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Dermmy
January 24th, 2012, 06:57 AM
Bit of a bump for the brew crew to have a think about road traffic and it's implementation. I have traditionally run Trainz with traffic toggled 'off' because the default traffic is - well - ordinary.

With the recent advent of some very nice traffic from HP_Trainz and Arraial I have been having a re-think.

The traffic itself is beautiful, and the background movement certainly enhances the realism - or does it?

The 'overtaking' is frankly ridiculous. Even in Melbourne on a wet Friday evening there is not that much bad behaviour.

And this sort of thing...

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa187/Dermmy/temp/shunt.jpg

...is no better.

Surely things can be improved....

Andy ;)

Gary_Evans
January 24th, 2012, 08:31 AM
I agree, Andy. I recently downloaded traffic from Arraial but then discovered that the assets are Trackside which means we either place them on a track (accident waiting to happen) or place them on invisible track where they can be out of harms way. However they do not move unless we put an engine in them. Traffic leaves a lot to be desired in Trainz and like you I run with it off.

davesnow
January 24th, 2012, 12:20 PM
Surely things can be improved....

Andy ;)

I'm praying that N3V is working on this.

Dave

Euphod
January 24th, 2012, 06:34 PM
The 'overtaking' is frankly ridiculous. Even in Melbourne on a wet Friday evening there is not that much bad behaviour.


I'm sure a Master such as yourself can figure out how to best use the assets. I'm thinking of static cars in the right lane , perhaps behind a bus or some other situation that would cause a full stop, then maybe an invisible track in the left lane for a short interval to simulate movement. Just an idea.

Retro00064
January 24th, 2012, 06:44 PM
My question is:

Why is it necessary for cars for road traffic to have a "trackside" tag when previously it was not needed?

Gary_Evans
January 24th, 2012, 07:31 PM
My question is:

Why is it necessary for cars for road traffic to have a "trackside" tag when previously it was not needed?


I hope somebody can give us an intelligent and correct answer to this query.

arraial
January 24th, 2012, 10:23 PM
Hi People in relation to the issue of cars stooping and overlap ones to each others is strange because is rare to happen at lest whit this road built-in trs2012 Road 2L Highway, i clone then and make it high density traffic with slow speed movement, i guess ,.. and this is what i think for a little testes (and i can be wrong) i do with that road, when a road is high speed in a cross track stop they happen this overlap more frequently, tries to change the road when near 200m at the crossing to a very low speed traffic.
I make all this cars whit the default high of this road so, like you already know you can add a tag position z value for correct all this cars, also if some of you thinking the horn sounds and the bip bip horn cars is to much , please go to the sound container and in the horn sound double the value of the< repeat - delay>.


My question is:

Why is it necessary for cars for road traffic to have a "trackside" tag when previously it was not needed?

In relation to the question of retro i dont understand if they refer to the Track-side Kind asset or if they refer to the tag in the conf.txt the Track-side 0.01 if is this tag they refer , i can say i copy this conf. from Dinorius redundicus Tuck tuck car side-track and i really dont know for what use are.
arraial

some images to show in a slow road the cars dont overlap at least whit many frequency, but the error or bad issue inside the Auran programing routines, exist for sure because this happen.
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/99ea5e25bde42501aca8e76aa9d1472e.jpg

http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/d12b02fde9248d0c1b033eb661855458.jpg

http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/57420efaff70fe0bfacd6cebcb81c0a3.jpg

Retro00064
January 24th, 2012, 10:30 PM
@arraial: Wow! The lights on those cars are awesome. If those are on the DLS, then I am going to have to get my hands on those cars for sure. :udrool:

And my question is about the need for the "trackside 0.01" tag in the config.txt file of car assets for road traffic.

Regards,

Zachary.

arraial
January 24th, 2012, 10:40 PM
Retro yes all makes part of the world traffic region mix and all the 35 cars are on dls, off course the lights only on at night,... like i say before the tag is there because i copy all conf. of Dinorius and i really dont know for what is for, so... sorry for that and stay fine.:wave:
arraial

Dermmy
January 24th, 2012, 11:23 PM
...i clone then and make it high density traffic with slow speed movement...

