PDA

View Full Version : The good old days



PerRock
July 26th, 2011, 05:33 PM
Where have all the good old days in Trainz gone? I remember back when folks helped each other out in their creations. Just about anything was considered a "good" screenshot. People joked, people laughed, it was a fun place to hang out with a fun community and a fun game.

However these days it seems that most people are here to accuse people of doing things (namely stealing), make a dime off from anything, poke fun at the new guys, chew people out, and argue over which simulator is better.

What happened? I used to enjoy coming over here to talk with people, have a few laughs and enjoy Trainz. Now a days I spend very little time in the community, I breeze in look at some screenshots (maybe post a few) and leave.

peter

SD45T-2
July 26th, 2011, 05:49 PM
Well, I really don't know. I think I really need to stop posting for a long time.

Kris94
July 26th, 2011, 05:52 PM
Yeah I wish those days were to come back but it doesn't look like it will happen.

martinvk
July 26th, 2011, 06:16 PM
to borrow a turn of phrase, "... these are the good old days ..." I think it is just selective memory and the fog of time that renders the past so rosy.

True, Trainz was new and it seemed that someone was discovering new capabilities every other day. There were no old timers, everyone was in for the first time so naturally the tone of the messages was lighter.

Plus, and this is not a slight at the younger generation, many of the early adopters were old model railroaders who came from a world were there was no instant gratification. Scratch building anything took weeks if not months of hard work.

So perhaps they were good old days but someday these too will be good old days and people will be reminiscing about how much more fun the forum was back in 2011. :hehe:

Thai1On
July 26th, 2011, 07:07 PM
As a newbie here I find this forum to be VERY helpful and friendly. There are many occasions when I needed help the members came to my rescue.

Another point is the creator of a passenger terminal kindly updated his work to match how the station looked back it's operational days. He only asked for pictures and a few tweaks to make this stunning place.

Lastly I have received kind words and good advise on a few of the screen shots I have posted. So compared to other forums I'm on this one is hands down the most enjoyable :Y:

Euphod
July 26th, 2011, 07:22 PM
to borrow a turn of phrase, "... these are the good old days ..." I think it is just selective memory and the fog of time that renders the past so rosy.

Spot on Martin! Age tends to encourage nostalgia, a desire to relive those times when everything was new and exciting, and the curtain of fantasy hadn't been swept away to reveal the world and all it's darkness.:(

Zorronov
July 26th, 2011, 07:26 PM
I see your point, Peter, and in many respects I agree.


many of the early adopters were old model railroaders who came from a world were there was no instant gratification--martinvk

Yes...instant gratification is here to stay I think...pity. I intend to keep chipping away at my nearly 5 year project. Model railroaders know it's not about the finishing...it's about the doing...the journey, if you will. :)

Cheers,
Fred

P.S.
Age tends to encourage nostalgia--Euphod

Arthritis too...:D

johnwhelan
July 26th, 2011, 08:22 PM
There are still a few people helping each other out. Unfortunately there always seems to be some new dusty corner of Trainz that needs attention. Currently I think its shadows and TS12's optimistic requirements on poly counts for shadows.

I think I agree there seems to be a more commercial angle these days. Could just be the recession I'm not so sure.

In many ways we've come a long way, there is a much wider range of content these days, the DLS clean up is continuing, saves heaven only knows how much of my time cleaning up config.txt errors, Pev has created a wide range of tools. Perhaps we are just maturing and growing older and the forum has settled down in some ways so the questions are more repetitive?

Cheerio John

Eaglefan9727
July 26th, 2011, 09:46 PM
While I am a newbie to the Trainz community. I am not a newbie to train sims as I have been part of the MSTS community for 4 + years. I can say that a couple people have been very helpful to me in the Trainz community. I wont mention their names as they know who they are. Ive also had a couple people get pissed at me for asking them politely about asking "What route is it" via PM messages as I was interested in getting the name of the route and trying it out. Ive even had a couple people claim that I was a "Gimmie pig", But I am far from being one of those type of people. Do I hope to create a route for Trainz at some point like I did with MSTS? I hope so at some point, But right now I just cant be certain. I know two things for certain is that the route would be a fantasy route like the Rattlesnake Desert route was for MSTS and I wont be starting a route until I get Trainz 12 which will be late this year.

rjhowie
July 26th, 2011, 10:53 PM
It's the same with youth and then time moves on and you get used to life. I can think back to places and clubs I went to as a boy and they seemed exciting and big and years later the halls were smaller in reality! Each time I took a youth organisation to summer camp the first visit to the new destination would be fresh, new and great but over a number of years gets routine as you have in the expression of the recent Pepsi ad - seen it been it done it.

There are people here who will knee-jerk at the least wee assumed slight or go into a speed limit breaking, swift curve from annoyed to belligerent. Others will be more pragmatic and see a wider picture wondering what that is all about. And others again do help either directly on the Forums or in PM's/emails.

What does this say? Well it says that we are a reflection of the life outside! The one thing that happens to bind us is our liking for Trainz even when we have moans and grumphs.

JimDep
July 27th, 2011, 02:26 AM
Where have all the good old days in Trainz gone? I remember back when folks helped each other out in their creations. Just about anything was considered a "good" screenshot. People joked, people laughed, it was a fun place to hang out with a fun community and a fun game.

However these days it seems that most people are here to accuse people of doing things (namely stealing), make a dime off from anything, poke fun at the new guys, chew people out, and argue over which simulator is better.

What happened? I used to enjoy coming over here to talk with people, have a few laughs and enjoy Trainz. Now a days I spend very little time in the community, I breeze in look at some screenshots (maybe post a few) and leave.

peter

I agree with you Peter. If this current forum was like this in 2004 I doubt I would have gotten involved. Maybe it's just a reflection in general of how people were better off a few years ago and it carries over into the forum. It could also be a trickle down effect of the changes Auran has gone through. It's kinda hard to put a finger on what the causes may be but I certainly am aware of the difference.

Dinorius_Redundicus
July 27th, 2011, 05:45 AM
I agree.

Another measure of how the forum has changed is how many people you have on your "ignore" list. When I started out, I ignored nobody, but these days I have about 10. That's sad to admit, but it does make for a less stressful forum experience.

@ JimDep - Jim, please check your PM's, I have a request.

~ D

backyard
July 27th, 2011, 10:06 AM
:cool: I thought about the "ignore" list, but people find their place & if they act right I'll pay attention.

It is the same on every forum. There is a ton of negativity on the web & people tend toward bad behaviour if given enough time.

Use the "New Posts" button. If you grab the icon on the Explorer bar & put it on Quick Launch or you Desktop, Links, Favorites, Start Menu, it will make a shortcut that will open the New Posts page automatically. Quickly, browse each title to the topic...

If you recognize a subject, click the title...you may learn something.

If you don't recognize the subject yet, I leave it to your discretion...if you don't have a clue, pass, until you see the title for several visits.

If it's negative, some one's mad and their leaving, some personal complaint, the end of the world, the end of Trainz, a non technical issue, etc, avoid it like the Black Plague!:hehe:

You'll learn to scan quick, and that leaves more time for other adventures. After several visits, if a particular topic catches you eye, by all means, check it out.

It never pays to get mad at anyone, let alone someone you don't even really know. Most of the problems people have on the Web are with young people that are maybe slightly immature. Or maybe not so young people that are totally immature....pecking around in someone else's business.

I am not perfect, but neither is anyone else...I give them whatever chance I have to give.

If it's not your dog, don't chase it no matter how much it barks!

ex-railwayman
July 27th, 2011, 03:53 PM
Ignore list, I never bothered with it, I just ignore EVERYBODY.......:hehe::p

I would be honest and say that the modern generation seems to have acquired this 'gimmee, gimmee' attitude, we never used to have that back in the days of 2004, and it's not all kids with this inconsiderate frame of mind, neither. There seems to be less patience, more aggresiveness and selfishness than ever before in all our real lives which, unfortunately, is reflected somewhat on many, many forums these days. A fact of life that we will all have to come to terms with eventually.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

AntonyVW
July 27th, 2011, 04:09 PM
The good old days? Well that must have been before my time then. As far as I am concerned - being a relative newbie and all that - these are the good new times :)
I find the community generally friendly and always helpful. Maybe I missed something on the way? Or was that the point? Lol

JimDep
July 27th, 2011, 04:19 PM
I would be honest and say that the modern generation seems to have acquired this 'gimmee, gimmee' attitude, we never used to have that back in the days of 2004, and it's not all kids with this inconsiderate frame of mind, neither. There seems to be less patience, more aggresiveness and selfishness than ever before in all our real lives which, unfortunately, is reflected somewhat on many, many forums these days. A fact of life that we will all have to come to terms with eventually.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

The "gimmee" attitude never bothered me. I had PM requests in the past and took it as a compliment that others had a shared interest.

The selfishness and aggressiveness of behaviors is another story. That is something that is apparent now that was not as common a few years ago.

ct_krogen
July 27th, 2011, 04:23 PM
i been around from day one of trainz, some where ona disk is a demo copy of
trainz,,, teh very first game..... i seen cry babys from day one,, i want this or i want that,,,,, can we all get a long..

nicknackpaddywack
July 27th, 2011, 07:43 PM
I've been around the community almost 10 years, and I too have noticed a change, although socially we weren't as connected as we are today, what with facebook etc... I just feel that flaming happens more occasionally now, whereas before we would actually use this forum to discuss Trainz and off topic stuff... its now a place for people to moan about how there game isn't working, and won't load because of the 50+ gb of content they have, and somehow its aurans fault that Trainz can't cope with tens of 1000's of different items and half of which you don't know you had....

[/rant]

anyway what i'm saying is, since facebook and all those before I guess people just forgot common courtesy. Seriously if you passed someone in the street who was having a conversation in public, much like we do on forums... about how railworks is better at this and blah blah blah you wouldn't get up in their face would you? you wouldn't call them names? you defiantly wouldn't start shouting at them because of their opinion?

Just my 2pence worth...

NNPW

JCitron
July 27th, 2011, 09:53 PM
While I am a newbie to the Trainz community. I am not a newbie to train sims as I have been part of the MSTS community for 4 + years. I can say that a couple people have been very helpful to me in the Trainz community. I wont mention their names as they know who they are. Ive also had a couple people get pissed at me for asking them politely about asking "What route is it" via PM messages as I was interested in getting the name of the route and trying it out. Ive even had a couple people claim that I was a "Gimmie pig", But I am far from being one of those type of people. Do I hope to create a route for Trainz at some point like I did with MSTS? I hope so at some point, But right now I just cant be certain. I know two things for certain is that the route would be a fantasy route like the Rattlesnake Desert route was for MSTS and I wont be starting a route until I get Trainz 12 which will be late this year.

I've never seen you as a gimme pig, but one who has asked some great questions. Like how do you go about building a route! That was one of the biggest questions that people ask all the time, but you got the creative juices going and suggestions from lots of "old timers" here.

Also remember the old saying. The only question that is a dumb question is on that's not asked. Many times, there are several people wanting the answer to the same question, and if you ask, then everyone benefits.

Now there is no need to not start working on a route TS2010 while holding out for TS12. Your route will import fine. I was able to bring my very old route, dating back to 2004 into TS12. It was started in early 2004 with TRS2004 before the first SP came out. It has gone through a few variations, but there are still original sections in there even in the latest version.

Anyway, my few pennies in here. The forums have changed since the early days. Perhaps it's because we no longer have people like John Banks, Greg, and Lance poking their noses in like in the early days. Yes, we know they've headed on to bigger projects at other companies, and Auran/N3V has matured. These guys would poke in and add to the frey, and help us out too when we'd go off track and start waffling. Other times too they would waffle along with us, and give us some input on the direction of the company. When companies go beyond this development stage however, this is when they change, and sadly so did Auran. This big change happened just about the time of the Fury failure that nearly cost us the company. During these times a lot of people left, were laid off, or were let go due to the financial changes that took place. The other big change in the forum feelngs happened in 2006 with the big forum crash. After that, nothing was quite the same. It was like someone had taken the steam out of the community.

