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JIb228

CSX Saginaw Sub #1

Rating: 3 votes, 3.67 average.
So when I first got TRS06 so many years ago I was thrilled to see the CSX Saginaw, and the CN Holly subs built by Chrisracer on the DLS. And I admit I was a little disappointed when I noticed a lot of details where flat out wrong. But I chucked that up to the fact that it must have been hard to find the right building for areas. Then when I saw that the CSX Saginaw Sub would be built in to TRS10, well thats what sold me on TRS10. I did my research and was further disappointed by Chrisracer's work as I found more and more wrong with the route. And eventually I gave up on it in Trainz.
Flash forward a few more years and I had the opportunity to meet Chrisracer. It was at that time that I learned that he really has no idea what hes doing when it come to trains, in general. I was very up set when he bragged about getting a fat check for his route's. Even if, for a lack of a better term, they are carp.


But I digress, this is not mean to be about Chrisracer. I only say that to give a little background and to say why I wont work with, update, or any thing that has any thing to do with Chrisracer.

With that said, yes, I am building the CSX Saginaw sub, and I am doing it right. I have just finished my DEM of the route after a few bugs. Next I'll lay out all the track work. I am starting in Romulus and going as far as Mt Morris. But I do intend to add more and more to the route over time. First I want to knock out that part, then I'll see where I want to go from there.

But enough talk, here is the first, and only screen shot of the Sag so far.



And guess's as to where this is at?

Updated August 9th, 2012 at 08:39 AM by JIb228

Categories
Trainz Simulator 12 , CSX Saginaw Sub Updates

Comments

  1. GTW1226's Avatar
    I am fix up the NS Detroit one. Or known as the Wabash Line. And now Conrail Linocne sesurday. Then i am making the CN Dearborn Sub!
  2. JIb228's Avatar
    I know you and BDP are working on routes that cross this one. My plan is to build them too, one day. And add them to mine. BUT I want to use only content found on the DLS as I want to make MP sessions for it.

    But if you ask me, dont even try to update any of Chrisracer's routes. Just start from scratch with a fresh DEM. Id offer to make some for you and BDP, but I hardly get time to work on my own stuff as is.
  3. chrisracer8903's Avatar
    Do you know I check these threads? Just so you know, I work for the railroad holding company that operated the Michigan Air-Line Railway so I guess working for the railroad means I don't know much about trains? Yeah.....Anyways, I remember when I met you and you gave me your "feedback" and yeah it's true that the routes are old, they arn't 100% accurate, but hey, non of those routes exhisted in the Trainz world of any form and I did have a deadline to submit my content to Auran. I think of my creations as a poineer, and now others have seen them and can make them better either from exhisting resources or from scratch as your case, Zack. I'm "retired" from Trainz content creation, but I still read your updates and what not. It's great to see more Michigan content but don't run your mouth telling a railroad employee that he doesn't know much about trains, just saying.
    Updated September 1st, 2012 at 09:52 PM by chrisracer8903
  4. JIb228's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisracer8903
    Do you know I check these threads? Just so you know, I work for the railroad holding company that operated the Michigan Air-Line Railway so I guess working for the railroad means I don't know much about trains? Yeah.....Anyways, I remember when I met you and you gave me your "feedback" and yeah it's true that the routes are old, they arn't 100% accurate, but hey, non of those routes exhisted in the Trainz world of any form and I did have a deadline to submit my content to Auran. I think of my creations as a poineer, and now others have seen them and can make them better either from exhisting resources or from scratch as your case, Zack. I'm "retired" from Trainz content creation, but I still read your updates and what not. It's great to see more Michigan content but don't run your mouth telling a railroad employee that he doesn't know much about trains, just saying.
    Hokay, here's the deal, Ill reply to all 3 comments and one privet message here and at once.

    First off, I do understand that there where fewer tools back when you first started out. But you should have at least had a compass to tell you with way was north and south. And a ruler to get distances right, as well as Google Earth or Google Maps.

