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jointedrail
September 18th, 2012, 09:16 AM
Hey Guys!

More BETA stuff now in the Club Car section of the store for you. Today we are testing 2 things. First is the rolling stock we are planning to include on the Reading and Northern. Included is a 52ft Gondola, a Bethgon with gecko script, and a new ACF 3 Bay hopper in the R&N scheme.

THE REAL BETA:

What we're really testing here today is our new installers. We have created these installers so that when you download any Jointed Rail content the dependencies will also be installed with it. Gone are the days of buying an engine and then going to our store to search for any dependencies that you may need. Simply download and run the .exe and the installer should install everything for you without the need to touch or open CMP.

ANY AND ALL BUGS TO REPORT WITH THE INSTALLER ONLY: Please send us an email to sean@jointedrail.com

Sean is our new full time programmer and will be working with us in the office on a day to day basis, we hope to be able to deliver some fantastic stuff with this ever expanding team.

Thanks and most of all.... ENJOY!

Jointed Rail

opus722
September 18th, 2012, 10:15 AM
Would it be hard to add a log-in function linked to a JR account in the installer as some form of DRM to prevent people from handing out files? I don't know how big of a problem that is for you guys, but it seems like anything you could do to prevent it would be a good thing. I don't think it would be that much of a hassle on the on the consumer end.

edit: Gah, it says my build number isn't right. Are these not compatible with TS2010 or is it just because I bought it through Steam? I've been looking for an excuse to buy TS2012.

slabay
September 18th, 2012, 11:45 AM
Hey Guys!

More BETA stuff now in the Club Car section of the store for you. Today we are testing 2 things. First is the rolling stock we are planning to include on the Reading and Northern. Included is a 52ft Gondola, a Bethgon with gecko script, and a new ACF 3 Bay hopper in the R&N scheme.

THE REAL BETA:

What we're really testing here today is our new installers. We have created these installers so that when you download any Jointed Rail content the dependencies will also be installed with it. Gone are the days of buying an engine and then going to our store to search for any dependencies that you may need. Simply download and run the .exe and the installer should install everything for you without the need to touch or open CMP.

ANY AND ALL BUGS TO REPORT WITH THE INSTALLER ONLY: Please send us an email to sean@jointedrail.com

Sean is our new full time programmer and will be working with us in the office on a day to day basis, we hope to be able to deliver some fantastic stuff with this ever expanding team.

Thanks and most of all.... ENJOY!

Jointed Rail

Here is my two cents on the matter: I like you guys, I like your content, and I trust you. However, and I'm sure that there are a lot of other people with me on this one, I don't like the idea of .exe's to install content when the .cdp's do just fine. I thought the .cdp's were made as a replacement for the old .exe installers like you find on Trainzluvr and other really old sites. I have downloaded plenty of content (from you guys included) that install locomotives, engine spec's, bogeys, coronas and all, all from a single cdp. I've never really understood why the dependencies have to be downloaded separately, instead of being bundled with the locomotive.

a) We don't include the dependencies to keep the file sizes small, so if you already have one set of gondolas, you don't need a big file to download another gondola because they use the same dependencies.

Makes sense, but now:

b) The .exe includes all of the dependencies, so they can't be made smaller anymore, so how would this be any different than a .cdp?

I'm just throwing it out there. Like I said, I love you guys and your content. If this is a DRM thing, I fully support you guys protecting your content, and it is perfectly understandable. It just touches a nerve if this is touted as a "convenience feature" when the old way already is just as convenient. If it is not a DRM issue, I don't understand the point of fixing something that isn't broken.

Not saying that this will keep me away from your stuff or anything...... I'm just saying that it gives me a funny feeling. Then again, I'm one of those "black helicopters" kind of people.....

colwell27
September 18th, 2012, 12:20 PM
After my download was done my Norton 360 v5.0 tried to remove the file saying it was a unknown file less than a week old and could harm my computer. I trust you guys and told my Norton this was a trusted file (I'm not sure how many people know how to do this). I tried to install the file and it told me my trainz build was out of date. I had to update my trainz build from 48249 to 49922. After I updated my trainz build the installer worked just fine. I found the 52ft gondola and ACF 3 bay hopper but I forgot to look for the bethgon (forgot what I was installing). Now its time to go play.

Jeff

shaneturner12
September 18th, 2012, 12:28 PM
Norton is known for that issue as it has mucked up downloads of my applications as well.

Shane

jointedrail
September 18th, 2012, 01:09 PM
Hi Scott!

We certainly appreciate the feedback. The installer will be a small part DRM, but mainly to ease the ability to update and install the content correctly. This is a beta version so all of the intended features are not there quite yet. In the end this will solve the issue of the customer having to hunt down dependencies on our site. Some of them are version specific depending on what it's using. I'm sure the other guys will chime in on the other details.