The other thing too is there is a new group of noobs. These people, fall into two categories. Those that are the gimme-pigs and instant gratification seekers. This is a new generation of kids that feel that they can get everything for free off the net, and everything has to work right off. Unfortunately for them, Trainz is not like that. For others, such as myself, this is like a giant model railroad, as someone else here said. There's that level of creativity, and tinkering, creative thinking, and planning that goes into making things happen.

And then there are those that come here to whine and stirr up the works. Many of these noobs are young, and I've seen the same crowd in other forums as well. These guys have no real point of being there, other than acting like idiots, and getting everyone's knicker in a knot. They feel that they can hide behind the IP address with an anonymous name, and not be called on the carpet. To them being banned from a forum is an honor, and not a mark of shame.

The thing is, the core group, which I hopefully will stay here for some time, can absorb those that want to learn and ask all the questions they want, and kick the others out for being rude. By welcoming in those that show the initiative to move on and mature, this new generation can help keep the community growing and moving forward.

John

Vern
July 27th, 2011, 10:09 PM
Excellent summation John.

Trainz has never been my "majority" sim but I do use it and take an interest in what is happening around it including occasional contributions to this forum.

Second what you say about Greg Lane and John Banks etc. It felt as though we were personally involved with the project and there is a definite feeling these days it is all just a business. I guess it was back then, too, but Greg was never afraid to share his vision even if the aspirations far exceeded the achievable.

Then there's memorable characters like Barney aka the "SFC" (sinister fat controller) who was bereft when his post count accumulated enough to lose his Krokodil avatar for the yellow and red bonbon. His wisdom on these boards is sorely missed and I do hope that he is still keeping well. Or Bruce "3801" Kennewell, who gave us the phrase - "Auran, a place where dreams come true".

However rest assured it's not just here things have changed, it's exactly the same on other boards that I frequent. There does seem to be less of a community spirit and more "gimmie", more "take". Guess it's just a sign of the times as the cellphone-texting/Farcebook/Tweetering/Happy slapping generation comes of age.

Eaglefan9727
July 27th, 2011, 10:10 PM
I've never seen you as a gimme pig, but one who has asked some great questions. Like how do you go about building a route! That was one of the biggest questions that people ask all the time, but you got the creative juices going and suggestions from lots of "old timers" here.

John - Well, I can clearly tell that route building is completely diffrent from MSTS to Trainz with the little fooling around that I have done in the RE (Surveryor). While I havent had Trainz for 2 weeks as of yet. I am very curious about building some kind of fantasy route at some point. Right now, I am just downloading a number of routes and enjoying them. While some of them are great and some of them that are not that great. Atleast, Those route builders brought something to the community which a number of people have never done. As for me when it comes to routes. If I start a route and am not satisfied with the route itself. The release will not happen until I feel that I am satisfied with the route itself. Thats just how I am.

sniper297
July 27th, 2011, 11:12 PM
The internet is a natural magnet for weenies, they quickly run out of people in their home towns that will pay any attention to them, and after the internet was invented they found a whole new bunch of people to annoy. The other problem is clash of cultures, you're going to meet a lot of people who were not raised the way you were or with the same values and standards of behavior, so if you're easily offended you really should stay off the internet. WWW stands for World Wide Web, it's a big world with many different types of people in it. Including Australians, who are so weird they don't seem to mind living upside down on the bottom of the world. ;)

People also come and go, and quite frankly I find most of these "this forum is going to the dogs" threads to be much ado about nothing.

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=62576

Turns out that one was talking about a single incident, many are like that;

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?203108-A-sorry-state-of-affairs...

"A sickening trend" which turned out to be an isolated problem with one individual that wasn't even on that forum, oh no, trainsim.com is DOOMED! :'( Somehow we managed to survive another seven years despite someone posting a new "this forum is getting worse every day" thread every couple of months, and that one wasn't the first.

Apollo43
July 28th, 2011, 10:47 AM
The internet is a natural magnet for weenies, they quickly run out of people in their home towns that will pay any attention to them, and after the internet was invented they found a whole new bunch of people to annoy. The other problem is clash of cultures, you're going to meet a lot of people who were not raised the way you were or with the same values and standards of behavior, so if you're easily offended you really should stay off the internet. WWW stands for World Wide Web, it's a big world with many different types of people in it. Including Australians, who are so weird they don't seem to mind living upside down on the bottom of the world. ;)

People also come and go, and quite frankly I find most of these "this forum is going to the dogs" threads to be much ado about nothing.

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=62576

Turns out that one was talking about a single incident, many are like that;

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?203108-A-sorry-state-of-affairs...

"A sickening trend" which turned out to be an isolated problem with one individual that wasn't even on that forum, oh no, trainsim.com is DOOMED! :'( Somehow we managed to survive another seven years despite someone posting a new "this forum is getting worse every day" thread every couple of months, and that one wasn't the first.

Excellent points sniper. Another thing to consider is the nature of this type of message board is predominantly for those that are needing help, seeking advice, and often stuck trying to figure out some problem. In many of these cases the poster is at the point of frustration and may or may not have been trying to resolve their issue for hours or days. So they come to the board in a somwewhat heated attitude. I'm not saying that's right but it is human nature.

Though it does occur, it is less often that people come here to express delight and satisfaction with something about the progrram because during those times they are having too much enjoyment to stop and post the pleasantries. I think that's part of human nature too.

I've worked in a technical support role before and the only calls you get are from unsatisfied customers. You rarely if ever get the calls saying hey, your product is great. This board, in the nature of it's support role, is much like that. And you are right on sniper when you point out that we should not let ourself be offended easily here and we shouldn't take any of it personally. I never take anything personally on any message board because, with a few exceptions, I don't personally know anyone on the message board and they don't know me. So they nor I have enough data on each other to make any offensive comments about each other that could be meaningful.

I may post about issues that I believe should be addressed but I usually point out that this is indeed a great program and I don't think anyone can ever take that away from it.

backyard
July 28th, 2011, 11:51 AM
:cool: Back in TRS2004 dayz, there were so many people that would start a project, everyone would get excited & post encouragement & then the content creator would loose interest....

The moderators came up with a rule than unless you were an "accomplished content creator" to not post a new project until it was done, penalty being removal of the thread & possible disciplinary action!

It is quite natural for anyone to ask for an asset to be made, but replying with a snide attitude that they 'should do it themselves,' or not be a 'gimmie-pig' does not do any good, because it is a recurring topic with about 30% of new users.

These posts are the one's to avoid if you feel your blood pressure rising. Back then gmax was a primary source of mesh creation, but today mentioning gmax signals Blender users to come out in force...:hehe: or starts an argument about 3dsMax...:sleep:

And by the way, I have realized that the name "Auran" is a legacy reference...it is now NV3 Games Proprietary Limited (http://www.n3vgames.com/) all the way or not at all. Trainz is a significant party because of the faithful following, but just a part of the big picture...however that is good, because there is a heavyweight backing the program. Key persons from the past are still present, if only in the background that are here for us.

I think the greatest advantage we have is that running a train is a slow process of learning & HSR not withstanding, many people would loose interest & go away if no one paid attention to their petty argumentative attitude..."you can't fix stupid!"

Laddie
July 28th, 2011, 02:34 PM
Where have all the good old days in Trainz gone? I remember back when folks helped each other out in their creations. Just about anything was considered a "good" screenshot. People joked, people laughed, it was a fun place to hang out with a fun community and a fun game.

However these days it seems that most people are here to accuse people of doing things (namely stealing), make a dime off from anything, poke fun at the new guys, chew people out, and argue over which simulator is better.

What happened? I used to enjoy coming over here to talk with people, have a few laughs and enjoy Trainz. Now a days I spend very little time in the community, I breeze in look at some screenshots (maybe post a few) and leave.

peter

Thats exactly what I asked a while ago.
I used trainz 2004 for 2-3 years, got TRS06 and was very let down by it.
I had a year off, accessed the forum to find that everything had changed and now its barely used.

It's kinda scary how poor the forum is nowadays compared to the good old black TRS2004 forum.

Also, i dont think that doing anything with trainz takes an age now compared to anything else helps. It takes less time to format my computer and reinstall everything than it does to reinstall trainz and in some cases just the TRS2010:EE SP1

amtrakfoamer
July 28th, 2011, 03:01 PM
some people might have nothing better to do than complain to other members and be jerks. I hav found that forums are still a great way to get answers and communicate. Ps. Peter i loved your content mostly the Viewliners:)

Euphod
July 28th, 2011, 11:27 PM
No surprise really, but it still amazes me how each person has their own perception of events. It reminds me of the studies done to demonstrate the unreliability of witness testimony to a crime. Personally I see the forum as improving all the time. We all have posted unfortunate things in the past, but usually members mature, improve, or move on. I like to see controversial threads now and again, because it would be quite boring here without the occasional spice thrown in.

Driver_Col
July 29th, 2011, 04:47 AM
Perhaps the whole Trainz culture has changed not only by the ever increasing age range of users (and corresponding range of interests), but also by the ongoing churning out of the "latest and greatest" which has effectively fragmented the Trainzers. I too can remember a different culture around TRS2004 and the closest I can get to that now is the smaller user base of TC3. I recall an excellent job of support and assistance by both the TC3 crew and the users ............. but then it was replaced by another "latest and greatest", and so the cycle will no doubt continue.

Regards to all Trainzers..... whatever version your are using!

Colin.

pfx
July 29th, 2011, 05:35 AM
I'm of the humble opinion that the forum is a sign of the success of Trainz in that is is now a far larger community of users than that of the halcyon days. The 'downside' is that this also means a still larger amount of differing opinions, manners, attitudes, etc. and all the apparent dischord that can on occassions ensue.

I have only been aboard since TS06 but didn't really start posting here until I got TS09 due to various issues I had then. I was wary of posting, being a newbie to the forum, so I ensured that my posts were polite and did my utmost to search for a solution before posting. I found that the experienced members were exceedingly helpful and there was someone with a solution to my problems 99.9% of the time.

I think that even in the short amount of time that has since passed, a great number of new members don't bother to try finding anything out for themselves and make constant demands with rarely a word of thanks but even though, I still know there are a great number of users who will provide an answer. I would like to think I could count myself among them in my limited ability to be able to help.

Some of these 'upstarts' will quickly loose interest and never be seen again, while others will come to realise the best way to get help is by asking in the right way and one day, hopefully, become seasoned and valued members of the community.

I would like to think there are some out there who recognise me as I do them and want you all to know that I am very happy to be a member of the forum (don't quote any of my previous rants here!!!) and genuinely feel the sense of belonging to a community of like minded individuals here.

Dougea
July 29th, 2011, 06:06 AM
[quote=sniper297;836959]WWW stands for World Wide Web, it's a big world with many different types of people in it. Including Australians, who are so weird they don't seem to mind living upside down on the bottom of the world. ;)

G'day sniper, owyagoinmatealright. You do realise that we "downunders" keep the world balanced. if we all moved uptop then the world would tip over and everyone would be living upside down. May your chooks turn into emus and kick your dunny down. Avagoodaymate.

Doug

casey38
July 29th, 2011, 06:33 AM
I remember being here from DAY 1. We were all waiting (without a single notion of what is "patience") for Trainz CE.

Every single day, we spent time on Auran's forum, trying to get some infos of what it'll be.

And, we were all dreaming. Dreaming of doing superb layouts or (in my case) some real routes.

