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kowboyk1
April 4th, 2011, 04:01 AM
Hi all, ive seen Railworks2 on the net, i dont know anything about it, but trainz is kind of annoying me, im wondering what everyones opinion on Railworks2 is???

pfx
April 4th, 2011, 04:06 AM
You're opening a huge can of worms here...

BLACKWATCH
April 4th, 2011, 04:11 AM
I'm sure everyone on the Railworks2 forums will say it's fantastic.
Wasn't very impressed with the scenario I tried, not a patch on Trainz.

gawpo50
April 4th, 2011, 04:20 AM
Yeah i own it, never use it and it's crap.

I second the above opinion......:p

zatovisualworks
April 4th, 2011, 04:32 AM
You're opening a huge can of worms here...

;) ..Or closing it forever... :D

The déjà vu side of Alberte :wave:

phimat
April 4th, 2011, 05:01 AM
Actually, contrary to all the nay sayers here, RW is very good at what it does - which is to allow run trains through realistic schedules in realistic environments. It does not easily allow you to create new routes or sessions of your own - but then that was never claimed as its strong point.

I got a copy cheap last year - maybe you can find a bargain too. It makes a nice break from all the hassle Trainz can inflict on you.

chunkpowers
April 4th, 2011, 05:01 AM
it has it's pro's and con's i own it's not as bad as tese guys are making it seem i still play it from time to time but i still tend to favor Trainz it kinda like an updated MSTS but better the biggest down fall is the most of the addons are payware

NikkiA
April 4th, 2011, 05:10 AM
I'm sure everyone on the Railworks2 forums will say it's fantastic.
Wasn't very impressed with the scenario I tried, not a patch on Trainz.


Well, yeah, they will - you get banned if you say anything negative about it.

As for my opinions on it? Well, I've run railworks for a total of 1 hour since the 'version 2' upgrade (which wasn't nearly worth justifying calling it railworks 2, and there are rumours that the update with improved lighting will be called 'railworks 3' for further gaming of the press/awards systems). In the same time period trainz has been running for about 200 hours, and thats not including time in CM, or of course time in 3d modelling creating items :)

H222
April 4th, 2011, 06:04 AM
Ha Nikki!! I've played it for 13 minutes and it froze and I un-installed it here

Jamie

philskene
April 4th, 2011, 06:29 AM
Hi kowboy --

There have been several threads about RailWorks. Just do a search using "railworks" and you are bound to find them. You would be better advised to append comments on those threads rather than start another.

Anyway, the good news about RailWorks is that it did win the Game Industry "Simulation of the Year" award. This fact was extensivley publiciised by the RailWorks group.

The bad news (and this was not mentioned in any of the RailWorks publicity) was that the only competitors for the prize were were:
Landit Bandit
Food Network: Cook or Be Cooked
My Boyfriend

"Well, yeah, they will - you get banned if you say anything negative about it."

Unfortunately that's all too true at both train-sim and UKtrainsim. There was a thread about the above prize on both sites. My comment about the level of competition lasted about 15 minutes before it was removed. On both sites RailWorks staffers are quick to press the panic button if there are any adverse posts, and the Moderators remove the post immediately.

The only place where comments can be made freely seem to be here. But as I said, it would be better to add to the existing threads.

Enjoy.

Phil

hminky
April 4th, 2011, 06:33 AM
Hi all, ive seen Railworks2 on the net, i dont know anything about it, but trainz is kind of annoying me, im wondering what everyones opinion on Railworks2 is???

Buy it and try it. You will find you won't use Trainz as much. Sure it has it's bad points but Trainz has more warts.

Also try Open Rails with MSTS, it runs MSTS very well and eliminates all the snarki-ness of MSTS.

Most of these guys are "homers" still running 2004 and whining about 2010 sitting on their hard drives.

All the sims have problems and benefits.

Harold

Edit: It has real junctions and is just as easy to build a route as Trainz
Everyone talks about "scenario's" or "sessions" in Trainz, one of the reasons I use the other sims is there are no sessions available for the routes in Trainz. That is why I always run Open Rails or Railworks. Most of the scenarios for American routes in Trainz are lame. You can't run your own scenarios it is like playing your own levels in a shooter.

airtime
April 4th, 2011, 07:17 AM
Railworks is great if you want rail simulation, but poor if you want to route build, I have found Trainz a superb route building sim, which is very easy to use...

As for adding content, you can buy a Lifetime First Class Ticket for just one price, and you have all the access you need, to all the content you need, However, with Railworks you can buy add on packs, which I believe in the long run may cost more than a Lifetime First Class Ticket...

I must have to agree the content with Railworks and the add on packs are of superb quality, but Trainz is catching up, and with its individually talented content creators fixing errors and problems along the way, they are producing some of the finest content available on the DLS...

If Railworks had an easy to use surveyor like Trainz does, then I would be using Railworks a lot more, only because it's less demanding on lower end computers, I have found Trainz can grind some of the best computers to a crawl, which is such a shame for a great program.

The main item to point out is, if you are finding it hard to build routes in Trainz, then you will be totally lost and baffled by Railworks, like I was...

Hope this helps, and by the way I have both Trainz and railworks on my system, and I enjoy both for different reasons.

Joe Airtime

NikkiA
April 4th, 2011, 07:28 AM
As for adding content, you can buy a Lifetime First Class Ticket for just one price, and you have all the access you need, to all the content you need, However, with Railworks you can buy add on packs, which I believe in the long run may cost more than a Lifetime First Class Ticket...


Given that a lifetime FCT is £77 normal price, and the normal price of railworks addons is £736, there shouldn't really be much doubt about the relative cost :)

And yes, I'm aware that includes *some* 3rd party DLC, and I'm also aware that it occasionally goes on sale for £150.

Boweavel
April 4th, 2011, 07:38 AM
Railworks is great if you want rail simulation, but poor if you want to route build, I have found Trainz a superb route building sim, which is very easy to use......

Hope this helps, and by the way I have both Trainz and railworks on my system, and I enjoy both for different reasons.

Joe Airtime

Took the words from my mouth. User content for Trainz is by far, much easier to get hold of and with a huge variety of era's,regions and many are of great quality and all for free thanks to its community of habitual builders and multitude of web sites hosting various files.
I did a price check for all the addons for Railworks (I have both installed too) and it would set me back about $1300AU and would end up with less items.. than a trainz default install has.

Trainz for me still has that model look to it, and when they released the addon for 'model trainz' (or whatever it was called, build on tabletops,carpets etc) , well that was an idea I'd come up with years ago and when i saw the screenshots of it i thought.. yup, perfect!!

Railworks for me is like BVE on steriods, I mainly only use electrics in railworks, tho i did buy a nice route made by Rich Garber and have enjoyed shunting on it with the odd default diesel. Its too hard to work out how to drive steam yet but then if wasnt for trainz simple control DCC i probably wouldnt of driven them much in Trainz either. And the route building in RW, I just cant get my head around :)

Best thing anyone can do, is buy both and enjoy

Beattie
April 4th, 2011, 07:46 AM
I don't know how you come to that conclusion. The physics are at best "toy train", even the DCC physics in Trainz are better.

The signaling is at best of the basic variety. I mean come on, signals clearing on single track routes, in the opposite direction of player train movements, ( Falmouth Branch as one example ).

No AI shunting, no AI marshalling of train consists.

The general AI intelligence, is far below what the latest versions of Trainz is capable of.

RW is very good for taking pretty screenshots and that is about it.

IKB.


Plus the fact that it takes very strong graphics card and computer to run the beast. Trainz really
doesn't need a good graphics card or processer

Forest_Runner
April 4th, 2011, 07:58 AM
Actually, contrary to all the nay sayers here, RW is very good at what it does - which is to allow run trains through realistic schedules in realistic environments. It does not easily allow you to create new routes or sessions of your own - but then that was never claimed as its strong point.

I got a copy cheap last year - maybe you can find a bargain too. It makes a nice break from all the hassle Trainz can inflict on you.


Took the words from my mouth. User content for Trainz is by far, much easier to get hold of and with a huge variety of era's,regions and many are of great quality and all for free thanks to its community of habitual builders and multitude of web sites hosting various files.
I did a price check for all the addons for Railworks (I have both installed too) and it would set me back about $1300AU and would end up with less items.. than a trainz default install has.

Trainz for me still has that model look to it, and when they released the addon for 'model trainz' (or whatever it was called, build on tabletops,carpets etc) , well that was an idea I'd come up with years ago and when i saw the screenshots of it i thought.. yup, perfect!!

Railworks for me is like BVE on steriods, I mainly only use electrics in railworks, tho i did buy a nice route made by Rich Garber and have enjoyed shunting on it with the odd default diesel. Its too hard to work out how to drive steam yet but then if wasnt for trainz simple control DCC i probably wouldnt of driven them much in Trainz either. And the route building in RW, I just cant get my head around :)

Best thing anyone can do, is buy both and enjoy

I concur with both of these posts. They're unbiased, sensible and obviously from a pair of people who have invested some time in using RW2.

MY kicks from RW2
- animated points out of the box, and actually match the remainder of the track as well.
- runs exceptionally well on my PC.

I'm not going to launch into one vs the other... similar to Bow's mindset... have both and enjoy.

Forest_Runner
April 4th, 2011, 08:00 AM
Trainz really
doesn't need a good graphics card or processer

Mmmm... on what planet??

Beattie
April 4th, 2011, 08:07 AM
Mmmm... on what planet??

Compared to railworks. I mean I was running trainz before my dell icore3 on a 2.8ghz pentium 4 dell opixlex 270 this was on trainz 2009 with 20 to 30 fraps on most route with the all settings high detail except distance was 3000 if it was 5000 it had to be a to so busy route. so yea trainz can run on most computer even ones from 5 or 6 years ago.

hminky
April 4th, 2011, 08:15 AM
Mmmm... on what planet??

Not this one!

The best US route, EK3, brings my system to it's knees because of compatibility mode. I can run Crysis full bore, if you don't know what that means don't talk systems.

I tried TPR's Elkhorn Extension a great US route, but running the scenario's was crappy due to Trainz inability to have good draw distance. You can't run a 70 car train when you only see 30 of them. It blips along in stutters and spits.

Maybe TS12 will advance Trainz past 2006.

Harold

RRSignal
April 4th, 2011, 10:13 AM
Hi all, ive seen Railworks2 on the net, i dont know anything about it, but trainz is kind of annoying me, im wondering what everyones opinion on Railworks2 is???

I tried a Christmas demo; perhaps it's still available. But I won't buy it because of the DRM/product activation. I want to be able to use the product I purchase today years from now, and activation schemes eventually prevent that down the road; DRM/product activation is a form of forced obsolescence, among other things.

amigacooke
April 4th, 2011, 10:34 AM
I very much enjoy running IOW network in RailWorks 2. :)

stovepipe
April 4th, 2011, 12:33 PM
Buy it and try it. You will find you won't use Trainz as much.

Bought it, tried it, found I don't use RW at all. It's a snoozefest IMO.

stovepipe
April 4th, 2011, 12:42 PM
I tried TPR's Elkhorn Extension a great US route, but running the scenario's was crappy due to Trainz inability to have good draw distance. You can't run a 70 car train when you only see 30 of them. It blips along in stutters and spits.

Harold

To provide a bit of balance, I should point out that the draw distance in RW ain't nothing to write home about. Not forgetting also the rubber banding issues and the sometimes frequent Something Bad Has Happened crashes. Nice.

uracco
April 4th, 2011, 12:55 PM
. so yeah trainz can run on most computer even ones from 5 or 6 years ago.
So no trainz can not run on most computers and definetley not ones from 5 or 6 years ago. I have a 4 year old Dell Latitude D600 and trainz has a horrific run rate. About 6 frames per second-rubbish. I mean trainz needs a graphics card from Mars a processor that means forking out £100-£200 extra and a hard drive that adds £300-£400 to a normal laptop. Luckily, I have just purchased a new XPS with leading edge Nvidia graphics card with a 500GB of hard drive and an i3-370m processor and 64-bit Windows 7 home premium. Thank god for that! You really need a fairly up to date laptop to run Trainz, but I can run railworks 1 and 2 easily. But I do love Trainz though.:)
Uracco

Ian_Coleman
April 4th, 2011, 12:56 PM
Bought it. Tried it. Got nowhere with it. Returned to Trainz.

My main interest is in route building and running AI trains - something that Railworks is unbelievably bad at!

Ian

NikkiA
April 4th, 2011, 01:00 PM
To provide a bit of balance, I should point out that the draw distance in RW ain't nothing to write home about.

'Oh look, floating wagons...'

2 minutes later (said wagons now 2m from the driver)

'Oooooh, there the wheels are!!'

RRSignal
April 4th, 2011, 01:06 PM
So no trainz can not run on most computers and definetley not ones from 5 or 6 years ago. I have a 4 year old Dell Latitude D600 and trainz has a horrific run rate. About 6 frames per second-rubbish. I mean trainz needs a graphics card from Mars a processor that means forking out £100-£200 extra and a hard drive that adds £300-£400 to a normal laptop. Luckily, I have just purchased a new XPS with leading edge Nvidia graphics card with a 500GB of hard drive and an i3-370m processor and 64-bit Windows 7 home premium. Thank god for that! You really need a fairly up to date laptop to run Trainz, but I can run railworks 1 and 2 easily. But I do love Trainz though.:)
Uracco

When most people are discussing sims or games, it's assumed we're talking about desktops, not laptops. Laptops are generally far, far behind desktops in terms of performance and until recently, it was hard to even find one with non-integrated video that didn't cost as much as a car (ok, well, slight exaggeration there...) if you could find one at all.

As for video card, my GT240 that I paid $35 for (after rebate) in February runs at a consistent 60fps.

Beattie
April 4th, 2011, 01:14 PM
So no trainz can not run on most computers and definetley not ones from 5 or 6 years ago. I have a 4 year old Dell Latitude D600 and trainz has a horrific run rate. About 6 frames per second-rubbish. I mean trainz needs a graphics card from Mars a processor that means forking out £100-£200 extra and a hard drive that adds £300-£400 to a normal laptop. Luckily, I have just purchased a new XPS with leading edge Nvidia graphics card with a 500GB of hard drive and an i3-370m processor and 64-bit Windows 7 home premium. Thank god for that! You really need a fairly up to date laptop to run Trainz, but I can run railworks 1 and 2 easily. But I do love Trainz though.:)
Uracco


Well if it was a laptop of course that stuck really bad 5 years ago and even some of todays laptops are bad still. I know it would work on a 5 year old computer because I had a dell optiplex 270 2.8ghz pentium 4 computer from 2006 so yea it will and it was under the processer min specs for trainz 2009 and still got most of the time 25 to 30 fraps with the everything on high and distance at 3000 so tell me now what wouldn't it work. sinse I got my new dell icore3 I 3.2ghz it was a huge difference in fraps now I get around 45 to 50.
so next time if its a laptop don't go there of course it couldn't back then run anything but serf the web really.

wholbr
April 4th, 2011, 02:56 PM
Hi Everybody.
What no one seems to have given thought to in this thread is the cost issue between the two simulators.

My wife bought me RW2 as a present last Christmas along with the Exeter to Bristol add-on. My three daughters bought me six consists and engines as very very few come with the simulator and there is very little engines, carriages etc available as freeware.

By the time I got it all setup the cost exceeded one hundred and thirty pounds (British sterling) even if I did not pay it, and that was just to get the whole thing up and running.

Therefore, if you do not mind putting your hand very deeply into your pocket or handbag then RW2 can make a good driving simulator. However, it is nothing more than that in my opinion as using "world editor" to try and create routes would defeat the most determined train simulator enthusiast. All it did on my system was to continuously crash it which no other software seems capable of doing.

As far as available freeware is concerned, all I have found is scenarios which you can create yourself and as stated be prepared to put your hand in your pocket for everything else.

Bill

BLACKWATCH
April 4th, 2011, 04:24 PM
I thought the cost of TS12 'Collectors Edition' was expensive at £97.00, but working out how much the equivelent content is in RW2, well TS12 is a bargain bucket price in comparison.

zatovisualworks
April 4th, 2011, 04:35 PM
Hi B_W,

;) And that's why we all want to stay at Trainz at the bargain price of not more than €40 for the standard edition (http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=71055) of Trainz 12 -which will be a collectible too ;):hehe: - hope not on my dusting shelves-.