THanks

Mike

trainman184
September 18th, 2012, 01:11 PM
While I'm not a Club Car member I assume that these installers would be applied to all payware. I'm not against them as I trust JR. My concern is that if it is for DRM reasons, unless some permissions were set in the config that wouldn't allow JR assets to be saved to a cdp, a determined enough person could still distribute it as a cdp that they created(containing JR content). Meaning that they could bypass the installer by creating a cdp for the asset after its installed. Also I find that if you go to download a cdp(or other type) and it says "xxxxx.cdp.exe" that's a good indication of malware whereas an exe installer doesn't have that extra safety in the occurence of a cyber attack or hackers. Whatever way you guys decide to go I'll support you the best I can. I just thought I'd express a couple concerns I saw.

Micah

deadpoolmx55
September 18th, 2012, 01:13 PM
Google chrome didn't like the exe either

spkelly86
September 18th, 2012, 01:14 PM
Would it be hard to add a log-in function linked to a JR account in the installer as some form of DRM to prevent people from handing out files? I don't know how big of a problem that is for you guys, but it seems like anything you could do to prevent it would be a good thing. I don't think it would be that much of a hassle on the on the consumer end.

edit: Gah, it says my build number isn't right. Are these not compatible with TS2010 or is it just because I bought it through Steam? I've been looking for an excuse to buy TS2012.

What is your current build number? The installer will only work with builds that all JR content is compatible with including 2010. If you can update your build it should fix the issue but if it is up to date then its something that needs to be fixed on my end.

Sean

norfolksouthern37
September 18th, 2012, 01:23 PM
Here is my two cents on the matter: I like you guys, I like your content, and I trust you. However, and I'm sure that there are a lot of other people with me on this one, I don't like the idea of .exe's to install content when the .cdp's do just fine. I thought the .cdp's were made as a replacement for the old .exe installers like you find on Trainzluvr and other really old sites. I have downloaded plenty of content (from you guys included) that install locomotives, engine spec's, bogeys, coronas and all, all from a single cdp. I've never really understood why the dependencies have to be downloaded separately, instead of being bundled with the locomotive.

For me, it was easier to update the dependencies like trucks or sounds or script libraries without having to re-issue a cdp to potentially 1000s of buyers, so that is why JR left it up to the user to get these files.



a) We don't include the dependencies to keep the file sizes small, so if you already have one set of gondolas, you don't need a big file to download another gondola because they use the same dependencies.

Makes sense, but now:

b) The .exe includes all of the dependencies, so they can't be made smaller anymore, so how would this be any different than a .cdp?

I'm just throwing it out there. Like I said, I love you guys and your content. If this is a DRM thing, I fully support you guys protecting your content, and it is perfectly understandable. It just touches a nerve if this is touted as a "convenience feature" when the old way already is just as convenient. If it is not a DRM issue, I don't understand the point of fixing something that isn't broken.

Not saying that this will keep me away from your stuff or anything...... I'm just saying that it gives me a funny feeling. Then again, I'm one of those "black helicopters" kind of people.....

Citing what i said above, now if i want to provide an update to payware say for a major change and want the customer to have access to a patch, the installer can determine whether the customer has already purchased said payware and install the correct files to update it.

Another important issue this takes care of is the amount of emails we get where a customer has downloaded at least 3 links, installed them into CMP (by double-clicking) and tried to run the game to find the items are not there. This is because they were not installed and committed properly and is a relatively simple fix, but it still clogs our support line with the question. The installer will ensure that all items that were intended to come with said product will be installed AND committed leaving none of that up to the user. IT is also my intention that the installer will be able to download anything required from the DLS if the user so chooses to do so at runtime. Finally, the installer also allows install into multiple supported copies of TRS on the same machine, where as you might have a little trouble doing that with a single cdp.

So the beta files that were included may not have actually needed an installer and could have been a single cdp (which they are) but the test was handling this with the installer instead of the user interacting with CMP.

JohnnyC1
September 18th, 2012, 01:32 PM
Installation went fine with a warning from Symantec Endpoint Protection that only 2 other users have used this installer, something that I have never seen before, so I guess Symantec is certifying your installer with a Certificate of Authentication. After the install Over 900 assets became faulty, this was a false positive as when I right clicked on the error asset, it showed non-faulty.

John

colwell27
September 18th, 2012, 01:58 PM
What is your current build number? The installer will only work with builds that all JR content is compatible with including 2010. If you can update your build it should fix the issue but if it is up to date then its something that needs to be fixed on my end.

Sean

I was reading somewhere that there was not an update out for the steam download yet so he will not be able to update his build.

Jeff

hert
September 18th, 2012, 02:14 PM
I was reading somewhere that there was not an update out for the steam download yet so he will not be able to update his build.

Jeff


This is true Steam adds its own stuff to patches to make it compatible with there system. Which means most patches for steam games are extremely long after everyone else get patched.

slabay
September 18th, 2012, 02:14 PM
For me, it was easier to update the dependencies like trucks or sounds or script libraries without having to re-issue a cdp to potentially 1000s of buyers, so that is why JR left it up to the user to get these files.