When we received our parcels, we were (1st) really glad and (2nd) somewhere disapointed. But the fun of the adventure remained.

Service Pack 1 arrived and it fixed many minor or even major bugs. So, those were the days !

Now, i beleive that Auran's staff is no longer what it was. Greg, John, Chuck, Bruce aren't here any more.

Things are going fast ! From Trainz CE, we're living now the Trainz 2012 edition ... Wow ! Even Apple computers can run the simulator, and to mention it, some cell phones (i believe) are able to do so !

Signs of the times wich are changing.

We can reheat a souffle (if i spell it right) It was just what it was, unfortunatly, we can't go back in time except if there's one Marty Mc Bride here.

Cheers,

André.

Dep
July 29th, 2011, 10:20 AM
Well I haven't been here since day 1. Good grief!!!!! That would make you as old as Methuselah:D . I'm only 61. I have been here for quite a while though. And I will confess I am guilty of leaving here and Trainz for MSTS more than a couple of times. And also guilty of posting some rather rude posts. I think most of the rude stuff comes from frustration that Trainz doesn't do what people think it's supposed to do or what it's advertised to do. Since recently returning I have made an interesting observation. People posting here can be divided into different groups. You have the newbs. Lots of those guys and I like to help them any way I can. I recently posted about a program called "EndItAll" that automatically shuts down background programs to free up resources on your comp. It's freeware, and while not perfect, does pretty good. May help make Trainz run smoother.

Then there are the "veterans" with thousands of posts and a huge knowledge of the game. Sheesh!!! Thousands of posts boggles the mind. Most of them are very helpful and are patient. A few that are a bit "testy", but I try and give them the respect they are due and have earned.

And finally, there are....well....I can only describe them as "Kool-Aid drinkers", as in the Jim Jones/Guiana variety. They think and act like Trainz is the ultimate incarnation of a railroad sim. They are like religious followers and fanatics. Say one disparaging word or constructive criticism about Trainz and they come out of the woodwork to slap you down and sentence you to hellfire and brimstone for eternity. I mostly find these folks amusing. Although I am glad they aren't my next-door neighbors :D

The "good old days" for me is more concerend with the immense enjoyment I got out of TRS2004 and downloading assets and driving the trains. Unfortunately, that has disappeared for some reason. A simple loop of track in the training session of 2004 stands out in my mind more than anything else. It had industries to be supplied and it was a blast to keep everything working. The closest I have come to that in TS2010 was a session with a very short strip of track where you had to drop off freight cars at certain locations. Sometimes simple can be more fun than ultra-complex. At least, for me. :)
BTW...I never even knew there was an ignore list and I would never make use of it.

xero
July 29th, 2011, 02:44 PM
I remember when I first got started in Trainz back in 2007, it was really nice! Now it sucks that a lot of content developers are gone and there is almost no content available for TRS 2006. I may actually consider quitting this game altogether....

JimDep
July 29th, 2011, 03:46 PM
I remember when I first got started in Trainz back in 2007, it was really nice! Now it sucks that a lot of content developers are gone and there is almost no content available for TRS 2006. I may actually consider quitting this game altogether....


I agree. I've got tons of content of 2006, but nowhere to upload it all since it's not allowed here. If I save my allowance I might host a website but that's not in the near future.

ct_krogen
July 29th, 2011, 04:38 PM
[quote=JimDep;837944]I agree. I've got tons of content of 2006, but nowhere to upload it all since it's not allowed here. If I save my allowance I might host a website but that's not in the near future.

why don't you upload itto trainzpro routes web site

Apollo43
July 29th, 2011, 06:22 PM
I agree. I've got tons of content of 2006, but nowhere to upload it all since it's not allowed here. If I save my allowance I might host a website but that's not in the near future.

In the telecommunications industry, the easiest way to force customers to abandon their existing system to upgrade or purchase the newest systems is to simply stop supporting the older systems. Maybe some of that is going on in a lot of other industries. I see no reason why they don't want 2006 content uploads. Heck, they even have the check marks to search by release type already built into the DLS.

Hey Dep, your comment, "I can only describe them as "Kool-Aid drinkers", that's priceless. LOL! :)

JCitron
July 29th, 2011, 07:12 PM
In the telecommunications industry, the easiest way to force customers to abandon their existing system to upgrade or purchase the newest systems is to simply stop supporting the older systems. Maybe some of that is going on in a lot of other industries. I see no reason why they don't want 2006 content uploads. Heck, they even have the check marks to search by release type already built into the DLS.

Hey Dep, your comment, "I can only describe them as "Kool-Aid drinkers", that's priceless. LOL! :)

This happens in a lot of industries, besides the TELCO. The graphics industry is filled with many forced upgrades. Adobe, for example comes up with new versions that sort of support their older products, and people are forced to go to the new version of whatever to be compatible with everyone else. There are other companies that do the same such as ProEngineer, among others. Their Cad products are a real pain. If a company needs to upgrade, they have to export their data to the new version then import it into the new one. There's no open and save new, or at least there wasn't a few years ago when I used to support the platform.

TRS2006, as good as it was in its day, is no picnic compared to the current versions. TS2010 and TS12 have no where the number of crashes as TRS2006 ever had. These are not perfect applications, but they're a lot better, and show the direction the program is going in. I remember CMP taking a snit way too often, particularly if there were lots of downloads. The program its self would run out of memory and crash right to the desktop even under Vista, which was/is no picnic either.

Anyway dropping the support for the older products, yes is a forced upgrade, but also helped N3V streamline their support operation and make everything else go smoother as a result. Remember. Many of the people that supported TRS2006 are no longer at Auran. They've since been let go, and this makes supporting the applications more difficult because that knowledge base isn't there anymore. Yes, stuff might be written down, but it's the undocumented knowledge that is lost when help is let go. I've seen this firsthand quite a number of times. My old company, a former Polaroid spin-off, went into a downward spiral very similar to Auran's. As people left, it became very difficult supporting the older products because that knowledge bank was no longer there.

By supported what is most current, this gives the limited staff an opportunity to focus on making the current products better, and to come out with future products instead of focusing their limited resources and efforts on older products.

John

JimDep
July 29th, 2011, 07:35 PM
why don't you upload itto trainzpro routes web site


I probably should see if they'd take it. It is kind of a let down for me as I was one of the people that was trying to get all the content to stay at one central location, the DLS, so that users wouldn't have to spend so much time searching for missing KUIDS, which has always been a major complaint.

Right at the time I was beginning to upload to the DLS. After getting everything properly categorized and fine tuned, Auran (N3V) made the announcement about dropping Trainz Classics, 2006 and previous content from the DLS. Even though the deadline was a few months away, it didn't make much sense to upload over 1000 KUIDS just to have them get scrapped in the near future.

Short story long, I need to make a decision on hosting a website or uploading it elsewhere. There's a lot of content that I didn't want to burden one site with, but I also didn't want it spread around, being that it also correlates with a route I've been working on for over 5 years. What was once a fun addiction turned into a disappointing mess. I've had enough snide comments i.e. "get over it" that I find the inspiration less than what it used to be.

JimDep
July 29th, 2011, 07:50 PM
I see no reason why they don't want 2006 content uploads. Heck, they even have the check marks to search by release type already built into the DLS.
! :)

I know. They argue that's it's too expensive for their company to keep it.

JCitron
July 29th, 2011, 07:51 PM
I probably should see if they'd take it. It is kind of a let down for me as I was one of the people that was trying to get all the content to stay at one central location, the DLS, so that users wouldn't have to spend so much time searching for missing KUIDS, which has always been a major complaint.

Right at the time I was beginning to upload to the DLS. After getting everything properly categorized and fine tuned, Auran (N3V) made the announcement about dropping Trainz Classics, 2006 and previous content from the DLS. Even though the deadline was a few months away, it didn't make much sense to upload over 1000 KUIDS just to have them get scrapped in the near future.

Short story long, I need to make a decision on hosting a website or uploading it elsewhere. There's a lot of content that I didn't want to burden once site with, but I also didn't want it spread around, being that it also correlates with a route I've been working on for over 5 years. What was once a fun addiction turned into a disappointing mess. I've had enough snide comments i.e. "get over it" that I find the inspiration less than what it used to be.


Jim,

I'm sure the folks over at TPR would welcome your content. :) They're great guys over there - Ed, Meridous, and others I can't remember offhand because my brains have become flatlined!

Don't let the buggers get you down. They do that to make their own misery bigger than yours. Sadly in some ways, people can be like birds, dogs and cats. I own all three types and I see that happen all the time amongst the species!

John

JimDep
July 29th, 2011, 07:54 PM
[quote=J By supported what is most current, this gives the limited staff an opportunity to focus on making the current products better, and to come out with future products instead of focusing their limited resources and efforts on older products.

John[/quote]

In this case John, all we were asking them to do was keep it accessible and allow for uploads at the customers risk.

We weren't asking for quality control or anything that would take time away from their newer projects.

JimDep
July 29th, 2011, 07:56 PM
Jim,

I'm sure the folks over at TPR would welcome your content. :) They're great guys over there - Ed, Meridous, and others I can't remember offhand because my brains have become flatlined!

Don't let the buggers get you down. They do that to make their own misery bigger than yours. Sadly in some ways, people can be like birds, dogs and cats. I own all three types and I see that happen all the time amongst the species!

John

thanks John, I agree. I think if you substitute dogs with tortoises, that they'll get along better. Dogs and tortoises are a bad mix.

JCitron
July 29th, 2011, 08:04 PM
In this case John, all we were asking them to do was keep it accessible and allow for uploads at the customers risk.

We weren't asking for quality control or anything that would take time away from their newer projects.

I agree, so I won't open an old wound here for either of us. If I recall, which is hard lately, I even mentioned that in one of the many announcements that came out at the time. Keep the legacy section, but don't support it.

Sadly we don't have a say in corporate decisions regarding things like this.

There may have been other reasons such as the increased error checking, which caused so many headaches for a lot of people initially. The support staff were probably afraid that noobs would include broken content again into the mix, and cause a whole new batch of DLS bad-content problems.

Who knows!

John

JimDep
July 29th, 2011, 08:28 PM
The support staff were probably afraid that noobs would include broken content again into the mix, and cause a whole new batch of DLS bad-content problems.

Who knows!

John

And those noobs would have gotten plenty of support from the helpful community members. The forums have been the Custom Service department. For Auran to not have provided support made no difference anyway. For them to state that they could no longer offer support for pre 2009 content was a bogus reason. They didn't before much anyway :), referring to the forums, but It was never an issue because of the strength of the community. That strength of course has taken a few too many hits in the last couple years.

Anyway John, I'm long past crossing the line for beating the dead horse. I hope you have a nice weekend and survive the heat and that wonderful salt air humidity that I miss. (I really do miss the salt air)

Dep
July 29th, 2011, 08:42 PM
What I find fascinating is that even though Auran/N3V has yanked support for the earlier versions of Trainz, if you look in the forums for those early versions, they are STILL very active. So while Auran's intent may have been to discourage users from using those early versions and encourage-or-force people to upgrade, their plan doesn't seem to be working very well. :)

Dep

martinvk
July 29th, 2011, 09:28 PM
... So while Auran's intent may have been to discourage users from using those early versions and encourage-or-force people to upgrade, their plan doesn't seem to be working very well. :)

Dep At the risk of continuing the flogging and straying off topic, I think there is a difference in officially stopping support and user activity. As I see it, the lack of support just means that if conditions change (new OS, i.e Windows 7, or new graphics cards are used) there will not be any official fixes in case of problems. Considering the age of the code, this is only normal.

Now if your local setup doesn't change or cause new issues to appear, there is nothing to stop you from continuing to play and enjoy the older versions.They will not magically stop working or uninstall themselves. I know you can no longer trade objects via the DLS but that is Auran's call. There are still other places where this can be done. I still use several programs created ages ago. No support, official or otherwise but I still enjoy them.

