Content descriptions full of ??????????????????????????????

T

TRS17985

Member
Dear TRAINZ Fans, (happy Easter)

As a Trainz user for several years I would like to propose the following. I would like to promote the usage of English as the common TRAINZ language. With all due respect to all foreign language users (as myself by the way) I find myself stuck in content descriptions full of question marks, or driver commands in unreadable explanations. I can imagine that everyone has a basic knowledge of the English language, so lets unify our communication and learn by understanding each other.

Greetz
 
Hi TRS17985,

After a bit of research I think you will find the user names with these sort of symbols are in cerillic or some other type of text. It is quite possible that after some considerable time creating an item the author decided to share it but had no way or no knowledge of a way to convert it to English. You have to remember that this sim. is just about all over the world and there are lots of people in the world who cannot speak or write in English. Just as many Englishmen cannot speak or write any other language.

Cheers,
Bill69
 
Hi and happy Easter to you too.

I see your point and I am also a big promoter of English being the standard language (also a foreign language for me), but the main problem is that the follow is I fear only an imagination:
TRS17985 said:
I can imagine that everyone has a basic knowledge of the English language
Click to expand...
Loads of (for example) Russian and French natives (and I assume most other countries) only speak their own language, especially the older people. My grandfather for example, although being a brilliant man (also not Russian or French btw), did not speak English at all; German was his 2nd language.

Loads of Trainz content creators are not aware that you can use specific string tables and tags in the config file so to set the asset in multiple languages. I would be really happy if for example our fellow Russian trainzers would use both the default and the specific Russian tags so that we in our version see an English name and description (if you don't understand the language, something out of google translate is good enough) and they in their Russian version of the game see what we experience as "???????????????????????".

Tag examples:

Code: 
description                            "<enter a description in English here>"
description-ru                         "<enter a description in Russian here>"
username                               "<Enter the name of the asset in English here>"
username-ru                            "<Enter the name of the asset in Russian here>"
string-table-ru
{
}
These language tags are available in 14 or so different languages.
 
I'd be happy if the game, given that it has expressed support for foreign languages, in including Russian, that it would just freaking display it. I can't read/speak any asian languages, but I have the fonts and such installed so I don't get loads of weird gibberish in my web browser or media player (I have some J-pop) So what's the deal with Russian?
 
I would think our Russian brethren have the same problem with English. If you would like a translation, a friendly request on the proper Forum would probably bring dividens.

John
 
oknotsen said:
(...) I would be really happy if for example our fellow Russian trainzers would use both the default and the specific Russian tags so that we in our version see an English name and description (if you don't understand the language, something out of google translate is good enough) and they in their Russian version of the game see what we experience as "???????????????????????".(...)
These language tags are available in 14 or so different languages.
Click to expand...


Hi oknotsen,

You are right, But I have an experience regarding this problem. We (HU) also have specific characters in our alphabet, but there is something wrong in CMP... Simply I cannot use hungarian characters (in description-hu / username-hu / etc. tags)...
I had written config files earlier both in Ansi and UTF8 format, but something happens when I export the model to cdp file and reinstall from cdp... So the problem is in CMP (I assume...)

Happy easter to you All,

Krisz :wave:
 
That would make sense.

However, N3V have stated previously that the username and description tags (note: no extra bit at the end) are for English information only. If a creator wishes to include their language-specific description/asset names, they should use the username-xx (xx = country code) or description-xx tags in addition to providing an English version for the username/description tags (using Google Translate if necessary)

Shane
 
shaneturner12 said:
That would make sense.

However, N3V have stated previously that the username and description tags (note: no extra bit at the end) are for English information only. If a creator wishes to include their language-specific description/asset names, they should use the username-xx (xx = country code) or description-xx tags in addition to providing an English version for the username/description tags (using Google Translate if necessary)

Shane
Click to expand...


Yes, this should be the normal behaviour... But is doesn't work...
 
Well I can't check right now, but what I was thinking of are the multiple *BUILT IN* items in TS12 that appear as "?????? ??? ???????",<KUID:123456:987654> rather then "Ершы Шы Пшииукшыр",<KUID:123456:987654>

(Note: The last one of the two appears as Cyrillic characters on my comp, but I installed Russian language support this morning after reading this thread. Now I can type Russian directly by switching lanuages. But I could already see Russian on Russian websites so I don't know if they will make any difference in Content Manager or in game or not.

This is my laptop, which only has TRS2004 on it, and even that runs badly with all settings at minimum, I am going to try this with my TS12 desktop too on Tuesday. I have doubts it will solve anything, but I have had to "enable Asian languages" to see not see gibberish with Asian language text so I feel inclined to give it a try.)

PS - to get the "Russian" I simply switched to Russian entry mode and typed "This is gibberish" in english on the keyboard. On the offhand chance I accidently said anything offensive in Russian, I appologize and assure you it was a total accident.
 
Last edited:
bekaember said:
Yes, this should be the normal behaviour... But is doesn't work...
Click to expand...

This is because like a lot of things here, they are hidden from the content creators. There is no documentation or CCG so people don't know about this.

It would be nice if they used the Windows full ASCII character set and not just the UNICODE subset for the English characters.

