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vonhammer_87
June 29th, 2012, 08:05 AM
Hey everyone

I'm currently working on route the MAF&I Manistee, Arcadia, Frankfort and Interlochen. The route is set in north west Michigan in the 1920s-1940 and is a class 3 railroad.

My question is what kinda of rolling stock would one see during this time period? Commodities include lumber, coal, gravel, livestock, produce, woodchips, grain

Need some help in determing what types of cars would be used for what products on this era.

Thanks.

Euphod
June 29th, 2012, 08:54 AM
The grain and wood chips may have been carried in boxcars at the early part of that time period. Long board lumber would probably be in boxcars as well, albeit with a lumber loading door. Livestock would be in livestock cars and coal and gravel most likely in gondolas early on. The produce would be in ice reefers. To the best of my knowledge.

steamboateng
June 29th, 2012, 08:59 AM
Freight cars would be limited to 40' generally. Most boxcars were steel sided with outside braced wood 40 footers, not uncommon; the 50' double door 'auto-box' became available in later 40's. Reefers would generally be wood sided w/ice hatches. Mechanical refigeration wasn't common 'till the 50's. Plain flat cars carried lumber and machinery; with 'deep well' flats limited to specific cargoes (large transformers, for instance). Search old railroad magazines for pix of the various gons and hoppers; again much shorter than todays giants; often being limited to tonnage across bridges and the like. Many old pix are avilable at the Google searches.

vonhammer_87
June 29th, 2012, 09:54 AM
Thanks guys for the input.

Some of the industries I have planned include a couple paper mills and a printing press, so I be been trying find out what kinds of commodities those facilities would use and what cars they would be transported in.

vonhammer_87
June 29th, 2012, 10:06 AM
Double post

JCitron
June 29th, 2012, 10:52 PM
Thanks guys for the input.

Some of the industries I have planned include a couple paper mills and a printing press, so I be been trying find out what kinds of commodities those facilities would use and what cars they would be transported in.

For the paper mills, you would need wood pulp going in and paper going out, of course. You'll also need clay slurry and chemicals to whiten the paper in particular for bond-type paper. Newsprint isn't quite as white as the bond paper, so the bleach wouldn't be needed, but the clay would be to give the paper a smooth surface.

For the printing company, you'll need a siding for boxcars. The rolls of paper are carried in the boxcars and are hauled out by a forklift. The rolls are huge, by the way. I saw this once on a press run a very long time ago. At the time, the paper was being delivered by truck, but the old siding was still in the back albeit all rusty with weeds coming out of it.

The printing company may or may not accept ink and cleaning materials via rail as well. The cleaners, such as press-wash, are petrol based and are really volatile. They also use lots of glue if they're are also a book binder. In those days, they used animal or cellulose glue. Today they use rubber cement. The printer may also accept in string in large quantities as well to stitch the books together on the binding machine. This could come in as spools loaded on boxcars.

For delivery of finished goods, look for old-fashioned 1920s - 1940s' style delivery trucks. They look similar to the older UPS trucks we see around. I was thinking that even in the early to mid-1940s, companies were still driving older vehicles because of the war times and the earlier Great Depression when no one purchased any new vehicles.

Hope this helps. I worked in the printing and graphics industry for about 5 years directly, then later for an equipment manufacturer.

John

Dap
June 29th, 2012, 11:58 PM
Coal and gravel would probably have been in metal frame hoppers with wood planks for the sides and bottoms. Just did some research on this for a 1914 era route. Some gons were still in use, but most granular bulk commodities such as sand, coal, ore, etc was hauled in hoppers. USRA developed lots of freight car standard designs that saw a lot of use in your era. Any of these designs would be appropriate for your route. Earlier in the 1900's, sometimes boxcars were used for shipping coal.

Grain was shipped in boxcars. A "grain door" was fabricated from lumber and attached to the inside of the door opening. This would not go all the way to the roof, but would leave a space of about 18" - 24" for loading the grain and for employee egress. The 8" - 12" flex pipe would direct the grain from the grain elevator. There would be a man in the car, moving the pipe as needed to direct the grain into the corners and to provide an even and level load. Unloading would be done with gravity, a grain shovel and lots of manual labor. Had a chance to watch this time and again at the local grain elevator back in the 1950's.

Will you be making the cars you need?

David

vonhammer_87
June 30th, 2012, 07:36 AM
John thanks for that input, very helpful indeed. A couple questions though for the wood pulp and the clay slurry I am correct to assume that these would be delivered in tank cars?

And from the sounds of it I theyll at least two sidings?

@dap- thanks for those details. I do not plan on making my rolling stock as I have zero skills with blender or 3DS. Just was going to look for them on the dls. How are your skills coming in modeling rolling stock?