Now back to the good old days. How many games are there that have kept people's interest for so long? I think that says a lot about both the game and the players.

JimDep
July 29th, 2011, 09:34 PM
What I find fascinating is that even though Auran/N3V has yanked support for the earlier versions of Trainz, if you look in the forums for those early versions, they are STILL very active. So while Auran's intent may have been to discourage users from using those early versions and encourage-or-force people to upgrade, their plan doesn't seem to be working very well. :)

Dep


I don't think their plan is working well either, cuz. The result has been a divided community and much negativity. I wouldn't think it is worth it.

dh2k3
July 29th, 2011, 10:46 PM
I agree with Peter I too miss the old days and ways especially when we would see posts about the future of Trainz from the CEO, etc.

Zorronov
July 29th, 2011, 11:20 PM
I agree with "all of the above". At the risk of seeming self-absorbed...I started an admittedly audacious and grandiose project over 4 years ago in TRS2006. I'm not about to stop working on it, or releasing related content, because support for TRS2006 has been discontinued. Onward and upward...to infinity and beyond! :)

Cheers,
Fred

Gandalf0444
July 29th, 2011, 11:55 PM
Since my time here at the beginning, I was a lurker way back when I had the original Trainz it was very nice and peaceful.
Then I kind of disappeared for a bit, then I got TRS2006. Started off on the forum like everyone else, a newbie with not much respect, and didn't quite understand everything and made my self seem like an arse.

Now it has become even worse on the forums, it is like walking on egg shells. Everyone is on edge and at each others throats and over stupid stuff as well. Such as TRS2006 VS 09/10/12. There is no reason to call people who use 09/10/12 "morons" etc or vice versa. Or with all the payware drama with X not liking group Y because they supposedly did this when they also did that, half the time I just want to say get over it...IT IS A GAME. But if I did everytime I wanted, I would be chased down by the people from the wood works and beat down and left to rot on the side of the road.

The newbie problem is also becoming worse and worse, here and my website, all they do is DEMAND content, then there and NOW. It is not so much that they are doing it, but it is that there are 40,000 of them doing it and when you tell them politely to stop, and instead ask this way as to be nicer, they scream at you. (I have actually be threatened with physical harm several times :o:confused::eek::hehe:) Simply because I stood up and told them to sit down, shut up and listen for 5 minutes.

Granted as I said I have made myself look like an arse several times throughout the years, but who hasn't? You move on from that and act "normal" but the newbies do not. 90% of them do not change. At all.

Auran's plan seems to have backfired in a sense I agree...the plan to stop support for older versions defiantly put a massive split in the community, which is good and bad. It can separate the men from the boys(almost literally) but leaves a lot of the more unfortunate in the dark. But from a business perspective it does in fact make sense.

Regardless the fact that the community has changed so much just in 2 years is shocking, let alone 6-8 years.

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 12:06 AM
At the risk of continuing the flogging and straying off topic, I think there is a difference in officially stopping support and user activity. As I see it, the lack of support just means that if conditions change (new OS, i.e Windows 7, or new graphics cards are used) there will not be any official fixes in case of problems. Considering the age of the code, this is only normal.

Now if your local setup doesn't change or cause new issues to appear, there is nothing to stop you from continuing to play and enjoy the older versions.They will not magically stop working or uninstall themselves. I know you can no longer trade objects via the DLS but that is Auran's call. There are still other places where this can be done. I still use several programs created ages ago. No support, official or otherwise but I still enjoy them.

Now back to the good old days. How many games are there that have kept people's interest for so long? I think that says a lot about both the game and the players.

Actually, the DLS was part of the deal when people bought TRS2004-06. So just shutting it off is voiding that agreement. People may not sue Auran/N3V, but they will voice their opinion of Trainz via their purchasing power.

Ever stop to think WHY Trainz keeps peoples interest? Could it be that they could go on the DLS and download content for the version they had? Nahhh....couldn't be that. :o

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 12:10 AM
I dunno. No newbs are demanding anything of me. Maybe those with thousands of posts could have their post count number returned to zero or not shown? Or put in your signature line "don't ask me...I don't know nuttin":D

martinvk
July 30th, 2011, 07:44 AM
I dunno. No newbs are demanding anything of me. Maybe those with thousands of posts could have their post count number returned to zero or not shown? Or put in your signature line "don't ask me...I don't know nuttin":DNow there's an idea but a quick count in the DLS will show how many objects have been contributed. What's one more demand or should I say request? :wave:

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 08:19 AM
Now there's an idea but a quick count in the DLS will show how many objects have been contributed. What's one more demand or should I say request? :wave:

LOL...you're right about that! I also suspect that, while they won't admit it, those with thousands of post like to see that number up there. Some kind of "badge of expertise" I suspect. Well ya gotta take the good with the bad. ;)

Euphod
July 30th, 2011, 08:30 AM
And...so what if they do?

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 08:36 AM
The newbie problem is also becoming worse and worse, here and my website, all they do is DEMAND content, then there and NOW. It is not so much that they are doing it, but it is that there are 40,000 of them doing it and when you tell them politely to stop, and instead ask this way as to be nicer, they scream at you. (I have actually be threatened with physical harm several times :o:confused::eek::hehe:) Simply because I stood up and told them to sit down, shut up and listen for 5 minutes.

Granted as I said I have made myself look like an arse several times throughout the years, but who hasn't? You move on from that and act "normal" but the newbies do not. 90% of them do not change. At all.


Regardless the fact that the community has changed so much just in 2 years is shocking, let alone 6-8 years.

You really need to get out more in the real world;) . Did you never hear of the term "gimme society" or "entitlement society". I work with kids a lot as a member of Kiwanis. Our motto is "Serving the children of the world". Well I can tell you right now that the children of the USA are NOT
like they used to be back in the 50s and 60s. This is probably mainly due to lack of parental training. Or maybe the parents are training them, only badly. We give out scholarships in the form of cash donations every year. When we hand those kids a nice-sized lump of money to go to college with, they don't even say thank you. And no thank you card either. Just a hand out grabbing for the check. As in GIMME! Since 2008 I can count on one hand the number of kids who said thank you or sent us a thank you note.

I suspect you are seeing this same situation in Trainz with the newbs you speak of. People no longer have common courtesy. They think society HAS to give them what they demand because they are owed it. And that includes the Trainz society. Other things that have disappeared are the ability to admit you made a mistake or were wrong, and the ability to apologize. You will still find the older generations able to do that. But not with the younger folk. Why do you think it has been so difficult for the politicians to pass a new debt plan? People have made the entitlement programs "untouchable" and those are the major causes of debt. That's just the way it is in the US...probably in the rest of the world too. Look at the rioting in Greece over austerity measures and the uproar among students in the UK when they were told they would have to start paying for some of their education.

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 08:36 AM
And...so what if they do?

What if they do what??????

Euphod
July 30th, 2011, 08:46 AM
So, if you don't have enough posts, then you're a "noob", and there's something wrong with that, and by reading your posts if you have many posts, then you're an old timer with an inflated ego or something to that effect? So, in your opinion; exactly how many posts should a member have that will land him or her in the "cool" sweet spot? 174?
If you're new here, you probably aren't going to have thousands of posts. Everyone is new once. If you've been here awhile and been active on the forums you will naturally have more posts, maybe even in the thousands. I've read startling insights and displays of knowledge and talent from new members, and read incredibly arrogant and stupid posts from oldtimers. New members shouldn't consider themselves as members with nothing to contribute, and not every old timer is full of himself.
I am, but not every one is.
Why are we talking about class warfare based on how many posts are associated with a username?

deeelare
July 30th, 2011, 08:52 AM
snip . . . and read incredibly arrogant and stupid posts from oldtimers.

But I'm trying hard to change !

--- ,dave

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 09:03 AM
So, if you don't have enough posts, then you're a "noob", and there's something wrong with that, and by reading your posts if you have many posts, then you're an old timer with an inflated ego or something to that effect? So, in your opinion; exactly how many posts should a member have that will land him or her in the "cool" sweet spot? 174?
If you're new here, you probably aren't going to have thousands of posts. Everyone is new once. If you've been here awhile and been active on the forums you will naturally have more posts, maybe even in the thousands. I've read startling insights and displays of knowledge and talent from new members, and read incredibly arrogant and stupid posts from oldtimers. New members shouldn't consider themselves as members with nothing to contribute, and not every old timer is full of himself.
I am, but not every one is.
Why are we talking about class warfare based on how many posts are associated with a username?


LOL...sorry, but I have requested that Aurna/N3V, in the interests of maintaining peace and tranquility on the forums, and to provide a "level playing field", that ALL post counts be returned to zero immediately. :D

Really, you gotta lighten up with what we are discussing. I only made a suggestion that "veterans" who were being badgered by newbs with demands for help and assistance might solve that problem by having their post counts dropped to zero. Presto! You are no longer a "veteran". You might even have Auran eliminate all those proof of purchase icons next to your name. That would solve things completely. :)

Really, you are reading way too much into all of this. It's just an option that might be available.

aardvark1
July 30th, 2011, 09:13 AM
You really need to get out more in the real world .

~~~~snip~~~~

Why do you think it has been so difficult for the politicians to pass a new debt plan? People have made the entitlement programs "untouchable" and those are the major causes of debt.
~~~~snip~~~~.

Well now, looks like you have drunk the Tea Bag Cool-Aid.

Two unfunded wars, unfunded reduced tax for the wealthy, unfunded Medicare part D, subsidies to large corporations and oil industry.

Sounds like you have profited on all the above.

With great sadness,

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 09:13 AM
But I'm trying hard to change !

--- ,dave

LOL...relax Dave. You are NOT on my ignore list. I don't even have an ignore list. ;)

Euphod
July 30th, 2011, 09:15 AM
LOL...you're right about that! I also suspect that, while they won't admit it, those with thousands of post like to see that number up there. Some kind of "badge of expertise" I suspect. Well ya gotta take the good with the bad. ;)

So you say. You still haven't answered my question, so what if they do?

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 09:15 AM
Well now, looks like you have drunk the Tea Bag Cool-Aid.

Two unfunded wars, unfunded reduced tax for the wealthy, unfunded Medicare part D, subsidies to large corporations and oil industry.

Sounds like you have profited on all the above.

With great sadness,

Sorry Mr. Soetoro...I still can't seem to find your college transcripts. And I really like how you lead from behind. :D

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 09:16 AM
So you say. You still haven't answered my question, so what if they do?

Ack! What if they do what??????? :'(

Euphod
July 30th, 2011, 09:21 AM
You placed the emphasis in your post by typing like. This is getting tedious, but so what if some members do like "to see that number up there"? How does that affect someone else?

aardvark1
July 30th, 2011, 09:29 AM
Sorry Mr. Soetoro...I still can't seem to find your college transcripts. And I really like how you lead from behind. :D

Wow, your a birther in addition to everything else.

With sadness,

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 09:37 AM
You placed the emphasis in your post by typing like. This is getting tedious, but so what if some members do like "to see that number up there"? How does that affect someone else?

Ahhhh...I understand now. Well IMHO, and this is ONLY my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions;) ....that post count number is rather meaningless. It really just means you are a chatty person with lots of time on your hands. But some folks who go on a forum look at that number and associate it with some kind of "expertise". That's all I'm saying. Personally, if Auran did drop everyone's post count number to zero, or even kept my personal post count number at zero, I couldn't care less. Some forums use a special feature where you can grade a person based on how helpful/informative a post is. That would be a valuable addition to a person's information, rather than just counting how many times someone just posts.
There is also another measure of veteran's status, and that is when the person joined the forum. But that is also pretty useless. Someone could have joined the form on the day it first openned and never posted one helpful or useful post. So the joined date would be useless for judging a person's knowledge of Trainz.