The bargaining side of Alberte at the Flea Market :wave:

wholbr
April 4th, 2011, 04:45 PM
Hi Everybody.

Hi B_W,

;) And that's why we all want to stay at Trainz at the bargain price of not more than €40 for the standard edition (http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=71055) of Trainz 12 -which will be a collectible too ;):hehe: - hope not on my dusting shelves-.

The bargaining side of Alberte at the Flea Market :wave:

you are dead right in what you state there Alberte. whatever the cost of TRS 2012 is going to be, at least that can be the end of it.

With Trainz you then get a choice, there is plenty of freeware content about, or you can get excellent quality payware if you wish. The essential point is you get the choice.

With RW2 it is pay for the simulator and then keep paying from there on in for everything you want.

Bill:confused:

mrscsi
April 4th, 2011, 07:18 PM
Not this one!

I can run Crysis full bore, if you don't know what that means don't talk systems.



Wow, is that really the threshold that one has to meet?

Apart from the obvious differences in game engines, and apart from one taking advantage of DirectX 10 with a DirectX 9c MINIMUM, and the other being a DirectX 9c maximum, I really couldn't understand why someone could run Crysis "full bore" and expect that to mean anything in relationship to a different game engine built for a different version of DirectX.

But since I know what the above "means" I guess I am qualified to "talk systems":hehe:

My system absolutely kills the Crysis2 benchmark, future Mark for DirectX 11 again it scored very well, Now does that mean that it's going to run Avery Drexel at a solid 200 frames a second? Not hardly:hehe:

Jet engine does what it does, will they revamp It one of these days? Maybe even replace it? Who knows…

Chances are if they did somebody would be in here complaining about it, might even be you:cool:

Now I'm going to hop off my soapbox and get back to re-skinning containers, only 30 To go…

rjhowie
April 4th, 2011, 09:17 PM
And in I pop again with my regular groan about this alternative sim drag on here. I have lost count of the threads posted- what is it around 5 times it must be that someone keeps creating a comparison re Railworks and once again we go on this kick. I'm going to start geting a tape measure and every bit of string I can find. I just cannot fathom why there is a constant need to re-introduce this time after time after ...time!

Retro00064
April 4th, 2011, 10:00 PM
With the valid points about how these threads might not be such a good idea, any way, I might as well give my 2 cents on RailWorks.

With (from other users' posts here) the RailWorks forum being so "offended" about people posting a negative comment to the point of banning them, that is enough to tell me that they are just a bunch of hooligans. They need to be denied the recognition that they crave (which includes purchasing RailWorks in the first place. Remember: do not feed the trolls), so that hopefully they will get a clue and wise up to their rocket temper. They already have a major good example to follow, which we are posting on right here. N3V seems to be quite tolerant of the common complaining about Trainz and even N3v itself that goes on in these forums, and they deserve the recognition for being so right-minded and generous. Then look at the RailWorks forums, which do not have the actual godly sense like that. That is enough to tell me that buyers should beware of them, just to hopefully get the point across that their actions on their forums is ridiculous. :eek: ;)

Okay, rant over now. ;)

Regards,

Retro00064.

Forest_Runner
April 4th, 2011, 10:20 PM
I have lost count of the threads posted- what is it around 5 times it must be that someone keeps creating a comparison re Railworks and once again we go on this kick. !

NO!! NO!! NO!!... and herein lies the misguided perception about the original post. Maybe an understanding of basic English is required before attempting to shovel that garbage down everyone's throats.

The original poster asked for some feedback and opinions on RW2... nowhere did he/she make it a comparison vs Trainz/TRS/TS.

Typically, members evolve the thread into a comparison because they become so narrow minded and moronically precious about their favourite sim. Notice how it's certain members who repeatedly do this? (rhetorical). :o

amigacooke
April 4th, 2011, 11:32 PM
NO!! NO!! NO!!... and herein lies the misguided perception about the original post. Maybe an understanding of basic English is required before attempting to shovel that garbage down everyone's throats.

The original poster asked for some feedback and opinions on RW2... nowhere did he/she make it a comparison vs Trainz/TRS/TS.Perhaps my knowledge of English is lacking, but Trainz is mentioned by the original poster in unfavourable terms. An implicit rather than explicit comparison.

backyard
April 4th, 2011, 11:50 PM
:cool: Forget it, don't waste you time & money like I did...just because it was a train simulator.

Kris94
April 4th, 2011, 11:56 PM
Can you make your own trains and rolling stock without hassles.

kowboyk1
April 5th, 2011, 12:44 AM
sorry to have upset a few people by "starting yet another thread" on this topic..... I had never heard of Railworks until yesterday and just thought that people who wanted to help me with a comparison would reply to the thread, and people who were sick of reading threads like this would just skip over it rather than enter the thread they are sick of to comment about being sick of those threads.... it wasnt my intention to annoy people, i was just looking for some friendly help.....
thanx so much to all of you who have given me such a great deal of information...... I think i might buy it and have a look based on a few of those replies..... i just might not go crazy with the add-ons until im sure i like it
:)

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 02:57 AM
I'm sure everyone on the Railworks2 forums will say it's fantastic.
Wasn't very impressed with the scenario I tried, not a patch on Trainz.

The graphics are the best there is...
It looks so real.
I realy don't care the scenario's and stuff.
Building a virtual route is easy. Building a real route is easy.
Building scenery is easy and it's easy to import it in the game.

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 03:02 AM
sorry to have upset a few people by "starting yet another thread" on this topic..... I had never heard of Railworks until yesterday and just thought that people who wanted to help me with a comparison would reply to the thread, and people who were sick of reading threads like this would just skip over it rather than enter the thread they are sick of to comment about being sick of those threads.... it wasnt my intention to annoy people, i was just looking for some friendly help.....
thanx so much to all of you who have given me such a great deal of information...... I think i might buy it and have a look based on a few of those replies..... i just might not go crazy with the add-ons until im sure i like it
:)

I know one thing: building an existing route is as easy as it can get's ;)
You need only Google Earth and a spreadsheet.
All to find for free....

The graphics like scenery, the trains, terrain, everything look so real.
With Trainz it' s not the case... sorry to say.

geophil
April 5th, 2011, 03:11 AM
Building a real route is easy.
If you say so. But apparently the makers are targeting a different market then. The creative route builder is not the user they focus on, as prototypic route building seems close to non-existent, compared to Trainz. That's what I can tell from my perspective and the sector I am dealing with.

AJ_Fox
April 5th, 2011, 03:25 AM
Well there you have it kowboyk1, opinions from all. One difference I think you will find is that this Forum will give you all the information you requested (and then some). :)

Cheers

AJ

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 03:32 AM
That's my AJ!!!! :Y: Not pushing anybody out of iterative threads... :D

;)

The thumbs-up side of Alberte :wave:

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 05:06 AM
If you say so. But apparently the makers are targeting a different market then. The creative route builder is not the user they focus on, as prototypic route building seems close to non-existent, compared to Trainz. That's what I can tell from my perspective and the sector I am dealing with.

I don't see the problem ;)
You and I can create what we want he.
But to be creative is a gift, creativity is a talent.
Few people have this talent.
In a certain way, it's a bit easyer to build an existing route.
Creating the existing scenery is a different matter: the real stations, houses etc.
A big help is "RWDecal" by Jim Nobbs, to use with Google Earth.
Have a look http://www.rwdecal.co.uk/

stovepipe
April 5th, 2011, 05:17 AM
NO!! NO!! NO!!... and herein lies the misguided perception about the original post. Maybe an understanding of basic English is required before attempting to shovel that garbage down everyone's throats.

The original poster asked for some feedback and opinions on RW2... nowhere did he/she make it a comparison vs Trainz/TRS/TS.

Typically, members evolve the thread into a comparison because they become so narrow minded and moronically precious about their favourite sim. Notice how it's certain members who repeatedly do this? (rhetorical). :o

I notice it was you who recommended two posts that did just such a comparison. A case of "Do as I say, not do as i do", hmm?

geophil
April 5th, 2011, 05:22 AM
But to be creative is a gift, creativity is a talent.
Few people have this talent.
So why seem all the people with talent stick to Trainz then? Browse the forums here and get an impression of how many people are involved in route building and how many prototypic route projects are going on.


A big help is "RWDecal" by Jim Nobbs, to use with Google Earth.
Have a look http://www.rwdecal.co.uk/
Be assured I have a vague idea of what is going on in the Railsimulator/Railworks world concerning route-building and tools. :wave: :cool: :o

stovepipe
April 5th, 2011, 05:30 AM
The graphics like scenery, the trains, terrain, everything look so real.


Every route in Railworks look the same, the palette of terrain vegetation and trees is very limited.

So not very real at all in my opinion.

Euphod
April 5th, 2011, 05:40 AM
Well there you have it kowboyk1, opinions from all.

Now just hold on Mr. Fox, I haven't given MY opinion yet!

Well, actually I don't have Railworks, but I do listen to Kraftwerk so I think that qualifies me to form an opinion. Did you know that Kraftwerk never really covered Popcorn, but some recordings were mislabeled to credit them? But I digress...
Anyway, I've read that the scenery in Railworks isn't very impressive, and it obviously is expensive to accumulate new content. All in all I think I'd rather take my chances with a First Class Ticket.

Eat what you want...bop 'till you drop!

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 07:29 AM
but I do listen to Kraftwerk so I think that qualifies me to form an opinion.

Really, Ed, we have some common vices! ;) :Y: Trans-Europe Express, for instance. ;)

For absent-minded trainzers: They aren't a dairy product company :hehe:, just one of the most imaginative German musical ensemble ever heard! Quite a Kraftwerk (Power Plant).

The Autobahn side of Alberte :wave:

geophil
April 5th, 2011, 07:40 AM
The Autobahn side of Alberte :wave:

Just listened to "Autobahn" on Radio Caroline half an hour ago. However, "Radioactivity" is played more often these days.

Ghost42
April 5th, 2011, 08:02 AM
All I can say is that reading these types of thread is addictive :(
Rog

mrscsi
April 5th, 2011, 08:18 AM
I don't see the problem
You and I can create what we want he.
But to be creative is a gift, creativity is a talent.
Few people have this talent.
In a certain way, it's a bit easyer to build an existing route.
Creating the existing scenery is a different matter: the real stations, houses etc.
A big help is "RWDecal" by Jim Nobbs, to use with Google Earth.
Have a look http://www.rwdecal.co.uk/

Wow, "a tool for RailWorks that allows you to quickly and accurately create decals using data from Google Earth. These decals are essential for the accurate positioning of scenery items and where complex track laying is required."

Simple question however, what good is having a highly detailed and complex track layout with scenery that's positioned accurately, all sitting on a flat baseboard?:hehe:

Fortunately enough for us Trainz fanatics geophil had some brain cells crash together and from the wreckage we now have TransDem. A marvelously clever program that not only does everything the program described above does, but it also accurately creates the environment using DEM's…

It can use Google Earth as well, it's actually a marvelous program. Is it free? No, is it worth more than what he is asking for it? I'm sure just about every user would answer in the affirmative…

I've also tried rail works, found its route editor rather rudimentary and lacking compared to surveyor. It's pretty when you're running Trains in their prebuilt routes. Even I will admit that…

But if you think it's easier to build a flat route using Google Earth pictures as decals, rather than create a highly detailed geographically correct map using Google Earth pictures as UTM tiles, I guess you just want to build flat maps…:cool:

mrscsi
April 5th, 2011, 08:44 AM
DEM data can be placed directly into RW, mrscsi.

No need for a third party tool to generate the terrain.

Just press the "T" key in the route editor and it self generates the terrain from the DEM files.

That is actually the best part of the editor, everything else is like getting blood out of a stone. :)

IKB.

Well when I was messing with it the only option was redem and it was (and may still be) rather flakey

PerRock
April 5th, 2011, 09:02 AM
Can you make your own trains and rolling stock without hassles.

Not any easier then you can in Trainz. If anything its a lot harder. From what I'm told (I don't have RW) you need to know a bit of hacking to get your own models into it; hence why addons are more expensive.

peter

nugget2225
April 5th, 2011, 09:08 AM
:hehe:
Hi all, ive seen Railworks2 on the net, i dont know anything about it, but trainz is kind of annoying me, im wondering what everyones opinion on Railworks2 is???

i played it once and threw it in the trash

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 09:09 AM
you need to know a bit of hacking to get your own models into it; hence why addons are more expensive.


;) But, dear Peter, if that, add-ons would have to be cheaper to counter the extra 'neuronation' involved... that's unfair. :'(

BTW, I do have and have installed RW but I refuse to talk on the core of it over here, Sacred Trainzland. Perhaps I would be sued by the RW team. I was massacred at their forums too. :hehe:

What I do think is this kind of iterative threads about RW is the kind of good advertisements Trainz and N3VRF41l need; and it's very wise of them to foster and allow it. Sacred Trainzland is the right country to talk about RW. :hehe::p

The searching-for-a-lawyer tribal side of Alberte :wave:

================================================== =========

BTW, Mr. Zec Murphy, guy, would I be allowed to register my RW here to show it as one of my trainzy abandoned stations http://fotos.ibertrainz.eu/albums/userpics/10008/rw_x.jpg up there ↑↑↑? http://www.zatovisualworks.com/smileys/friki1.gif

(just kidding, of course, as almost ever) http://www.zatovisualworks.com/smileys/batch3/tarantula.gif

Retro00064
April 5th, 2011, 10:31 AM
Maybe the reason why that rather skimpy RailWorks freeware route is one of the best is because it is, well, RailWorks freeware! :eek: :p ;)

Regards.

Vern
April 5th, 2011, 10:41 AM
Five pages and still in General Trainz...!

I bounce around between RW2 and Trainz, currently trying to juggle a bit of route building in both - though probably waiting for TS12 and see what it brings to the feast before getting too serious in Trainz.

Route building in Railworks is a more technical process than Trainz. I must disagree slightly with Roland (Geophil) in that there are prototype routes being made, most notably the recent Edinburgh to Glasgow. It doesn't look too bad if you stay in the cab which is the price of the optimisation the developers have used to get it running smoothly and avoid the infamous rubber banding. The problem is that not many people are building scenery items for the sim, even simple stuff like bridges with the result that even prototype based routes have the same trees and generic buildings scattered everywhere. That has resulted in route builders relying on scenery from payware routes as that is pretty much the only way to access additional assets - which of course means any end user must have the route(s) installed.

There's only a few basic terrain textures which are hard to blend both in terms of contrast and the heavy handed tools. In three years since RS came into being only one person I'm aware of has created a new set of textures, kudos to him but the file is huge and the process of getting them in a custom route is quite technical.

By contrast Trainz has hundreds of terrain textures built in as well as thousands of assets.

If Trainz could update the track laying algorithm so points and junctions formed with proper frogs/checkrails and made it easier to operate a player train to a proper regulated and checked timetable, I would probably abandon Railworks. As it is, those factors are the ones which keep drawing me back. In fact, in the past, I've likened Railworks to passing by a bad road accident - the metaphor works on several levels but mostly the one where you tell yourself you won't look, but still end up doing so...

geophil
April 5th, 2011, 12:39 PM
I must disagree slightly with Roland (Geophil) in that there are prototype routes being made, most notably the recent Edinburgh to Glasgow.
Look at the absolute numbers and compare to Trainz. I am not talking about payware routes here. I am talking about average user activity. DIY. That's what's Trainz about.

There are a lot of explanations, of course, which in the end - I believe - have something to do with the RS/RW product and the way it's marketed and maintained.

RS/RW has a smaller user base. These users often have a different, less creative focus. There are fewer route builders among them. And there are even fewer route builders interested in prototypic route building. This hasn't much changed over the last 3 1/2 years, has it?

And I don't think route builders are put off by the inferior signalling system or the rudimentary AI in the first place. It would take a while for the novice route and scenario builder to figure out such shortcomings.

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 03:05 PM
So why seem all the people with talent stick to Trainz then? Browse the forums here and get an impression of how many people are involved in route building and how many prototypic route projects are going on.