It was nice that it was almost cafeteria-style that you get a little CDP with the bogies and a little CDP with the car script libraries, since the cars or locos were such big files (the price of detail!), and the old way could at least shave a little bit off of these files. I also liked the fact that the downloads could be used independently too. I'll admit that I've referenced your trucks on stuff that I've reskinned, and with "Uses NorfolkSouthern37's S-2 bogeys- get them at www.jointedrail.com" in the description, I still get the emails about missing dependencies. Very frustrating!! (I've since found that you have some available on the DLS)




Citing what i said above, now if i want to provide an update to payware say for a major change and want the customer to have access to a patch, the installer can determine whether the customer has already purchased said payware and install the correct files to update it.

Another important issue this takes care of is the amount of emails we get where a customer has downloaded at least 3 links, installed them into CMP (by double-clicking) and tried to run the game to find the items are not there. This is because they were not installed and committed properly and is a relatively simple fix, but it still clogs our support line with the question. The installer will ensure that all items that were intended to come with said product will be installed AND committed leaving none of that up to the user. IT is also my intention that the installer will be able to download anything required from the DLS if the user so chooses to do so at runtime. Finally, the installer also allows install into multiple supported copies of TRS on the same machine, where as you might have a little trouble doing that with a single cdp.

So the beta files that were included may not have actually needed an installer and could have been a single cdp (which they are) but the test was handling this with the installer instead of the user interacting with CMP.

I can understand your reasoning.... It is very frustrating to have to provide the same support over and over for people who don't follow directions, don't follow behind in an install and make sure that the assets aren't still "open for edit" (not your fault or theirs- I'm not sure why CMP commits some assets and not others), or tries to install them in TS1849'er or whatever other relic version of Trainz they have clanking around because they haven't upgraded in the past century.

Like I said.... I just am leery of .exe's, quite possibly because I am a Mac person who only uses Windows for Trainz, and I've heard so much about the Windows machines being so prone to viruses, mal-ware, and whatever carried by exe's in the Windows world. By the way, what about the Mac people?? They can't get stuff from .exe's.:o

Either way, I'll still be buying!

spkelly86
September 18th, 2012, 02:26 PM
Like I said.... I just am leery of .exe's, quite possibly because I am a Mac person who only uses Windows for Trainz, and I've heard so much about the Windows machines being so prone to viruses, mal-ware, and whatever carried by exe's in the Windows world. By the way, what about the Mac people?? They can't get stuff from .exe's.:o

Either way, I'll still be buying!

creating .exes with with virus / mal-ware is counter productive to our business model so that won't be an issue. :p

RRSignal
September 18th, 2012, 02:31 PM
So the beta files that were included may not have actually needed an installer and could have been a single cdp (which they are) but the test was handling this with the installer instead of the user interacting with CMP.



Mind if I ask some clarification?

1. Will this ultimately turn into a product activation-style DRM scheme? Exactly what does JR mean by saying this will incorporate "small part DRM"? If so, you can count me as an ex-JR customer right now, but I'd appreciate answers to the rest.

2. I run Trainz on a non-networked machine. Will the new content delivery method still work?

3. Does this new installer run once or is it installed as a service or resident program?

4. Does this new installer install some kind of validation code in Trainz itself, similar to WoT's Gatekeeper?

5. Do we have the option of disabling the search for any dependencies? I already have what is required installed.

6. Can we still install to multiple installations of Trainz that we own? Will the installer work with installations that are copied i.e. don't have the proper Windows registry entries? (I have 3 TS2010 installations, 2 TS12 and two TS12 Beta's on two different computers. Only the betas are "official" since they were the last installed.)

7. What else does the installer do?

I'd appreciate any clarification; I'm ready to install on my "guinea pig" machine.

spkelly86
September 18th, 2012, 02:32 PM
I was reading somewhere that there was not an update out for the steam download yet so he will not be able to update his build.

Jeff

We pulled our compatible build numbers from here http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php5/Trainz_build_versions
There is no 2010 steam version on there, so as long as the version is compatible with JR scripts it can be added to the installer. But I would still need to see the build number :)

GTW1226
September 18th, 2012, 02:47 PM
My Norton keeps aborting the download due to a Threat.

HLJames
September 18th, 2012, 02:56 PM
Guess what, going based on what slabay just posted: I'm a Mac user and being cut out of new content now, and I paid for Club Car to get better content for my installation. I hate how N3V Games doesn't offer a cdp for their DLC since then I'd be able to use it with ease. You guys are about to loose a very loyal customer here if you go this route. And I won't be feeling that great if I can't take advantage of my Club Car membership in the future also, just for being a Mac user. (I ditched Windows long ago since I wanted quality, and have choice)

spkelly86
September 18th, 2012, 02:59 PM
Mind if I ask some clarification?

1. Will this ultimately turn into a product activation-style DRM scheme? Exactly what does JR mean by saying this will incorporate "small part DRM"?

2. I run Trainz on a non-networked machine. Will the new content delivery method still work?

3. Does this new installer run once or is it installed as a service or resident program?

4. Does this new installer install some kind of validation code in Trainz itself, similar to WoT?

5. Do we have the option of disabling the search for any dependencies? I already have what is required installed.

6. What else does the installer do?


1. Product activation is defiantly in the future for it. Right now our goal is simplicity for the general user. Right now it will verify our products are already installed for updating purposes.