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 09:41 AM
Wow, your a birther in addition to everything else.

With sadness,

With joy at being a proud member of the Tea Party Express. Who do you think forced the Dems to NOT raise taxes and CUT spending? That means you will have more cash in your pocket to spend on Trainz. Now you will be able to afford TS2012 Anniversary Edition :)

JimDep
July 30th, 2011, 04:08 PM
Actually, the DLS was part of the deal when people bought TRS2004-06. So just shutting it off is voiding that agreement. :o

Also part of the deal for 2010 according to the box. I haven't seen the newest version. That word FREE used to mean not having to pay additional fees although I never argued that it was for a good cause. Just like health care, I don't want to be forced into buying...it's so un American.

JimDep
July 30th, 2011, 04:10 PM
With joy at being a proud member of the Tea Party Express. Who do you think forced the Dems to NOT raise taxes and CUT spending? That means you will have more cash in your pocket to spend on Trainz. Now you will be able to afford TS2012 Anniversary Edition :)

Me too Cuz ! I am a proud upstanding radical Hezbollah teaparty member of the Republican Party. At least that's how some on the left see it.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

sniper297
July 30th, 2011, 04:25 PM
Frankly I don't think of social security and medicare as "entitlements", in my opinion they're insurance plans that I was forced to pay premiums into. And as an honorably discharged veteran of the US armed forces I don't think anyone can accuse me of taking more out of the country than I contributed.

SD45T-2
July 30th, 2011, 04:43 PM
Edit-Excess post.

JimDep
July 30th, 2011, 04:48 PM
Frankly I don't think of social security and medicare as "entitlements", in my opinion they're insurance plans that I was forced to pay premiums into. And as an honorably discharged veteran of the US armed forces I don't think anyone can accuse me of taking more out of the country than I contributed.


Hats off to you Sniper :Y: Thank you for your service !

pware
July 30th, 2011, 05:32 PM
From the point of view of an outsider (i.e. a non USA person) this talk of debt, taxes, tea parties (real milk and sugar with mine please - not that "half and half" you Americans drink), Mr. Soetoro (who is he??), Democrats and Republicans, has been fascinating, if OT, but largely incomprehensible. But we here in Oz have similar issues with our inept politicians, proposed Carbon Taxes and their alternatives, disaster levies, etc, etc - but I won't bore you with the details.

Back on OT - I would have no problem with removing the post count altogether, not just resetting it to zero which would only recreate the same perceived problem further down the track (no pun). A high or low count says nothing about a persons expertise. I would not be in favour of removing the icon(s) that show which programs a person has registered - I have used this on a number of occasions to identify a problem with a post (i.e. which version of the program they are using).

<many other issues I started writing about but decided that it had all been said before>

Peter Ware

pware
July 30th, 2011, 05:56 PM
One point I will add is that the support offered by forum members to new (and not so new) users to help them solve issues has always been first class. This is often given under difficult circumstances such as very brief and vague posts (e.g. "It's not working" - end of message), posts that were made in the heat of frustration ("IT'S NOT WORKING - FIX IT NOW!!!!) and posts that are just plain incomprehensible (poor spelling, bad grammar, no typing skills - you all know what they can look like). All too frequently we post the answers and suggestions to their problems but never hear back from the original poster on that issue - although they sometimes pop up again in a new thread.

But it is always gratifying to get a post in a thread like this one

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showpost.php?p=838385&postcount=11

Regardless of the "good old days/bad new days" problems, keep up the good work Trainzers - you are the backbone of the program.

Peter Ware

sniper297
July 30th, 2011, 06:08 PM
I don't think I'd pay any attention to post counts, the internet is so cluttered with self-annointed experts that anyone who pays homage to post count deserves what he gets. Look who the second biggest blabbermouth at trainsim.com is;

http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/memberlist.php?order=desc&sort=posts&pp=30

and 99% of that was silly comments and questions, about 1% had anything to do with expertise of any kind. :hehe:

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 06:12 PM
Frankly I don't think of social security and medicare as "entitlements", in my opinion they're insurance plans that I was forced to pay premiums into. And as an honorably discharged veteran of the US armed forces I don't think anyone can accuse me of taking more out of the country than I contributed.

Agreed that we paid into it and we should get our money back. And it was never meant to be the ONLY source of income for retired Americans. It was supposed to SUPPLEMENT savings accounts. And it IS headed towards going broke as there are more people going to be collecting it than are putting money into it. BTW...because I have a pension from the County Sheriff Dep I used to work for, I only get HALF of the payments I am supposed to receive.
And I also have that HD. US Army 1967-70. ;)

If something isn't done about Social Security, there WON'T BE any Social Security for our kids or even those who are in their 40s right now.

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 06:16 PM
From the point of view of an outsider (i.e. a non USA person) this talk of debt, taxes, tea parties (real milk and sugar with mine please - not that "half and half" you Americans drink), Mr. Soetoro (who is he??), Democrats and Republicans, has been fascinating, if OT, but largely incomprehensible. But we here in Oz have similar issues with our inept politicians, proposed Carbon Taxes and their alternatives, disaster levies, etc, etc - but I won't bore you with the details.

Back on OT - I would have no problem with removing the post count altogether, not just resetting it to zero which would only recreate the same perceived problem further down the track (no pun). A high or low count says nothing about a persons expertise. I would not be in favour of removing the icon(s) that show which programs a person has registered - I have used this on a number of occasions to identify a problem with a post (i.e. which version of the program they are using).

<many other issues I started writing about but decided that it had all been said before>

Peter Ware

Mr. Soetoro is the guy leading from behind in the White House ;)
Agree with you 100% about post counts. And good point about the icons that I hadn't thought of! :Y:

Dep
July 30th, 2011, 06:20 PM
One point I will add is that the support offered by forum members to new (and not so new) users to help them solve issues has always been first class. This is often given under difficult circumstances such as very brief and vague posts (e.g. "It's not working" - end of message), posts that were made in the heat of frustration ("IT'S NOT WORKING - FIX IT NOW!!!!) and posts that are just plain incomprehensible (poor spelling, bad grammar, no typing skills - you all know what they can look like). All too frequently we post the answers and suggestions to their problems but never hear back from the original poster on that issue - although they sometimes pop up again in a new thread.

But it is always gratifying to get a post in a thread like this one

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showpost.php?p=838385&postcount=11

Regardless of the "good old days/bad new days" problems, keep up the good work Trainzers - you are the backbone of the program.

Peter Ware

Awww fewy;;;?.,! yur jush braggin becuz yew got sum fancy ejumicashion. :hehe:

JCitron
July 30th, 2011, 09:58 PM
One point I will add is that the support offered by forum members to new (and not so new) users to help them solve issues has always been first class. This is often given under difficult circumstances such as very brief and vague posts (e.g. "It's not working" - end of message), posts that were made in the heat of frustration ("IT'S NOT WORKING - FIX IT NOW!!!!) and posts that are just plain incomprehensible (poor spelling, bad grammar, no typing skills - you all know what they can look like). All too frequently we post the answers and suggestions to their problems but never hear back from the original poster on that issue - although they sometimes pop up again in a new thread.

But it is always gratifying to get a post in a thread like this one

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showpost.php?p=838385&postcount=11

Regardless of the "good old days/bad new days" problems, keep up the good work Trainzers - you are the backbone of the program.

Peter Ware

This is very much how my life goes in tech support. :hehe:

I've gotten messages on my VM like it's broken, so what's broken? There are a multitude of things running on the computer, so what's going on?

In the past as a hardware tech, I used to get boards back with tags that said "broken" on them. Oh so helpful when trying to pinpoint the problem. I used to run the boards for days in the burn-in room, plug them into my bench and freeze them with canned air, etc. to no avail. Ran every kind of diag on the board, but couldn't find a thing. The customer insisted it was the board. Finally I had them send back the chassis, and the board failed due to a loose ground cable on the inside! Arggh!

So, Yeah, I understand fully what it's like troubleshooting vagueness. It makes the day quite a bit more interesting. I too try my best to help those in need here. Sometimes with great success, and others with not even an acknowledgement if the problem was ever resolved, or not, and not even a thank you for trying, or just a thanks for fixing the problem. I guess that's the life of the internet these days.

John

sniper297
July 30th, 2011, 10:31 PM
Well, one conclusion I came to recently is I'm gonna ignore calls for help from anyone who does not have a registered version showing;

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showpost.php?p=837293&postcount=14

Can you say "warez", boys and girls? Sure, I knew you could! :n:

JimDep
July 30th, 2011, 11:18 PM
And I also have that HD. US Army 1967-70. ;)

I


Thanks for your service too! Say, I'm wondering Cuz, were you a fan of Walter Cronkites? :)

Dep
July 31st, 2011, 01:46 AM
Well, one conclusion I came to recently is I'm gonna ignore calls for help from anyone who does not have a registered version showing;

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showpost.php?p=837293&postcount=14

Can you say "warez", boys and girls? Sure, I knew you could! :n:

Yep...there was a similar post I saw where the guy said he can't play TS12 any more because it says it's a demo copy. He also didn't have the TS12 icon at the top of his post. Oops! :hehe:

Dep
July 31st, 2011, 01:55 AM
Thanks for your service too! Say, I'm wondering Cuz, were you a fan of Walter Cronkites? :)

You're welcome. And no, I am neither a fan of Walter Concrete, nor am I Fonda Jane :n:

JimDep
July 31st, 2011, 02:31 AM
You're welcome. And no, I am neither a fan of Walter Concrete, nor am I Fonda Jane :n:


We're in agreement there too. Hanoi Jane is no mystery, but many don't know the truth about Cronkite and don't understand the damage he caused. Our heroic Vietnam Veterans do.

AJ_Fox
July 31st, 2011, 02:38 AM
Can we let the political comments go please?

ON TOPIC:

I think that the good old days will soon become this time now. Sure, things have changed. New members have come and some longer term members don't seem to be around much anymore, but they do still show up.

There seems to be many new very talented creators here, but some of the "old" ones are still around.

Cheers

AJ

Dep
July 31st, 2011, 08:58 AM
We're in agreement there too. Hanoi Jane is no mystery, but many don't know the truth about Cronkite and don't understand the damage he caused. Our heroic Vietnam Veterans do.

Well said Jim. http://serve.mysmiley.net/happy/happy0034.gif

Driver_Col
July 31st, 2011, 09:08 AM
Can we let the political comments go please?

ON TOPIC:

I think that the good old days will soon become this time now. Sure, things have changed. New members have come and some longer term members don't seem to be around much anymore, but they do still show up.

There seems to be many new very talented creators here, but some of the "old" ones are still around.

Cheers

AJ

Agree with everything! I am just having a problem deciding whether I am an old "new" creator, or a new "old" creator, or maybe an old "old" creator ..... and as for talent ......... my close friends think so (that's how they became so close). And yes..... I just did a quick check and I am still around!

Maybe this will close this thread which appears to have served its original purpose.

:wave:

Colin.

Dep
July 31st, 2011, 09:22 AM
Can we let the political comments go please?

ON TOPIC:

I think that the good old days will soon become this time now. Sure, things have changed. New members have come and some longer term members don't seem to be around much anymore, but they do still show up.

There seems to be many new very talented creators here, but some of the "old" ones are still around.

