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simking1
July 5th, 2012, 03:14 PM
Greetings All I Need some help here!
I have been racking my brain trying to get a working turntable for a container ship so I can back into the slip The NL.interactive drivable container ship something or another. The ship is 600ft long,According to the ruler,I have Vulcan's aircraft turntables and an invisible one made for ships..problem is i believe its too small the arrows disappear so I added a turntable command and use buoys inline with the arrows...yet for nothing I cannot get it to turn I think the ship is just too long.any suggestions? I tried a Y that wont work the curves are too sharp and the bay is too small the sip (derails) its the Tidewater North map by the way the small bay by the large bridge.
any suggestions would be helpful thanks.

Scottbe8
July 5th, 2012, 04:06 PM
Make a bigger wye.

boyerm25
July 5th, 2012, 04:56 PM
You can back the ship into the bay and drive it forwards out.
What's the point of having drivable ships anyway? I mean, it's a Train ​simulator.

Barry
July 6th, 2012, 10:28 AM
You can back the ship into the bay and drive it forwards out.
What's the point of having drivable ships anyway? I mean, it's a Train ​simulator.


No! the phrase is 'it's a train simulator you know!!
Good luck to all the drivable ship users in Trainz. No idea if my drivable boats and drivable horse drawn narrow boats still work, as made about 2004. My complex docks may still work. Former drivable ship creator and creator of drivable ship routes in Trainz. Now make similar docks and coastal routes c1800-c1833 in Blender Game Engine. Barry

mjolnir
July 6th, 2012, 01:27 PM
OK. I've been thinking about how to do this, because eventually I, too, wish to have container ships docking, and also represent river barges with towboats. Among the resources I have made use of are the videos at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1PTYOIgYFo and at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARPHvX4Ijw8, which demonstrate that docking a containership is under the control of tugboats, not under its own power. In my view, you're on a better path with the Y than the turntable, and if the other legs of the Y won't fit in the bay, the ship would back out (or back in and head out forward) further, so extend the leg of the Y which comes up to the slip.

Another thought: I don't know exactly how long it takes to load and unload containers from the ship, process them, and then load or unload containers from a train, but I expect that in the real world it's not a matter of driving the train up to the ship and loading the ship from the train. I'd guess that if a container is booked to sail on a ship that's leaving, that the container has to be in the port a significant period of time in advance--perhaps 24 hours, so that there is time to process all necessary paperwork, inspect the container, and get it staged in the appropriate location in the container port. It also takes a significant amount of time (probably measured in days) to load and unload a containership. With this in mind, it might be worth considering the containership a kind of scenery item (unless YOU want to drive it) so that for several consecutive trips the ship is there, and then it is gone for an extended period. Keep in mind, too, that containership routes are measured in weeks. If the ship is at a particular port today, the same ship will not be back at the same port for 10, 12, or more weeks. The ship there next week might look similar, but it is not the same ship.

ns

ns

simking1
July 6th, 2012, 11:10 PM
OK. I've been thinking about how to do this, because eventually I, too, wish to have container ships docking, and also represent river barges with towboats. Among the resources I have made use of are the videos at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1PTYOIgYFo and at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARPHvX4Ijw8, which demonstrate that docking a containership is under the control of tugboats, not under its own power. In my view, you're on a better path with the Y than the turntable, and if the other legs of the Y won't fit in the bay, the ship would back out (or back in and head out forward) further, so extend the leg of the Y which comes up to the slip.