2. As of now the .exe does not require a networked machine.

3. After the installer runs you can delete the .exe file and all the files should be in your content manager and fully committed.

4. No

5. As of now the installers will include all dependencies to simplify installation. If the dependency is already installed the installer will simply commit it there should not be any duplicate files.

6. Installs, commits, makes sure Trainz version is compatible with the JR coding, verifies content for updates to any models

We may add more features to it in the future.

Sean

RRSignal
September 18th, 2012, 03:05 PM
1. Product activation is defiantly in the future for it. Right now our goal is simplicity for the general user. Right now it will verify our products are already installed for updating purposes.


Ok, well, then, I will soon be an ex-customer of JointedRail. Do you have a timeframe? I assume the mandatory DRM/Product Activation will require internet access. Also, I amended my post to ask about multiple installations. Any word on this? Thanks for the prompt reply.

opus722
September 18th, 2012, 03:06 PM
The build number for my Steam version of TS2010 is 43361. From what I understand it's more than SP2, but still missing stuff from SP3. I've had no issues whatsoever running JR content though so it should be otherwise compatible.

HLJames
September 18th, 2012, 03:08 PM
Ok, well, then, I will soon be an ex-customer of JointedRail. Do you have a timeframe? Also, I amended my post to ask about multiple installations. Any word on this? Thanks for the prompt reply.
Same here, especially due to I'm a Mac user.

jointedrail
September 18th, 2012, 03:12 PM
We will not be leaving anyone behind. There will still be the old way of getting the files and dependencies just for this reason. We're not forcing you to do anything, this is a BETA. A BETA is a test, this isn't set in stone, we're trying some options here.

Mike

HLJames
September 18th, 2012, 03:14 PM
We will not be leaving anyone behind. There will still be the old way of getting the files and dependencies just for this reason. We're not forcing you to do anything, this is a BETA. A BETA is a test, this isn't set in stone, we're trying some options here.

Mike
Then how come this beta only seems to be available in just a .exe? I'm feeling ripped off just for that, even though I've technically got my moneys worth right now.

RRSignal
September 18th, 2012, 03:15 PM
So, are you saying there will still be a method to get purchases in CDP form even AFTER the DRM scheme is finalized? I'm not just talking the beta period, but going forward?

Sean indicated that the ultimate goal is some form of Product Activation/DRM, which suggests otherwise.

jointedrail
September 18th, 2012, 03:26 PM
You guys are waaay to quick to jump the gun. If you want to participate in the BETA great, that's what it's for, to test. The 3 pieces of content will be freeware when the route is released. If you don't want to BETA this, then don't. This is not a discussion about what if's or maybe's. This is a discussion on how the current BETA is working or not. Any other issues you may have or think you may have, we can discuss that via email.

Thank you.

jointedrail
September 18th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Then how come this beta only seems to be available in just a .exe? I'm feeling ripped off just for that, even though I've technically got my moneys worth right now.

You're feeling ripped off because you are getting extra content for FREE during a BETA? I don't see how this is ripping you off in any way shape or form. Again this is a BETA TEST. You are not forced to participate.

HLJames
September 18th, 2012, 03:29 PM
You guys are waaay to quick to jump the gun. If you want to participate in the BETA great, that's what it's for, to test. The 3 pieces of content will be freeware when the route is released. If you don't want to BETA this, then don't. This is not a discussion about what if's or maybe's. This is a discussion on how the current BETA is working or not. Any other issues you may have or think you may have, we can discuss that via email.

Thank you.
Sorry if I was a problem in any way, but how am I suppose to "BETA" the content if I can't install it due to the .exe? The first post makes it sound like you wanted the content tested but as a bonus it'd be nice for people to test the .exe installer - it wasn't worded in the way where you guys wanted both tested at the same time just one or the other if people could. Sorry once again, I can easily get confused sometimes.

EDIT: Excuse me, just saw the response to my post. Once again, I'm sorry, I just felt due to the previous content being available I'd be able to have this to test also. I'll move on now and let things develop. I've made the mistake of getting on the wagon of assuming before I should of.

opus722
September 18th, 2012, 03:31 PM
On a more positive note the installer looks nice since I was expecting one of those spartan grey deals.

jointedrail
September 18th, 2012, 03:31 PM
Sorry if I was a problem in any way, but how am I suppose to "BETA" the content if I can't install it due to the .exe? The first post makes it sound like you wanted the content tested but as a bonus it'd be nice for people to test the .exe installer - it wasn't worded in the way where you guys wanted both tested at the same time just one or the other if people could. Sorry once again, I can easily get confused sometimes.

EDIT: Excuse me, just saw the response to my post. Once again, I'm sorry, I just felt due to the previous content being available I'd be able to have this to test also. I'll move on now and let things develop.

This is from the original post:

Hey Guys!

More BETA stuff now in the Club Car section of the store for you. Today we are testing 2 things. First is the rolling stock we are planning to include on the Reading and Northern. Included is a 52ft Gondola, a Bethgon with gecko script, and a new ACF 3 Bay hopper in the R&N scheme.