Good thought! The screenshot I posted of the five cars piled into each other was taken on the Yarnish freway and I know that road is fast. I might edit it down a bit in speed and see if that helps...

Andy ;)

jalleballe
January 25th, 2012, 03:21 AM
hello h. how can you have 35 cars on a road? i was trying that.
but when i go into the game i only get 10 cars on my roads
config says:
car0
car1
car2
car3
car4
car5
car6
car7
car8
car9
or
car23
car24
car25
in my kuid table i can have over 40cars, but it will never display more than 10cars in my regionfile. Where do i tweak to get more of my cars on my roads and into the reion file?? if i tweak my config in notepad with 40cars and save the file everything is okay until i start up trainz.
when i open the config again afterwards there are only 10 cars on my region file in ccp and 40 in kuid table??

arraial
January 25th, 2012, 04:39 AM
Hi Jallebale this is your error see....
config says:
car0
car1
car2
car3
car4
car5
car6
car7
car8
car9
or <<<<<<<<
car23
car24
car25

when they try's to read the car10 they find or so all the cars after that they dont read anymore.
they should be like that.....if the sequence is broken they do not read nothing next to this broken point.

car0
car1
car2
car3
car4
car5
car6
car7
car8
car9
car10
car11
car12
car13
car14
car15
car16
car17
car18
car19
car20
car21
car22
car23
car24
car25

see my conf.txt

kuid <kuid:524343:6669>
username "World Traffic Region Mix UK-AU-NZ-ZA"
kind "region"
watercolor 70,135,140
ontheright 0
defaultjunction 0
longitude 2,20,0
latitude 48,48,0
altitude 0
description "World Traffic Region Mix UK-AU-NZ-ZA
"
trainz-build 2.9
category-region "00"
category-era "1800s;1810s;1820s;1830s;1840s;1850s;1860s;1870s;18 80s;1890s;1900s;1910s;1920s;1930s;1940s;1950s;1960 s;1970s;1980s;1990s;2000s;2010s"
car0 <kuid2:68213:29150:1>
car1 <kuid:524343:6633>
car2 <kuid:524343:6612>
car3 <kuid:524343:6613>
car4 <kuid:524343:6614>
car5 <kuid:524343:6615>
car6 <kuid:524343:6616>
car7 <kuid:524343:6617>
car8 <kuid:524343:6618>
car9 <kuid:524343:6619>
car10 <kuid:524343:6620>
car11 <kuid:524343:6621>
car12 <kuid:524343:6622>
car13 <kuid:524343:6623>
car14 <kuid:524343:6625>
car15 <kuid:524343:6626>
car16 <kuid:524343:6627>
car17 <kuid:524343:6628>
car18 <kuid:524343:6629>
car19 <kuid:524343:6668>
car20 <kuid:524343:6631>
car21 <kuid:524343:6632>
car22 <kuid:524343:6634>
car23 <kuid:524343:6635>
car24 <kuid:524343:6636>
car25 <kuid:524343:6637>
car26 <kuid:524343:6638>
car27 <kuid:524343:6639>
car28 <kuid:524343:6640>
car29 <kuid:524343:6641>
car30 <kuid:524343:6642>
car31 <kuid:524343:6643>
car32 <kuid:524343:6644>
car33 <kuid:524343:6645>
car34 <kuid:524343:6646>
car35 <kuid:524343:6647>
category-class "ZX"

