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nbrettoner
May 8th, 2012, 07:17 PM
Hi,

After over two years of various attempts to install both TS2010 & TS2012, I am still no closer to solving a major problem.
The specs on my PC & another Trainz enthusiast is for all intents identical. Seeseeme's machine quite happily has handled several install/re-installations of both versions above, & both run very well with hardly any delay during any loading processes.

I have done several re-installations of both the above, yet once installed, they refuse to run normally.
For example; from the main window TS2012 can take up to five minutes or more before the rectangle 'select' boxes appear. Then if I click on say the 'routes' one, it takes longer (sometimes up to ten minutes) before the actual route list appears. Actually getting as far as loading a route takes even longer, or not at all as Trainz 'hangs'.

Craig & I have confirmed all OS & Trainz settings are the same between us, & that our graphics card settings are identical. My graphics card is of the same brand & age, but mine's the larger size. They even use the same drivers.
Yes we have the same drivers throughout.

During my several installation attempts,& attempts to get Trainz to run properly, I've even resorted to setting Trainz screen resolution etc to minimal, unplugged all other hard drives, & made sure that I've 'killed' all background activity.
Installing either TS2010 or TS 2012 on the C: drive (where my Windows 7 Pro lives) makes no difference to installing it on any other hard drive/partition.

What I need is some kind soul who has experience with the above problem, to help me set up & interpret log files etc, so as to finally nail this problem.
A major project has now been on 'hold' for over two years because of the above.

If you have any input, or can assist or point me to someone who can, please do so.
Your assistance in any way in solving this major problem is greatly treasured.

Scottbe8
May 8th, 2012, 09:13 PM
Have you been installing it as administrator? Right-click on the setup.exe file and select "Run as administrator". Respond in the affirmative to the User Account Control dialog if one appears.

seeseeme
May 8th, 2012, 09:16 PM
Have you been installing it as administrator? Right-click on the setup.exe file and select "Run as administrator". Respond in the affirmative to the User Account Control dialog if one appears.
Been through all that.

Craig
:):):)

nbrettoner
May 8th, 2012, 09:27 PM
Have you been installing it as administrator? Right-click on the setup.exe file and select "Run as administrator". Respond in the affirmative to the User Account Control dialog if one appears.

Hi Scottbe8,

Thanks for your response & yes as Craig says "been there done that" (several times). :D

The programs appear to have installed correctly in most cases, & the last time patched ok as well.
It's not the installation that appears at fault, but the actual running of Trainz TS2010/TS2012 on my machine (which as I said is almost exactly identical to Craig's; who has no worries at all).
TS2004 is fine but I need to upgrade our project into TS2010, & this is the major frustration for over the past two years.
i.e. Getting TS2010/TS2012 to actually RUN correctly on my PC.:'(:(

Scottbe8
May 8th, 2012, 11:10 PM
So I can assume, then, that the programs in TS12/bin have all been set to run as administrator? Trainz and its components need full write permissions in order to run.

Euphod
May 8th, 2012, 11:34 PM
Have you checked to see if you have any malware installed? A friend of mine has used his task manager to find that multiple instances of svchost.exe have been running concurently and using 95% of his CPU. He edits videos and burns DVDs and it was killing his performance. His solution was to just reinstall the OS, which I believe is Windows 7.

nbrettoner
May 8th, 2012, 11:47 PM
So I can assume, then, that the programs in TS12/bin have all been set to run as administrator? Trainz and its components need full write permissions in order to run.

Hi Scotte8,

Yes indeed. All done.
Craig's settings & "run-as-administrator" settings are identical. It has been suggested that some kind of conflict with Trainz 2010/2012 is occurring with something else. Bear in mind that TRS2004 runs quite happily as always.

I ask that anyone reading this post please note from my initial entry the work & results thus far, & what the problem is.
Scotte8 this is a general comment to everyone (nothing wrong with your suggestions at all:)). Just something I felt needed to be said.:)
All comments are thankfully received & most welcome.

Euphod
May 9th, 2012, 12:02 AM
Well I have read all of your posts regarding the issue, and it is curious that 2004 (which does not have CM) runs well, while the other versions do not. This would seem to suggest an issue with your OpenGL installation. I understand you are using nearly identical GPUs and drivers, but since the introduction of 2006 users have had problems with CM crippling the game. Failing Malware or a virus as I posted above, I think this would be a likely culprit.
I assume you have run the TrainzDiag, and found nothing flagged?

seeseeme
May 9th, 2012, 12:17 AM
The only difference between Noel's computer and mine is that he has a Pinnacle Card (for Video Editing etc) attached to the Motherboard and from memory is slightly old, from his previous computer.