THE REAL BETA:

What we're really testing here today is our new installers. We have created these installers so that when you download any Jointed Rail content the dependencies will also be installed with it. Gone are the days of buying an engine and then going to our store to search for any dependencies that you may need. Simply download and run the .exe and the installer should install everything for you without the need to touch or open CMP.

ANY AND ALL BUGS TO REPORT WITH THE INSTALLER ONLY: Please send us an email to sean@jointedrail.com

WHEN CONTACTING PLEASE INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:

Trainz Version:
Build #
Name
Username




Sean is our new full time programmer and will be working with us in the office on a day to day basis, we hope to be able to deliver some fantastic stuff with this ever expanding team.

Thanks and most of all.... ENJOY!

Jointed Rail

spkelly86
September 18th, 2012, 03:32 PM
Justin will clerify

spkelly86
September 18th, 2012, 03:33 PM
On a more positive note the installer looks nice since I was expecting one of those spartan grey deals.

lol thanks. :D

HLJames
September 18th, 2012, 03:35 PM
Thanks jointedrail (Mike)

I understand the "real beta" part, it's just that my mind disconnected and thought you were saying about 2 different betas due to the mention of "testing 2 things" - could you emphasize what that part should of meant a little bit more if you don't mind?

RRSignal
September 18th, 2012, 03:37 PM
The future of the installer would be connecting to the webserver after a purchase, inputting the confirmation number, and then the installer downloading the files and installing/committing them. Its more or less how it works now, except the installer downloads it. Maybe "product activation" isn't the right wording for it.

Sean

Yes, it's absolutely Product Activation/DRM, the wording is correct. Let's put it this way: If you go out of business or decide to stop approving future activations tomorrow, would people still be able to install the content 5 or 10 years from now? As it stands, I can download the CDPs I purchase and install them now, tomorrow pr 10 years from now, whether I have an internet connection or not. Seeing as almost all of the games/sims I run are over 10 years old and most are 20-30, it's a concern.

norfolksouthern37
September 18th, 2012, 03:47 PM
I want to further expand on what has already been answered here.



1. Will this ultimately turn into a product activation-style DRM scheme? Exactly what does JR mean by saying this will incorporate "small part DRM"? If so, you can count me as an ex-JR customer right now, but I'd appreciate answers to the rest.


Not for all products being installed. There will be a future version of a generic content installer that will allow a customer to input their site details and gain access to all of the items they have purchased. This will not be sent with every purchase, but will be available on the site for those interested. The download sent via the purchase email will be an installer much like this one that does not do any network searching or downloading, it simply installs the product and all of it's required assets.




2. I run Trainz on a non-networked machine. Will the new content delivery method still work?


Yes, this is simply an installer for said content.



3. Does this new installer run once or is it installed as a service or resident program?


It only runs to install the content. Do what you wish after that, but as usual we recommend a backup of your purchase.



4. Does this new installer install some kind of validation code in Trainz itself, similar to WoT's Gatekeeper?


No. There are no plans to require a validation code in the game since we cannot predict how it will function in the future.



5. Do we have the option of disabling the search for any dependencies? I already have what is required installed.


There is no searching for dependencies or other network activity from this installer.



6. Can we still install to multiple installations of Trainz that we own? Will the installer work with installations that are copied i.e. don't have the proper Windows registry entries? (I have 3 TS2010 installations, 2 TS12 and two TS12 Beta's on two different computers. Only the betas are "official" since they were the last installed.)


The search for properly installed versions is simply for convenience. If you know the location of a Trainz install you wish to direct it to then do so. The content will however only install into Trainz builds that it recognizes as being compatible. This is obviously beneficial to us and the user since we do not need support emails about how installing the content into TC did not succeed.



7. What else does the installer do?


Nothing. It extracts data and installs it using the game's trainzutil.exe, and ensures it is committed properly.




Now to address Mac users: We will explore options for this platform as well, but you will not be left out. As Mike said, there was a lot of jumping the gun here.

norfolksouthern37
September 18th, 2012, 04:03 PM
Yes, it's absolutely Product Activation/DRM, the wording is correct. Let's put it this way: If you go out of business or decide to stop approving future activations tomorrow, would people still be able to install the content 5 or 10 years from now? As it stands, I can download the CDPs I purchase and install them now, tomorrow pr 10 years from now, whether I have an internet connection or not. Seeing as almost all of the games/sims I run are over 10 years old and most are 20-30, it's a concern.

Even more clarification:

There are 3 levels of installer planned with the intention of keeping things easy for the customer.

1. Content Installer (early version being tested here) - This will be fully self contained install package of the required files, requires no internet connection and can be used multiple times. This IS the content.

2. Update/Patch Installer - This will allow us to make major changes to content without actually redistributing a whole new installer with all of the content to everyone who has purchased it. There will be no product activation or anything like that, the only requirement is that the product being updated already exists in the current Trainz installation.