Another thought: I don't know exactly how long it takes to load and unload containers from the ship, process them, and then load or unload containers from a train, but I expect that in the real world it's not a matter of driving the train up to the ship and loading the ship from the train. I'd guess that if a container is booked to sail on a ship that's leaving, that the container has to be in the port a significant period of time in advance--perhaps 24 hours, so that there is time to process all necessary paperwork, inspect the container, and get it staged in the appropriate location in the container port. It also takes a significant amount of time (probably measured in days) to load and unload a containership. With this in mind, it might be worth considering the containership a kind of scenery item (unless YOU want to drive it) so that for several consecutive trips the ship is there, and then it is gone for an extended period. Keep in mind, too, that containership routes are measured in weeks. If the ship is at a particular port today, the same ship will not be back at the same port for 10, 12, or more weeks. The ship there next week might look similar, but it is not the same ship.

ns

ns

Yes in the real world that's how it works I have been on large ships.
Loading is easy the ship is basically its own consist in a boat skin so it uses the Same industry
I use the muli industry set up for containers and set it to load in an hour or so.
The problem is its long so it needs lots of room to turn and large curves that's why I was looking to use a turntable. Tugs would not help as the "ship" needs track under it.

H222
July 7th, 2012, 05:53 AM
You can back the ship into the bay and drive it forwards out.
What's the point of having drivable ships anyway? I mean, it's a Train ​simulator.

Well gee. Ships unload and load containers which are then put on trains do they not? I suppose it adds realism to it. I have a working airport with drivable planes on some of my routes and I use these to look at the trains, and when you look up and see a plane it adds a sense of realism. So, it is a Train simulator, but the sim also tries to be realistic


​Jamie

boyerm25
July 7th, 2012, 08:11 AM
Oh, you know, that does sound fun. Is ould try that...

simking1
July 7th, 2012, 05:18 PM
Oh, you know, that does sound fun. Is ould try that...

Yes I deliver the containers. By train and they load on the ship now all weneed is
mod a turntable to fit a 165ft (train) ship.

bendorsey
July 8th, 2012, 08:18 AM
I've made a number of turntables and see no reason why a large one can't be made. I do however see a potential operational problem. The 2 red curved arrows that control it are fixed in position and would almost certainly be underneath the ships hull and possibly unseen. They would be there tho so I guess if you click about where you think they are you should eventually hit them but thats probably not what folks would want to do.

BTW - - - the opposite is also true. Some time ago I made some broad gauge turntables that were only about 16 to 20 ft in diameter. I found out they were very hard to control because the red arrows were not on top of any part of the mesh. I had to add a larger diameter part (hidden underground) so the red arrows would be on top of the mesh and remain visible when you went to click on one.

Ben

simking1
July 8th, 2012, 10:05 AM
I've made a number of turntables and see no reason why a large one can't be made. I do however see a potential operational problem. The 2 red curved arrows that control it are fixed in position and would almost certainly be underneath the ships hull and possibly unseen. They would be there tho so I guess if you click about where you think they are you should eventually hit them but that's probably not what folks would want to do.

BTW - - - the opposite is also true. Some time ago I made some broad gauge turntables that were only about 16 to 20 ft in diameter. I found out they were very hard to control because the red arrows were not on top of any part of the mesh. I had to add a larger diameter part (hidden underground) so the red arrows would be on top of the mesh and remain visible when you went to click on one.

Ben

That is why you put a buoy or some water type object for reference (I use a shark) at the arrows as reference and use the turntable rule problem solved. That is a handy rule i never mess wit arrows for any turntable. If you could make one that would be great:) the ship/train I use is called the Usa /NL - Drivable ship Nedlloy Rouen container Ship

boyerm25
July 8th, 2012, 11:12 AM
Is it on the DLS?

bendorsey
July 8th, 2012, 03:00 PM
Good iea about the shark and a bouy at each ends of the TT might be a good idea so you don't have the boat partially on and partially off the TT when you activate it.

How large in diameter do you want it and just 2 setpoints (0 and 180 degrees)?

I assume it goes under water (and possibly under the sea floor) so I need to know how deep you want it. It must have at least one physical part or you get a "nothing to export" error (tho this probably needs two ( something big enough so the red arrorws work properly and a simple part for the spinner (both underground).

I don't need a drivable ship as I can test it with a loco. Might look weird but will work for testing purposes (its what I do when testing bridges setup to open at the approach of a boat).