    Secondly, I don't mean to insult, I am merely venting some pent up anger. Some of which is from you, and some of which is from work that just happens to spill out else where when I vent. And we have had more then just 5 minuets of interaction. In all of those times you have never demonstrated any railroad knowledge out side of know the exact names of what train runs when on what track on the real roads. We have meet at White Creek twice. The first time I did not know you where this Chrisracer.
    The first time I was working in Hidden Valley, I was with the guys from New Jersey and they had the NYC GP9 working the class yard. It derailed on one of the turnouts and pulled up a guard rail. I pulled the guard rail out, looked and it, and said, "Well damn, we broke a guard rail. Any one have a screw driver so I can fix it?"
    At that time you came up to me, and said it was a frog. I corrected you and pointed out what the frog was, but you insisted that I was wrong and that the locomotive had broken the frog. You even insisted that to Russ, the owner and builder of that railroad.
    Latter that same meet Russ let me use one of his locomotives after he had taken me out on his railroad and showed me how to run every thing. I had asked if I could find a crew if I could take it out on a train. And Russ said yes. So I walked down to the yard and asked Ethan if he wanted to crew with me. He said yes and then asked Ben if we wanted to come. That was all fine and dandy with me, hell I didn't even mind that you wanted to come along. Even though we really only needed two or three crew members. But when you took over the locomotive that I felt responsible for that kinda irked me the wrong way. That would be kinda like your dad handing you the keys to his brand new sports car, telling you too take good care of it, and then I jump in and drive off at 115mph. If any thing had happened to that locomotive, I would have felt responsible for it.

    Next, you say you worked for COE rail, that's fantastic. I have been talking with the former head of track maintenance on trying to get things as right as possible. Though for the time being have stopped work on that route. I am just merging it into my CSX Saginaw Sub. My over arching plan is to build quite a few lines off of that for huge multiplayer reasons. (And yes, I did move those trees. I knew there was some brush there, but wasn't sure. After looking at a few more photo's and Google Earth I fixed them.) But you say you work for the holding company that owns/owned COE rail. Well that's kinda like saying you work for a famous Doctor saving lives in the operating room every day because your the guy who comes in at night and mops the floor.

    Next on my check list is why, why am I building this? Because I can and because I want too. Not to prove that I am better then any one. Not to prove that any one is lesser then me. Simply because this is what I like to do. I like to build routes and I want to build this one first. If you read any thing I have said in the past, both here in the BLOGS and on the FORUMS you see that I have said I like your routes. If I haven't said it, let me say it again. Flaws aside, your routes are good, even fantastic in some places. Back in TRS06 they where about the only routes I ever ran, most notable the CSX Saginaw sub. I live 2 miles from part of it. But they do have a big list of flaws that, in TRS06 when I knew less about the tools I had in my hands, where just things I had to accept. I know that there is no way to get any route 100% accurate, and that builders like you, me, and any one else trying to make a prototypical route as real as possible will have to make some changes and use a little artistic license to get things right.

    And, for now, lastly. The one who is acting snobby is you. When I did say that you had built those routes at White Creek, You said yes. I then replied, and I quote my self "You slaughtered them." Your reply was with a bit of snobby I'm better then you attitude was this, "Well I got a nice fat check for them." Now I would have been fine had you said some thing along the lines of this, "Well, I was working with limited tools and not enough resources. I also had a little bit of a time crunch. But if I had better tools and more time, I know I could have done better."

    And one other thing, these are the blogs, any one can say just about any thing they like. As long is it dose not go against the Forum's main set of rules, and even then, blogs are more lax on those sort of things. So in theory I could make a blog ranting and raving about how pie sucks and cake is superior. But I could not make a forum topic about such thing. I don't know if you have seen it or not, but here is the forum for my route: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showt...creen-Shots%29



    P.S. Last time at White Creek there was a bird that had built its nest on the tracks. And you tried to scare it away. That really up set my girlfriend, and now she wants to rant about it. But I feel that I have rambled on too long as is.
  5. chrisracer8903's Avatar
    I'd like to know who on the MAL you were speaking to because 3 of them including the lead track personell of the actual railroad was and still is a personal friend of mine since high school. I took over his position and currently operate the track works department for our customers' industry tracks with proper training and knowledge so I have been taught how to identify between a frog and a guard rail. Also, I was part of operations of the MAL until the final run this past March. I'm cross-trained by Railmark in other departments of operation, check out Railmark's website if you don't believe me.

    In addition, the White Creek conversations were not as detailed as you described (I love when people say things to sound like they are better than others and leave out other details that hinder their image, heince why parts of this HOBBY make me sick). Yes, some of your above comments are indeed true except for the fat check, your just making yourself sound better. I did state as well that there was a deadline, certain disables and issues I could simply not get around. I also do have a personal life aside from Trainz. Also, I don't see a single comment that is positive about my routes, your first post on this blog is an example, and on the COE blogs.

    Don't get me started about the locomotive operations, your train was tied up for break because the engineer didn't want you operating their train until they returned to the terminal, you were assigned to us by the owner and the whole 2 hour trip was nothing but you constantly crying that you wanted to operate the locomotive which caused Ben and Ethan to get extremely annoyed until we just caved in so you would stop b****ing about it taking turns between the towns we set-out cars at. We didn't say anything to your face because we wanted to be kind until your orginal engineer came back and were no longer a burden to us. We could not get over how an adult would beg like that. You tested Jonathon and Cam's patience this previous time at White Creek as well and we were so embarrised by your behavior.