Be assured I have a vague idea of what is going on in the Railsimulator/Railworks world concerning route-building and tools. :wave: :cool: :o

geophil, "all the people" is ok with me but that means only quantity.
It' s ok with me that a lot of people are busy with Trainz.
And be assured too: I too have some editions of Trainz.
(and MSTS)
Why I bought Trainz? I was curious. I wanted to see if that was better than MSTS. I am talking about the looks he geophil.

I could not summon the courage to start with it. It would be wrong from
the start and I was sure that I would not exactly turned on by what I saw
before.
The samples of routes I saw: a bit ugly.
Making a real existing route with Trainz is difficult.
(also with MSTS)
Importing home-made scenery is still difficult.
Please try to understand me: I saw a lot of difficult work coming.
(hope this Enlish is good? I live in Belhium he)
And the final result would not satisfy me.
That Content Manager v3.3 is a real pxx in the axxx :)
Even today, I do not know how this thing works, if it's works.
But I have to say TS2010 is a bit better then it' s predecessor.
(the looks he, geophil)

RailWorks was a relief: good looks, good graphics he.
(not low poly)
Closer to the real thing.
Railworks did not frightened me off, not one bit.
So I did start he with RW ;)
And I am still going.
I do like the editor.
I my opinion: RW = user friendly.

Talking about talent.
I only know two guys with talent:
- iceman2117 (German guy)
http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=271&t=64526&start=1020
(some TS2011 Trainz shots)

- Sad27
http://sad-railworks.blogspot.com/

Real talent is rare ;)

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 03:13 PM
Apart from the DEM importation and the fantastic cabviews, the rest is crud.
Cruddy control HUD, which yes you can hide, but takes up a quarter of the screen. Drivers in both ends of the dmu :eek:
Plus a route that is being raved about on UKTS as one of the best yet ( freeware ). :confused:

I do like the cabviews though, compare that 101 cab to the 105 in TS2010. ;)

IKB.

This example you took has nothing to do with RailWorks.
This is pure people related ;)
It' s like a photographer: it's the man not the machine (the camera in this case).

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 03:24 PM
Who uses RW.....................PEOPLE. :confused:

Who creates RW.................PEOPLE. :eek:

IKB.

My dear Friend, you know what I mean he :)
But I do agree: it was not a smart thing to release this route in this
condition.
Have a look at the work of Sad27, a Dutch guy.
If you can do better, please let me know ;)

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 03:25 PM
Real talent is rare ;)

Hi Theokus, ;)

..And it seems that recognising talent is rarer too... ;)

There are myriads of talented people over here, overskilled at the Trainz technology creation and also overskilled at artistry.

Maybe recognising those ones is an art not everybody can be skilled at! :D;)

But as always maybe I'm wrong, and you're right. Please don't kill the messenger, since ;) I'm wearing a new pair of recognising glasses to make justice.


If you can do better, please let me know

No doubt, I will. :hehe: I think the Screenshots Forum here is useless if we go there blindfolded.

The :udrool: side of Alberte :wave:

nexusdj
April 5th, 2011, 03:35 PM
I wonder how many of those talented Railworks content creators would stick with it if they stopped them from charging for there content ?

Theokus I need to ask if you think trainz is that bad then why are you still hanging around these forums ?

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 03:38 PM
Hi Theokus, ;)

..And it seems that recognising talent is rarer too... ;)

There are myriads of talented people over here, overskilled at the Trainz technology creation and also overskilled at artistry.

Maybe recognising those ones is an art not everybody can be skilled at! :D;)

But as always maybe I'm wrong, and you're right. Please don't kill the messenger, since ;) I'm wearing a new pair of recognising glasses.

The blindfolded side of Alberte :wave:

You are too kind ;)
I do understand.
It feels good to meet here a wise man like you... hahaha (sorry he)

People with talent can make the best out of it.
Whether in &with Trainz or RailWorks.

Trainz or RailWorks is like a woman....
Technically spoken and inside, Trainz is the best a man can get.
But I prefer a beautiful woman ;)

RRSignal
April 5th, 2011, 03:42 PM
--deleted--

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 03:48 PM
I wonder how many of those talented Railworks content creators would stick with it if they stopped them from charging for there content ?

Theokus I need to ask if you think trainz is that bad then why are you still hanging around these forums ?

No no no, Trainz is not bad at all.
Technically, Trainz is the best a man can get.
But to me it' s all about the looks he nexsudj.
RailWorks looks better.
And I do find Trainz not user friendly, I am sorry to say.

I am still here to see and to learn, to keep in touch.
I hope one day Trainz has the same good looks like RW has today....
There is some progress but it's less(minor) he, if I compare Classics 1 & 2 with TS2010.

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 03:50 PM
It feels good to meet here a wise man like you... hahaha (sorry he)


:p Really shocking you can recognise that too;) A rarity.

Pleased to meet you, Theokus the two-talent recogniser at the Trainz Forums.

One and zero is smaller. Lucky us! :clap::Y:

As I was afraid, this kind of iterative threads about the happy existence of RW always yields the same old story... Trainz being for dumbs and RW for smarties... like the chocolate pills. :hehe:

I'm also afraid that Michelangelo, Rembrandt or Rubens were given the best palettes and paints at the market. Children at schools have to buy the ones available and their parents can afford.

The dumbest side of Alberte, while having some smarties. :hehe:

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 04:00 PM
Who uses RW.....................PEOPLE. :confused:


Yes indeed.



Who creates RW.................PEOPLE. :eek:


Yes indeed.



The track looks like chunks of angle iron, the scenery all looks false.


They are "looking" better then in Trainz.
Laying track in the editor is just fine with me.



The loco physics are worse than DCC in the first version of Trainz.


I really don't care.



Nearly every add on is "pay before you play".


I really don't care.
They are looking good and they are cheap enough.
I don't botter myself in drawing or making loc's etc.
(but I made some scenery myself)
And I do not buy much.
(money is not a problem ;))



Most of the freeware routes are fictional or tiny parts of branch lines or preserved rubbish.

Again, I really don't care.

TRam__
April 5th, 2011, 04:07 PM
The loco physics are worse than DCC in the first version of Trainz.
I really don't care. :Y:

The physics is an negligible part of train simulator :)

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 04:08 PM
My dear Theokus,

Believe me, I think you're a nice person from this virtuality of the Forums. ;)


RWI don't care at all! ;)

The careless side of Alberte :wave:

===============================================

You are welcome, Brisbane team. We're willingly advertising Trainz on this thread, as always happens on this kind of threads.

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 04:14 PM
:p Really shocking you can recognise that too;) A rarity.

Pleased to meet you, Theokus the two-talent recogniser at the Trainz Forums.

One and zero is smaller. Lucky us! :clap::Y:

As I was afraid, this kind of iterative threads about the happy existence of RW always yields the same old story... Trainz being for dumbs and RW for smarties... like the chocolate pills. :hehe:

I'm also afraid that Michelangelo, Rembrandt or Rubens were given the best palettes and paints at the market. Children at schools have to buy the ones available and their parents can afford.

The dumbest side of Alberte, while having some smarties. :hehe:

Sorry, but I am not familiar with some of your expressions.
Who is Alberte?
I do know some English but not whole the way ;)
But I do like Spain :)
(Magaluf (?), Tenerife, Benemaldena etc. etc.)

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 04:24 PM
[Sorry, completely off-topic but good-mannered to answer a query]



Who is Alberte?

I really don't know and don't care either. ;) Sometimes a clownish character, sometimes a loser, sometimes a helping hand, sometimes a humble creator, sometimes a side of many sides, sometimes a rainbow, sometimes a dumb, sometimes a dreamer, sometimes a bad guy, sometimes insane, sometimes too sane, sometimes... sometimes... sometimes... :D

The many sides side of Alberte :wave:

This is Alberte...

http://centros.edu.xunta.es/iesdocastro/wp-content/plugins/simple-forum/avatars/1243458611.png

Beattie
April 5th, 2011, 04:27 PM
Sorry, but I am not familiar with some of your expressions.
Who is Alberte?
I do know some English but not whole the way ;)
But I do like Spain :)
(Magaluf (?), Tenerife, Benemaldena etc. etc.)

Really what planet are you from that railworks more user friendly. Its design and use is for adults I hate how its not easy to use. Just because it has good graphics who cares if the game overall stucks its userface.

Vern
April 5th, 2011, 04:30 PM
The physics in RW are very ropey.

Loco's that are still accelerating at 90 MPH or holding line speed on 20% throttle - and what's with all the percentage stuff anyway, most traction units have notches? Braking that relies on % movement of the handle and gives an emergency application - not positional stepped or set and lap braking. Kuju took that straight out of the MSTS cookbook for RS and it hasn't changed in RW or RW2. DMU's with Voith (hydraulic) transmission which as IKB says have sub Trainz DCC performance - in fact more like an old Triang transformer as there's virtually no inertia there at all. Each power notch is simply given a top speed regardless of gradient or track conditions, which it then holds - blatantly not correct. Much is being made on UKTS of the new Class 156 DMU which I admit I will probably end up buying, but not a great deal being said about the physics.

I have to disagree with Theo and express my view that physics are one of the most important factors in a train sim. Without accurate physics, it's not a simulation it's an arcade game. Part of the challenge is having slightly less power than you need and having to run flat out to try and keep time. Or for US freight operations, working out how many locos to use on your train to lift a load over a steeply graded mountain section. That is what real railway operations are all about.

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 04:47 PM
I really don't care about your replies either theokus.

If you did what you are doing here, about Trainz on a RW forum.

I guarantee at least the thread would be locked and on some of them, UKTS & ts.com a ban would not be unusual.

At least we are a bit more tolerant here and allow you to spout your heresy and witchcraft. ;)

IKB.

Ow, don't be like that.
It's only a question to know each other.
And that is not easy on a forum, at first ;)
As for me, I tell no lies. I see what I see and I have some experience.
And it would not be the first time that we hang people because they tell a truth... ;)

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 05:01 PM
Believe me, dear Theokus, my sympathies go to you for I know how hard it can be to express your thoughts in a sacred land. I was massacred at the RS/RW forums for that.

But... please understand that we are long-time convinced trainzers (-many of us have also tested RS/RW the most unbiased way we can-) and yes, I agree, this is Sacred Trainzland, but not without having tasted some other broths not very well spiced and cooked.

Bear in mind that it's very difficult for us to understand your positions and very short-narrowed points of view about talents over here, since we know this home and its dwellers very well. Trainz is 10 year old and RW is much younger and untilled.

Your short history at these forums makes me think you haven't seen anything still over the place. Not hundreds but thousands of talented people crowding the creation and screenshots forums.

Despite my well-known separation from the DLS, I'll be always regarding it as the very source of tons of wonderful artistry and digital skills unsurpassed by no other commercial source of digital leisure software, mader by users and for users.

Are you wearing your glasses on? Please, maybe you are on your sunnies. :cool: or maybe you are down there in the Platonic Cave and gets dazzled when out in front of the universal Truth. :p:hehe::D;)

Over here in Iberia we have a saying which puts:

"There's no such a blinder person than the one who doesn't want to see"

I would like to understand you but... I'm wearing my spectacles on.

The clear-seeing side of Alberte ;)

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 05:05 PM
The physics in RW are very ropey.

Loco's that are still accelerating at 90 MPH or holding line speed on 20% throttle - and what's with all the percentage stuff anyway, most traction units have notches? Braking that relies on % movement of the handle and gives an emergency application - not positional stepped or set and lap braking. Kuju took that straight out of the MSTS cookbook for RS and it hasn't changed in RW or RW2. DMU's with Voith (hydraulic) transmission which as IKB says have sub Trainz DCC performance - in fact more like an old Triang transformer as there's virtually no inertia there at all. Each power notch is simply given a top speed regardless of gradient or track conditions, which it then holds - blatantly not correct. Much is being made on UKTS of the new Class 156 DMU which I admit I will probably end up buying, but not a great deal being said about the physics.

I have to disagree with Theo and express my view that physics are one of the most important factors in a train sim. Without accurate physics, it's not a simulation it's an arcade game. Part of the challenge is having slightly less power than you need and having to run flat out to try and keep time. Or for US freight operations, working out how many locos to use on your train to lift a load over a steeply graded mountain section. That is what real railway operations are all about.

Hi Vern, I do understand, please believe me :)
For me it' s a game.
I guess there is nothing wrong with that, isn't it ;)
I do like building scenery, build a route, placing scenery.
And I do admire people using all that technical stuff.
But I guess too that all that technical could scare off beginners.
In my case I don't feel the need to "torture" myself and dive in.
You are a few stages further then I am at the moment.
Nothing wrong with that and I do understand.

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 05:13 PM
Believe me, dear Theokus, my sympathies go to you for I know how hard it can be to express your thoughts in a sacred land. I was massacred at the RS/RW forums for that.

But... please understand that we are long-time convinced trainzers (-many of us have also tested RS/RW the most unbiased way we can-) and yes, I agree, this is Sacred Trainzland, but after having tasted some other broths not very well spiced and cooked.

Bear in mind that it's very difficult for us to understand your positions and very short-narrowed points of view about talents over here, since we know this home and its dwellers very well. Trainz is 10 year old and RW is much younger and untilled.

Your short history at these forums makes me think you haven't seen anything still over the place. Not hundreds but thousands of talented people crowding the creation and screenshots forums.

Despite my well-known separation from the DLS, I'll be regarding it as the very source of tons of wonderful artistry and digital skills unsurpassed by no other commercial source of digital leisure software.

Are you wearing your glasses on? Please, maybe you are on your sunnies. :cool: or maybe you are down there in the Platonic Cave and gets dazzled when out in front of the universal Truth. :p:hehe::D;)

Over here in Iberia we have a saying which puts:

"There's no such a blinder person than the one who doesn't want to see"

I would like to understand you but... I'm wearing my spectacles on.

The clear-seeing side of Alberte ;)

My first serious love-one was an Iberian...
(Manuela Garcia from Granada: I miss here)
Sorry for the O.T :)

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 05:17 PM
My first serious love-one was an Iberian...
(Manuela Garcia from Granada: I miss here)
Sorry for the O.T :)

:hehe: Sending our warmest greetings to Manuela!

Manuela, Theo is missing you, don't be cruel to him! ;)

The gossiping side of Alberte :wave:

mezzoprezzo
April 5th, 2011, 05:31 PM
~snip~
But I do like Spain :)
(Magaluf (?), Tenerife, Benemaldena etc. etc.)

Magaluf, Tenerife (south coast) and Benalmadena are not Spanish.

They are cosmopolitan tourist hellholes (IMHO), totally misrepresenting the true Spain.

Anyone who enjoys those resorts just wants to import their own northern Europen country habits into Iberia and the Islas Canarias whilst enjoy a decent climate. I guess they suit Railworks users, happy and content with an inferior option.:D

The real Spain is a delight – and so is Trainz.

Why not spend a few more hours exploring its limitless functionality and see what can be done with it. It might appear user unfriendly to you until you become more competent and experienced, simply because there is so much to do and learn. It might be a very much more positive use of your time.
.

TRam__
April 5th, 2011, 05:47 PM
Loco's that are still accelerating at 90 MPH or holding line speed on 20% throttle - and what's with all the percentage stuff anyway, most traction units have notches?At 90 MPH may it be you are right - the power of DMU is constant at so big speed. But at 10-20 MPH it is completely wrong - the power depends both from speed and from controller % (i mean power , not traction force)

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 05:56 PM
The real Spain is a delight – and so is Trainz.
.

http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/funny-smileys-68129/clap.gif

:hehe: Since this thread is an advertising board for Trainz beating RW 50-2 or 3 from the very beginning, why not some ads about my land, my city Vigo, the real Northwest of the Iberian Peninsula, Galiza? ;)

http://www.zatovisualworks.com/zvwphoto/albums/cesantes/DSC01835.jpg

http://www.zatovisualworks.com/zvwphoto/albums/a-ria-de-vigo-dende-o-monte-alba/reg/Ria_Vigo-1.jpg

More advertising tourist fun...

http://www.zatovisualworks.com/zvwphoto/

Galician track viewing...

http://www.zatovisualworks.com/zatotrainz/vigo_catenary/

The advertising side of Alberte :wave:

Thank you, dear Casper ;)

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 06:26 PM
Magaluf, Tenerife (south coast) and Benalmadena are not Spanish.

