UK narrow boats or barges what do we have?

johnwhelan

Well-known member
PLL has some reasonable scenery narrow boats.

Vulcan has an operating lock [FONT=&quot]KUID2:60238:60041:2 which unfortunately is only 20 meters long. Ideally it would be 22 meters long to accommodate a 70 foot narrow boat which was the most common size.

We can use invisible track either at 0 or 1 meter down? Which is the most common?

Do we have anything else useful?

Thanks John
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Vulcan also has small canal locks 1, 2 and 3 which are longer. KUID2:60238:60041:2 was I think his first lock, he then built a larger one and also two others without walls so you could create your own canal sides, one of these is a double lock. The old system for boats was -7m below ground level and Barry created some narrow boats at -3m. As all the track was below the water line it made it difficult to place boats on it. Later a standard of 3m above water level was brought in for track laying and is what most of Vulcan's boats use.
 
3 meters above ground seems sensible. <kuid:39134:100314> Invisible Wire Red bnsf50 perhaps.

putting the locks side by side in surveyor only small canal lock 5 which is KUID2:60238:60041:2 looks correct for a narrow boat lock on a UK canal which means a 19.5 meter boat length or 64 foot barge rather than a 70 foot one.

Thanks John
 
those narrow boats were HARD to handle back in the 70s i looked at buying one while i was up at Oxford and wow, that a handful. I took one down a canal to London and on the river it was a wild ride. :) but fun.

glad to see someone modelling them ...this for a new route?

Chris
 
those narrow boats were HARD to handle back in the 70s i looked at buying one while i was up at Oxford and wow, that a handful. I took one down a canal to London and on the river it was a wild ride. :) but fun.

glad to see someone modelling them ...this for a new route?

Chris

I'm not sure there are enough assets at the moment and route building isn't one of my strong points.

Cheerio John
 
HI

well maybe someone who had made a route will let you add canals ? there were canals in quite a few areas of the UK, all over in fact, i dont know what UK routes have been made in Trainz but that might be fun and a way to go.

Chris
 
I put some embryonic canal and waterways elements ln my 'Dearnby' routes but found the potential limited by the small number of high quality assets on the DLS. There are some good narrowboats around but very few. It was a case of trying to assemble everything from scratch. There are certainly a gap here for any asset creators seeking a new challenge.
 
Just a small comment from across the pond. B & O Canal. :D I'd love to see this developed somewhere.

Back to Jolly Old.
 
Just a small comment from across the pond. B & O Canal. :D I'd love to see this developed somewhere.

Back to Jolly Old.

I thought you were on my side of the pond or has Donald put up a wall so you have cross the pond twice to get to the states now?

Cheerio John
 
If anyone feels like playing with a beta and it is a beta then its here:

http://www.jatws.org/johnw/70barge.zip

It needs track set to 3 meters in the air. The hull is incorrect for a barge and there are a number of other issues for the rivet counters. It is not meant to be a particular narrow boat but it carries bulk cargo. It also has a tarp.

I'm interested in suggestions for a boatman at the back and in any major discrepancies. Aty suggestions on how to limit its speed to say 3 or 4 mph would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Cheerio John
 
Hello John,

I modified the small canal lock 5 and uploaded version 2, to add additional invisible track to the lock at each end, this was necessary so you could place triggers to drive to. As you probably know you need to have some part of the track past the turntable (lock) so a loco can see it under AI, otherwise is pulls up short and won't enter the lock. Placing triggers on the far track extensions allows the boat to stop in the middle of the lock under AI.

Parryjc asked for that addition before Christmas, as the AI in Tane would not work with the lock. A couple of days ago he also asked me to make the lock longer, as you have suggested. I have just uploaded the small canal lock 6 which is 5 metres longer than model 5, Parryjc now reports that it works correctly in Tane.

This is the thread where we discussed changes necessary:

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?141148

New model 6 should be on the DLS soon.

