquisite use of a lone CO2 fire extinguisher, and how to properly shut down a locomotive, and ever so adept fully, disable it's brakes.

I tink' day' doodid' someting' wong' !

You can bet your sweet bippy ... that re-training of firefighter/RR personel in Canada has been revamped drastically, since their actions (unintentionally) "caused" this catastrophic chain of events to unfold, and tragedy !

There is also the possibility that the locomotive engineer that parked the train, did so improperly, leaving valves and handles improperly set, or leaving the handles engaged, not "cut out" ... and too, that, along with inadequate numbers of handbrakes, all these mistakes caused a rapid unfolding of an unstoppable chain of events, to unfold.
 
Last edited:
If this second system was also released, somehow ...

Exactly. There were independent "second systems" (as you call them) on EACH CAR. Unless the firemen and or RR worker went the length of the train and mucked with the brakes on each car, the personnel couldn't have done it.

If we presume that the train was allowed to freewheel down the grade due to a loss of braking force (your second system, IE the Aux Reservoir and Brake cylinders on each car) then it had to be due to a fault in each and ever system and NO COMPRESSOR, Running or not, no matter how freaking big, could ever have any effect on that "Second System" UNLESS THE BRAKES WERE RELASED.

Now here's a question. Was the Automatic Brake set? Or was it just the Independent? If it was ONLY the Independent then the compressor being shut off WOULD cause the eventual loss of braking force on the locomotive.

(I don't have the numbers to do TE calculations and figure out if just the loco brakes could even hold the load)

I do know however, from a currently employed engineer, the ANOTHER railroad has a rule that you use the Dynamics, the Independent, and THEN the Automatic Brake ONLY if you HAVE to.

If he were climbing a grade then he would have likely NOT used the automatic brake and just stopped on the independent - NOW we have a scenario where loosing the compressor could cause this mess.

EDIT: You know, I think I may have just hit on something there...
 
Back
Top