They are cosmopolitan tourist hellholes (IMHO), totally misrepresenting the true Spain.

Anyone who enjoys those resorts just wants to import their own northern Europen country habits into Iberia and the Islas Canarias whilst enjoy a decent climate. I guess they suit Railworks users, happy and content with an inferior option.:D

The real Spain is a delight – and so is Trainz.

Why not spend a few more hours exploring its limitless functionality and see what can be done with it. It might appear user unfriendly to you until you become more competent and experienced, simply because there is so much to do and learn. It might be a very much more positive use of your time.
.

Yes, you are right :)

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 06:33 PM
Magaluf, Tenerife (south coast) and Benalmadena are not Spanish.

They are cosmopolitan tourist hellholes (IMHO), totally misrepresenting the true Spain.

Anyone who enjoys those resorts just wants to import their own northern Europen country habits into Iberia and the Islas Canarias whilst enjoy a decent climate. I guess they suit Railworks users, happy and content with an inferior option.:D

The real Spain is a delight – and so is Trainz.

Why not spend a few more hours exploring its limitless functionality and see what can be done with it. It might appear user unfriendly to you until you become more competent and experienced, simply because there is so much to do and learn. It might be a very much more positive use of your time.
.

You have to try them all he mezzoprezzo :)
Since 1987 I do only Tenerife > Puerto de la Cruz.
And in Tenerife there are NO trains...

I am Flemisch... and the Flemisch invented almost Tenerife.
(look it up if you have time)

Alco_P-A
April 5th, 2011, 06:39 PM
Here we go again bashing Railworks2. First of all there is no compairison of Trainz to Railworks2 because they are two different train sim games. Trainz is more like model railroading and RW2 is more like real railroading. Both have their good points and bad points about them such as sound,physics,etc. and it will be up to each person to figure out which one they want or like the best. It's all about one's taste. As of now there is no perfect train game out there. I have both and I have spent alot of money on both after buying them because of payware and I enjoy each one very much. Route building in RW2 is a learning curve but Trainz is too. People ask me which train sim should I buy and I tell them both sides of RW2 and Trainz and tell them to do some research on both of them and then decide which one you think is best for your train needs. I'm sure there are train basher's on both sides to go around but what is the point? Which ever one you decide to buy you will have hours and hours of fun with. Buy both and you can't go wrong.
:) Alco_P-A
bigboytrainsandhobbies.com

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 06:45 PM
http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/funny-smileys-68129/clap.gif

:hehe: Since this thread is an advertising board for Trainz beating RW 50-2 or 3 from the very beginning, why not some ads about my land, my city Vigo, the real Northwest of the Iberian Peninsula, Galiza? ;)


More advertising tourist fun...

http://www.zatovisualworks.com/zvwphoto/

Galician track viewing...

http://www.zatovisualworks.com/zatotrainz/vigo_catenary/

The advertising side of Alberte :wave:

Thank you, dear Casper ;)

Nice done.

I like Masca, Garachico, Icod etc.

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 06:49 PM
Here we go again bashing Railworks2. First of all there is no compairison of Trainz to Railworks2 because they are two different train sim games. Trainz is more like model railroading and RW2 is more like real railroading. Both have their good points and bad points about them such as sound,physics,etc. and it will be up to each person to figure out which one they want or like the best. It's all about one's taste. As of now there is no perfect train game out there. I have both and I have spent alot of money on both after buying them because of payware and I enjoy each one very much. Route building in RW2 is a learning curve but Trainz is too. People ask me which train sim should I buy and I tell them both sides of RW2 and Trainz and tell them to do some research on both of them and then decide which one you think is best for your train needs. I'm sure there are train basher's on both sides to go around but what is the point? Which ever one you decide to buy you will have hours and hours of fun with. Buy both and you can't go wrong.
:) Alco_P-A
bigboytrainsandhobbies.com

Yes, you are right.
I have MSTS too (and Trainz and RW)
It's nobodies fault I was quick up and running RailWorks ;)
I use Google SketchUp and Studio Max for scenery.

Euphod
April 5th, 2011, 06:57 PM
Trainz is more like model railroading and RW2 is more like real railroading.

It's nice how you are being non-judgmental and all that, but this wasn't necessary. This is your opinion, and when viewed in the context of the rest of your post, it negates practically everything else you typed...

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 07:00 PM
Buy both and you can't go wrong.


;) Hi guy,

And that's what many of us did... please, nobody should forget that; we aren't talking just for the sake of iterative talking... there seems to be a certain touch of misunderstanding on this.


you will have hours and hours of fun withThe fun level is unbalanced towards Trainz by tons. Those who could think I might be talking in a biased way just haven't met me for long enough time still. Trainzerism is not a religion, it's a tested conviction. :hehe: No, no, we're not playing Trainz in jail, I mean the other kind of conviction. ;)

I completely agree with you that this kind of threads is unnecessarily iterative... but since they only occur from time to time, they are bearable and even funny. :D

The convicted-by-jury trainzy side of Alberte :wave:

jointedrail
April 5th, 2011, 07:15 PM
Railworks is a joke. If you think that is anything close to real railroading, its not. Not even close. Trainz isn't perfect, but its a whole lot better off than RW will ever be. I still use RW, however the manner in which I use it probably varies from yours. I use my copy as a beverage coaster so my desk doesn't get wet. :p

Good Luck.

Mike

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 07:16 PM
:hehe::p BTW, for those who aren't convinced of Trainz niceties... just received on the 'new' Trainz advertising letter...

Maybe they should try this...

http://images.auran.com/auran.com/shop/boxes/AgriculturalSim2011.jpg (http://www.auran.com/auran/store/index.php?p=3&PID=342)

And at a bargain price... Click on the pic to feel a loving breeze on your face while riding a fashionable tractor amidst the unforgettable smell of grazing cows... :D
You are welcome, N3VRF41lers, my pleasure... ;):p

The farming side of Alberte :wave:

mrscsi
April 5th, 2011, 07:27 PM
geophil, "all the people" is ok with me but that means only quantity.
It' s ok with me that a lot of people are busy with Trainz.
And be assured too: I too have some editions of Trainz.
(and MSTS)
Why I bought Trainz? I was curious. I wanted to see if that was better than MSTS. I am talking about the looks he geophil.

I could not summon the courage to start with it. It would be wrong from
the start and I was sure that I would not exactly turned on by what I saw
before.
The samples of routes I saw: a bit ugly.
Making a real existing route with Trainz is difficult.
(also with MSTS)
Importing home-made scenery is still difficult.
Please try to understand me: I saw a lot of difficult work coming.
(hope this Enlish is good? I live in Belhium he)
And the final result would not satisfy me.
That Content Manager v3.3 is a real pxx in the axxx
Even today, I do not know how this thing works, if it's works.
But I have to say TS2010 is a bit better then it' s predecessor.
(the looks he, geophil)

RailWorks was a relief: good looks, good graphics he.
(not low poly)
Closer to the real thing.
Railworks did not frightened me off, not one bit.
So I did start he with RW
And I am still going.
I do like the editor.
I my opinion: RW = user friendly.

Talking about talent.
I only know two guys with talent:
- iceman2117 (German guy)
http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=271&t=64526&start=1020
(some TS2011 Trainz shots)

- Sad27
http://sad-railworks.blogspot.com/

Real talent is rare

From this post I can make a determination and actually gain a lot of insight and knowledge about you, all from a single post.

You're extremely superficial and shallow "I am talking about the looks" and "The samples of routes I saw: a bit ugly."

You're afraid to expand your horizons, abhor any type of work, and as a result you've limited yourself to going through life with limited knowledge and that's really a disservice to yourself.

I also take issue with the statement "That Content Manager v3.3 is a real pxx in the axxx Even today, I do not know how this thing works, if it's works." For hundreds of thousands of us content manager works just fine, for me particularly not only does it work just fine Content Creator Plus is a wonderful tool that allows me to modify content to my hearts content.

"Importing home-made scenery is still difficult." Maybe for someone who doesn't want to expand their knowledge to learn how to do it. But I know 13-year-olds who not only do it daily, but practically hourly.

If you only know two guys with talent, I would have to say that due to your superficiality, resistance to learning, reluctance to have to do any kind of "work" has severely stunted your social development as well. You can't throw a rock anywhere in the Trainz community and not hit at least 20 people who are extremely talented.

Let me just name just a few, geophil is one talented dude, creating TransDem I would consider to be one extremely difficult proposition. Ocemy, his release of his new container pack, I will guarantee you you will not find any finer content from an artistic standpoint in RailWorks. The JointedRail team, some of the finest rolling stock available. Cloakedghost, his well cars, containers and his new SD70 are all works of art. All of the many vegetation artists, way too many to mention but they know who they are.

I could go on and on and on and on and on. But I think you summed it up rather succinctly, you can only find two people that you actually know with real talent over on the RailWorks side, all you have to do is come here to be surrounded by greatness with an over abundance of talent…

One small note going back to your "importing homemade scenery is still difficult" remark. I spent the day yesterday casually taking all of Ocemy's container skins and applying them to both JointedRail's and Cloakedghost's actual mesh's as well as stretching them to 45, 48 and 53 foot. I created well in excess of 100 new containers in probably less than four hours. Put each and everyone right back into Trainz 2010 without a single issue.

Content manager 3.3 worked like a champ as well as Content Creator Plus. Both did what they were supposed to do time and time again.

So my suggestion to you would be simple, expand your horizons, realize that nothing rewarding in life is going to come without a little work or difficulty, and expand your social horizons as well, hang out here where you can be surrounded with hundreds of thousands of talented people instead of hanging out over there only knowing two…:hehe:

aardvark1
April 5th, 2011, 07:55 PM
~~~~~snip~~~~~

I could go on and on and on and on and on.

~~~~~snip~~~~~

You did just do that.:D

Come on people, this is about a GAME. It is not real railroading, it is a computer game. Both GAMES discussed above have their pros and cons.

All the master debaters in support of one or the other have their opinions and deserve to be respected, not to be criticised for their opinions.

Zec signs off as....Customer Support Rep
..........................Auran Games

See the words.... Auran Games

Regards to all,

mrscsi
April 5th, 2011, 08:46 PM
You did just do that.:D

Come on people, this is about a GAME. It is not real railroading, it is a computer game. Both GAMES discussed above have their pros and cons.

All the master debaters in support of one or the other have their opinions and deserve to be respected, not to be criticised for their opinions.

Zec signs off as....Customer Support Rep
..........................Auran Games

See the words.... Auran Games

Regards to all,

I see you were slighted that I didn't mention your obvious talent of following me around and making snarky comments on practically every post I make, I'll try to do better in the future:hehe:

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 08:55 PM
:hehe: A duel at OK Corral, guys? ;)

This thread is a wonderful display window.. I love it!

Advertising, psychology, travelling, tourism, missing old loves, duelling, religion, sociology on tribal behaviour, philosophy, farming, making friends or foes, meeting Belgium, ... and much more to see... for free.

That's my kind of threads! :D Iterative but amusing.

The fondest side of this kind of Alberte's threads :wave:

==========================

BTW,

:hehe:
any opinions on Railworks2??

Nah, none at all...

mrscsi
April 5th, 2011, 09:27 PM
:hehe: A duel at OK Corral, guys? ;)

This thread is a wonderful display window.. I love it!

Advertising, psychology, travelling, tourism, missing old loves, duelling, religion, sociology on tribal behaviour, philosophy, farming, making friends or foes, meeting Belgium, ... and much more to see... for free.

That's my kind of threads! :D Iterative but amusing.

The fondest side of this kind of Alberte's threads :wave:

==========================

BTW,

:hehe:

Nah, none at all...

Exactly

I chose every word I spoke very carefully. I merely examined his statement and countered with what I thought were very POSITIVE counterpoints.

Exalting the benefits of a good work ethic and education, mentioning (some by name) some of the outstanding talented individuals we have in the Trainz community.

Frankly I don't care if someone likes RailWorks over Trainz or vice versa. But when obvious misstatements are made, or statements that show a lack of desire to expand one's knowledge, I believe it would be a disservice just let those words stand without a reply.

I guess some would rather let obvious misconceptions be posted without any response whatsoever, unfortunately I'm not one of those. I don't feel I criticized the original poster in any way shape or form. Merely countered his statements with positive counterpoints and examples.

I too have enjoyed the ebb and flow of this thread, even learned something (possibly) where I'm even digging out my old copy of RailWorks to see. But when someone "implies" that RailWorks is far superior to Trainz and then goes on to make disparaging comments about content manager, and then to further "imply" that there's no REAL talent in this community (and that he's only found two really talented people over there) that's kind of like coming into my living room and insulting my dog, you can say what you want about me, but when you start dissing my dog you're going to get a response…:o

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 09:51 PM
Exalting the benefits of a good work ethic and education, mentioning (some by name) some of the outstanding talented individuals we have in the Trainz community.


I liked that. ;)

Keep doing it, please.

The liking side of Alberte :wave:

Red_Rattler
April 5th, 2011, 09:56 PM
I have a way to settle this once and for all.

zatovisualworks
April 5th, 2011, 10:00 PM
I have a way to settle this once and for all.

;) Please, R_R, don't scare us! :D I fear the worst of the worst. :hehe: Please, don't, don't. He http://www.zatovisualworks.com/smileys/batch3/snake.gif wouldn't do it...

The scared side of Alberte :wave:

jointedrail
April 5th, 2011, 10:05 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/Indiana_Jones_-_In_Before_The_Lock.gif

Its coming!

mrscsi
April 5th, 2011, 10:06 PM
I have a way to settle this once and for all.

If it involves physical exertion count me out, I'm knackered from doing all the stuff retired people do everyday:cool:

cascaderailroad
April 5th, 2011, 10:08 PM
If you Google: Railworks

Then select Google: Videos

On YouTube there are many videos that will give you an idea about Railworks

PerRock
April 5th, 2011, 10:11 PM
If you Google: Railworks

Then select Google: Videos

On YouTube there are many videos that will give you an idea about Railworks

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=railworks

peter

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 10:16 PM
From this post I can make a determination and actually gain a lot of insight and knowledge about you, all from a single post.

You're extremely superficial and shallow "I am talking about the looks" and "The samples of routes I saw: a bit ugly."

You're afraid to expand your horizons, abhor any type of work, and as a result you've limited yourself to going through life with limited knowledge and that's really a disservice to yourself.

I also take issue with the statement "That Content Manager v3.3 is a real pxx in the axxx Even today, I do not know how this thing works, if it's works." For hundreds of thousands of us content manager works just fine, for me particularly not only does it work just fine Content Creator Plus is a wonderful tool that allows me to modify content to my hearts content.

"Importing home-made scenery is still difficult." Maybe for someone who doesn't want to expand their knowledge to learn how to do it. But I know 13-year-olds who not only do it daily, but practically hourly.

If you only know two guys with talent, I would have to say that due to your superficiality, resistance to learning, reluctance to have to do any kind of "work" has severely stunted your social development as well. You can't throw a rock anywhere in the Trainz community and not hit at least 20 people who are extremely talented.

Let me just name just a few, geophil is one talented dude, creating TransDem I would consider to be one extremely difficult proposition. Ocemy, his release of his new container pack, I will guarantee you you will not find any finer content from an artistic standpoint in RailWorks. The JointedRail team, some of the finest rolling stock available. Cloakedghost, his well cars, containers and his new SD70 are all works of art. All of the many vegetation artists, way too many to mention but they know who they are.

I could go on and on and on and on and on. But I think you summed it up rather succinctly, you can only find two people that you actually know with real talent over on the RailWorks side, all you have to do is come here to be surrounded by greatness with an over abundance of talent…

One small note going back to your "importing homemade scenery is still difficult" remark. I spent the day yesterday casually taking all of Ocemy's container skins and applying them to both JointedRail's and Cloakedghost's actual mesh's as well as stretching them to 45, 48 and 53 foot. I created well in excess of 100 new containers in probably less than four hours. Put each and everyone right back into Trainz 2010 without a single issue.

