avguisaxtrainz
Railfan of the SOO Line
Is multiplayer possible with the use of 3rd party content not on the DLS or Builtin? If so, how must it be set up?
Multiplayer with non-builtin content
- Thread starter avguisaxtrainz
- Start date
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
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Straight answer - no. Content has to be the same for all users, and any content not on the Download Station or built-in will prevent the multiplayer session working.
Shane
colourlight
New member
I wish to add two points to Shaneturner's Post. The first is that Payware bought from the N3V Games Store is classified as built in and so can be used for a multiplayer Session. This was done with the Settle & Carlisle Route. The 2nd, and most important point, is that the Installed copy of TS12/TS10 you wish to use to use for multiplay should not contain freeware or payware from any source, including N3V Games, except what Shaneturner mentioned. This is especially important if you wish to create your own multiplayer session.
Wish some one would sticky my one topic
Read this, it will help:
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?89767-Multiplayer-Tips-Tricks-Fixes-and-Other-Things
Read this, it will help:
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?89767-Multiplayer-Tips-Tricks-Fixes-and-Other-Things
This isn't entirely accurate. Our major addon packs (S&C, etc.) do fall into this category but I believe that we also sell smaller content packs which do not.
Prior to TS12 SP1: if you use an N3V-provided installer, the content is suitable for multiplayer; if you use a third-party installer or simply download CDP files, the content is not suitable.
After SP1: if the content is installed via the in-game systems, then that content is suitable for multiplayer. If you install via a third-party installer or via CDP files, the content is not suitable.
I'm not sure where this comes from, but I don't agree at all. You're encouraged to use your regular Trainz build to run multiplayer, and there's certainly no harm in having other content installed. I think the key points here are:
* If you have modified some of the built-in content (never a good idea), you will be required to revert those changes prior to using it in multiplayer.
* If you are creating a new multiplayer route or session (as opposed to simply playing an existing session) then you may wish to use a 'clean' build so that you don't accidentally include unsuitable content. You are certainly able to install the addon pack content mentioned above, or DLS content, into this build without any concerns, but if you start using other non-DLS third-party content in your route/session then it may end up unsuitable for multiplayer.
hth,
chris
colourlight
New member
The reason I said that you should only have built in or DLS content in your Multiplayer installation is for the very reason you mentioned Windwalkr. It is easier than you think to inadvertently allow something nasty to creep into a Multiplayer session. I should know. I screwed up one of my sessions when I downloaded Settle and Carlisle and had to do a reinstall to fix it.
This is quite a shame really. I have been working for many years on a really nice mainline subdivision using content from TS2006 thru TS12 plus some additional user created content downloaded from the DLS over the years. It would be a great route to play multiplayer on, but it seems I would have to delete everything minus maybe the track, and start from scratch?
If you can only use content from TS2 / TS2010, then that really does limit what you can do. I myself like to model Canadian railroads, and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of modern Canadian content included in those two products.
It would be nice to allow people who share the same content to join a multiplayer game no matter what content is included in the game. Just tell anyone else who doesn't have the correct content that they are lacking required content.
I also think a perpetually online dedicated server option would be an amazing idea.
If you can only use content from TS2 / TS2010, then that really does limit what you can do. I myself like to model Canadian railroads, and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of modern Canadian content included in those two products.
It would be nice to allow people who share the same content to join a multiplayer game no matter what content is included in the game. Just tell anyone else who doesn't have the correct content that they are lacking required content.
I also think a perpetually online dedicated server option would be an amazing idea.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
N3V/Auran have only imposed one restriction regarding Multiplayer content, and that is that all content used has to be either built-in or on the Download Station. There is a very good reason for this - non-Download Station/non-built-in content shows up as Locally Modified, which the game tries to (and cannot) revert (as an asset has to be in it's original (as-downloaded) format in order to be used).
Shane
Shane
If Chris' post above is anything to go by, that's abit more than just "one restriction". I went through the whole post and am not even sure if I understood all of it. Any route that has been individually developed over a lengthy period of time and containing older or non-DLS content would have to be almost completely rebuilt from the ground up just to fit the multiplayer specifications. Nobody's going to do that.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
That's the price one has to pay when they use non-builtin/non-DLS content...
Shane
Shane
I beg to differ, that's EXACTLY what I did with MRL. I took a route from TPR, a 3ed party site with 3rd party content and replaced every thing to ether built in or on the DLS, rebuilt the route from the broken bits of it and prior to SP1 had it working just fine in MP.
Now you can use any content from any version of Trainz as long as it shows as built in or on the DLS.
One trick I have found is to use the rating system that Trainz has. I rate any thing non-DLS that I download as 5 stars. Then when building, I tell the filter to hide any thing with a 5 star rating. This way train cars, locomotives, or other custom content doesn't slip through the cracks. Another useful tool is the replace asset tool. And another trick is the setting "Show Asset Kuids In Surveyor." Any thing listed as locally modified shows a red kuid and should be kept out of the route/session if you plan on doing a MP route/session.
Now you bring up a good point, you've spent days, weeks, months building a route, and would like to have an MP session for it. But there is 3rd party content in it. There a 2 things you can do.