    In addition to the birds, don't make me sound like I was hurting the bird, it nested over the mainline and other conductors shoowed the bird away so we would not injure it. There was no control over the nest and bird and you know very well. Again, stop leaving out bits to make yourself sound better.

    I normally do not stoop down to this level of fighting or talking negative (aka "Flaming" others) on a forum, but I have never seen so many posts flaming another person, especially on me. That is the reason why I had to share my comments whether other viewers believe them or not - and the moderators will most likely remove these comments. I have self-esteem to say I don't like my name trashed for someone else's gain and you should grow-up, Zack. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say them at all on here like you have on EVERY SINGLE thread you have started, keep them to yourself - like the 6 of us did at White Creek. I am proud of what I was able to accomplish for Trainz 2010 and thanked Auran and N3V Games for letting myself be included in that installment in the series. Money is indeed a nice gesture, but reconition and accomplishment is greater to have.

    I'm done posting back and I'm not going down this road of immaturity on the Internet, I'd rather worry on my actual railroad carreer. In addition, I have some very great documentation I recorded and witnessed of actual trains, rosters, and consists of CSX trains both present and past that operated on the Saginaw Subdivision including a few operating manuvers that make great sessions, but since you are acting this way to me I am not sharing ANY of my documentations nor will I be supporting your projects.
    Updated September 7th, 2012 at 11:58 PM by chrisracer8903
  6. JIb228's Avatar
    Right, let me break this down. First off, if any ones flaming any one, its you. I have been nothing but calm and cool. Politely stating facts as I know them. I have done nothing but merely criticize your work, and state that based on prior incidents I didn't feel like you know what your doing. Basically, you never said you worked for a railroad, or had any prior training. You then made a simple mistake in naming the parts of a turnout, and then argued with me when I tried to correct you. If you put your self in my shoes at that moment, you'd think I have no idea what I'm doing if you didn't know that I had prior railroading experience. I have never once said any thing negative about you that cant be dis-proven. Whereas you keep calling me immature, insulting me on a personal level.

    And as for the train, the engineer was Russ. The day started off with me waiting to be assigned a crew in the locomotive shop. After every one had be assigned a crew Russ looked at me and said that I would be crewed with him and his son. So for most of the day I was running with Russ and Russ's son. That happens to be the day that I got soaked because I forgot my rain jacket in my Jeep. The three of us, Russ, his son, and I took turns at each job, and things where going smoothly. Then when we got back, Russ's son had to leave. Russ was walking up to the shop when I asked him, and I quote "Hay Russ, would it be all right with you, if I can find a crew, if I took that locomotive out for a little bit." To that Russ said yes. That it when I asked Ethan if he wanted to crew up with me. He asked Ben to come along and you followed. You then drove off to Windy Ridge while I ran along side the train trying to get video. Most of the time I sat there bored because you and Ben took over the train, I don't even think you let Ethan do any thing.

    No if I was upset, it cause I was. And I even told you why in my last post. Russ left me in-charge of the locomotive, so if any thing happened to it, regardless of who was doing what, I would be at fault. For example, if you came to one of the layouts that I am a big part of, and I handed you a throttle and assigned you a locomotive, you would be responsible for it. Even if you hand the throttle over to some one else and they break the locomotive, you would be held responsible for fixing it, or the cost of repairs. That's a rule that I have seen at just about every layout I have been to, so I apply it to other layouts that I go to.

    And to be honest, I haven't left out any details. If I have left any thing out, it because its not relevant to the conversation.


    But one thing that you keep saying that has bugged me a little, you keep using my wrong name. No don't get the idea that I use the name Jib as some thing hide behind, cause that you be the wrong idea. Jib is part of my full legal name. So saying Zack as if to try and call me out on some thing isn't going to work as you think.

    Just of consideration, I have been calm, cool and collected this whole time. I am not the one trying to argue any thing. I am just relaying what I know, and voicing my opinion's. And those would be: I don't like your work, and past experiences have led me to not think very highly of you. But the next paragraphs will be me ranting a little.

    First off on my rant, these are the blogs and not the forum. So any thing goes, as I stated earlier.

    Second, if I were acting immature here, I would have called you a doody head and deleted every one of your comment's. Because in the blog's we can do that. But I have done nether of those. I feel this is a conversation that needs to be sorted out and worked out like men, just with out the meeting in a field at dawn and taking 20 paces.