Content manager 3.3 worked like a champ as well as Content Creator Plus. Both did what they were supposed to do time and time again.

So my suggestion to you would be simple, expand your horizons, realize that nothing rewarding in life is going to come without a little work or difficulty, and expand your social horizons as well, hang out here where you can be surrounded with hundreds of thousands of talented people instead of hanging out over there only knowing two…:hehe:

A lot of text mrscsi.
But well done ;)

It seems that I am a sinner :hehe:
And it seems, some people are feeling offended.
And you did get me wrong: I know a lot of people but only a few play games ;)

Do surprise me and show some images, they are more convincing.

aardvark1
April 5th, 2011, 10:21 PM
Deleted by me. Not really worth the time to comment.

PerRock
April 5th, 2011, 10:25 PM
A lot of text mrscsi.
But well done ;)

It seems that I am a sinner :hehe:
And it seems, some people are feeling offended.
And you did get me wrong: I know a lot of people but only a few play games ;)

Do surprise me and show some images, they are more convincing.

Take a gander over at the European Screenshots thread. A good number of those are really quite mind blowing. Some you would think are real photographs unless you go over the entire picture with a fine-tooth comb.

peter

Red_Rattler
April 5th, 2011, 10:29 PM
I have a way to settle this once and for all.Any brand of simulator has it's good and bad points.

And it also depends how well each item, rollingstock, etc is made for each simulator.

The only way to find out, is to buy the product, and see for yourself. And if you don't like one over the other, either sell it, give it away, or return it if needs be.

PS: Over 8 pages in two days?:eek:

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 10:34 PM
Take a gander over at the European Screenshots thread. A good number of those are really quite mind blowing. Some you would think are real photographs unless you go over the entire picture with a fine-tooth comb.

peter

Ok Peter and thank you.
That's a reason I pointed to Ice2117, great guy and great talent.
Look at his screen Trainz-shots.
(in my opinion a bit too saturated but I can live with that)
Talent is talent and I do NOT doubt in people with talent.

Update.
Peter I took a look at http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=70796
I am sorry... but Could not tempt me ;)

This guy, Ice 2117, has talent:
http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic.php?f=271&t=64526&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=1020
I did not see anything better :)
And he has making the best of it.

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 10:35 PM
Any brand of simulator has it's good and bad points.

And it also depends how well each item, rollingstock, etc is made for each simulator.

The only way to find out, is to buy the product, and see for yourself. And if you don't like one over the other, either sell it, give it away, or return it if needs be.

PS: Over 8 pages in two days?:eek:

I did bought them and I saw.... enough ;)

mrscsi
April 5th, 2011, 10:47 PM
A lot of text mrscsi.
But well done ;)

It seems that I am a sinner :hehe:
And it seems, some people are feeling offended.
And you did get me wrong: I know a lot of people but only a few play games ;)

Do surprise me and show some images, they are more convincing.

http://ryomag.com/td/53-1.JPG

A reskin of one of Ocemy's containers on a 53' mesh

http://ryomag.com/td/53-2.JPG

Another angle

http://ryomag.com/td/53-3.JPG

From the front...

I have yet to see anything detailed to that extent in Railworks and I am looking at the moment...

Alco_P-A
April 5th, 2011, 10:49 PM
If a little bit of RW2 and a little bit of Trainz were put together what a wonderful world this would be and maybe a better train simulator game in general for everyone. And maybe no more bashing of train games.
:) ...Alco_P-A
bigboytrainsandhobbies.com

mrscsi
April 5th, 2011, 10:55 PM
Just looked at the containers in the San Bernadino to Barstow route and sorry they don't EVEN come close...

mrscsi
April 5th, 2011, 11:18 PM
Now just to be crystal clear...

I bought Ocemy's ContZ pack and I have bought CloakedGhosts and have JointedRails containers as well. The above pictures are of a reskin that I did for MY personal collection from materials I have either bought or were freeware...

They ARE NOT going to be distributed in any way shape or form...

Just to avoid any of the deluge of questions regarding those pictures...

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 11:19 PM
Just looked at the containers in the San Bernadino to Barstow route and sorry they don't EVEN come close...

I have only UK stuff mrsci ;)
This is my first attempt, made a few yaers ago.
In those days we had Rail Simulator...
http://www.theokus.be/dales.jpg

mrscsi
April 5th, 2011, 11:29 PM
Now of course that house is nice but can it pull a load of containers over cajon?:hehe:

Here is some of the "low poly" (as you put it) scenery in Trainz 2010

http://ryomag.com/td/oy1.jpg

http://ryomag.com/td/oy2.jpg

http://ryomag.com/td/oy3.jpg

But I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

theokus
April 5th, 2011, 11:35 PM
Now of course that house is nice but can it pull a load of containers over cajon?:hehe:

Here is some of the "low poly" (as you put it) scenery in Trainz 2010

But I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

Haha, no no, you did a good job!
That's the way I like it and TS2010 needs this...

An other first attempt made in 2008
http://www.theokus.be/g1.jpg

http://www.theokus.be/newyear.jpg

mrscsi
April 5th, 2011, 11:52 PM
I'll see your house and shed and raise you a fence and out buildings...

http://ryomag.com/td/ad1.jpg

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 12:05 AM
I'll see your house and shed and raise you a fence and out buildings...



You can do much better....
Your containers are of very good quality ;)
http://www.theokus.be/G-Wall.jpg

http://www.theokus.be/muur1.jpg

mrscsi
April 6th, 2011, 12:13 AM
You can do much better....
Your containers are of very good quality ;)

Well compared to Railworks, yeah they are...:hehe: and they are not my creations not by a long shot...

I personally believe JointedRail's loco's are superior to anything in Railworks as well. Can't wait for CloakedGhost to finish up his SD70 because it looks lightyears ahead of what's available now...

With that said yeah your little house and shed looked good but I guess they didn't use them in the San Bernadino to Barstow route because I saw nothing in that route that would make me stand up and say WOW...

But the grass, trees and other items in the Avery Drexal shot stand right up with the grass and trees in the shot of your house...

But I have had Railworks on my drive now for about 3 hours (2 hours too long) and it's time to put it back on the shelf where it belongs...

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 12:24 AM
Well compared to Railworks, yeah they are...:hehe: and they are not my creations not by a long shot...

I personally believe JointedRail's loco's are superior to anything in Railworks as well. Can't wait for CloakedGhost to finish up his SD70 because it looks lightyears ahead of what's available now...

With that said yeah your little house and shed looked good but I guess they didn't use them in the San Bernadino to Barstow route because I saw nothing in that route that would make me stand up and say WOW...

But the grass, trees and other items in the Avery Drexal shot stand right up with the grass and trees in the shot of your house...

But I have had Railworks on my drive now for about 3 hours (2 hours too long) and it's time to put it back on the shelf where it belongs...

Ok I understand :)
San B. is not worth (?) te money....

The trains, loc's etc. are now much better in Trainz 2010.
(not before...)

In RailWorks too you know.
They are really good (looking good he).


About work....

3 years a go I did not much knew about train-sim's.
Rail Simulator (and RailWorks) did the trick ;)
I learned 3DS Max and Sketchup (Google).
I did start from scratch and had nothing in the beginning.

mrscsi
April 6th, 2011, 12:26 AM
But hey it's been fun but I will leave you with these...

http://ryomag.com/td/2.jpg

http://ryomag.com/td/3.jpg

And the winner of the JointedRail Screenshot Competition...

http://ryomag.com/td/4.jpg

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 12:30 AM
But hey it's been fun but I will leave you with these...

And the winner of the JointedRail Screenshot Competition...



Good show.
I like the second one > those details he.

steve123
April 6th, 2011, 01:11 AM
Everything looks very real to life in RailWorks, in Trainz it doesn't, however if Trainz looked like Railworks2 with the database it has how good would it be,
maybe a lesson there, if RailWorks had a much greater database for free it would leave Trainz derailed.
What type of game engine does RailWorks have
steve

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 01:38 AM
Everything looks very real to life in RailWorks, in Trainz it doesn't, however if Trainz looked like Railworks2 with the database it has how good would it be,
maybe a lesson there, if RailWorks had a much greater database for free it would leave Trainz derailed.
What type of game engine does RailWorks have
steve

I don't know Steve.
I have a real strong pc but I get "stutters" using RW.
(not much or often but they are there)
Not with Trainz.

I think the engine of RW can not pull the load of scenery.

A shot of one of my routes
http://www.theokus.be/trein.jpg

And users have to know how to use scenery.
There are 3 kinds: nearby, mid and far.
Far is about 600 meters left and right of the tracks.
Scenery for far has less details he.

In Trainz I have the impression that all of the scenery is not worked out
in detail. I see a lot of trees with a cross-shape in it.
But it's changing... slowly;)
More and more people are making good quality scenery.

geophil
April 6th, 2011, 02:44 AM
Theokus, your screenshot illustrates in the best way the different perceptions of railway simulation. Two trains on the line? How can this be? A severe safety hazard and one of the worst scenarios in railway operation.

Apparently, for you this does not matter. Otherwise you would not have shown us this screenshot.

But that's what it is all about: Your expectation of a software that claims to simulate the railways is different to mine. And while you seem to be happy with the product, many people here think it misses on some of the essentials of the railway system - like protoytpical signalling and operation.

For me, one of the fundamental challenges of the railway is to safely operate more than one train sharing a common and limited resource, the track. A simulation software which falls short here is of no value to me.

As a loco driver/engineer in the simulation, the user experience is not confined to the train you are running, your performance also affects the operation of other trains around you. In a good simulation you can actually watch the effects on the other trains. Single track working is one of the typical scenarios here.

Visible interaction of train movements and signalling is highly dynamic. And this dynamic behaviour is one of the most fascinating aspects of railways. It does not need a professional simulation to emulate this interaction on your PC. Trainz performs quite well here.

H222
April 6th, 2011, 03:03 AM
Theokus, may I ask what you're doing here?? This is a Trainz Forum, and if you're so loyal to Railworks, stop annoying us with you continuos streams of annoying and smart-mouthed comments, as you won't get many people buying Railworks on a TRAINZ (With a Z) Forum
Phil, I thought the shot was wonderful, but then I realised I was looking at the sky, and not the actual content part:hehe: :hehe:

BTW, the track in that shot looks horrible, and you should really replace it with 'UK Bullhead '09' but you can't!!:hehe: :hehe:

Jamie

mrscsi
April 6th, 2011, 03:26 AM
Well the only reason I jumped in was the comment about railworks having better graphics. I own both, compared to 2006 yeah, even compared to TC and 2009 you might make a case. But I found in 2010 and assets created for 2010 (or the very least 2009) that model detailing is making leaps and bounds in Trainz.

Which is why I put up the screenshots of the container re-skin and then the shots of the container yard that Ocemy so brilliantly created to show that Trainz 2010 aint no slouch in visual aesthetics. In many cases it will rival or surpass railworks (again we are talking about the built-in routes in railworks) I haven't bought any of the content packs and don't intend to.

When it comes to my payware dollar, it will go to Trainz creators. With Ocemy's brilliant work on that container set I'm confident that visually Trainz 2010 and beyond will continue to get better. Now I may sound like I'm hyping that container set, but you really need to see it in action, screenshots just do not do it justice.

I feel the Cloakedghost's SD70 is probably going to be the same breathtaking experience when I see it up close. I look forward to all the future products of JointedRail. The same can be said about all the vegetation artists, the speedtreez and various grasses are giving Trainz a look that I remember wishing for when I first saw the video trailer for railworks.

Of course your fine product Roland has made me stay enthralled with 2010 longer than I have stayed involved with any previous version. I loaded up railworks to look and see if I could figure out that it in fact uses DEM's without any external programs such as ReDEM, and I'm still looking at it but just haven't done a detailed search on how the process works. I remember trying it a couple of years ago and I would've had to purchase ReDEM so I quickly lost interest.

TransDem has had a long and positive track record in the Trainz community so when I did decide to purchase a DEM utility you got the business.

But really we're comparing apples to oranges in a lot of areas. Because I think one poster in this thread hit it pretty much on the mark, Trainz is a lot more like the train set my parents wouldn't let me have as a kid, and like the one I'd like to have as an adult but don't have the space to actually set up. And Railworks is more of a PC game designed around Trains.

Now they both offer a lot of the same things, external content, content creators, route building, prototypical operations etc. and in those areas cases can be made on either side depending on which camp you're in. I seem to think that Trainz can be as simple as you want or as absolutely ridiculously complex as you want. From what I've seen of railworks that's where it's going to drop the ball is in actual real world prototypical operations.

One things for sure, the derailments sure are a whole lot more fun in railworks than they are in Trainz…:hehe:

mrscsi
April 6th, 2011, 03:43 AM
After looking into the issue of DEM and railworks, I see that everything has to be in hgt format, everything I use is in Geotiff, I just checked the seamless server and it doesn't appear to offer it unless they're calling it something other than "HGT" and my naïveté is showing:hehe: so I've quickly lost interest again and will stick with what I know…

zatovisualworks
April 6th, 2011, 03:47 AM
;):hehe: Some Iberians would say again and again:

There's no such a blinder person than the one who doesn't want to see...

And preaching other beliefs has always been a hard job in sacred or convinced lands.

:hehe: Theo is having a good time teasing and preaching us and I don't feel like preaching blindfolded unfaithful ones.

Quoting and paraphrasing myself again, sorry:


There's not only one railway sim, but a a different one for every of usAnway, a good ad board for Trainz.

The paraphrasing side of Alberte :wave:

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 04:29 AM
Theokus, your screenshot illustrates in the best way the different perceptions of railway simulation. Two trains on the line? How can this be? A severe safety hazard and one of the worst scenarios in railway operation.

Apparently, for you this does not matter. Otherwise you would not have shown us this screenshot.

But that's what it is all about: Your expectation of a software that claims to simulate the railways is different to mine. And while you seem to be happy with the product, many people here think it misses on some of the essentials of the railway system - like protoytpical signalling and operation.

For me, one of the fundamental challenges of the railway is to safely operate more than one train sharing a common and limited resource, the track. A simulation software which falls short here is of no value to me.

As a loco driver/engineer in the simulation, the user experience is not confined to the train you are running, your performance also affects the operation of other trains around you. In a good simulation you can actually watch the effects on the other trains. Single track working is one of the typical scenarios here.

Visible interaction of train movements and signalling is highly dynamic. And this dynamic behaviour is one of the most fascinating aspects of railways. It does not need a professional simulation to emulate this interaction on your PC. Trainz performs quite well here.

Ok and thx!
The shot I took is only to experiment with some trains.
It's not the final track he.
I can easy adjust to two tracks.
That first train takes of in about 3 minutes and goes to a plant.
It's nice to see he slows down in a curve to the plant:)
And please don't take this too serious he ;)
I am just playing.

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 04:37 AM
Theokus, may I ask what you're doing here?? This is a Trainz Forum, and if you're so loyal to Railworks, stop annoying us with you continuos streams of annoying and smart-mouthed comments, as you won't get many people buying Railworks on a TRAINZ (With a Z) Forum
Phil, I thought the shot was wonderful, but then I realised I was looking at the sky, and not the actual content part:hehe: :hehe:

BTW, the track in that shot looks horrible, and you should really replace it with 'UK Bullhead '09' but you can't!!:hehe: :hehe:

Jamie

Jamie?
You may ask.
But do I have to answer?
I am an individual and quite calm.
It surprises me a bit about the strong reactions.
And I hope the attitude is something different in real life. We are talking
here only about a game huh. There is life after RW or Trainz, believe me.

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 04:41 AM
After looking into the issue of DEM and railworks, I see that everything has to be in hgt format, everything I use is in Geotiff, I just checked the seamless server and it doesn't appear to offer it unless they're calling it something other than "HGT" and my naïveté is showing:hehe: so I've quickly lost interest again and will stick with what I know…

If I say this here I am bad boy :hehe::hehe:

H222
April 6th, 2011, 04:42 AM
Oh I know, but please, it does get annoying having people who love Railworks on the Trainz Forums who hate trainz, and I'm sure it gets annoying on the Railworks Forums when train "patriots" come along

Jamie

mrscsi
April 6th, 2011, 04:46 AM
Jamie?
You may ask.
But do I have to answer?
I am an individual and quite calm.
It surprises me a bit about the strong reactions.
And I hope the attitude is something different in real life. We are talking
here only about a game huh. There is life after RW or Trainz, believe me.