Ian
 
Hello John,

I modified the small canal lock 5 and uploaded version 2, to add additional invisible track to the lock at each end, this was necessary so you could place triggers to drive to. As you probably know you need to have some part of the track past the turntable (lock) so a loco can see it under AI, otherwise is pulls up short and won't enter the lock. Placing triggers on the far track extensions allows the boat to stop in the middle of the lock under AI.

Parryjc asked for that addition before Christmas, as the AI in Tane would not work with the lock. A couple of days ago he also asked me to make the lock longer, as you have suggested. I have just uploaded the small canal lock 6 which is 5 metres longer than model 5, Parryjc now reports that it works correctly in Tane.

This is the thread where we discussed changes necessary:

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?141148

New model 6 should be on the DLS soon.

Ian

Many thanks Ian. It's been floating round at the back of my mind for some time. Parryjc would prefer a far more accurate model than I've thrown together but I think having something that works reasonably well is a first step. With your new locks I think someone can create an layout based on operating canal barges. Refining the barges I think will happen over time. I know one content creator is working on one but movement is slow.

The big problem for me is the hull. I have one created by Barry in Blender years ago but it wasn't a canal barge. However I stretched and chops bit off so it looks not too unreasonable. I may try to create one from scratch, I have some plans but step one was to put something together from the bit box.

Cheerio John
 
Many thanks Ian. It's been floating round at the back of my mind for some time. Parryjc would prefer a far more accurate model than I've thrown together but I think having something that works reasonably well is a first step. With your new locks I think someone can create an layout based on operating canal barges. Refining the barges I think will happen over time. I know one content creator is working on one but movement is slow.

The big problem for me is the hull. I have one created by Barry in Blender years ago but it wasn't a canal barge. However I stretched and chops bit off so it looks not too unreasonable. I may try to create one from scratch, I have some plans but step one was to put something together from the bit box.

Cheerio John

Hi. I think I used Blender at the time to make the barges, etc. Not sure how that exports now into Trainz and the file type. I think I exported to obj. Given up making routes in the Blender Game Engine as too many changes, but might try making just canals and barges,sail ships, etc...free style, if I can find some route editor to export them to. I think I just extruded down af few times from the deck layout and mirrored halfs, pulled in the bow end, added rubbing boards, hatches etc. I deleted all my previous content and Blender Game Engine as made several barges for it and might have worked for Trainz and a lot of canal sections, locks, Liverpool docks etc 1815 and 1833.. Still got plenty of photos of Leeds to Liverpool as only live half mile away. Trainz is too complex for me now. Maybe my content still on download station 2004? Maybe static Liverpool docks to Ellesmere Port barge locks route still there same similar as in BGE. I think I made 7 miles of Liverpool docks in Trainz with the trams but don't have Trainz.. so forget now. c2004.

Barry.
 
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Hi Barry, nice to see you again.

John, the narrow canal locks were done at the request of Boat, he suggested that my other locks were a bit wide for the typical canals. I made a special narrow boat for him to use, he provided a nice put-put engine sound. The model is Narrow Boat 1, kuid2:60238:9606:2

Ian
 
Hi Barry, nice to see you again.

John, the narrow canal locks were done at the request of Boat, he suggested that my other locks were a bit wide for the typical canals. I made a special narrow boat for him to use, he provided a nice put-put engine sound. The model is Narrow Boat 1, kuid2:60238:9606:2

Ian

Hello Ian I seem to have travelled back in time. Barry
 
Hi Barry, nice to see you again.

John, the narrow canal locks were done at the request of Boat, he suggested that my other locks were a bit wide for the typical canals. I made a special narrow boat for him to use, he provided a nice put-put engine sound. The model is Narrow Boat 1, kuid2:60238:9606:2

Ian

I've copied it across. Very nice sound. Narrow Boat 1 is good but its more a modern house boat style narrow boat than a traditional cargo carrying narrow boat which is more what I was after.

Note to Barry this stuff needs TANE really which in turn implies a GTX1050TI or better GPU with directx 11. I have TANE running on a laptop with series 4000 Intel integrated graphics and it might be possible to run a canal layout on it. I'll have to try it. I think I have a spare TANE license lying around if you have the hardware. If you have any Blender source lying around I can probably bring them into TANE.

