US Camelback Locos, Division of labor between engineer and fireman

Hello, I am building a model of the Erie L1 Class 0-8-8-0 Articulated Camelbacks.

For the working cab I need to understand who does what in a Camelback where the crew is divided in two stations, forward and rear cab.
What I was thinking on specifically is who works the injector.

On the L1 as on most Camelbacks it seems that a lifting injector is located on the right site of the boiler forward for the front cab.
Se: http://www.trainweb.org/milepost51/eriel1.html

But is not the fireman responsible for maintaining the steam pressure and does not his duty’s also including
operation the injectors in order to maintain a proper water level in the boiler?

I thought that the operation of a US lifting injector normally would be mechanical, that is you twist a wheel in the cab and
it operates the injector by means of a rod. But the distance from the rear cab to the injector seems to long for that arrangement to work.

Or is it really so that thee engineer does that from the front cab?

/ Yours Björn

One can see the injector and the piping right in front of the driver on the right hand side , ( I think they called that the Warren injector ) just outside the cab, so I guess the driver operated the injector , but I am talking under correction as I don't know much about these models at all.
cheers.

From the stories that I have read about normal steam Locos the water injection was taken care of by both the fireman and the engineer as well as maintaining steam pressure. For the most part it was the fireman's responsibility for both operations but the engineer could perform these duties when the fireman was busy with other important tasks. This is probably one of the reasons why you had to fire before becoming an engineer. Communication between the fireman and engineer was important for efficient running as well.

In the case of camelbacks I think that they had some sort of whistle communication signal line in order to communicate these changes. The fireman had to service two firebox doors with a tough fuel source so I wouldn't doubt that the engineer picked up some of the water and pressure duties. I am not 100% sure about this though but I know a few people who might know.

Very common practice in the US for the engineer to carry the water in the old days. Over time, and definitely now, not so much, as the practice diminished. On more conventional locomotives, reason for this practice was cited as low literacy levels of the firemen. Injector arrangement for these locomotives makes it so fireman cannot carry water. He has one job, and one only while underway and that is to keep steam up. Many railroads had controls for the engineer to operate feedwater heater from his seat, with valve handles extending clear across the cab, and some had single-body, dual-feed injectors from mounted so that operation was convenient for the engineer to operate.

Hi all

Thank you for the answers. So it was the engineer that operated the injector then.

Another question about camelback cabs. What did they use the other side of the front cab for,
that is the side that the engineer did not occupy? Storage perhaps.

/ björn

Quite possible, as thick as valve oil is its good to keep it by heat. And without an oil tray on the backhead, it's about the only place for it.

From the looks of it, the engineers injector is a lifting injector, possibly a monitor type injector. Judging from the plumbing shown on the firemans side, there should be a non-lifting injector below the cab. This is actually not all that uncommon, as with a non-lifting injector, it eliminates the need to prime the injector, allow for faster application of the injector....or so I have been told, because I have only ever used lifting injectors, Monitors, Sellers, and Edna's

It should be observed that the boiler check/stop cock in front of the engineer is a dual feed, with one leg coming from visible injector, and the other coming from within the cab. Most likely an injector inside the cab, and nothing on the fireman's side. This is standard configuration for all examples of camelback locomotives that I am familiar with.

Those are Hancock Inspirators shown in all the pictures I've seen of it, so operation is relatively simple compared to some other lifting injectors. I can't see the website with additional pictures at the moment as it will not load, but, as a general rule, if you can't see a non-lifter, it's not there. They should be mounted below the water line to function properly. Non-lifters are definitely less fiddly, but you can't adjust the flow rate as finely as you can on a lifting. 630 has one of both, I use the lifter on longer grades so I'm not always turning one off and on the whole time.

Hi

Thanks , I do believe that there is another injector in the cab as you can see part of it sticking out of the front wall of the cab.

Hancock Inspirators, hm newer heard of them before but a quick web search strikes gold as I did find pictures that are god enough for textures.

/ Björn

I remember reading somewhere that camel back locomotives had a second "emergency" set of controls for the fireman. These controls were basically a simple set of brakes and sometimes a rudimentary throttle valve that would allow him to cut power to the locomotive.

I can't find the original story that I remember this from, but the basics of it were that a fireman noticed something wrong when the engineer didn't respond to signals or something, and he shut off his own controls to bring the train to a stop. The engineer had succumbed to a heart attack. By stopping the train, the fireman prevented a massive derailment.

Thats actually fairly easy to do, you don't need a full brake stand, all you need is a simple dump valve to release all the air from the trainline. The same thing is required by the FRA on all steam locomotives for Fireman to be able to independently stop the train in an Emergency, also required in Road diesel locomotives as well. As for a throttle, not really sure how that would work.

I called it a throttle, but that's wrong. I understood it to mean that it was a kind of cut off valve. Something that the fireman could use to redirect the steam from the pistons to an external exhaust (kinda like a whistle or blow off.) In the original story where I read it, it described it as shutting off the steam, so I'm guessing that it only had either an on or off setting. Kinda like a fuel cut off on a diesel locomotive.