Would this make any difference ?

Craig
:):):)

Euphod
May 9th, 2012, 12:39 AM
I just took a quick tour through search returns for Pinnacle cards, and there were enough references to OpenGL and driver incompatibility that it may be so. I assume the drivers are Nvidia, and they seem to have a history of varying levels of support for OpenGL.

nbrettoner
May 9th, 2012, 01:41 AM
Well I have read all of your posts regarding the issue, and it is curious that 2004 (which does not have CM) runs well, while the other versions do not. This would seem to suggest an issue with your OpenGL installation. I understand you are using nearly identical GPUs and drivers, but since the introduction of 2006 users have had problems with CM crippling the game. Failing Malware or a virus as I posted above, I think this would be a likely culprit.
I assume you have run the TrainzDiag, and found nothing flagged?

Hi Euphod,

'Welcome aboard!' as they say. :)
It's only in the past few months that I've reinstalled the Pinnacle video capture card, & since then the extremely slow-running TS2010 hasn't changed.
However I'll remove the card together with all drives except C: & the hard drive the TS2010 partition lives on, & see if it makes any difference.

Craig has less hard drives than I, a smaller (but same model-run) NVidia Graphics card, & doesn't have a video capture card.
But everything else is basically identical. My video graphics card although larger uses exactly the same drivers as Craig's.

Previously I had removed/disconnected all hard drives except the C: drive, & tried installing to the 'default'; ie C: drive. Same extremely slow running problem. And that was before I'd reinstalled my Pinnacle card.
Craig & I have carefully gone through both our Windows 7 Pro & Trains & Graphics card settings, & have confirmed no apparent differences.

Euphod do you have any experience in setting up Windows 7/Trainz log files, & reading the results??.

Please excuse my ignorance (probably born out of the fact that I've not been able to get TS2010 to run properly since I bought it over 2 years ago), but what is "CM"?? :o

I really do appreciate everyone helping me with this. Every little bit (& bigger bits) helps. :):wave:

shaneturner12
May 9th, 2012, 01:48 AM
This may be an odd thing to ask, but what graphics card is in use? You do not mention this in your original post.

The reason I ask is because if it's an integrated (Intel) card, that will make things a lot harder to fix, if not impossible.

Shane

seeseeme
May 9th, 2012, 01:55 AM
Shane,

Noel has a Gigabyte GTX 460 Card, mine is a Gigabyte GTX260 (or was, now upgraded).

Craig
:):):)

I just found his other details;

ASUS P7P55D-E-PRO MB

Intel CORE i5 760 2.8HGz CPU

Corsair CMX4GX3M2A1600C8 4GB (2x XMS3 2GB) PC-12800 (1600MHz) XMS KIT, DDR3 For MB i7 / i5 Core dual channel DDR3 processors

Gigabyte GF GTX 460 PCI-E 2.0 1GB DDR5 256-bit, 715/3600MHz, 2x Dual-Link DVI, 1x mini HDMI, Fan

shaneturner12
May 9th, 2012, 01:58 AM
Hi Craig,

Is it OK if I request full system specifications from both yourself and the OP?

I may be able to work out what's going on.

Shane

nbrettoner
May 9th, 2012, 02:50 AM
Hi guys,

OK it's time for "all that stuff" :)

http://thumb12.webshots.net/t/88/171/4/2/8/2293402080036553532bQPvBa_th.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/578780862qxgzbr)

The above should be a link to my WebShots Trainz folder. Inside you will see three error messages (taken some time ago).
These probably are no longer that important, as they are not 'coming up' now.
Have a look side-by-side with Craig & my "Control-alt-delete" results, & my PC specs.

Please emal me for the DxDiag file (too long to go here).

Euphod
May 9th, 2012, 03:40 AM
Shane is probably a better resource for logs and errors and such, but as for CM: Content Manager. CM requires a robust OpenGL installation, which makes me question why those versions that have CM are causing you the grief.

shaneturner12
May 9th, 2012, 03:46 AM
With relation to RenderSystem errors, this is nearly always caused by either incorrect settings in the Trainz Options box (usually the case after certain types of Trainz crash), or drivers that are not up to date.