With Vulcan's two locks and a cargo barge I think the basics are now there for something set say 1930. One problem is the water in TANE is too clear. I can't think of a single UK canal that you could see through more than two inches of water.

Cheerio John
 
I've copied it across. Very nice sound. Narrow Boat 1 is good but its more a modern house boat style narrow boat than a traditional cargo carrying narrow boat which is more what I was after.

Note to Barry this stuff needs TANE really which in turn implies a GTX1050TI or better GPU with directx 11. I have TANE running on a laptop with series 4000 Intel integrated graphics and it might be possible to run a canal layout on it. I'll have to try it. I think I have a spare TANE license lying around if you have the hardware. If you have any Blender source lying around I can probably bring them into TANE.

With Vulcan's two locks and a cargo barge I think the basics are now there for something set say 1930. One problem is the water in TANE is too clear. I can't think of a single UK canal that you could see through more than two inches of water.

Cheerio John

Hello John I deleted all my Blender Game Engine routes that had the schooner, paddle steamer, sailing flats, barges, etc a few months back.. Also closed my site with all the downloads so not quite sure what to do. Getting a bit old as few years off 4 score so can't see me using Tane.

The barges I made I think were about 14 feet wide. I used them as sailing flats (barge with sail) Narrow boats are about 7 feet. I might start again. If you use Blender just extrude down from the deck, . Ian showed me the method yeras ago. If you want photos of towpath and Leeds to Liverpool might be able to email includling hump back bridge, etc.
I am talking myself into making them again. Metal bridges seem to have replaced the wood swing bridge.Barry
 
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I thought you were on my side of the pond or has Donald put up a wall so you have cross the pond twice to get to the states now?

Cheerio John

LOL, with all the Americans fleeing to Canada I'm just glad M. Trudeau is far too much of a gentleman to build walls.

I am a complete putz, it is not the B&O Canal it is the C&O Canal. There are a couple of fine photographs floating around of coal being transferred from C&P, CCC, and WM RR jimmies to coal barges on the C&O Canal. (The switch engines in the Cumberland yard were mules.)
 
Hi Guys,

Never thought that my simple request to John Whelan to produce a "proper Narrow boat" would have gained so much interest especially after being told time and time again this is a Trainz game not canals. I trust the moderator who repeatedly replied to me in that vein will take note.

I'm currently working up a route based around 1930's from Tyseley junction to Birmingham Snow hill possibly Woverhampton.
Any body who knows this route will have seen many parts of the canal system and possibly knows that part of the BCN (Birmingham Canal Network) passes right under the station.

As many of the railway surveyors followed the surveys already laid out for the canals, canals to my mind, do play a part in the general scenery, and if they can work so much the better.
The comment on water is an easy fix. Canal water can vary from putrid green to almost black, Brownish grey mostly.
Set the colour in the water table, place water at whatever height, bring the ground up to the water table level -0.02
Example: CANAL WATER LEVEL -5.60
CANAL BED -5.62 Use black or dark brown ground cover
BOAT TRACK LEVEL -2.60
TOWPATH HEIGHT -4.65 variable to whatever bank side you use. A third of a meter or one foot higher than water table level would be about right.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]
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Vulcan stretched his lock for me to pass a 72' boat and [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]John Whelan now has some great boats, loadable with various cargo, whilst I'm trying to painting them up in traditional canal colours. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Snow Hill, has new resplendent signals from the hands of Chris Whiting,
but still very much short on station buildings should anybody wish to give them a go.
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Should put a folder up in the cloud for interested parties to view, but never seem to get around to it.[/FONT]
Grateful thanks to all these guys who have and still are working with me to produce Snow Hill 1935.
Cheers guys Thanks.
John P.
 
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Hi Guys,

Never thought a simple request to John whelan would have produced so much interest especially after being told time and again

There has been some background interest for some time. Barry for example was one of the leading lights and that was some years ago. Glasgow QueenSt
is one of Chris's layouts that has some quite interesting bits of canal work.

Cheerio John
 
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