A) Clone the route, so now you have two copies of it. Then in one copy remove only the 3rd party content. Id recommend not removing it, but using the replace asset tool to replace the 3rd party stuff with some thing off the DLS that fits.
B) Do the same thing as above, but with out cloning the route. This will mean you have one MP ready copy only though.
And there are a few really good reasons to not allowing 3rd party content into MP session/routes. Imagine if I made a route for MP, but I used content from 8 different web sites and the DLS. Now YOU have to go tot he DLS and get every ting from there, then YOU have to go to the 8 other web sites and download their content. And I might not list all the web sites where every thing comes from. I might have used an asset from JR's freeware stuff that I downloaded 5 years ago and forgot where it came from. Or a web site might no longer host a building that I used in the route. So now YOUR stuck trying to find all these assets just to make a route work. What then ends up happening is that you get mad at me because you cant find a building that I used.
But since this is not the case, and all content must be on the DLS for it to be used in a MP session, it saves you and I from that headache. Now When I build a MP route/session, I know that any one who downloads it wont have any trouble finding the content they need for it. Its all in one, easy to acesse and convient location. So covenant, that Trainz has a tool to do all the work of finding every thing for you.
I know it kinda sucks, not being able to use 3rd party content. But Id much rather not have to hunt down every thing. Like back in the days of MSTS where you had to hunt down files both online and in your own game to get a route to work.
Ah, the infamous asset-hunting games. I don't often download routes - in fact I rarely do except for the rare occasion. Clovis, for example. And even that there were a dozen 3rd party sites I had to visit.
Which is why I strive to make it as convenient as possible for people to run my route when it is released. The first beta ran and it was apparent using the DLS as opposed to CDPs would be most efficient. In fact after the beta I briefly considered making the general release MP compatible. However there are still significant showstopping factors. Off the top of my head; Pofig's speedtrees for the route and JR rolling stock for the base sessions. And I'm not trading these for multiplayer.
So *suggestion* a reasonable compromise would be for Auran to allow both kinds "pure-DLS" and "regular" routes to be MP-compatible. However it is on the onus of the route builder to ensure that all non-DLS assets are easily obtainable by the end-user. Say if I can build a route that uses mainly DLS assets and a couple of Pofig trees and acquire permission to package them together with the route, there is no problem. On the other hand if a route builder fails to ensure that non-DLS content cannot be easily obtained (ether through his effort of obtaining permissions for distribution or maintaining a valid list of external download locations), then the only loser would be him, because nobody gets to run the route, MP or not.
It is the same reason why I'm going to great lengths to ensure distribution is as smooth as possible for the player, even though the current situation means MP will not be possible.
Cheerio,
Nicholas
Which is why I strive to make it as convenient as possible for people to run my route when it is released. The first beta ran and it was apparent using the DLS as opposed to CDPs would be most efficient. In fact after the beta I briefly considered making the general release MP compatible. However there are still significant showstopping factors. Off the top of my head; Pofig's speedtrees for the route and JR rolling stock for the base sessions. And I'm not trading these for multiplayer.
So *suggestion* a reasonable compromise would be for Auran to allow both kinds "pure-DLS" and "regular" routes to be MP-compatible. However it is on the onus of the route builder to ensure that all non-DLS assets are easily obtainable by the end-user. Say if I can build a route that uses mainly DLS assets and a couple of Pofig trees and acquire permission to package them together with the route, there is no problem. On the other hand if a route builder fails to ensure that non-DLS content cannot be easily obtained (ether through his effort of obtaining permissions for distribution or maintaining a valid list of external download locations), then the only loser would be him, because nobody gets to run the route, MP or not.
It is the same reason why I'm going to great lengths to ensure distribution is as smooth as possible for the player, even though the current situation means MP will not be possible.
Cheerio,
Nicholas
ZecMurphy
Community Assistant
The main reason for requiring DLS/built-in for multiplayer is not so much the great dependency hunt. It's that there is no way to ensure that the content is identical across all player's installations.
If an asset is downloaded from the DLS, then it will be the same across all computers.
If that asset is then modified, Trainz sees it as such. In this situation, Trainz will automatically download the original unmodified asset from the DLS to ensure it is the original DLS version.
This ensures that everything is identical...
Now, with non DLS content, there is not 'base' download (I could change the download every week without anyone knowing...). Hence these assets install as locally modified content from the start. 99% of creators won't change assets in a way that would break this, but many users do.
For example, if player X decides the physics on a loco aren't right, they change the physics to a more powerful enginespec. All other players have the original enginespec on the loco. In this case, player X's train will travel further on their computer than on the other computers. This could lead to turnouts/junctions being changed under the train, or the same train suddenly going down two different tracks. This could then leave to random derailments, collisions.
There are other areas that such changes could cause problems. Modified routes (e.g. one player has added an extra siding to their copy of the route), modified industries (the creator may have released a new version on their website, that changes the track spacing, breaking the track for one player, and causing random derailments), and so on.
We do not plan to implement any options to allow non DLS content for the foreseeable future, due to the high possibility of these issues, since there is no way to ensure all of the content is identical...
Regards