3. Download Manager - This will require the user to enter his/her site login details and retrieve a list of purchased items from our database. The user will then be able to select and install products from the list. This is the only version that will require any kind of user information (just like the site does) and also the only version that will contact JR over the internet to get any content. This version is still in the early planning stages and is still some time out.

slabay
September 18th, 2012, 04:18 PM
WOW! I feel like I really kicked the hornet's nest here!!

I've been at it for over two years now in the Trainz community, and I still have my little snafus here and there. I bought your CR SD70MAC within the past two months or so and wasn't able to get it to work, downloaded the dependencies again, still couldn't get it to work, and if I recall correctly, the issue was not having the interior, which I was able to find, install, and get working. I consider myself a pretty experienced user, and it took a little chasing down of things to get everything working. I can imagine a new user's frustration, especially with a piece of payware, when they can't get it to work right.

After seeing countless threads in the forums "Jointed Rail Sucks!" "I HATE you guys!" "I'm going to sue you out of existence" and whatnot from these very sorts of people, who typically install, doesn't work, and get the flamethrower out from the closet, it is certainly understandable to make it an automatic process.

Although I've been too broke to make the jump onto the Club Car (my day will still come!), and I haven't actually been able to download and try this, I like that you guys have put it out to test like this. I'm glad I could have planted the bug in your ears to not forget about the Mac people, and I'm interested in seeing where this goes.

norfolksouthern37
September 18th, 2012, 04:24 PM
There was never any intention of abandoning or forgetting about anyone. The only purpose here was testing a very early version of the content installer.

muniman
September 18th, 2012, 05:10 PM
First shot at running it resulted in COMODO Firewall going nuts with warnings about the .exe attempting to access and modify various COM interfaces and registry keys. I trust that .exe, so I disabled COMODO and tried again without it. It worked smoothly until I hit "install". The program reached "Communicating with the Trainz Database [...]" and stayed there for half an hour before I shut it down via Windows Task Manager (the only way I could shut it down at all), when it gave me an "Unresponsive task" error.

That aside, I think this idea of creating a clean program that will install things for you with the target result of completely error-free content is wonderful, and could be groundbreaking if ironed out properly.

norfolksouthern37
September 18th, 2012, 05:38 PM
Yep, that is what we are trying to do here. what version and build did you try to install it into?

spkelly86
September 18th, 2012, 05:40 PM
The program reached "Communicating with the Trainz Database [...]"

You aren't the first one with that issue. It shouldn't take more then a few minutes to see a response. Its mostly with the 10 builds. We are trying to figure out how to fix it atm.
Thanks for the input.

Sean

RRSignal
September 18th, 2012, 05:44 PM
3. Download Manager - This will require the user to enter his/her site login details and retrieve a list of purchased items from our database. The user will then be able to select and install products from the list. This is the only version that will require any kind of user information (just like the site does) and also the only version that will contact JR over the internet to get any content. This version is still in the early planning stages and is still some time out.

Thanks, this clarifies how things are going to progress for the most part. I still would like to know, though: Is (3), the Download Manager version, ultimately going to be the ONLY way to purchase or install JR content, or will content still be available by individual installer (i.e. version 1 or 2) in the distant future?

ETA: Nobody's saying JR intends to abandon or forget about anybody. Nor, I am sure, did Walmart, Amazon, Microsoft, and many other producers and distributors of digital goods intend to leave their customers behind. But, it happens. A lot. Whether intended or not. So, please understand that I'm conducting due diligence by asking ahead of time.

muniman
September 18th, 2012, 06:03 PM
That would be TRS09, V3.3. Still need to try it with TRS12.

norfolksouthern37
September 18th, 2012, 06:10 PM
Thanks, this clarifies how things are going to progress for the most part. I still would like to know, though: Is (3), the Download Manager version, ultimately going to be the ONLY way to purchase or install JR content, or will content still be available by individual installer (i.e. version 1 or 2) in the distant future?

The Download Manager will simply be an alternative, freely available on the site and will NOT be required to install JR products. It is intended to give each user a central location to view and install past purchases. 1 will be the standard product distribution should things work out. 2 will be used to apply needed updates to items.


ETA: Nobody's saying JR intends to abandon or forget about anybody. Nor, I am sure, did Walmart, Amazon, Microsoft, and many other producers and distributors of digital goods intend to leave their customers behind. But, it happens. A lot. Whether intended or not. So, please understand that I'm conducting due diligence by asking ahead of time.

Understandable, but there is a difference between being left behind and refusing the move ahead. We will not purposely leave anyone out, as with the evolution of the Trainz series, that will be their choice.

jointedrail
September 18th, 2012, 06:13 PM
Thanks, this clarifies how things are going to progress for the most part. I still would like to know, though: Is (3), the Download Manager version, ultimately going to be the ONLY way to purchase or install JR content, or will content still be available by individual installer (i.e. version 1 or 2) in the distant future?

ETA: Nobody's saying JR intends to abandon or forget about anybody. Nor, I am sure, did Walmart, Amazon, Microsoft, and many other producers and distributors of digital goods intend to leave their customers behind. But, it happens. A lot. Whether intended or not. So, please understand that I'm conducting due diligence by asking ahead of time.