See now you're pressing your luck, I'm actually surprised the conversation hasn't been a lot more vocal. Believe me there are thousands if not more in this community that eat sleep drink and dream Trainz.

There's a great number who take it way beyond a hobby and venture into obsession. Now of course if that's what they want to do, it doesn't affect me one way or the other. But that last sentence is enough to bring the wrath, I know because I have uttered it myself:hehe:

Of course I didn't get my Trainz fix in today, I was too busy screwing around with railworks, what a wasted afternoon:hehe:

mrscsi
April 6th, 2011, 04:49 AM
If I say this here I am bad boy :hehe::hehe:

That was actually about a third-party application, but point taken…

Now I didn't say you were a bad boy because you are sticking with what you know, I took you to task over very specific aspects, such as content manager not working, and graphics.

Now I did chide you somewhat for lack of expanding knowledge, again point taken but I'm old and tired and when I uttered those words it was at the end of a long day screwing around with railworks:cool:

mrscsi
April 6th, 2011, 04:50 AM
Oh I know, but please, it does get annoying having people who love Railworks on the Trainz Forums who hate trainz, and I'm sure it gets annoying on the Railworks Forums when train "patriots" come along

Jamie

They don't last long, they tend to get banned rather quickly over there…:hehe:

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 04:51 AM
See now you're pressing your luck, I'm actually surprised the conversation hasn't been a lot more vocal. Believe me there are thousands if not more in this community that eat sleep drink and dream Trainz.

There's a great number who take it way beyond a hobby and venture into obsession. Now of course if that's what they want to do, it doesn't affect me one way or the other. But that last sentence is enough to bring the wrath, I know because I have uttered it myself:hehe:

Of course I didn't get my Trainz fix in today, I was too busy screwing around with railworks, what a wasted afternoon:hehe:

Point taken ;)
I am glad you try to understand me :)

About "screwing" arround.
Everything becomes easy If you know how to do it he mrscsi.

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 04:53 AM
They don't last long, they tend to get banned rather quickly over there…:hehe:

Hahaha :)
I'll put in a good word (for you) ;)

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 04:56 AM
That was actually about a third-party application, but point taken…

Now I didn't say you were a bad boy because you are sticking with what you know, I took you to task over very specific aspects, such as content manager not working, and graphics.

Now I did chide you somewhat for lack of expanding knowledge, again point taken but I'm old and tired and when I uttered those words it was at the end of a long day screwing around with railworks:cool:


Well I am not a kid anymore either ;)

mrscsi
April 6th, 2011, 05:00 AM
Point taken ;)
I am glad you try to understand me :)

About "screwing" arround.
Everything becomes easy If you know how to do it he mrscsi.

Well it seems that I was really too busy capturing screenshots and playing graphics poker here in this thread to have really given it more than a cursory look.:p

And to be honest I had given it more than a cursory look about a year ago, at that time you needed a third-party application to work with DEM's.

So when I heard that was not the case, I went and looked and sure enough if you get the right kind of DEM, "supposedly" it will work. Now I haven't used strm ever when using TransDem. The servers that you get them from are rather hard to navigate and if I recall correctly, you pretty much have to know your latitude and longitude and take a guess and get the particular file you're looking for. So from that aspect, at 130 in the morning, I decided it was a wash…

With TransDem I can use Geotiff files right from the seamless server, just select the area that I want actually on a map and it goes out and gets the files and groups them together for me for download.

Really so much easier than trying to remember what my latitude and longitude is…

BLACKWATCH
April 6th, 2011, 05:04 AM
Everything looks very real to life in RailWorks, in Trainz it doesn't, however if Trainz looked like Railworks2 with the database it has how good would it be,
maybe a lesson there, if RailWorks had a much greater database for free it would leave Trainz derailed.
What type of game engine does RailWorks have
steve

Do me a favour ................... :confused:
If "Everything looks very real to life in RailWorks", then we all live in plastic barbie & ken land. :hehe:

Try doing some railway photography & compare your prints against your computer screen, the difference is vast.

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 05:43 AM
Oh I know, but please, it does get annoying having people who love Railworks on the Trainz Forums who hate trainz, and I'm sure it gets annoying on the Railworks Forums when train "patriots" come along

Jamie

Jamie, please; I do not hate anything :)
And I play other games too.
I did start years ago with "MicroProse" (Sid Meyer and co)
and Sierra On-Line (Ken Williams and Roberta)
I have to look here and count my things but I have everything they did release.

And I have TrainZ Classics 1 & 2, TS2009 and TS2010 (and MSTS).
From day 1, Rail Simulator was better looking in graphics display.
This was important for me.
I don't know what and how do you think, I don't know you he, but good
looks gets my attention;)
Then, I am getting more interest and I do a step further.
I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.

Ok, now things change for the better with TS2010.
The looks are going to be better ;)
Next we need is a easy-er way to make a real live route.
With RailWorks it is...

To make a long story a short one: I really look forward here for somebody
who could explain me step by step how to make a real live route:)

In RW it is (again and sorry) really easy ;)
You need only:
- Google Earth > placing markers for the layout of the track or some interesting other things.
- Office Calc > converting some numbers and stuff.
- Dem > layout of the terrain
And they are all free.

IF you want it, use RWDecal.
Also to use with Google Earth.
Then you are able to get everything you need to layout the route
and you see where to place scenery, rivers etc. etc.
With this program and the Dem you are ready to go:)

NikkiA
April 6th, 2011, 05:51 AM
Do me a favour ................... :confused:
If "Everything looks very real to life in RailWorks", then we all live in plastic barbie & ken land. :hehe:

Try doing some railway photography & compare your prints against your computer screen, the difference is vast.


Indeed.

The only visual advantages that RW has are the real-time shadows, shaders, and the fact that the texture style of most objects is consistant.

Why are they consistant? Because there is essentially only one source for the vast majority of the scenary (that'd be Kuju, not RSDL), and it was done in a consistant manner.

The shaders are a mixed bag, yes, they get away from the 'OpenGL plastic' that many complain about trainz having (it's a general thing for many games/projects that start with OpenGL, the OpenGL pipeline tends to result in a very distinctive texturing style that has a bit of a 'toy story' fakeness to it), but on the other hand, the shaders mean that all of the locomotives have the same stupid orange-peel look to their metal bodies, and getting realistic weathering is FAR harder than a good trainz asset with AO'ed textures.

The shadows are a legitimate advantage, and one that Auran/N3V would do well to try and replicate - it would make asset creation slightly easier to not have to worry about supplying shadow meshes too.

As for gameplay advantages, the only ones I miss are manual coupling (sorry Auran, but having auto-coupling on UK stock is generally 'just wrong') and the multiple view modes.

It'd be nice to have better support for non-electric transmission in trainz too, some of the diesel-hydraulics had driver-controlled gearboxes, and of course there are the diesel-mechanicals and petrol-mechanical driven systems too. This could be implemented with more scriptable control over the engine spec plus the addition of some extra scriptable keyboard commands - it wouldn't need to be a huge change to the core of Trainz.

The Railworks 'input mapper' system allows for the kind of flexibility we need, but the mighty russians have proven that you can do effective tap changers purely in script, if only they could be better controlled by the keyboard rather than the mouse...

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 05:52 AM
Well it seems that I was really too busy capturing screenshots and playing graphics poker here in this thread to have really given it more than a cursory look.:p

And to be honest I had given it more than a cursory look about a year ago, at that time you needed a third-party application to work with DEM's.

So when I heard that was not the case, I went and looked and sure enough if you get the right kind of DEM, "supposedly" it will work. Now I haven't used strm ever when using TransDem. The servers that you get them from are rather hard to navigate and if I recall correctly, you pretty much have to know your latitude and longitude and take a guess and get the particular file you're looking for. So from that aspect, at 130 in the morning, I decided it was a wash…

With TransDem I can use Geotiff files right from the seamless server, just select the area that I want actually on a map and it goes out and gets the files and groups them together for me for download.

Really so much easier than trying to remember what my latitude and longitude is…

Aha and ok!
When I make a route in the UK I take it all at once.
All the DEM (strm) for the UK goes in RW.
And IF you want: use RWdecal.
http://www.rwdecal.co.uk/
With those decals you get all at once too, from track to every bit of scenery.
And you don't have to take care of latitude and longitude:)

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 06:07 AM
Do me a favour ................... :confused:
If "Everything looks very real to life in RailWorks", then we all live in plastic barbie & ken land. :hehe:

Try doing some railway photography & compare your prints against your computer screen, the difference is vast.

You did ask for it ;)
http://www.theokus.be/theo4.jpg

Le Belge > The Belgium One > free translation he.
In Belgium we had the first train ever on the main land...
The line was from Mechelen tot Brussels.

zatovisualworks
April 6th, 2011, 06:14 AM
:hehe: I think that NV3VRFa1l should charge Theo with an extra FCFUT (First Class Forum User Ticket) since he's really having a great time by teasing and preaching us with fallacies! Theo, please, don't be mean and pay that extra fee to NV3RFa1lers. Your evident over-enjoyment here must be charged. :p

You're welcome, NV3RFa1lers, no need to thank for the idea. :p

The fair dealing side of Alberte :wave:

===================================

BTW, yes, RW sometimes is a remembrance of B&W TV.:D

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 06:19 AM
:hehe: I think that NV3VRFa1l should charge Theo with an extra FCFUT (First Class Forum User Ticket) since he's really having a great time by teasing and preaching us with fallacies! Theo, please, don't be mean and pay that extra fee to NV3RFa1lers. Your evident over-enjoyment here must be charged. :p
You're welcome, NV3RFa1lers, no need to thank for the idea. :p

The fair dealing side of Alberte :wave:

Gracias. Yo te recuerdo en mis oraciones. ;)

TRam__
April 6th, 2011, 06:31 AM
It'd be nice to have better support for non-electric transmission in trainz too, some of the diesel-hydraulics had driver-controlled gearboxes, and of course there are the diesel-mechanicals and petrol-mechanical driven systems too. This could be implemented with more scriptable control over the engine spec plus the addition of some extra scriptable keyboard commands - it wouldn't need to be a huge change to the core of Trainz.It's already possible. Using of Vehicle.SetMaximumTractiveEffort(float maxTE) allows you directly set the traction force (if it is less then written in engine setting). To avoid the wheelspin sound use Vehicle.SetWheelslipTractionMultiplier(1.0) .

So that's wide used in some locomotives with start/stop of diesels. And for an electric locomotive with no-notch control system. And is already possible to introduce even clutch pedal of petrol-mechanical vehicles :cool: . But of cause it demands a mathematic model of engine and transmission.

geophil
April 6th, 2011, 06:42 AM
Aha and ok!
When I make a route in the UK I take it all at once.
All the DEM (strm) for the UK goes in RW.
And IF you want: use RWdecal.
http://www.rwdecal.co.uk/
With those decals you get all at once too, from track to every bit of scenery.
And you don't have to take care of latitude and longitude:)
Without going into detail, RS/RW built-in and 3rd party geo data tools provide basic solutions for basic needs. That's ok. Different market - different approach.

mezzoprezzo
April 6th, 2011, 07:02 AM
Everything looks very real to life in RailWorks, in Trainz it doesn't, ~snip~

Hi Steve.

I cannot agree with that statement.

Here’s a shot of the real deal and part of one of my routes as modelled in Trainz. I’m quite pleased with the result which, to me, looks and feels real. The hard work was in the research and painstaking positioning of everything. The Trainz software made it as effortless as it could be and I enjoyed every minute of construction. You see what you get as you lay down every piece of track and asset in Trainz. The Railworks spline laying is really weird.

This isn’t the best of examples either. There are plenty of route builders who are way ahead of me!

How about you posting an equivalent Railworks comparison?

Cheers
Casper
:)


http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5503/gecamogli45.jpg

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6200/gecamoglimodelled45.jpg
Imageshack

zatovisualworks
April 6th, 2011, 07:21 AM
Gracias. Yo te recuerdo en mis oraciones. ;)

;) Quizás mis descendientes te lo agradezcan algun día... :hehe:

The not-so-saintlike side of Alberte :wave:

Mouse84
April 6th, 2011, 07:25 AM
Why does this RW garbage keeping coming to the Trainz forum?

philskene
April 6th, 2011, 07:36 AM
Because this is the only place in the whole Universe where its many deficiencies can be discussed.

On the other sites the Mods stamp out any critical comments almost immediately.

Beattie
April 6th, 2011, 08:00 AM
Anyone ever thought that railworks was snailworks:hehe:

Euphod
April 6th, 2011, 09:24 AM
Here’s a shot of the real deal and part of one of my routes as modelled in Trainz.

There must be something wrong with my Surveyor Module Casper, it doesn't work that well for me!:o

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 02:35 PM
Hi Steve.

I cannot agree with that statement.

Here’s a shot of the real deal and part of one of my routes as modelled in Trainz. I’m quite pleased with the result which, to me, looks and feels real. The hard work was in the research and painstaking positioning of everything. The Trainz software made it as effortless as it could be and I enjoyed every minute of construction. You see what you get as you lay down every piece of track and asset in Trainz. The Railworks spline laying is really weird.

This isn’t the best of examples either. There are plenty of route builders who are way ahead of me!

How about you posting an equivalent Railworks comparison?

Cheers
Casper
:)

Imageshack

Casper.... damxxx good job!

mezzoprezzo
April 6th, 2011, 03:05 PM
Thanks guys!

Still waiting for a response to the challenge. It's gone very quiet.:D

I'll take the opportunity to re-iterate the relative ease with which Surveyor allows construction in Trainz (done in my routes without DEM - all "hand raised").

I did forget to thank all of the great creators for the time and effort they have put in, making all of the wonderful assets.

It's always a pleasure when placing the models to "Fly" around them, close up, and wonder at the time effort and research that has gone into constructing them. The endless hours spent on all of this stuff is truly appreciated.

It would appear that Railworks have been left far behind in building a community of enthusiasts prepared to share in this way. After the software, the sharing of assets has to be the greatest contribution to the advancement of Trainz.

Cheers
Casper
:)

zatovisualworks
April 6th, 2011, 03:11 PM
There must be something wrong with my Surveyor Module Casper, it doesn't work that well for me!:o

Mine sometimes coughs... I better try to get some pills from the Casper's and Others' Pharmacy... ;):D I was said they heal...

The spring cough cough side of Alberte :wave:

Vern
April 6th, 2011, 03:21 PM
It would appear that Railworks have been left far behind in building a community of enthusiasts prepared to share in this way. After the software, the sharing of assets has to be the greatest contribution to the advancement of Trainz.



Indeed it is the community spirit which helped the hobby to grow even back in the days prior to Trainz and MSTS. There was a pooling of knowledge and people worked together to solve problems and raise the bar.

Now I'm not anti-payware having bought a few items for Trainz over the years, but it saddens me when I look at UKTS tonight and see the announcement of a payware scenario pack for Edinburgh to Glasgow. This is the money culture gone mad, to me. I can understand charging for a well finished route or even a good quality rolling stock pack, but for a bunch of activities... Time was when people would have been proud to share that for free. I know they can be time consuming to create and I guess fools and their money can be easily parted etc., but that really is pushing micro payware culture to the limits.

Maybe it's me, perhaps I need to start thinking in different terms, I'm living in the past etc. but the day I pay for a scenario pack would be a sorry one indeed.

Edit: Just looked at the AP site... It's £5.00 for six scenarios and you need a load of other payware to run them.

I'll be putting the money towards TS2012 instead...

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 04:10 PM
Indeed it is the community spirit which helped the hobby to grow even back in the days prior to Trainz and MSTS. There was a pooling of knowledge and people worked together to solve problems and raise the bar.