    Third, Ill have to quote you on this:

    but since you are acting this way to me I am not sharing ANY of my documentations nor will I be supporting your projects.
    Aw man I'm totally NOT bummed out about that. Sure more information about the railroad would be fantastic, and I don't care where I get it from. But to get things straight, I was never asking you for support. So to have to say you wont support me is no big deal. To be honest, I don't care what you do. When I release the route and I am ruining a multiplayer session and I happen to see you show up, I'm not going to care. If you want to keep insulting me fine, go right on a head. If you want to just drop it here and now, and just go our separate ways, go right on a head. If you want to meet at dawn and take 20 paces, then fine.

    But let me make this very clear for you, if I haven't all ready. I never insulted you. I stated that I dont like your content, and that I have a problem with you. I never said your an idiot, or that people should hate you, or that you should never be allowed near a train. I have said that I dont like you based on what you have done around me in the past, a simple biased opinion based on only a few days of knowing you. Had I known you better prior to any of this I would have a better opinion of you. But first impression's are every thing.
  7. bnsfben's Avatar
    This is crazy.
    Updated September 18th, 2012 at 11:57 PM by bnsfben
  8. PerRock's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by JIb228
    First off on my rant, these are the blogs and not the forum. So any thing goes, as I stated earlier.
    Actually no, you still have to comply to the Code of Conduct.

    peter
  9. BDP's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisracer8903
    I'd like to know who on the MAL you were speaking to because 3 of them including the lead track personell of the actual railroad was and still is a personal friend of mine since high school. I took over his position and currently operate the track works department for our customers' industry tracks with proper training and knowledge so I have been taught how to identify between a frog and a guard rail. Also, I was part of operations of the MAL until the final run this past March. I'm cross-trained by Railmark in other departments of operation, check out Railmark's website if you don't believe me.

    In addition, the White Creek conversations were not as detailed as you described (I love when people say things to sound like they are better than others and leave out other details that hinder their image, heince why parts of this HOBBY make me sick). Yes, some of your above comments are indeed true except for the fat check, your just making yourself sound better. I did state as well that there was a deadline, certain disables and issues I could simply not get around. I also do have a personal life aside from Trainz. Also, I don't see a single comment that is positive about my routes, your first post on this blog is an example, and on the COE blogs.

    Don't get me started about the locomotive operations, your train was tied up for break because the engineer didn't want you operating their train until they returned to the terminal, you were assigned to us by the owner and the whole 2 hour trip was nothing but you constantly crying that you wanted to operate the locomotive which caused Ben and Ethan to get extremely annoyed until we just caved in so you would stop b****ing about it taking turns between the towns we set-out cars at. We didn't say anything to your face because we wanted to be kind until your orginal engineer came back and were no longer a burden to us. We could not get over how an adult would beg like that. You tested Jonathon and Cam's patience this previous time at White Creek as well and we were so embarrised by your behavior.

    In addition to the birds, don't make me sound like I was hurting the bird, it nested over the mainline and other conductors shoowed the bird away so we would not injure it. There was no control over the nest and bird and you know very well. Again, stop leaving out bits to make yourself sound better.

    I normally do not stoop down to this level of fighting or talking negative (aka "Flaming" others) on a forum, but I have never seen so many posts flaming another person, especially on me. That is the reason why I had to share my comments whether other viewers believe them or not - and the moderators will most likely remove these comments. I have self-esteem to say I don't like my name trashed for someone else's gain and you should grow-up, Zack. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say them at all on here like you have on EVERY SINGLE thread you have started, keep them to yourself - like the 6 of us did at White Creek. I am proud of what I was able to accomplish for Trainz 2010 and thanked Auran and N3V Games for letting myself be included in that installment in the series. Money is indeed a nice gesture, but reconition and accomplishment is greater to have.

    I'm done posting back and I'm not going down this road of immaturity on the Internet, I'd rather worry on my actual railroad carreer. In addition, I have some very great documentation I recorded and witnessed of actual trains, rosters, and consists of CSX trains both present and past that operated on the Saginaw Subdivision including a few operating manuvers that make great sessions, but since you are acting this way to me I am not sharing ANY of my documentations nor will I be supporting your projects.
    Chill out, your routes may not be 100% accurate, but hey it wasn't at home for him so he is making one to fit his needs. Hey their is enough Michigan RTs to go around. Like On My GLC the track work is 100% accurate but does have flaws like no hills, and my scenery is not the best but I don't get up in peoples faces and chant how bad their routes are. Dude He could pull his routes off the DLS and leave trainz forever. Just please Chill both of you
  10. JIb228's Avatar
    If you read the dates on these posts BDP, they are over 6 months old. Ive put this behind me and moved on. And I think Chris has dropped it as well.
  11. BDP's Avatar
    Ok whatever