Shane

NickieFoenshauge
May 9th, 2012, 04:45 AM
When I read the OP I couldn't help wondering whether it is a disk access problem. Did you try running C:\Windows\System32\resmon.exe to see if some process - an indexer or maybe Anti-virus - is hogging your HDD? I notice you have the SearchIndexer.exe running. This can be a real HDD hog. I've disabled indexing of my C drive for the same reason. It took sometimes ages to load anything Trainz.

nbrettoner
May 9th, 2012, 05:27 AM
Have you checked to see if you have any malware installed? A friend of mine has used his task manager to find that multiple instances of svchost.exe have been running concurently and using 95% of his CPU. He edits videos and burns DVDs and it was killing his performance. His solution was to just reinstall the OS, which I believe is Windows 7.

Hi Euphod,

Could I zip a folder of screengrabs etc & email to you please?.

Could I do a windows 7 repair instead?.
Nearly all my programs are on the same C: drive as W7 Pro.

In fact I think I have 'sort of' already done this, as I had a drive crash a few months ago & had to reinstall pretty much everything.
I do run several progs frequently; hunting down nasties. I don't find many, even with a deep scan over all HDs.

CM seems to run fairly well, if that helps?. (Even if the rest of TS2010 is pretty much dog slow).
But because TS2010 hardly runs, I tend to not touch CM anyway.

I'll run an all-night full scan again. One scan takes around 14 hours, but some other progs take less time.
I start by running CC Cleaner (internet browsers/programs/registry), then move on to various other antimalware cleaners etc.

I've added both Tad.Daemon & Trainz exe files to my windows firewall & antimalware programs.
Also I use Game Booster, & keep drivers & software versions pretty much 'current' versions wherever possible.
Oh & defrag all drives as & when needed.

Nearly all installed programs I go into their 'Properties' & set up to run as administrator.
Also whenever installing same, I right-click the install file & run (install) as administrator.

If you'd rather I didn't email you the screenies (only around 5 1/2 Mb), I'll add them to that WebShots folder accessed via this thread on Trainz.:)

Thanks Euphod for helping me with this. I'd given up for more than a year, & only the last couple of months started attempting once more to get it/them running.

I have managed to install TS 2010 onto my Lenovo Thinkpad E520 (recent acquisition) laptop. It runs ok, but struggles. It might go better 'soon', as I have an extra 4Gb ram each
for the laptop & the PC. They both currently run with 4Gb.

Incidentally, FSX runs fine on the PC, & it uses the same game engine I believe, as Trainz?.

nbrettoner
May 9th, 2012, 05:36 AM
When I read the OP I couldn't help wondering whether it is a disk access problem. Did you try running C:\Windows\System32\resmon.exe to see if some process - an indexer or maybe Anti-virus - is hogging your HDD? I notice you have the SearchIndexer.exe running. This can be a real HDD hog. I've disabled indexing of my C drive for the same reason. It took sometimes ages to load anything Trainz.

Hi Nickie,

Now I'm getting excited again!. :)
Can you guide me please as to how/where to disable C: drive indexing please??. :)

Similarly to my message to Euphod, may I have your email address & send you those screenies too?. There's several screenies of the Resource Monitor, without Trainz running. Later I'll try & get screenies of same when TS2012 is running.
Just PM/email me if so.

Nickie many thanks for your valued assistance. :)

nbrettoner
May 9th, 2012, 05:47 AM
With relation to RenderSystem errors, this is nearly always caused by either incorrect settings in the Trainz Options box (usually the case after certain types of Trainz crash), or drivers that are not up to date.

Shane

Hi Shane,

Those 3 error messages in my online folder at Webshots were taken quite awhile ago, & as they are at present not reappearing, I might try & concentrate on the slow dog problem, unless you advise that this too may be part of the problem?.

Shane may I email you the screenies as well please?. Just PM/email if so.
And thank you for your valued input in solving my woes. :)

seeseeme
May 9th, 2012, 05:57 AM
Hi Shane,

Here are my details and Noels as at the time of purchase. Noel has added more Hard Drives and the Pinnacle card while I have just recently updated my Graphics Card (just because I received some extra money) but everything on my original system worked fine. At one stage I had 2004, 2009, and 2010 on my computer and all ran fine.