Cheers

AJ

When you think about it, if you agree with the OP, that's kind of a depressing thought. The OP said..."However these days it seems that most people are here to accuse people of doing things (namely stealing), make a dime off from anything, poke fun at the new guys, chew people out, and argue over which simulator is better."
If this is true, and today will be considered as the the "good old days" of the future, then what we have in store for the future doesn't look very bright. However, I remember folks arguing over which train sim was better even back when TRS2004 was around and new. The arguments of TRS vs MSTS are legendary. Today they have just updated the arguments to TS2012 vs Railworks 2. Heck, if anything, the arguments have gotten mellower, as many folks have both sims. But arguing over which sim is better happens on pretty much every forum where there are competing sims. So I don't expect it to go away here. And I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing, unless the argument gets nasty. I got TS2012AE yesterday and am happy with it, and I expect Railworks 2 to arrive early next week. I'm looking forward to posting a comparison of the two :)
Now if I can just figure out how to get this http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Deputy_photos/th_UTC1-1.jpg up next to the rest of them :hehe:

JCitron
July 31st, 2011, 10:25 AM
When you think about it, if you agree with the OP, that's kind of a depressing thought. The OP said..."However these days it seems that most people are here to accuse people of doing things (namely stealing), make a dime off from anything, poke fun at the new guys, chew people out, and argue over which simulator is better."
If this is true, and today will be considered as the the "good old days" of the future, then what we have in store for the future doesn't look very bright. However, I remember folks arguing over which train sim was better even back when TRS2004 was around and new. The arguments of TRS vs MSTS are legendary. Today they have just updated the arguments to TS2012 vs Railworks 2. Heck, if anything, the arguments have gotten mellower, as many folks have both sims. But arguing over which sim is better happens on pretty much every forum where there are competing sims. So I don't expect it to go away here. And I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing, unless the argument gets nasty. I got TS2012AE yesterday and am happy with it, and I expect Railworks 2 to arrive early next week. I'm looking forward to posting a comparison of the two :)
Now if I can just figure out how to get this http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/Deputy_photos/th_UTC1-1.jpg up next to the rest of them :hehe:

DEP,

Backup your hard drive before you put RW on your system. You don't want your PC to catch on fire or something. Remember you're mixing acid with fire! :hehe:

Very good points brought up here. I was one of the fallovers from MSTS to TRS2004 when the version came out. MSTS would get into a snit on me whenever I tried to do any route editing or install third-party content.

So many new folks think adding content is so difficult with Trainz, let them try that with the old MSTS. The program would crash completely if a dependency was missing. I used to spend more time at the different 3rd party sites looking for bits and pieces to get the routes to work. They guys don't realize how easy this really is!

As you know each of the sims has their advantages and disadvantages, depending upon what people want, and both offer similar things in a different way. I suppose the argument could be carried over in a car forum as well where things could get a bit testy over Fords and Chevys.

John

John

Dep
July 31st, 2011, 10:51 AM
DEP,

Backup your hard drive before you put RW on your system. You don't want your PC to catch on fire or something. Remember you're mixing acid with fire! :hehe:

Very good points brought up here. I was one of the fallovers from MSTS to TRS2004 when the version came out. MSTS would get into a snit on me whenever I tried to do any route editing or install third-party content.

So many new folks think adding content is so difficult with Trainz, let them try that with the old MSTS. The program would crash completely if a dependency was missing. I used to spend more time at the different 3rd party sites looking for bits and pieces to get the routes to work. They guys don't realize how easy this really is!

As you know each of the sims has their advantages and disadvantages, depending upon what people want, and both offer similar things in a different way. I suppose the argument could be carried over in a car forum as well where things could get a bit testy over Fords and Chevys.

John

John


ROFLMAO John!!! Yeah, I'm surprised N3V/Auran hasn't sent me a PM about me goofing with their little graphic too :D
I didn't even consider doing any route making when I had MSTS. It was so complex that it boggles the mind even today. I left that to 3rd party people and just paid for them to do all the work. Some really nice stuff came out for it too. My big gripe with MSTS was the coupler thing. But they eventually fixed that. Couplers and no overhead map display like in Trainz were my biggest complaints. And Railworks 2 seems to have addressed both those problems. No idea yet about route creation in Railworks 2. Do you have it and is it as easy as Trainz to make routes in?

Dep

Robertd81
July 31st, 2011, 10:54 AM
I can only speak from experience, but for the most part I've seen people go out of their way to help out new guys, laugh and joke about common issues, and post some interesting stuff relating to Trainz and trains in general. Content creators are still finding new and wonderful ways to eek the most out of the game, and the availability of good quality content is rising every day.

There is a snowball effect however, I'm sure, and it only takes a few too many negative posts in a short time for people to start to notice the bad rather than the good... which is daft. I'll leave details aside, but when reading through the forums I definately avoid certain types of post where I can, because once a grumble has begun there's not much fun to be gained from reading it, nor much I can do to cheer the author up.

Recently I've seen a few new creators (new to me at least) putting stuff up in DLS without even an eyebrow raised from the forums. Bjornl comes to mind with his great new scandinavian content, there are many others though, and they all get my thanks and respect.

So, perhaps we should focus more on the good, and comment more on the good, and all help to lighten the mood around here.

Peace,
Robertd81.

JimDep
July 31st, 2011, 12:55 PM
When you think about it, if you agree with the OP, that's kind of a depressing thought. The OP said..."However these days it seems that most people are here to accuse people of doing things (namely stealing), make a dime off from anything, poke fun at the new guys, chew people out, and argue over which simulator is better."
If this is true, and today will be considered as the the "good old days" of the future, then what we have in store for the future doesn't look very bright. However, I remember folks arguing over which train sim was better even back when TRS2004 was around and new. The arguments of TRS vs MSTS are legendary. Today they have just updated the arguments to TS2012 vs Railworks 2. Heck, if anything, the arguments have gotten mellower, as many folks have both sims. But arguing over which sim is better happens on pretty much every forum where there are competing sims. So I don't expect it to go away here. And I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing, unless the argument gets nasty.

That's the way I remember it too. With MSTS, I was involved with the North Eastern Railroad project. That was great, but I enjoyed building routes and making content more with Trainz. I enjoyed being a cheerleader for Trainz for a few years stretch. If these current forums are viewed as "classify these as good times" then our standards have grossly diminished.

pware
July 31st, 2011, 04:56 PM
If these current forums are viewed as "classify these as good times" then our standards have grossly diminished.

It is a fact of life that people will always look back and complain that the "standards" were always "better" back in the "good old days". They ignore the many problems that existed back in those "good old days" that do not exist now. They invariably fail to see the many improvements that have occurred because those improvements have now become the new minimum standard they expect.

Human nature, rose coloured glasses and short memories.

Peter Ware

Zorronov
July 31st, 2011, 05:22 PM
I think the "good old days" were back when everyone thought I was a god and agreed with me about everything. Yeah...good times! :D

Cheers,
Fred

P.S. Wait a minute! That must have been in an alternate reality...;)

JCitron
July 31st, 2011, 05:39 PM
ROFLMAO John!!! Yeah, I'm surprised N3V/Auran hasn't sent me a PM about me goofing with their little graphic too :D
I didn't even consider doing any route making when I had MSTS. It was so complex that it boggles the mind even today. I left that to 3rd party people and just paid for them to do all the work. Some really nice stuff came out for it too. My big gripe with MSTS was the coupler thing. But they eventually fixed that. Couplers and no overhead map display like in Trainz were my biggest complaints. And Railworks 2 seems to have addressed both those problems. No idea yet about route creation in Railworks 2. Do you have it and is it as easy as Trainz to make routes in?

Dep

I don't have it yet, but was thinking about it because I am very curious what the big fuss is over the program. Believe me my content creation didn't go very far with MSTS. I attempted to create my own route and spent hours and hours trying to patiently connect track only to get a stinking GPF (Windows error) and have the program quit. The activities were a bit more doable, but the same thing. That too would randomly quit on me as well. That was so difficult to work in I gave up, and I too purchased some nice routes such as those by Andy Hocking. His Maple Leaf Routes, which include a beautiful rendition of the D&H from Colonie to Oswego, NY, and Rich Garber's Canton, East Metro and a few others by him. The ProTrains routes were nice, but devoid of traffic even with a busy session. There were all these tracks all over the place, but nothing on them except for an occasional AI freight. This is something you see in this country, but not in Europe!

Anyway, it'll be interesting I'm sure when RW3 comes out. I'll have to see what people say about it before I jump on to it or not. ;)

I can see Auran/N3V's public relations group getting a bit in a snit over your graphic. :hehe:

John

JimDep
July 31st, 2011, 06:09 PM
It is a fact of life that people will always look back and complain that the "standards" were always "better" back in the "good old days". They ignore the many problems that existed back in those "good old days" that do not exist now. They invariably fail to see the many improvements that have occurred because those improvements have now become the new minimum standard they expect.

Human nature, rose coloured glasses and short memories.

Peter Ware

Really ? Father knows Best vs Glee

My memory is pretty good... long term memory anyway.

pware
July 31st, 2011, 07:05 PM
Father knows Best vs Glee

I presume that that is a culture based reference. if so it escapes me (different culture - different side of the Pacific).


My memory is pretty good... long term memory anyway.

Unfortunately all the scientific evidence says the opposite - our long term memories are not as detailed nor as accurate as we like to think they are. Our long term memories are more likely the result of looking through rose coloured glasses to only see what we think happened instead of what actually happened. Our cultural, personal and other beliefs alter our perceptions of the past. This is the reason why eye witness testimonies are often regarded as unreliable and are often successfully challenged in courts.

sniper297
July 31st, 2011, 07:20 PM
You forgot American Bandstand VS American Idol. :sleep:

Well, first editor I used was to make levels for the original DOOM, and after that made some scenery sets for various flightsim versions, so when I got MSTS I didn't think the route editor was all that difficult or unstable compared to some of the other game editors I had played with before. Best I recall I got MSTS the end of June 2001, uploaded version 1 of the Port Ogden & Northern around the second week in August. Rail Simulator October 2007, took until December or January because altho the route was ready for Prime Time, the Kuju Kids didn't include any way to package a route for upload, had to wait for Mike Simpson to make a utility similar to Route Riter. Got TRS2004 around May 2010, TS2010 about a month later, still don't have my first route ready for upload. The Trainz tracklaying tool really irritates me, if it would just allow me to lay the track instead of trying to help by bending previous sections to what it thinks is the best alignment I wouldn't ever need to use the straighten tool.

Opinions vary, I think most agree the MSTS route editor is the most difficult, but there we separate - most say surveyor is easier than the railworks world editor, I find the total opposite, for me the railworks world editor was faster and easier to learn and the tracklaying tool simply works better.

However. Once you're finished making the route, what next? For the kind of operations I want to do the railworks scenario tools and AI traffic are completely hopeless, what's the point of creating a beautiful route if you can't run trains on it the way you want to? Trainz is ugly and clumsy in many places, but to me the important things that I'm looking for in a train simulator are all present and accounted for, AWOL in the other two.

JimDep
July 31st, 2011, 07:40 PM
I presume that that is a culture based reference. if so it escapes me (different culture - different side of the Pacific).


Good point. I didn't realize you are in Australia.

How about Anita Bryant vs Amy Winehouse

JimDep
July 31st, 2011, 07:48 PM
Unfortunately all the scientific evidence says the opposite - our long term memories are not as detailed nor as accurate as we like to think they are. Our long term memories are more likely the result of looking through rose coloured glasses to only see what we think happened instead of what actually happened. Our cultural, personal and other beliefs alter our perceptions of the past. This is the reason why eye witness testimonies are often regarded as unreliable and are often successfully challenged in courts.

That's an interesting view, however memory accuracy varies from person to person, depending how one interprets certain events they've been exposed to and overall mental health.