Now I'm not anti-payware having bought a few items for Trainz over the years, but it saddens me when I look at UKTS tonight and see the announcement of a payware scenario pack for Edinburgh to Glasgow. This is the money culture gone mad, to me. I can understand charging for a well finished route or even a good quality rolling stock pack, but for a bunch of activities... Time was when people would have been proud to share that for free. I know they can be time consuming to create and I guess fools and their money can be easily parted etc., but that really is pushing micro payware culture to the limits.

Maybe it's me, perhaps I need to start thinking in different terms, I'm living in the past etc. but the day I pay for a scenario pack would be a sorry one indeed.

Edit: Just looked at the AP site... It's £5.00 for six scenarios and you need a load of other payware to run them.

I'll be putting the money towards TS2012 instead...

Vern,

It is a choice that everyone must make for themselves.
You can buy something or not.
It surprises me time and again that "huge noise" about a few pounds.
I do not buy anything.
Where does this hatred comes from when talking about money?
It would clearly be different when you had to buy but no one is forcing you to buy.
Why should everything be free?

We live in a free world and no one is obliged to do anything.
Wether we like it or not ;)

On the other hand I have the utmost respect for a community that does something for each other and for free. And I see that here but also in RW.

Vern
April 6th, 2011, 04:14 PM
Quite right, I do have freedom of choice and it has nothing to do with hatred.

I renewed my annual DLS FCT for @£12.00 this afternoon which is money well spent.

I will not be pay £5.00 for a small collection of scenarios which I would probably play once and forget.

jointedrail
April 6th, 2011, 04:20 PM
Why does this RW garbage keeping coming to the Trainz forum?


Thank you!

Mike

mrscsi
April 6th, 2011, 04:22 PM
Well I see that even after coming out of my coma this dead horse is still being beaten. Upon awakening from my coma I stumbled out and quickly made a cup of espresso and fired up the computer.

I then decided to see what was at the end of the rainbow in railworks Barstow-San Bernardino. So I switched the monitor over to the 46 inch Sony, fired up railworks and took a sip of espresso.

After 15 min. and 12 or so miles I just couldn't take it any longer. So I guess I'll probably never see San Bernardino in railworks, because the absolute monotonic sound was driving me nuts…

Now I know the sound of Trainz isn't a whole lot better, but at least you can hear it. I wasn't sure whether I was going deaf or my speakers were going bad, that is until I heard a clack-clack that was so loud it woke me up proper.

For that sound to be as loud as it was in Trainz the engine noise would have shaken this place to the ground, but I could still barely hear it in railworks.

And then there was all this talk about content manager, while I'm going to assume that package manager and packager does the same thing (or tries to) in railworks. If so I didn't see anything absolutely stellar in either that would make me want to run right out and remove Trainz from my hard drive forever…

I like to go in and take an asset that may be really cool but may not do exactly what I want or may not look exactly like I want, at least half the fun for me anyway is taking that asset and modifying it (FOR MY OWN USE) and re-skinning it and making it look and act the way I want it to.

Now I don't know if that's possible in railworks, I approached it the same way I approached Trainz, clicking and right clicking and exploring. I didn't see anything in railworks on a right-click menu that said "open for edit" or "open in content creator plus" or anything equivalent.

The way I taught myself how to use content creator plus was simply trial and error, clone an asset, open the clone and start modifying stuff and going out and looking at it in surveyor or driver and seeing the results. Now I won't try to claim that I am God's gift to content modifiers, I learn new stuff each and every day, it's what keeps me doing it…

I may just be getting older, and don't have the patience to sit down and explore like I did in Trainz when content manager and CCP came on the scene, maybe that's it. But I just didn't see anything I could recognize that was intuitive or inviting exploration in railworks like there was in content manager.

But I'm not going to fault anyone for their opinions, if they like railworks better than Trainz, that's their itch. But I will feel inclined to respond to posts that tend to be misleading about Trainz versus railworks, in the process I hope to learn some things. At least we're not like they are over on most of the railworks forums, completely deaf to any dissenting views…:hehe:

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 04:23 PM
Quite right, I do have freedom of choice and it has nothing to do with hatred.

I renewed my annual DLS FCT for @£12.00 this afternoon which is money well spent.

I will not be pay £5.00 for a small collection of scenarios which I would probably play once and forget.

I totally agree ;)

NikkiA
April 6th, 2011, 04:46 PM
Now I don't know if that's possible in railworks, I approached it the same way I approached Trainz, clicking and right clicking and exploring. I didn't see anything in railworks on a right-click menu that said "open for edit" or "open in content creator plus" or anything equivalent.

You need to use a third party (payware for this function) tool (usually RW_Tools) to convert the textures to something editable. But even then, a lot of the textures are in some weird format that doesn't convert right (eg, the original class 37 is like this - almost all, if not all, 3rd party reskins of class 37s are from the payware class 37 that came out shortly after RW) or is simply mapped in a way that just isn't conducive to reskinning.

If you're lucky and the texture converts properly, and is mapped well, then it's not really much more difficult than trainz reskins. The only major caveat is that the use of DirectX shaders mean that the texture isn't the only determining factor for how a specific area of the texture looks on the model.

However, the fact that RW_Tools is required to do this kind of thing means that there is a payware barrier of entry (unless you were lucky/forethoughtful and grabbed the license that Mike was giving away in memory of his deceased dog...) to personal reskinning- something that trainz doesn't have. The cost isn't high, but it is non-zero, and can be sigificant to someone that doesn't have disposable income.

theokus
April 6th, 2011, 04:48 PM
I then decided to see what was at the end of the rainbow in railworks Barstow-San Bernardino. So I switched the monitor over to the 46 inch Sony, fired up railworks and took a sip of espresso.

…:hehe:

I drink Senseo:hehe::hehe:

mrscsi
April 6th, 2011, 05:38 PM
I drink Senseo:hehe::hehe:

I drink Keurig... So once again I saw you and raised you:hehe:

steve123
April 6th, 2011, 05:52 PM
It is just my opinion that RailWorks looks better ,therefore competition between companies can only be a benefit to all trainer's,
really i don't care which one is the best because it is to our advantage that they compete to be the best .
steve

Mouse84
April 6th, 2011, 05:53 PM
Railworks is great if you want rail simulation,

I think that is comical. I run trains for a living and have for many years. I find no part of RW physics to be realistic. You get physics that are closer to real life, using cab mode in Trainz.

aardvark1
April 6th, 2011, 06:04 PM
Mouse I would like to ask you 2 questions as a train engineer.

Do you look at all the scenery while driving?

In your cab, how far ahead can you see?

Thanks

rjhowie
April 6th, 2011, 06:09 PM
Bemusing that Forest Runner earlier smacked my hand for mis-understanding this thread. Can I remind him that every time (!) RW comes up here as a thread it runs into the same comparison stuff and rights and wrongs and everything in between? If you are going to discuss two railway simulators to see which is best then fine. No problem with that at all. However I don't see why we have to have a new thread time after time going on about the same dashed comparisons? You can doctor it up as much as liked but it is yet another rehash of the same.

When the first thread died someone after a short gap created another - then anotherafter that and so on. Opinions have been aired my point is why does it need to be constantly re-morphed into the same over and over. How many times do we have to get this ground hog day?! Thisnis worse than watching Ricky Gervais (!).

mrscsi
April 6th, 2011, 06:44 PM
Bemusing that Forest Runner earlier smacked my hand for mis-understanding this thread. Can I remind him that every time (!) RW comes up here as a thread it runs into the same comparison stuff and rights and wrongs and everything in between? If you are going to discuss two railway simulators to see which is best then fine. No problem with that at all. However I don't see why we have to have a new thread time after time going on about the same dashed comparisons? You can doctor it up as much as liked but it is yet another rehash of the same.

When the first thread died someone after a short gap created another - then anotherafter that and so on. Opinions have been aired my point is why does it need to be constantly re-morphed into the same over and over. How many times do we have to get this ground hog day?! Thisnis worse than watching Ricky Gervais (!).

Actually I found it (at least this time) a little amusing. The original poster has a sense of humor and didn't have his heels dug in refusing to even acknowledge anything contrary to his beliefs.

I've actually learned a few things and I got my old copy of railworks out and give it another cursory look (don't worry I'm not going to become a convert anytime soon):hehe:

We wandered off topic a few times in this thread and it's actually been very active. Maybe we need to have more discussions like these, it actually provided a break from re-skinning over 100 containers, that I so desperately needed because my eyes were starting to bleed in Photoshop:hehe:

Pendolino
April 7th, 2011, 05:34 AM
Actually I found it (at least this time) a little amusing. The original poster has a sense of humor and didn't have his heels dug in refusing to even acknowledge anything contrary to his beliefs.

Perhaps he came here to post after having been banned from RW forums for lack of zeal... as far I know RW forums and fans (and here in Italy they are exactly like UK ones) anything less than blind faith in RW is considered high treason... :D :D :D

Anyway, he is the first one I see admitting that RW has some shortcomings (even if he doesn't care about them :D :D :D ).

theokus
April 7th, 2011, 05:53 AM
Perhaps he came here to post after having been banned from RW forums for lack of zeal... as far I know RW forums and fans (and here in Italy they are exactly like UK ones) anything less than blind faith in RW is considered high treason... :D :D :D

Anyway, he is the first one I see admitting that RW has some shortcomings (even if he doesn't care about them :D :D :D ).

Marinaaa, Marinaaa, Marinaa :)
(Rocco Granata)
Vooolaaare:hehe::hehe:

(sorry - Perdonami.)

mrscsi
April 7th, 2011, 06:20 AM
Perhaps he came here to post after having been banned from RW forums for lack of zeal... as far I know RW forums and fans (and here in Italy they are exactly like UK ones) anything less than blind faith in RW is considered high treason... :D :D :D

Anyway, he is the first one I see admitting that RW has some shortcomings (even if he doesn't care about them :D :D :D ).

I was actually starting to wonder that myself. He does tend to swing back and forth and seems to have quite a bit of fun doing it. I get the feeling sometimes he is trying to lure out the zealots and he still may succeed:hehe:

I don't think I'm going to be converting to railworks anytime soon, I'm having way too much fun re-skinning all of Ocemy's containers from his new ContZ pack. When I'm done doing those I'll finish modifying the container yard to load the new reskinned containers.

Of course the reason I'm doing this has nothing to do with any kind of flaw with Ocemy's fine piece of payware, it's just that I want to use different well cars than what it is intended to use which require different containers than what he created his fine piece of payware for.

An endeavor I might add that would almost be impossible without third-party tools in railworks:hehe:

In Trainz it's just as easy as loading it up in CCP and editing to your hearts content…

Mouse84
April 7th, 2011, 07:06 AM
Mouse I would like to ask you 2 questions as a train engineer.

Do you look at all the scenery while driving?

In your cab, how far ahead can you see?

Thanks

Yes, I'm always looking around while running, especially on a nice warm day when the girls are wearing shorts.

It depends on the terrain and the conditions. Running out across Ohio and Indiana you can see for a mile or more during the day. At night you can see even farther looking at the lights. I remember the first time, running an intermodal train toward Chicago at 60 mph and watching the marker on the train I'm following, flash and he was at least 4 or 5 miles ahead of me.

theokus
April 7th, 2011, 07:06 AM
I am working on a route, not an existing one.
Made a rocky landscape, a lake, put some bridges in it
and did some landscaping (textures, trees, people and other scenery).

You have to know that my real hobby is photography ;)
AND I use both: Nikon and Canon :hehe:

eduard
April 7th, 2011, 07:07 AM
my opinion of railworks 2 : i've played this game for 2 weeks now, i really really really like it, i like the F3 window below wich shows you the next station, the graphics are good, all goes smooth and i finally can stop at a station on time.

the instructions you get are readable and short. ( fonts in trainz are a bit small , and to much text to read)
there are also enough freeware routes available via uktrainsim.com ( you have to pay for a subsription).

other then that, i like trainz too, i have them all and will buy the next version too when it comes out.

Eduard.

ocala
April 7th, 2011, 08:14 AM
Hi all, ive seen Railworks2 on the net, i dont know anything about it, but trainz is kind of annoying me, im wondering what everyones opinion on Railworks2 is???

I have both games. "Annoying" is part of the fun. Buy it!

zatovisualworks
April 7th, 2011, 08:34 AM
We wandered off topic a few times in this thread and it's actually been very active. Maybe we need to have more discussions like these, it actually provided a break from re-skinning over 100 containers, that I so desperately needed because my eyes were starting to bleed in Photoshop:hehe:

Hi my dear retired guy,

;) You're one of the few (-fortunately increasing since some are converting to the funny side of playing just a game and quitting freakish couch train driving-) who undestand the true amusing and instructive use of this kind of forums. That's my kind, with the permisision of its owners, of course. :Y:

The well-done said side of Alberte :wave:

BLACKWATCH
April 7th, 2011, 05:21 PM
You have to know that my real hobby is photography ;)
AND I use both: Nikon and Canon :hehe:

My hobby is also photography, I used to use Pentax when I first started, but changed over to the Olympus OM system. :)

steve123
April 7th, 2011, 05:31 PM
After using RailWorks for a little while i do so retract my statement a few pages back as i really don't think that RailWorks is as flexible as Trainz and also it doesn't give the user anywhere near the same amount of options .
In some area's the video looks good but understanding that there is nowhere near the amount of intense content that Trainz has on their routes and in spots the video is jerky.
So Trainz is the big winner by far .
My computer overclocked over cooked and over baked and has all the gear
so the computer is not a factor in how the 2 games compared
Trainz wins hands down
steve

theokus
April 7th, 2011, 05:38 PM
My hobby is also photography, I used to use Pentax when I first started, but changed over to the Olympus OM system. :)

Good choise too :)

theokus
April 7th, 2011, 05:42 PM
After using RailWorks for a little while i do so retract my statements a few pages back as i really don't think that RailWorks is as flexible as Trainz and also it doesn't give the user anywhere near the same amount of option .
In some area's the video looks good but understanding that there is nowhere near the amount of intense content that has on there routes and still in spots the video is jerky.
So Trainz is the big winner by far .
My computer overclocked over cooked and over baked and has all the gear
so the computer is not a factor in how the 2 games compared
Trainz wins hands down
steve

You are right: RW has some "stutter". The graphic load is less in Trainz... I do not overclock or over coock :) My pc is fast enough.

rjhowie
April 7th, 2011, 08:02 PM
Must admit I did chuckle when someone commented they could do with more of these discussions. Oh really?! Where has he been considering this is around the fifth reincarnation? (!).However I must in the terms of wide opinion accept that the repeated repeats of what becomes mundane is part of the chat. The need to constantly bring such back is beyond my reasonable gey cells (thanks toe Hercule Poiret). After the third thread I sighed with relief but I did so too soon!

steve123
April 7th, 2011, 08:34 PM
Hi rjhowie2,however i would like to point out you have shown your interest in the thread by commenting and reading the thread ,,,hum
steve

mrscsi
April 7th, 2011, 09:08 PM
Must admit I did chuckle when someone commented they could do with more of these discussions. Oh really?! Where has he been considering this is around the fifth reincarnation? (!).However I must in the terms of wide opinion accept that the repeated repeats of what becomes mundane is part of the chat. The need to constantly bring such back is beyond my reasonable gey cells (thanks toe Hercule Poiret). After the third thread I sighed with relief but I did so too soon!

Well what I meant was simple, way too many threads seem to get into "I know better than you do" or "this is a serious conversation" or "railworks is better than Trainz or vice versa" or "fill-in the blank here."

This could have spiraled into that type of thread, but it remained rather lighthearted with give-and-take on both sides.

As someone who's been around this forum for very long time (and one who has left multiple times over the years) it's nice to see a thread that can go back and forth, veer off-topic occasionally, impart information on both sides, and just be a little fun, without having thread killers come in and complain, whoops too late:hehe:

I'm sorry if the topic is one that you get tired reading. Believe me there are plenty of topics that I get tired of seeing, I just ignore them and go on.

Some are like train wrecks however and you just can't resist taking a look.