Unlike the Big Guys mentioned above, YOUR opinion is important to us. We want to be able to make the majority of our users happy. If this isn't something that you like or care to use then I will make sure those folks are taken care even if it means sending those folks the files individually. It's my job to make sure you're happy with what we're doing, and I'll make sure that happens. If we have to do it the old fashioned way to keep you as a customer, then so be it.

Thanks!

Mike

RRSignal
September 18th, 2012, 06:20 PM
Cool, guys, thanks for the clarification. And that's one of the thing I appreciate so much about JointedRail - that you DO care and are so good to your customers! :)

P.S. Off to beta-land! hehe! :)

davidakridge
September 18th, 2012, 09:48 PM
My install is stuck at "Retrieving Trainz Version Number"

Scoot
September 19th, 2012, 08:06 AM
I had no issues getting the content into Trainz. The installer looks nice with the picture of the cars, so it makes the download a bit better in itself. I've used other games where downloads come like this so it's nothing new to me, and I personally think it's a pretty good idea.

But I'll be fine with whatever way is chosen. Thanks Jointed Rail for letting us try out this beta for you, and looking forward to helping you guys more in the future.

Scott

davidakridge
September 19th, 2012, 11:20 AM
Guys,

Once again i'm getting "Retrieving Trainz Version Number" and it just stays there and doesn't go any further. I'm having to choose the path of the TS12 install, then it just sits. I need some suggestions!!


-David

colwell27
September 19th, 2012, 11:31 AM
What is your build number? If you are using TS12 make sure your build is 49922

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?81424-Trainz-TS10-and-TS12-Hot-fix-Patches-released

Jeff

spkelly86
September 19th, 2012, 12:07 PM
Guys,
Once again i'm getting "Retrieving Trainz Version Number" and it just stays there and doesn't go any further. I'm having to choose the path of the TS12 install, then it just sits. I need some suggestions!!

For some people the installer is having issues communicating with the content manager. We are currently fixing this problem and will reissue the .exe. What is the version number of your trainz installation?

Sean

davidakridge
September 19th, 2012, 01:02 PM
For some people the installer is having issues communicating with the content manager. We are currently fixing this problem and will reissue the .exe. What is the version number of your trainz installation?

Sean

I just checked and i'm on 49922

david

colwell27
September 19th, 2012, 01:15 PM
When I installed the .exe file I did not have content manager open. After reading some of the problem some people are having I just wanted to make sure people know that they sould close content manager before installing the .exe file.

Jeff

Gabe170
September 19th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Whoa! My apologies if I am missing something, but, I don't have the internet on my gaming computer that I run Trainz on. Does this new .exe installer mean that I won't be able to purchase future content? I really hope not! I was/am really looking forward to the upcoming content. Please tell me there are some options. I would really appreciate files being individually sent even if that costs a few more bucks.

Regards.

spkelly86
September 19th, 2012, 02:46 PM
Whoa! My apologies if I am missing something, but, I don't have the internet on my gaming computer that I run Trainz on. Does this new .exe installer mean that I won't be able to purchase future content? I really hope not! I was/am really looking forward to the upcoming content. Please tell me there are some options.

The installer does not require internet connection to install. You can transfer it via jump drive, cd, floppy disc, beta max, or any other method and it should still work. :)

Sean

RRSignal
September 19th, 2012, 02:47 PM
Whoa! My apologies if I am missing something, but, I don't have the internet on my gaming computer that I run Trainz on. Does this new .exe installer mean that I won't be able to purchase future content? I really hope not! I was/am really looking forward to the upcoming content. Please tell me there are some options. I would really appreciate files being individually sent even if that costs a few more bucks.

Regards.

No, you should be fine. The internet-enabled download manager is going to be an option, in addition to the non-internet installers.

Edit: Sean beat me to it.

davidakridge
September 19th, 2012, 06:27 PM
When I installed the .exe file I did not have content manager open. After reading some of the problem some people are having I just wanted to make sure people know that they sould close content manager before installing the .exe file.

Jeff

I tried again with everything closed and had the same problem. It's asking me for the directory of the Trainz install. I'm choosing the path that leads to ....nv3games/ts12.

David

spkelly86
September 19th, 2012, 06:34 PM
I tried again with everything closed and had the same problem. It's asking me for the directory of the Trainz install. I'm choosing the path that leads to ....nv3games/ts12.

Thats the right path...
It sounds like the program is having problems contacting the file. Since its on the C: drive it might need permission. Try to run it as administrator if possible.

DaveL
September 21st, 2012, 10:44 AM
FWIW, I just installed both betas and they worked as advertised.......a job well done guys !!!

DaveL

jointedrail
September 21st, 2012, 02:18 PM
Hey guys, those wishing to continue to test the BETA version the file has been updated. Version (0.3) BETA is up on the Club Car beta section now!

Thanks.

Mike

opus722
September 21st, 2012, 02:32 PM
It is working with the Steam TS2010 now with no problems.

davidakridge
September 22nd, 2012, 02:08 PM
Thats the right path...
It sounds like the program is having problems contacting the file. Since its on the C: drive it might need permission. Try to run it as administrator if possible.