Ben

simking1
July 8th, 2012, 07:19 PM
Well I have been using a smaller invisible turntable that was on the DLS that would be perfect it was made for Boats/ferry's the tracks connect higher as its meant for water it just needs to be longer.KUID2:60697:28003:1 I measured the ship with the ruler tool it was 168ft I would say 170-200 ft because I don't know where the contact points or (bogeys) are located in the thing and yes just 0 and 180 as far as depth? who knows if its invisible you could place it at the track level i guess I am not sure.I think it will be a valuable asset for those who love making ports.
Thanks

bendorsey
July 9th, 2012, 08:45 AM
Ok on 200 ft diameter and 2 setpoints but the invisible track level is very important. My auto bridges that open at the approach of a boat use -10 meters (32 ft 9 in) and ground level. It all depends on how the boat you plan to use it setup. There are some standards (sorta). Vulcans fantastical boats (and others) have a set I'm sure for example.

I'd suggest you run a little test. Set your boat on ground level track and see how it looks. Is it floating above thre ground, sunk into the ground, or about right? Adjust the track height if necessary and tell me what you end up with.

Normally a turntable is not height adjustable but it might be possible (I'll check).


Ben

EDIT: OK I can make one height adjustable but it messes up the dighole. HOWEVER!!! this would already be below ground and should not have any visible parts other then the controlling red arrrows so I might not need a dig hole. I would texture the parts with glass which would be hard to see under water but not too hard (you might need to delete one now and then, lol).

simking1
July 9th, 2012, 08:12 PM
I screwed up its 750ft real scale long the (ship) not 600 as I said in the first post I don't know why I said 200ft before
the height of the track now is 226.12 that puts it right at the waterline. Can a turntable even be that large?

vulcan
July 10th, 2012, 03:21 AM
Hi Guys,

I have a turntable for ships, unreleased, length 120 metres. It has stopping points at 0, 60, 120 and 180 degrees, and pylons in the water either side of the table, at the center line. This lets you know the position of the center of the turntable. It also has small flashing coronas at water level, to mark the ends of the rotating table, so you can position a ship correctly. These need to be at a distance from the table at least half the table length, so the ships do not run over them when rotating (a realistic visual issue only).

As you noted, a large ship hides the red arrows to operate the table, and you need to use the Move Turntable rule. You also need a very large invisible square as part of the model so you can get the red arrows to work, that is, when you can see them, not hidden by a ship. A turntable needs a part of the main mesh behind the red arrows when you are clicking on the arrows.

The table has to be long enough for the bogeys to fit on the rotating spinner. The ship you mention I believe has bogeys about -90 and +80 metres, this means that the table has to be about 200 metres long, and the bogeys are not centralised on the ship, therefore it might be a little tricky to place the ship.

The standards for my ships are to have the invisible track at ground level (zero say) and the water level 3 metres below that (-3 metres). This gives a reasonable height to a river bank for texturing. My 120 metre turntable uses these standards, so the flashing coronas are at water level and the pylons extend above water level.

A larger 200 metres turntable could be made from my model, I guess.

Ian

bendorsey
July 10th, 2012, 07:55 AM
Hi Ian:

Nice to know it has been done (so will work).

I knew about the large square or circle) requirement having run into that problem with those very small broasd gauge turntables.

I'll try 1000 ft diameter and see what happens.

Ben

bendorsey
July 10th, 2012, 09:32 AM
Hi Simking1:

Its made and tested. Works just fine. I textured it with that built-in (Gmax) glass texture so hopefully it won't be noticable under water. It does not requite a dighole and is height adjustable so I'll just leave the invisible track heights at 0 ft 0.0 in so you can see everything when first placing it in a scene on a route then adjust it to what ever depth you need.

PM me your e-mail address and I'll send it to you for testing. Its currently in TRS2004 format but should run thru the various CCPs and convert to newer versions. After your approval I'll upload it to the TPR site as 2004 content then run it thru TS2010 which will convert it to 2009 format and upload that to the DLS.

Ben

simking1
July 12th, 2012, 09:30 PM
It works too bad my turntable rule won't work but the table works.

bendorsey
July 13th, 2012, 08:10 AM
Look at the config file for a TT that does work with the TT rule. Might be a slight difference that you can add.

Ben.