Dap
June 30th, 2012, 08:43 AM
My only skills with rolling stock is to reskin and tweak the config files. Still have yet to take the time to master Blender or Gmax. How is progress on the MAQF&I? Got the track plan finalized yet?

David

JCitron
June 30th, 2012, 10:13 AM
John thanks for that input, very helpful indeed. A couple questions though for the wood pulp and the clay slurry I am correct to assume that these would be delivered in tank cars?

And from the sounds of it I theyll at least two sidings?

@dap- thanks for those details. I do not plan on making my rolling stock as I have zero skills with blender or 3DS. Just was going to look for them on the dls. How are your skills coming in modeling rolling stock?

The woodpulp comes in gondolas and the clay slurry is in tanks. Kaolin clay is the type used for paper making this is hauled in tank cars.

John

vonhammer_87
July 9th, 2012, 09:39 AM
My only skills with rolling stock is to reskin and tweak the config files. Still have yet to take the time to master Blender or Gmax. How is progress on the MAQF&I? Got the track plan finalized yet?

David

I see, well I may ask you do some reskinning for me, at least as far as putting my rr logo on the cars. I have the mainline about 70% complete, although theres going to be a lot of deleting of the extra base boards. The problem I'm having is where to place tunnels, since the route is very hilly, and right now has some pretty steep grades (right now i think the rulling grade is like 11% :eek:)


The woodpulp comes in gondolas and the clay slurry is in tanks. Kaolin clay is the type used for paper making this is hauled in tank cars.

John

I see and thanks again John for your input. How many tracks would one expect to find at a paper mill? I'm thinking at least 4 - one for the wood pulp, one for the clay slurry, and one for the ink and other chemicals, and of course one for out bound shipments.

mjolnir
July 9th, 2012, 11:29 AM
One thing I've not seen noted in this thread is the variability in railroad freight cars in the time period specified by the OP. While 40 foot boxcars may have been the bulk of the fleet, there were doubtless 36 foot cars still around, and there was not yet the standardization of height of the cars that exists in the present day, as can be seen in the images at http://michigansteamtrain.com/sri/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/wabash-box-cars.jpg and at http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ore_RPx_txs/0.jpg. Similarly, gondolas would typically have had different heights, too, from 36 to 60 inches high. You might want to visit, and take note of the collections at the Steam Railroading institute in Owosso, MI. Similar but different collections are to be found at the IL Railway Museum Northwest of Chicago, and at The Mid Continent Railway Museum in Baraboo, WI.

If you're modeling a short line, you might want to reconsider the tunnels, too. Shortlines, at least most of them, have historically been very strapped for cash, and would have been unlikely to bore a tunnel, as this is a very expensive proposition. Confronted with a hill which resulted in an 11 percent grade, they would have instead have routed around it, or dug a cut across the summit to reduce the height.

ns

vonhammer_87
July 9th, 2012, 12:21 PM
If you're modeling a short line, you might want to reconsider the tunnels, too. Shortlines, at least most of them, have historically been very strapped for cash, and would have been unlikely to bore a tunnel, as this is a very expensive proposition. Confronted with a hill which resulted in an 11 percent grade, they would have instead have routed around it, or dug a cut across the summit to reduce the height.

ns

Yes the MAF&I is a freelanced shortline. I see, thats what ive mostly been doing was just cutting through or going around. I'm thinking that 1-3% grade would be the best choice.

thanks for the info on the rolling stock

mjolnir
July 10th, 2012, 02:09 AM
I don't have enough information about your MAF&I to be able to say that you have to keep grades below 3 percent. In the Trains forum, http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/171899/1886936.aspx a reply notes that the ruling grade on Saluda Pass was 4.7 percent, Lookout Pass on the old NP was 4 percent, and that Raton Pass is 3.5 in one direction, and 3.3 in the opposite. There would also be a relationship between the grades, the power you choose to use, and the train length. I remember reading that some logging railroads had much steeper grades--15 percent sticks in my mind, though I don't know that that is correct--but these were using geared locomotives, and hauling empties upgrade, and loads down. And I remember places where the cars were pulled up, and lowered down much steeper grades by a winch and cable. On the other hand, the KCS had an industrial spur in Kansas City, MO on May Street, part of which is still visible on Google Maps, though the line appears no longer to be used, for which the KCS purchased #900, (http://www.gearedsteam.com/shay/images_k.htm) at 160 tons, the largest Shay ever built, to handle cars on 4 percent industrial trackage.

ns

vonhammer_87
July 10th, 2012, 08:31 AM
I see, well I'm hoping to keep it between 3-4 percent then. Main motive power will be a few 2-8-0s for mainline service maybe a Connie. I have created an info packet for the MAFI.