In other words, If I say, "old barn door", the picture I have in my head will be different than what you have and can generate a different emotional response. If I say "Amy Winehouse", I will be repulsed, however you may view her as an object of desire... well not now anyway. :eek:

Regarding long term memory, I keep pictures handy to reinforce and validate what my belief system may be. :)

JimDep
July 31st, 2011, 07:49 PM
You forgot American Bandstand VS American Idol. :sleep:




Great Example !! Long live Dick Clark

Zorronov
July 31st, 2011, 08:20 PM
Jim...why do you keep on insisting on inserting your social and political views into your posts. I liked it a lot better when you were working on your route and showing pics of your progress. Not everyone agrees with you...and you're not going to promote your agenda this way.

Cheers,
Fred

sniper297
July 31st, 2011, 08:31 PM
I don't insist on it, I do it because I have a lot of loose screws and I'm not responsible for my actions. I'm so obnoxious I'm on my own ignore list, so I don't even know what I typed a few minutes ago. :hehe: BTW, who's Amy Winehouse?

Zorronov
July 31st, 2011, 09:23 PM
I don't insist on it, I do it because I have a lot of loose screws and I'm not responsible for my actions. I'm so obnoxious I'm on my own ignore list, so I don't even know what I typed a few minutes ago. :hehe: BTW, who's Amy Winehouse?


:D Sorry sniper297...I was talking to JimDep...didn't know your name was Jim too. Luckily for me there aren't too many Freds.

Cheers,
Fred

sniper297
July 31st, 2011, 09:30 PM
I disagree, there are far too many FREDs these days, we need to get rid of them all and bring back the caboose! ;)

JimDep
July 31st, 2011, 09:53 PM
Jim...why do you keep on insisting on inserting your social and political views into your posts. I liked it a lot better when you were working on your route and showing pics of your progress. Not everyone agrees with you...and you're not going to promote your agenda this way.

Cheers,
Fred

Lighten up Fred. Once again, we're just having fun and you think you have to take charge and rain on the parade. What are you talking about? I didn't mention politics, why are you? You've mentioned your lefty views before, I didn't jump in. If I want to compliment our brave soldiers and veterans on the tough job they were asked to do for the good of country, I'm going to do it. That goes for our allies as well.

JimDep
July 31st, 2011, 10:07 PM
BTW, who's Amy Winehouse?

I wish I could tell you Sniper, but we're trying to discourage social commentaries that may be interpreted by some as a political agenda.

Dep
July 31st, 2011, 11:49 PM
BTW, who's Amy Winehouse?

I was gonna ask that question. My wife was handy and she reminded me about her recent departure from the planet. Considering her biggest claim to fame is this song, I guess I didn't miss anything:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mNm-fod2_M

Anyone who thinks that long term memories are faulty doesn't have any contact with their parents or grandparents. Their memories, even with alzheimers, are amazing. They may not remember what they had for breakfast or where they left their shoes when they took them off (I am guilty of both of those and I'm 61), they can certainly go into great detail about what happened in the 40s, 50s and 60s. Why, I remember when Lionel trains were actually made in USA and not imported from China and Korea. :)

sniper297
August 1st, 2011, 12:07 AM
Memories are subjective, and so are impressions, my childhood seems "normal" to me but many people are horrified when I reminisce - apparently stuff like killing rats for the bounty money is not considered a normal part of growing up in most places. As I said so many times on other forums when someone started a "this place is going to the dogs" thread, if one out of 100 people is a jerk, you got 10,000 members you're gonna have 100 jerks. That leaves 9,900 who are NOT jerks, but the jerks draw more attention leaving you with the impression that the whole place is full of jerks unless you stop to actually consider it unemotionally.

AJ_Fox
August 1st, 2011, 01:15 AM
Is this thread at the end of the line as they say? Is it just me, or is it sounding like a personal conversation?

No offense guys but you can have this interesting conversion in a PM.

Cheers :)

AJ

JimDep
August 1st, 2011, 03:00 AM
I was gonna ask that question. My wife was handy and she reminded me about her recent departure from the planet. Considering her biggest claim to fame is this song, I guess I didn't miss anything:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mNm-fod2_M

Anyone who thinks that long term memories are faulty doesn't have any contact with their parents or grandparents. Their memories, even with alzheimers, are amazing. They may not remember what they had for breakfast or where they left their shoes when they took them off (I am guilty of both of those and I'm 61), they can certainly go into great detail about what happened in the 40s, 50s and 60s. Why, I remember when Lionel trains were actually made in USA and not imported from China and Korea. :)

Being that your curiosity triggered a little a more probing, I hope I'm not crossing the line by adding some visual contrast to the conversation and a short personal commentary that does not necessarily reflect the view point of our sponsor.

I don't think you'll regret not knowing about her Cuz, but it's nothing that a lifetime journey in rehab and a good exorcist couldn't cure.

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/33/image1vv.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/image1vv.jpg/)

Interesting enough that Anita Bryant was a poplar singer as well with appeal to all age groups back in the 1950's and 60's. Presentation and standards were different back then with the pop culture. Even without pictures, my long term memory can recall the changes that happened over this period of time. Agree, disagree, like, dislike, it's just a matter of personal taste :) and maybe a llittle funny.

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/5161/anitabryant.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/193/anitabryant.jpg/)

JimDep
August 1st, 2011, 03:03 AM
Is this thread at the end of the line as they say? Is it just me, or is it sounding like a personal conversation?

No offense guys but you can have this interesting conversion in a PM.

Cheers :)

AJ

I agree, AJ. My sincere hope is that we can get through this maintaining a light hearted conversation with a touch of humor not to be taken personally.

JimDep
August 1st, 2011, 03:07 AM
Memories are subjective, and so are impressions, my childhood seems "normal" to me but many people are horrified when I reminisce - apparently stuff like killing rats for the bounty money is not considered a normal part of growing up in most places. As I said so many times on other forums when someone started a "this place is going to the dogs" thread, if one out of 100 people is a jerk, you got 10,000 members you're gonna have 100 jerks. That leaves 9,900 who are NOT jerks, but the jerks draw more attention leaving you with the impression that the whole place is full of jerks unless you stop to actually consider it unemotionally.

That's a good point. It doesn't hurt being reminded that we have an ignore button to use as a safety net if the minority gets too annoying.

martinvk
August 1st, 2011, 06:40 AM
Is this thread at the end of the line as they say? Is it just me, or is it sounding like a personal conversation?

No offense guys but you can have this interesting conversion in a PM.

Cheers :)

AJSame here. Not only has this thread gone off topic it's not even on the rails anymore as it wanders down some dusty memory lane. Going by some of the last images, I'm not even sure we're still on the same planet :hehe:

Goes to show how flexible Trainz is, it can simulate anything. :cool:

Dep
August 1st, 2011, 09:37 AM
Same here. Not only has this thread gone off topic it's not even on the rails anymore as it wanders down some dusty memory lane. Going by some of the last images, I'm not even sure we're still on the same planet :hehe:

Goes to show how flexible Trainz is, it can simulate anything. :cool:

I have to agree, that picture of the deceased looks like she was already deceased to start with. I guess the CDC was right to put up information about zombies on their website. Anyway, steering it back to Trainz, is anyone interested in adding that picture of the anti-rehab girl to the list of Trainz engineers? Or maybe put it on the side of a boxcar with some D.A.R.E. logos. You could run it as a public message train. :)

BTW...seeing that picture reminds me of the Rocky Horror Picture Show. I wonder why???:eek:

Anita Bryant...for some reason I keep getting the urge to drink orange juice.
Breakfast without orange juice is like a day without sunshine.

BTW...this thread has more views and posts on the first page of General Trainz than any other thread. I say keep it going. It helps keep our frustration levels down so we don't attack those who ask "What is Trainz"? :D

wholbr
August 1st, 2011, 11:23 AM
Hi Everybody.
As someone who can remember the 1950s and 60s period, I think what made them "the good old days" if that in fact that was what they where was the following.

There were no mobile telephones, or in the main no telephones in people's homes at all. If you wanted to use the telephone you had to walk to the nearest public one which could be quite some distance away.

There was no Internet, therefore no forums for people to get upset with one another on.

Everyone got paid weekly in cash and therefore people lived by what money they had in their pockets when that ran out you could not spend anymore. You did not need a bank account, credit cards had not been invented and for the average person credit of any kind was very difficult to come by.

in Britain the Pubs shut at 10:30 PM perhaps 11 PM on Saturday nights and nightclubs were virtually unknown with the exception of London where you had to be very wealthy to get in.

Up until the mid-60s most people did not have a car and therefore there where no traffic jams as the average person used public transport to get to work which meant you actually spoke to your neighbours on the local bus stop each morning.

Being born in 1943 I do remember the days before television when neighbours would also talk to each other while in their gardens and the local church would be where us kids went for our entertainment. It provided film shows, outings, cubs, Scouts, local football teams or hockey teams for girls and all sorts of other entertainment right through the week. It was the very heart of the community.

in the 60s when I was a teenager leaving school at 15, there were more jobs than there were people to fill them. That and all the above made life much easier than today.

If that is how you judge " the good old days" then that was just what it was. However, no doubt many would say the above lifestyle would not be good at all Judge by today's standards.

Bill

JimDep
August 1st, 2011, 01:57 PM
Anyway, steering it back to Trainz, is anyone interested in adding that picture of the anti-rehab girl to the list of Trainz engineers? Or maybe put it on the side of a boxcar with some D.A.R.E. logos. You could run it as a public message train. :)

:hehe::eek::hehe::eek::hehe:
I'll do it ! I'll have to send the finished product to you CDP for Trainz 2006, as I don't have the later version. I believe you can format it for 2012. Maybe I can post a pic on the screen shot thread later. To keep it fair and balanced, I may do the same for Anita, if requested.

Anita Bryant...for some reason I keep getting the urge to drink orange juice.
Breakfast without orange juice is like a day without sunshine.



BTW...this thread has more views and posts on the first page of General Trainz than any other thread. I say keep it going. It helps keep our frustration levels down so we don't attack those who ask "What is Trainz"? :D

I've always wanted to drink orange juice with her.

JimDep
August 1st, 2011, 02:00 PM
double post

Dep
August 1st, 2011, 02:14 PM
I've always wanted to drink orange juice with her.

Jim: I have 2006 on one of my comps. But I'd prefer a picture of Anita with a nice orange on the side of a boxcar. Seeing that other peson would just cause me to barf all over my keyboard. :p

martinvk
August 1st, 2011, 04:34 PM
...
If that is how you judge " the good old days" then that was just what it was. However, no doubt many would say the above lifestyle would not be good at all Judge by today's standards.

BillThe picture you paint makes for a very attractive world, especially when compared to the worst of today. But lets look at the whole picture and see how well it stands up.

Anyone remember polio, smallpox, measles and other diseases that were still rampant. Not something I would want to reintroduce.

The small village lifestyle where you knew and were known by your neighbours is often held up as an ideal. Well if you conform to the majority view it probably was but dare to be different and it makes Big Brother look like amateur hour.

Of course big city anonymity can be lonely but it also allows new ideas to sprout and flourish. Are they all good, no but is repressing everything new any better?

I think that if you look closely at every aspect of society, a fair comparison will show similar trends. On the surface life was simpler and perhaps healthier but look a bit deeper and the ugly parts appear.

Dep
August 1st, 2011, 06:59 PM
The picture you paint makes for a very attractive world, especially when compared to the worst of today. But lets look at the whole picture and see how well it stands up.

Anyone remember polio, smallpox, measles and other diseases that were still rampant. Not something I would want to reintroduce.

The small village lifestyle where you knew and were known by your neighbours is often held up as an ideal. Well if you conform to the majority view it probably was but dare to be different and it makes Big Brother look like amateur hour.

Of course big city anonymity can be lonely but it also allows new ideas to sprout and flourish. Are they all good, no but is repressing everything new any better?

I think that if you look closely at every aspect of society, a fair comparison will show similar trends. On the surface life was simpler and perhaps healthier but look a bit deeper and the ugly parts appear.