thumbnails
{
0
{
image "scsh2.jpg"
width 240
height 180
}
}

kuid-table
{
car0 <kuid2:68213:29150:1>
car1 <kuid:524343:6633>
car2 <kuid:524343:6612>
car3 <kuid:524343:6613>
car4 <kuid:524343:6614>
car5 <kuid:524343:6615>
car6 <kuid:524343:6616>
car7 <kuid:524343:6617>
car8 <kuid:524343:6618>
car9 <kuid:524343:6619>
car10 <kuid:524343:6620>
car11 <kuid:524343:6621>
car12 <kuid:524343:6622>
car13 <kuid:524343:6623>
car14 <kuid:524343:6625>
car15 <kuid:524343:6626>
car16 <kuid:524343:6627>
car17 <kuid:524343:6628>
car18 <kuid:524343:6629>
car19 <kuid:524343:6668>
car20 <kuid:524343:6631>
car21 <kuid:524343:6632>
car22 <kuid:524343:6634>
car23 <kuid:524343:6635>
car24 <kuid:524343:6636>
car25 <kuid:524343:6637>
car26 <kuid:524343:6638>
car27 <kuid:524343:6639>
car28 <kuid:524343:6640>
car29 <kuid:524343:6641>
car30 <kuid:524343:6642>
car31 <kuid:524343:6643>
car32 <kuid:524343:6644>
car33 <kuid:524343:6645>
car34 <kuid:524343:6646>
car35 <kuid:524343:6647>
}

backyard
January 25th, 2012, 05:11 AM
:cool: Is this what a bounding box is for?

I mean like the method of preventing railcars from overriding each other.

arraial
January 25th, 2012, 06:38 AM
Hi Backyard, how can be implemented a bonding box in a track side object kind here? in the mesh itself? I never study this tags for system collisions detections the use-parent-bounds 1 apllay to all mesh a surrounding box collision detection? or we need to make a box surrounding the model for the collision limits? Some support clarified this situation going to be much appreciated and thanks Backyard for mention that.:)
arraial

backyard
January 25th, 2012, 08:38 AM
:o I don't have a clue since I am a route builder, no time for 3d Content Generation...:(

Hang out, some one else may help...us...:eek:

It seams odd to me that vehicles are not created the same as traincars since after all they use (invisible) track, signals and turnouts.:D

arraial
January 25th, 2012, 09:14 AM
Hi thanks Backyard, i try to make a research of that matter using trainz Wiki with the tags search use-parent-bouns1,test-collisions 1,collision-parent 1, and trainz collision system detection, cage box etc etc and nothing found of relevant, also i make a search in the manual trs2006 V2 and nothing explain more then 1 line of text saying what is it, no tutorials examples etc, so the only way i know to make a collision detection of a train kind car is the att. points a.limfront and a.limback and off course this dont work in a static mesh track-side kind model so i have very little information to implement that on the cars for now.
If some one or the Auran support personal can point me to a tutorial example or in Wiky this going to be very appreciated.
arraial

Dinorius_Redundicus
January 25th, 2012, 09:51 AM
Regarding the trackside 0.01 tag in config.txt. I think they did this to resolve an issue of cars floating at different heights above the roads. Whatever the reason, it meant that hundreds of cars that had previously been designed for road traffic could not be used any more.

arraial
January 25th, 2012, 10:38 AM
Thanks Deane for the explanations, this dont seems to bothered all the cars i upload and all work fine. So this maybe was the default position of a origin z high above the road all the cars must show up in any road, but wee always can change that in this tag or whit a tag position 0.0.z value of the cars itself.
I make some tests whit roads with a cross track for catching the problem off the overlap cars and i conclude wee are very wrong about a error in the programed routines of the traffic car of Auran, in the reality they are very realistic because if wee use a road whit a medium or high speed around 20 or 40 value up (i think this maybe miles per hour) the cars when are near to the other cars or near the cross track they starts to slow down at 20 meters of distance only, and in the reality if you drive a normal car at 50 or 60 km per hour and starts to break whit a space of 20 or 30 meters you crash for sure. so the only solution i found is using the same road of high speed clone that and change the values below converting him in a very slow road starting at lest 100 meters from the cross track signals.
And the results are very good ones, the cars start to be very disciplinary and reserves always some meters one of each others when stops.No crashes.
I also think they are speed triggers to put to the roads in the dls for change the speed and this is very much easier to implement.