Noel's Computer

ASUS P7P55D-E-PRO MB
Intel CORE i5 760 2.8HGz CPU
Corsair CMX4GX3M2A1600C8 4GB (2x XMS3 2GB) PC-12800 (1600MHz) XMS KIT, DDR3 For MB i7 / i5 Core dual channel DDR3 processors
Gigabyte GF GTX 460 PCI-E 2.0 1GB DDR5 256-bit, 715/3600MHz, 2x Dual-Link DVI, 1x mini HDMI, Fan
Seagate 1TB 3.5" SATA HDD (ST31000528AS)
Seagate 500G 3.5" CUDA7200.11,7200RPM,16MB,SATAII 1.5Gb/s,NCQ (ST3500418AS)
ICute SATA II HDD Mobile Rack (Cradle)
BenQ G2420HD 24.0" Widescreen LCD Monitor
Antec Nine Hundred Two Tower Gaming Case w/ Side Window Black, NO PSU, 9 Drive Bays
Antec 850W TruePower Quattro ATX & EPS 12V Power Supply
Microsoft WINDOWS 7 PROFESSIONAL 64 OEM 1PK DVD VERSION:64-BIT

Craig's Computer

ASUS P7P55D-E-PRO MB
Intel BX80605I5750 CORE i5 750/ 2.66GHz/ 8MB CACHE/ LGA1156
Corsair CMX4GX3M2A1600C8 4GB (2x XMS3 2GB) PC-12800 (1600MHz) XMS KIT, DDR3 For MB i7 / i5 Core dual channel DDR3 processors
Gigabyte Geforce GTX 260+ (216SP) Overclocked PCI-E 2.0 896MB GDDR3 448-bit, 650/ 2000MHz
Western Digital 320GB 7200rpm Serial ATA-II-300 HDD w. 16MB Cache (WD3200AAKS) Caviar SE16 / Caviar Blue
Western Digital 500GB/CAVIAR BLACK/7200RPM/SATA 3GB/s /32MB CACHE/3.5 (WD5001AALS)
ASUS DRW-24B1LT 24xDVD-RW,12xDVD+-RW,40xCDRW,SATA,NER08,SM,LIGHT SCRIBE
Antec Nine Hundred Two Tower Gaming Case w/ Side Window Black, NO PSU, 9 Drive Bays
Antec 1000W TruePower Quattro ATX & EPS 12V Power Supply
Microsoft WINDOWS 7 PRO 64BIT ENG DVD OEM 1PK

Hope this can help Noel out, it's frustrated both of us for some time. If any further Technical information is needed just ask.

Craig
:):):)

NickieFoenshauge
May 9th, 2012, 06:09 AM
Can you guide me please as to how/where to disable C: drive indexing please??. :)
Hi Noel,
just right-click the C drive in My Computer and untick "Index content..." (or some such - my version is Danish) under the "General" tab.

PM is on its way ;)

-Nickie

clam1952
May 9th, 2012, 06:39 AM
Performance thoughts?

Are the AHCI drivers installed for the hard drives? as the Windows default ones are just an IDE workround so you don't get the full advantage of having SATA drives. Usually you can get them from the motherboard manufacturer if they are not on the driver disk. if you have anything more than one standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller which is for any ide optical devices or ide drives, showing in device manager or nothing that indicates SATA or AHCI then that isn't likely to be helping. AHCI may also need enabling in the Bios on some motherboards. The Windows performance assessment which IMO is rubbish doesn't pick up any difference by the way, disk benchmarking software however does!
Unganged or ganged memory option in the bios? if it's ganged then change to unganged which is supposedly better for gaming, default is normally unganged.
Memory actually running at the correct speed?, bios default on my Asus board was a lower speed than it should have been.

I'd also be inclined to check any power saving settings are not turning anything off or reducing it's speed.

Video capture? I had to remove a WinTV card from my Win7 Trainz PC as it refused to work after running Trainz, suspect a driver conflict, works fine in an XP machine with 2010 on it though.

Motherboard - are you both on the same bios version / update?

Shouldn't be any problems with a GTX460 unless it's faulty, I have one here.

Clancy2012
May 13th, 2012, 04:05 PM
Hi.

I am relatively new to Trainz, but am a pc geek! Getting the most of your system, to benefit the game, will be an arduous process for you when selecting.exe files to suspend or disable. There is a comparable solution for you. Google "Game Booster" download beta version 3.5. Once it is installed, let it auto configure, adapt all it's recommendations, and only use it when you want to use Trainz. It will shut down all un -necessary software, and will run Trainz at the optimum level for your pc. It will work on any pc, any windows version. Let me know how you get on, and if you get stuck, pm me, I have been using it's various versions myself for over 2 years, and know it inside out.
Clancy