That kinda depends on how far back you go. I don't think we're talking about going back to the 1860s. More like the 1950s.

Smallpox still has no cure. Only a treatment. Measels also has no cure. Polio also has no cure. Just a preventative vaccine. So you wouldn't be "re-introducing" them. They still exist today. What WOULD be gone would be HIV/AIDS. I lived in a relatively small town as a kid. We knew all the people in our neighborhood. As a kid I was able to ride my bike about a mile away from home and play baseball in the park without being accompanied by a parent. NO parents were there. Just us kids. Think anyone will let their kids do that nowadays?
Back then if you were seen by a neighbor doing something you shouldn't be doing, there was a phone call to your parents and you got corporal punishment when you got home. Parents believed the neighbors over their kids. In school if you got caught goofing around you got whacked by your teacher, then the teacher called the parents and they had to come to school. When you got home you got whacked by them. Amazing what a good whacking will do to straighten you out. Neighbors had block parties and everyone got to know everyone. Now, every house is an island and people don't know who is living next door to them. Could be a saint or a child molester or drug dealer. Nobody knows until police show up and drag them away. That's when you hear the comments "he was a quiet guy that never bothered anyone".

Big city....crime, pollution, crowded, noisy, high taxes, corrupt leaders....no thanks. I call those the ugly parts.

sniper297
August 1st, 2011, 07:58 PM
"Big city....crime, pollution, crowded, noisy, high taxes, corrupt leaders"

Hell, Chicago was like that in the 50s, hasn't gotten any better but it hasn't gotten any worse either. Probably cuz you can't go down from the bottom. :wave:

At AJ, technically this whole thread is off topic since it's all about the decline of the community and really should be in Trainz Community rather than General Trainz. :hehe:

EJB
August 1st, 2011, 08:12 PM
i can remember when you could raise the hood on your car and actually repair the thing without a computer. raise the hood nowadays and most of the time you can't see the engine,
ejb

sniper297
August 1st, 2011, 08:26 PM
I heard that, screwdriver, pliers, and a matchbook. The striker strip on the matchbook was used to clean sparkplugs and points, set the sparkplug gap with a match, set the points gap with the matchbook cover. Might not be specs but close enough to get the little beastie running.

martinvk
August 1st, 2011, 08:56 PM
i can remember when you could raise the hood on your car and actually repair the thing without a computer. raise the hood nowadays and most of the time you can't see the engine,
ejbTrue but hand cranking that visible engine was no fun either. And then, before the on board computer, the fine, interactive adjustments that result in much cleaner burning and higher efficiencies were just a dream in the engine designers minds.

Every age had its advantages and disadvantages. To compare the best of the past with the worst of today is disingenuous at best. As is the claim that everything is better today. As in most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle between the two extremes.

To bring this back OT, even though many profess a love of all things steam, I wonder how romantic the fireman thought his job was after shoveling tons of coal. Or all the other dirty, messy jobs that needed to be done to keep a steam engine functioning. I don't think many passengers or line side residents will miss the billowing clouds of soot either.

RoysTrainz
August 1st, 2011, 09:07 PM
True but hand cranking that visible engine was no fun either. And then, before the on board computer, the fine, interactive adjustments that result in much cleaner burning and higher efficiencies were just a dream in the engine designers minds.

Every age had its advantages and disadvantages. To compare the best of the past with the worst of today is disingenuous at best. As is the claim that everything is better today. As in most things, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle between the two extremes.

To bring this back OT, even though many profess a love of all things steam, I wonder how romantic the fireman thought his job was after shoveling tons of coal. Or all the other dirty, messy jobs that needed to be done to keep a steam engine functioning. I don't think many passengers or line side residents will miss the billowing clouds of soot either.

Just after WWII the mighty german steam loco's I love to see and ride as passenger countless times and hang out of the window and sniff the smoke and got spanked home coz close dirty and smelly but heck young and love'd it. We lived just across the border with Germany near Aachen and still fresh in my memory driving to next big station in Colone (Koln) where many puffing trainz come and go. Wonderful stuff and excellent memories as a kid.

regards

Roy;)

JCitron
August 1st, 2011, 10:11 PM
That kinda depends on how far back you go. I don't think we're talking about going back to the 1860s. More like the 1950s.

Smallpox still has no cure. Only a treatment. Measels also has no cure. Polio also has no cure. Just a preventative vaccine. So you wouldn't be "re-introducing" them. They still exist today. What WOULD be gone would be HIV/AIDS. I lived in a relatively small town as a kid. We knew all the people in our neighborhood. As a kid I was able to ride my bike about a mile away from home and play baseball in the park without being accompanied by a parent. NO parents were there. Just us kids. Think anyone will let their kids do that nowadays?
Back then if you were seen by a neighbor doing something you shouldn't be doing, there was a phone call to your parents and you got corporal punishment when you got home. Parents believed the neighbors over their kids. In school if you got caught goofing around you got whacked by your teacher, then the teacher called the parents and they had to come to school. When you got home you got whacked by them. Amazing what a good whacking will do to straighten you out. Neighbors had block parties and everyone got to know everyone. Now, every house is an island and people don't know who is living next door to them. Could be a saint or a child molester or drug dealer. Nobody knows until police show up and drag them away. That's when you hear the comments "he was a quiet guy that never bothered anyone".

Big city....crime, pollution, crowded, noisy, high taxes, corrupt leaders....no thanks. I call those the ugly parts.

Crime is no different than it was before, nor were weirdos following kids around a park. The thing is the media makes a big thing out of everything today. Back then new traveled more slowly, and people looked out for each other. The news came twice a day as a newspaper and or a TV show, and not every 15seconds with repeats of the repeats of nothing. I hate to say it but CNN and others get to the point that they run out of news when there's a bit event, and I swear they would start interviewing the ants on the sidewalk to see what they'd say if they could!

When I was growing up, we had neighbors who would keep an eye on us as we were out playing. If anything happened, we could go to anyone of them, and they'd contact my mom. I don't see this today in my neighborhood. Kids get the sheltered rides back and forth between the ball field, and are not allowed to socialize with anyone in between.

We also now have parents who don't want to take the time to teach their kids to how not talk to strangers, and how to socialize with other peers, without their mobile devices. People in general don't even socialize with each other the way they used to. Today every family is their own entity and no one is there to look out for each other. There are exceptions of course, but this is what it looks like today.

The other thing too is kids are brought up in such a sheltered indoor environment. They rarely go outside anyway because they're busy playing video games. If they did go out by themselves, they'd probably get lost because they'd need a GPS hooked to their bikes in order to find the ball field and their way home.

Things weren't so rosy in the past. We had diseases as others have said here without cures, or the cures were worse than the disease its self. Beethoven, for example didn't die from pneumonia. He became deaf, but that wouldn't have killed him. He died from the result of his medicine, which contained arsenic and lead!

Growing up we had two wired plugs without ground pins (rare). My parents had toasters that were nothing more than hot wires inside a frame. My mom burned her hand on it when she was 10 years old. Today we have glass tubes, or quartz tubes, instead to heat the bread. This is a lot safer, although the heating isn't as great.

Major pesticides were used such as DDT on our food. Today I have Parkinson's Disease and had thyroid cancer. Both of these have been linked to pesticides such as Chlordane, DDT and others used in agricultural areas where I grew up.

We didn't have the easy technology, although I wonder how much this stuff has made some things so much easier. The thing is, we see the past as being better because we're not in it anymore, and we only see what we want to see. But if we look at what we have today and compare it to what was in the past, we're actually living in the best times, politics or not. In fact the politics really haven't changed much either. If you look through history, you'll see the exact same antics being carried out today as they were 30, 50, even 150 years ago! The thing is, we have micro-sized news bursts and constant news feeds from various sources constantly bombarding us with some tidbit. Some of this bombardment is even misquotes, pure lies, and even plagarized information. News reporters at many outlets today don't even bother to verify the news until after the fact. This is not the way things used to be, or least it wasn't.

Anyway, There are still a lot of good things. We have clean food and water, which were quite rare in the 1930s to 1970s. Back then we still had areas in the US that had no electricity or indoor plumbing. People were smoking, using asbestos, lead paint, and mercury like it was nothing. Radiated toys were handed out like it was nothing, and chemical companies were still dumping major pollutants into the water supplies of many cities and towns. Woburn, MA, Love Canal, and many other areas of the country are proof of that. Today we're cleaning up these areas and building shopping malls on them, and reclaiming the land for other uses as well.

Surgery is less invasive and the recovery time is a lot less. My thyroid surgery in 2003 consisted of a tiny cut the about 1/2" in length, and my recovery time was 6 weeks. About 20 years ago, the same surgery would have meant 2 weeks in the hospital and a scar from one earlobe to the other with months of in bed recovery. Knee surgery is the same. How many people have you seen with knee operations today? A few weeks with a cast and then a cane. Back in the 1980s, this would have been a cast up to their hip. In 1962 I had a clubbed foot operation. I was the youngest person in the world to have this surgery. After that I lived with splints, braces, and casts. Today the same surgery is performed at birth, instead of 1 year, and the cast is nothing more than a tiny plastic pillow-like thing around the leg. My casts were up to my hip and had to be cut-off with a razor saw.

There are many other good things as well like Trainz for example. How could we have something like this if we didn't have computers, and the internet like it is today. Without the proper funding of education, our colleges and universities never would have developed the networks we have for the DOD or for themselves. A lot of our technology came out of the Cold War and the research efforts done at the domestic schools. I could go on, but remember history does repeat its self whether we want it to or not.

John

Dep
August 1st, 2011, 11:57 PM
John: I agree with SOME of what you say :)

I do think crime has gotten worse. At least, the way the in which crimes are committed. Weirdos may have followed kids around the park, but the kids knew enough not to go near them or get in the car with them. And as you said, good people kept an eye out for weirdos. Many times the good people in the town found their own ways to get rid of weirdos and they got help from the police to do so. We don't HAVE "parents" any more. Now we have "parent" and that single parent leaves the kid to his own devices while he/she goes out partying. Can we say Casey Anthony? I still have a wire toaster. Works better and lots cheaper than the new ones :)
We stopped using DDT and now we have malaria back as a problem. Some tradeoff. :(

Trainz...in the past we had toy electric trains and we had even MORE fun running them. I still have an extensive collection of 0-gauge trains and I set them up every Christmas time. Oops...can't say Christmas any more. Have to say Winter Holiday Time.:o

And we all know Al Gore invented the internet (and Global Climate Change).

I don't know about anyone else, but I would gladly turn the clock back to 1940, even with all the drawbacks that that entails. I never did get to ride on one of those smoking, chuffing beasts that ruled the rails back then. That coal smoke would be perfume in my nose compared to the nasty smell of diesel :hehe:

RoysTrainz
August 2nd, 2011, 12:16 AM
absolutely right John the media is the major culprit that makes things look much worse and makes things worse by guiding weirdo's to copycat or invent new things to make the news.
Politicians are second but not better they are the jackals no not jackasses all of them only 99%.
The church(chrisitan i mean) is making progress and catching up on the mafia and how to rule the believers world for centuries as a global business.
Finally its all in the heart and mind of normal people where things happen and can be shared, everything else is doomed for ending up in the hype world we live in.

:eek::eek::eek:
Thailand and also were we live from the outside world is worse the US getto's but let's put it this way every big city in the world has the same problem and most rural countryside including ours is most peaceful and normal to live even with regular weirdo's but still harmless. and yes doors open at night and we live 3 km from the nearest village but more than 1.5 hours from the next city in any direction.

have a great day guys

Roy;)

AJ_Fox
August 2nd, 2011, 12:29 AM
It's been interesting all but the thread is now totally off topic. There are cool Forums where these discussions are welcome.

Thread closed.

Cheers

AJ