kuid <kuid:524343:101407>
username "Road 2L Highway"
kind "track"
istrack 0
isroad 1
carrate 3 --- time in seconds for generate cars
traffic-speed 5 --- speed in mph i think for a very low spead
trainz-build 2.9
category-class "SR"
category-region "AU"

Gary_Evans
January 25th, 2012, 11:15 AM
in my kuid table i can have over 40cars, but it will never display more than 10cars in my regionfile. Where do i tweak to get more of my cars on my roads and into the reion file?? if i tweak my config in notepad with 40cars and save the file everything is okay until i start up trainz.
when i open the config again afterwards there are only 10 cars on my region file in ccp and 40 in kuid table?? http://forums.auran.com/trainz/images/newforum/buttons/quote.gif (http://forums.auran.com/trainz/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=935909)

Probably a really stupid question, but where is this config you are referring to?

bnsf50
January 25th, 2012, 12:08 PM
The traffic speed5 would be 5 meters per second which equals 11.1847 miles per hour, or 18 kilometers per hour.:wave:

Gary_Evans
January 25th, 2012, 12:29 PM
Please excuse my senility and ignorance but what do I have to install/do/activate to get these 35 cars to first appear on a road and second to move along at 11.1847 miles per hour?

Dermmy
January 25th, 2012, 04:01 PM
Assuming you have downloaded arraial's new region:

Surveyor > Main Menu > Edit Route > Scroll through the 'Region' text-box till you find 'World Traffic' (or whatever). Save. (Just a note - if you are looking at that screenshot of mine and thinking 'Ooh - nice traffic' it is a custom region with a mix of aaraial's and HP_Trainz traffic.)

To change the speed you have to open the road for edit and change the value of the traffic-speed tag.

On the speed thing I have tried as low as 20 (about 40mph) but still get a succession of tail-enders at grade crossings.

Quick rule of thumb on the speed: As bnsf50 states it is expressed in meters per second, but by a happy co-incidence that works out to approximately half the speed in mph, so a value of 20 is near enough 40 mph...

Andy :)

arraial
January 25th, 2012, 04:54 PM
Thanks bnsf60 for the enlightening of the tag traffic-speed value and unity's in use on then, Dermmy i really recomend a value around 5 to 10 maximum to avoid this crash´s situations and a approx road low spead to the crossing whit 100 m at 200 meters long.
arraial

Gary_Evans
January 25th, 2012, 05:50 PM
Thank you, Andy. Now I can put some traffic on my otherwise deserted roads.
G

Dermmy
February 2nd, 2012, 11:55 PM
Another traffic issue that just came to light - for me, anyway:

My new route is being built in TS10. I have the traffic pretty much stopping where it should at ATLS/NCR crossings. Over 90% of cars stop before the crossing barrier with very few 'over-runs'.

Move the same route, same session, same region, same traffic into TS12 and EVERY crossing has the first car sitting with the crossing gate boom through the driver's window.

Anybody know if there is an editable parameter involved????

Andy

Davie_UCF
February 3rd, 2012, 12:48 AM
Another traffic issue that just came to light - for me, anyway:

My new route is being built in TS10. I have the traffic pretty much stopping where it should at ATLS/NCR crossings. Over 90% of cars stop before the crossing barrier with very few 'over-runs'.

Move the same route, same session, same region, same traffic into TS12 and EVERY crossing has the first car sitting with the crossing gate boom through the driver's window.

Anybody know if there is an editable parameter involved????

Andy

I don't know if this will help, as I only just started using the ATLS crossings, and in TS12. But I found this happened when I aligned the traffic stopper with the track as you'd think it should be. So I just moved the traffic stopper further away from the track, closer to the gates/barriers. Means I have to have two stopper sometimes though, or I move the barriers closer to the track.

Dermmy
February 3rd, 2012, 05:38 AM
Could do - already do in fact for wide multi-track crossings, but if I set the stoppers up so that TS12 is better then the traffic in 10 will stop miles too soon. I assume some part of the hard-wiring has been tweaked, but surely something as basic as this should be the same in all versions...

Andy