I logged in as administrator and had the same problem. The new install is giving me "Could Not Find TrainzUtil.exe in."

Firefighterdan
September 23rd, 2012, 11:30 PM
I have tried it in both 10 and 12 with no luck.

norfolksouthern37
September 23rd, 2012, 11:43 PM
I have tried it in both 10 and 12 with no luck.

describe "no luck"

Firefighterdan
September 23rd, 2012, 11:52 PM
I hit the exe file, it ask's me to run the program. It opens another window and hit next to continue. I hit that and it says to agree with the terms, I hit agree and it locks up for a minute then disappears with no trace.

chunkpowers
September 24th, 2012, 07:32 AM
same here as soon as i select accept it locks up and crashes

spkelly86
September 24th, 2012, 12:15 PM
The program was having an issue with certain path locations. I fixed the error and re-posted the installer.

Sean

B99
September 24th, 2012, 01:31 PM
I've always wondered about interiors. Not to be picky, but the colors of the hood from the inside are always different than from the outside. Especially at a night time setting. For example, the SD40 and SD50 have the same shade of green I would assume:

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/gg627/brouse99/b99_20120924_0002_zpsb64e6633.jpg

davidakridge
September 24th, 2012, 01:50 PM
The program was having an issue with certain path locations. I fixed the error and re-posted the installer.

Sean

New install in still giving me "Could Not Find TrainzUtil.exe in.". I have turned off my antivirus, loggied in as admin. The gives me this message then freezes. I have to run Task Manager to dump the program.

-david

chunkpowers
September 24th, 2012, 02:06 PM
ok wanted to thank Sean for his quick fix to the problem i redownloaded the EXE and it worked perferct i am runnind TS12 build 49922

norfolksouthern37
September 24th, 2012, 03:00 PM
I've always wondered about interiors. Not to be picky, but the colors of the hood from the inside are always different than from the outside. Especially at a night time setting. For example, the SD40 and SD50 have the same shade of green I would assume:

In all current trainz builds the interior model is lit by a static light source (not the world light). The exterior seen from the cab is simply an extension of this model and is also lit by the same light. This has been an annoyance for me for a long time. TS12 SP1 should have a setting for lighting the outside of the cab with the world light on properly configured assets so until then this is about all we can do.

spkelly86
September 24th, 2012, 03:07 PM
New install in still giving me "Could Not Find TrainzUtil.exe in."

Where at in the installation process are you getting this error? Where you able to input your own directory?


Sean

davidakridge
September 24th, 2012, 04:30 PM
Where at in the installation process are you getting this error? Where you able to input your own directory?


Sean

No Sean, it quit asking me for a directory. It just sits for a few secondes then gives me the popup! It's strange. In the earlier releases it was giving me a choice to choose a directory.

Happens after I click "Install"

david

spkelly86
September 24th, 2012, 04:32 PM
No Sean, it quit asking me for a directory. It just sits for a few secondes then gives me the popup! It's strange. In the earlier releases it was giving me a choice to choose a directory.

Wow that's odd....its not even loading the directory page? What OS are you using and what version of trainz is it trying to access?

davidakridge
September 24th, 2012, 04:57 PM
Wow that's odd....its not even loading the directory page? What OS are you using and what version of trainz is it?

Windows 7 and version 49922.

spkelly86
September 24th, 2012, 06:01 PM
Happens after I click "Install"

the only place on the program where there is an Install button is on the directory page. Can you take a screenshot for me of where it ends up before it crashes.

davidakridge
September 24th, 2012, 06:11 PM
the only place on the program where there is an Install button is on the directory page. Can you take a screenshot for me of where it ends up before it crashes.

Yes, I'm still at work and may be later tonight.

david

Firefighterdan
September 24th, 2012, 08:14 PM
Worked like a champ for my TS10 and 12 Thank you everyone at Jointed Rail! :wave:

davidakridge
September 25th, 2012, 07:51 PM
the only place on the program where there is an Install button is on the directory page. Can you take a screenshot for me of where it ends up before it crashes.

I click on the installer and it goes here:

http://images.pcmac.org//images/Users/god@trainzsessions.com//Shot-1.JPG

I click Next and I get:

http://images.pcmac.org//images/Users/god@trainzsessions.com//Shot-2.JPG

I click "I Agree" and I get:

http://images.pcmac.org//images/Users/god@trainzsessions.com//Shot-3.JPG

Then i click "Install" it hanges and I get the following message:

http://images.pcmac.org//images/Users/god@trainzsessions.com//Shot-4.JPG

spkelly86
September 26th, 2012, 12:03 PM
:confused: That's not right....did you download the most recent one. I believe its at 0.3.2 atm. It seems like one of the pages is duplicated on load.

chunkpowers
September 26th, 2012, 12:47 PM
make sure you delete the old from your place that you downloaded first

jointedrail
September 26th, 2012, 04:10 PM
Thread closed, please see OPEN BETA thread.

Thanks,

Jointed Rail.