This is interesting by the way...

http://www.unicodemap.org/

John
 
At least try and put an English translation in the description/readme - even if it's arrived at by using a translation tool (such as Google). It's not just Russian/Cyrillic items - there are many German assets built in to various versions or on the DLS which could be useful on a route but don't show up in a Surveyor or CMP (and don't get me started on the Protrain assets built in from TRS2006 - TS2010) which use some unfathomable letter and numbering system.

Without seeming parochial, English is the primary language of things like air traffic control - even in Europe you will hear people from different countries using English as a common tongue. (e.g. One time on a train in the Italian speaking part of Switzerland the German speaking conductor was excessing a French traveller for the supplement - and they were conversing in English!
 
shaneturner12 said:
That would make sense.

However, N3V have stated previously that the username and description tags (note: no extra bit at the end) are for English information only. If a creator wishes to include their language-specific description/asset names, they should use the username-xx (xx = country code) or description-xx tags in addition to providing an English version for the username/description tags (using Google Translate if necessary)

Shane
Click to expand...


bekaember said:
Yes, this should be the normal behaviour... But is doesn't work...
Click to expand...

This comes up over and over - The issue is that irrespective of which language is being used the name must still be typed using the ASCII character set. The fact that you CAN'T type a true Russian, Hungarian, or many other language username when restricted to the ASCII set is completely over-looked. ASCII stands for American Standard Code and the whole thing is 100% English Language biased with exactly zero allowance for non-English variations. The Russian/Hungarian/Whatever user must first transliterate the username into English Language characters. Quick quiz - whats is the Cyrillic character that replaces the English language combination 'oo' (as in ''boot"). No takers? Then how the heck are Russian/Hungarian/Whatever users supposed to 'just know' the answer in reverse?

The standard N3V reply is 'use Google Translator', but that just doesn't work. Even for single words translate English > Russian then copy/paste the result to Russian > English and if you get remotely close to where you started it's a fluke. Doing the same with complete sentences (or concepts) is a pretty good party game....
 
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Hi All

Please see here for how to localize an asset: http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php5/HowTo/Localize_an_Asset

I haven't checked here (and there's no one in the office today...), but I'm pretty sure the localized tags will support local character sets (Trainz definitely does when you select the appropriate language, and so long as the required character sets are installed).

However, please keep in mind that ALL content configuration, scripting, and filenames MUST be done in English, using ASCII characters. This is the base standard for Trainz. We require a base standard for these areas to ensure compatibility with all systems (and the software itself...), and this is the one we've chosen. We will not be changing this for the foreseeable future.

Hence, if you wish to create content, then you will need to be able to enter ASCII characters. Hence, requiring the use of ASCII characters for the 'username', 'description', and 'string-table' tags (the non 'localized' ones) is no real great leap of requirement from this, considering all settings, filenames, etc are using these same characters.

I've seen the odd creator ask on the forums for help with the English name of their object. This community is extremely good at helping creators, and we really don't see this particular part of content creation as being any different. More than likely there will be someone that they know who will be able to assist with translations.

Regards
 
I agree with Zec.



If you use non-ASCII characters in the filenames of textures and meshes, it is extremely likely that the texture or mesh will not survive the journey from creator to user. So the whole asset is useless.
Somewhere in the upload validation the affected file is being rejected, but the rest of the asset is accepted and placed on the DLS. Why does the creator not get feedback concerning this?
Could not the upload validation advise the creator that he has used non-ASCII characters in a filename, and for that matter also for tag 'username'?
 
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Good Afternoon Ian
Trainz does currently check the filenames of the mesh and textures (as well as the script I believe?) for invalid characters, and has done so since TRS2006 was released. We have stated for a long time that this was the case... Assets with invalid characters in the filenames will be rejected by the DLS as well. Or at least they should be, since they cause the asset to show as faulty in Content Manager...

We may look into validating the username, description, and string-table sections of the config.txt in future as well.

Regards
 
So why are there assets built into TS12 that have "???? ?? ????" as a NAME, let alone as the description?
 
Why does the creator not get feedback concerning this?
Click to expand...
Sometimes content is created only for narrow audience, and author really does not care about others. And the uploading of content to international DLS is the only way to get his content to work in multiplayer, nothing more.

We may look into validating the username, description, and string-table sections of the config.txt in future as well.
Click to expand...
Firstly retrieve the text font in interface like it is in English variant. And make translations of errors in CMP: it is nearly impossible to make content with "eror : %%s warning : %%s eror : %%s"

built into TS12 that have "???? ?? ????"
Click to expand...
For example i've forgot to fix names in my engine physics settings that are used in built-in vehicles. I really don't interested in their "wide spread" as they can't be used in foreign (for me) locomotives, and are usless for the most of you.


Anyway, using transliterated russian names or descriptions really isn't better than "???? ?? ????". Because there are no dictionary exist that can make a selection of russian letters from the Roman one and then make a translation.
 
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I must respectfully disagree with you there TRAM__.

It is important that filenames, asset names, and descriptions are localised correctly in my opinion. The important thing is to work around the limitations of Content Manager.

I've come across quite a few instances (not just with your content, but with other Ukraine/Russian etc creators) where they have failed to localise content correctly, and as a result no-one outside Russia/Ukraine etc understands what the content is for (which basically means they are more likely to ignore, disable, or delete the content in Content Manager, and as a result harms the reputation of the creator concerned due to not doing what they should have done before uploading to the Download Station, which is used by users all over the world.

Shane
 
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