In essence I don't know what to tell you, you don't like the topic, you don't have to come in…

sparky15
April 7th, 2011, 10:15 PM
I own RailSimulator, MSTS and Trainz.
For route building, I prefer Trainz. RS is a close second because I like the track tools, short of the split and weld game. I wish Trainz would pick up some of the track aspects of RS. 10 years and we still don't have decent turnouts? It's a train simulator. You wold think tracks would be important. How about the ability to lay multiple track splines at a correct offset with decent curve tools? I like that feature in RS.
Operationally, it's a toss up with Trainz and MSTS. I like the AI in Trainz, but use it more for a railroad simulator. Kind of cool to build routes I could only dream of and set up complex operating sessions. For actual (simulator wise) running, I still like MSTS. Just something about it I like. The route editor is a mess and making a scenario is a pain. Who wants to run something you spent days making? Still, scenarios from others are fun in it.
As far as "Why RW?". I think it's great to talk about them all. I would like to see the track tools from RW into Trainz. Wish they would have went that route before content. Graphics wise, TRS2006 had the ability to look every bit as good as RW. (Mezzoprezzo's screenshots bear that out) I just wish Trainz would address the track issues at this time. Still find the two a wash graphics wise with the right content
I spend my free time equal with Trainz and MSTS for different reasons. Build the perfect model route and operate it in Trainz, MSTS for it's own reasons. Again, my personal tastes. I think if Trainz could get the track tools and turnouts straightened out, they could take up the majority of the train sim community.
Oh, and Blackwatch, another OLY fan. E3, 14-54, 50-200 and EC14. Need to sell some Canon gear for a 150 2.0. Anyone need a 40D and 24-105L?

Dave......

Vern
April 8th, 2011, 02:43 AM
+1 Dave, +1.

H222
April 8th, 2011, 04:17 AM
Actually, the first calm, and not aggressive poster who plays and defends RW, it Theo, even if his game is wrong

Jamie

socalwb909
April 8th, 2011, 04:54 AM
But hey it's been fun but I will leave you with these...
http://ryomag.com/td/2.jpg
http://ryomag.com/td/3.jpg
http://ryomag.com/td/4.jpg


-I don't like quoting pictures, but these are AwEsOmE!!! anyway!

-Joe

geophil
April 8th, 2011, 05:01 AM
How about the ability to lay multiple track splines at a correct offset with decent curve tools? I like that feature in RS.

RS/RW can't deny its predecessor MSTS, including track geometry. The prototype uses straights, circular arcs and transition curves (easements, sprials, clothoids). Transition curves are the challenge. And here the makers of RS quickly gave up. Lack of expertise, lack of skill? I don't know. The main difference to MSTS from a geometry point of view seems that you no longer have do deal with the preset kit of radii.

The initial approach in RS towards transition curves was there, but integration probably turned out to be too difficult and the concept sank into oblivion. Reminds me of Zusi1 (more eye candy in RS/RW, though). But Zusi1 already had cant.

Trainz cunningly avoided to fiddle about with those painful and laborious transition curves by using splines instead. Now, without proper understanding of spline behaviour, track geometry in Trainz can become an ugly mess. However, for the more experienced track layer, the spline can approximate any geometry, even a clothoid. OK, Trainz doesn't have cant either, and the generic turnouts don't look appealing at all.

But - and this shows the power of splines - you can take any prototype track layout plan (drawn to scale) and transfer it 1:1 to Trainz, even automatically.

Pendolino
April 8th, 2011, 06:46 AM
But - and this shows the power of splines - you can take any prototype track layout plan (drawn to scale) and transfer it 1:1 to Trainz, even automatically.

:eek: How can you do that? I am only aware of an experimental software by RPearson to import CadRail files into Trainz, but as far as I know it was never released... unfortunately.

mrscsi
April 8th, 2011, 07:21 AM
:eek: How can you do that? I am only aware of an experimental software by RPearson to import CadRail files into Trainz, but as far as I know it was never released... unfortunately.

TransDem will put any spine in for you automatically, if you have a polyline defined you can make as many layers in 2010 as you want you can do one for rail, one for roadway, one for Rivers, one for fence, one for power lines and on and on and on, if it's a spline TransDem will put it in the map automatically…

geophil
April 8th, 2011, 07:28 AM
:eek: How can you do that? I am only aware of an experimental software by RPearson to import CadRail files into Trainz, but as far as I know it was never released... unfortunately.

I have implemented this in TransDEM, probably similar to what RPearson did (we communicated about this here in the forum a few years ago).

The precondition: You have the track geometry available in 3D coordinates, in a geo coordinate system known to TransDEM, including height.

From my website: Image: Arnsberg, Germany, 3D track geometry created in Zusi and transferred to Trainz by TransDEM (http://www.rolandziegler.de/StreckeUndLandschaft/images/Hilltown3.jpg)

hminky
April 8th, 2011, 07:29 AM
http://wiki.urbandead.com/images/4/45/Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg

Disclaimer: No, it isn't a dead horse, they aren't beating a horse, the guy is photoshopped

Harold

hminky
April 8th, 2011, 10:28 AM
I prefer MSTS run from within the latest OpenRails beta to RW2.

Much more satisfying, realism wise.

Even though the physics and AI operation, are at a very early stage of development.

IKB.
Open Rails make MSTS fun to operate. If you want to operate REAL North American Routes it is the only way to go. The Activity Generator from Skyline makes it possible to have unlimited activities.

Too bad it is hampered by the MSTS Route Editor "Black Arts". But then again people create massive REAL routes with the MSTS Route Editor.

The MSTS graphics are as good as those in most of the routes provided in TS2010.

Harold

zatovisualworks
April 8th, 2011, 10:57 AM
sorry to have upset a few people by "starting yet another thread" on this topic..... I had never heard of Railworks until yesterday and just thought that people who wanted to help me with a comparison would reply to the thread, and people who were sick of reading threads like this would just skip over it rather than enter the thread they are sick of to comment about being sick of those threads.... it wasnt my intention to annoy people, i was just looking for some friendly help.....
thanx so much to all of you who have given me such a great deal of information...... I think i might buy it and have a look based on a few of those replies..... i just might not go crazy with the add-ons until im sure i like it
:)

:hehe: But the party goes on... ;) http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/energizer-smileys-51935/band.gif

This reminds me of "We Didn't Start The Fire" by Billy Joel... :hehe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g

Me neither... ;)

The ever-musical side of Alberte :wave:

zatovisualworks
April 8th, 2011, 11:36 AM
someone didn't set fire to him.

:hehe::hehe::hehe:... And many others... with whole lotta love from Alberte's bluesy side. :wave:

Let's keep the nobodyknowswhy party goin' on... with no communications breakdown.

http://centros.edu.xunta.es/iesdocastro/wp-content/plugins/simple-forum/avatars/1243458611.png

[Out I'm vanishing again]

rjhowie
April 8th, 2011, 08:07 PM
Of course I don't have to come in but I pays my money I takes my chances so to speak. I don't want to appear overly intellectual but I do have a right to query why it is found neccessary to keep bringing up the comparison principle over and over again. We are not so much talking about internal Trainz stuff but what is good or bad about RW v Trainz. It goes without saying that if comparing two sims and someone keeps wanting to start a new thread you are just going over the same comparisons. Might give someone a pleasure to raise a thread but the same one all the time? There is a want about.

FlyingScottmond
April 8th, 2011, 08:44 PM
I dont really know why a company would make a railsim when there is already a monopoly on railsims by Auran. (I know MSTS is very large aswell but is dwarfed by Trainz ín all forms)

Alco_P-A
April 8th, 2011, 08:57 PM
Buy RW2 no matter what people may say about it good or bad. Your choice is the only one that counts. It's a good sim and you will like it. As far as the cost of add on stuff wait till they put stuff on sale and look for the FREE stuff they put on their site also. Don't buy everything they put out. I specialize in North American content be it for Trainz or RW2. I've spent alot of money on payware stuff for both of them because I like a variety of train stuff in the game. Some people may think that spending $150.00 for TS12 is stupid,but if I like a game money is no object and the key to life is to enjoy it. If you're a person that likes train sims then by all means buy as many as you can and enjoy them all and life. I say raise the glasses and Happy Trainzing to one and all!
:) Alco_P-A
www.bigboytrainsandhobbies.com (http://www.bigboytrainsandhobbies.com)

sparky15
April 8th, 2011, 09:21 PM
I dont really know why a company would make a railsim when there is already a monopoly on railsims by Auran. (I know MSTS is very large aswell but is dwarfed by Trainz ín all forms)

Trainz is a great program. MSTS has quite a long list of content and followers as well. Open Rails is about to expand all that. There is no monopoly in train sims. Get a copy of MSTS and go digging for what is out there. Some amazing stuff given the game limitations and age. Those guys still refuse to accept Auran or RW and continue on with the program. It is all third party now, developers left it years ago.

I prefer some operations in MSTS over Trainz to this day. They share equal time with me. Says a lot about the community.

Dave.......

Vern
April 14th, 2011, 04:19 PM
A slight bump, but worth mentioning as I am now suffering from it.

If, for any reason, Steam malfunctions it means you cannot open Railworks. This is currently an issue on the laptop where I uninstalled RW, together with Steam then relented and tried to reinstall. Unfortunately there is a process called "SteamGuard" which for reasons best known to Valve is flagging it up as new hardware and requires an unlock code to be input. Except that each time they send me a code, Steam is rejecting it as "not quite right" despite me entering the sequence correctly.

So Railworks won't run on the laptop where I do development and thus far haven't replied to my support request. The loss will hopefully be Trainz' gain as I dust off dormant projects in TS2010 for another look. I shall be uninstalling what there is of RW and Steam on the laptop tomorrow and leaving it off. Take that, RSC. The space will come in handy for TS12 when I get round to ordering it.

A cautionary tale but one also relevant to Trainz users as N3V sell a version through Steam. My advice - leave well alone and buy direct from N3V. Steam ain't worth the hassle.

mrscsi
April 14th, 2011, 04:22 PM
A slight bump, but worth mentioning as I am now suffering from it.

If, for any reason, Steam malfunctions it means you cannot open Railworks. This is currently an issue on the laptop where I uninstalled RW, together with Steam then relented and tried to reinstall. Unfortunately there is a process called "SteamGuard" which for reasons best known to Valve is flagging it up as new hardware and requires an unlock code to be input. Except that each time they send me a code, Steam is rejecting it as "not quite right" despite me entering the sequence correctly.

So Railworks won't run on the laptop where I do development and thus far haven't replied to my support request. The loss will hopefully be Trainz' gain as I dust off dormant projects in TS2010 for another look. I shall be uninstalling what there is of RW and Steam on the laptop tomorrow and leaving it off. Take that, RSC. The space will come in handy for TS12 when I get round to ordering it.

A cautionary tale but one also relevant to Trainz users as N3V sell a version through Steam. My advice - leave well alone and buy direct from N3V. Steam ain't worth the hassle.

I got two free games with my video card, both were on steam. Neither are installed on my computer nor will they be. I realized early on that dealing with steam could be a very arduous situation. Although there are "hacked" DLL files floating all over the Internet that claim to solve that issue, I don't know if I would trust any. I think you're right in just removing railworks and steam and sticking with direct downloads from Auran/N3V…

mcguirel
April 14th, 2011, 04:31 PM
Let me expand this controversial post with a side note:

Anyone who owns MSTS needs to really really really look at Open Rails (http://www.openrails.org/).

No more version chasing as this will be opensource improvements as developed (huge plus and a possible ruining of Trainz).
It will have multiplayer and from I understand now it will be IP/Lan Based. Anyone with 3DMax/GMAX Talent can create.
Sorry, but I feel TS12 should of been TS2010 SP4 Value Added Pack and TS2010 Add-On Route Package Purchase(s).

The graphics on this is absolutely phenominal. 3D Content is in developement along with almost every feature minus a surveyor function as easy a Trainz ( only downfall ).
I am really considering migrating to Open Rails, but awaiting one open ticket to the HelpDesk to see what opportunity arises from it.

I feel honestly this MSTS OpenSource Mode is going to grow leaps and bounds and open many avenues for people who find they need to find a new source to enjoy Railroading.

In Additional edit: Some of the best creators in MSTS are coming back and am I totally impressed with what they have to offer, not only Payware but Freeware.
Bar none, some of the best rolling stock and engines I've witnessed.

meatloaf747
April 14th, 2011, 11:28 PM
:hehe: But the party goes on... ;) http://www.getsmile.com/emoticons/energizer-smileys-51935/band.gif This reminds me of "We Didn't Start The Fire" by Billy Joel... :hehe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g Me neither... ;) The ever-musical side of Alberte :wave:

Billy Joel !!! And here I was thinking you where another Hendrix fanatic like me !!! :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bng3agUOYiI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoAXW30mMAg&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLeIdH2gTSc&NR=1

The totting side of Mac... :hehe:

Mike10
April 15th, 2011, 09:03 AM
The shadows are a legitimate advantage, and one that Auran/N3V would do well to try and replicate - it would make asset creation slightly easier to not have to worry about supplying shadow meshes too.


The shaders are very useful, however, you do still have to supply shadow meshes for rolling stock.

This is the heirachy of meshes in Max for a relatively simple brake van for Railworks.

http://www.mbserver.co.uk/forum_pictures/railworks_structure.jpg

Mike.

HSTGuy14
April 15th, 2011, 09:44 AM
I was actually thinking to buy Railworks 2 as it looks a lot more realistic than Trainz
This is a Railworks 2 Class 66:
http://www.vonatmagazin.hu/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/class66_railworks.jpg

and This is a Trainz Class 66:
http://i40.tinypic.com/dxedjk.jpg

RRSignal
April 15th, 2011, 10:00 AM
Re-read this thread, then. I doubt you will want to buy.

Unlike a lot of people, I am couldn't care less about platform; I already have 3 different train sims running on my machine and would have no problem with a fourth if it provided what I wanted. And, I don't care much about price. But I'm not even willing to try RW2 because of the Steam DRM. I don't want somebody else being able to decide if and when they can turn off my software and render my investment worthless, which many other companies have done. Not to mention I don't want to give someone else carte blanche access to my computer.

Note I haven't even touched on the myriad of other problems with RW2; others have taken care of that above.

NikkiA
April 15th, 2011, 10:38 AM
The cab interior is great though, all RW2 cabs are better than anything in Trainz. Apart from some chinese, russian and jointed rail contributions to TS12.


Ironically, the cab on the RW class 66 is about the worst of the lot (largely because the prototype is grey, boxy, drab and boring too), and the rumour3 class 66 interior is about as good as the RW class 66, it's one of the better of the 'older' trainz interiors.

On the other hand, Hummus' CD 471 EMU released today, along with any of Ocemy's engines, and the more recent stuff on trainzup (the ChS series and the new M62) blow away railworks' payware interiors. Which pretty much proves there's nothing intrinsic to trainz interiors being 'bad', we've just been lazy over the last few years (coupled with the fact that quite a few don't even use the interior views so don't care how they look)

mrscsi
April 15th, 2011, 12:06 PM
Ironically, the cab on the RW class 66 is about the worst of the lot (largely because the prototype is grey, boxy, drab and boring too), and the rumour3 class 66 interior is about as good as the RW class 66, it's one of the better of the 'older' trainz interiors.

On the other hand, Hummus' CD 471 EMU released today, along with any of Ocemy's engines, and the more recent stuff on trainzup (the ChS series and the new M62) blow away railworks' payware interiors. Which pretty much proves there's nothing intrinsic to trainz interiors being 'bad', we've just been lazy over the last few years (coupled with the fact that quite a few don't even use the interior views so don't care how they look)

Being introduced Ocemy's work (although I'm sure I've run across Examples over the years) but when I bought ContZ I guess I should say I was "awakened" to the level of detail that Ocemy puts in his work.

He has definitely raised the bar, thrown down the gauntlet, upped the ante, when it comes to detail level in Trainz. I think a lot more content creators are going to step up to the challenge instead of rolling over and laying down…

His containers are just absolutely sick when it comes to the level of detail.

22alpha
April 15th, 2011, 12:13 PM
Ocemy is an animal! His work gives us all something to strive for! It certainly opens eyes to see what can be done. We have work to do! ;)

Mike

rumour3
April 15th, 2011, 12:46 PM
I was actually thinking to buy Railworks 2 as it looks a lot more realistic than Trainz
This is a Railworks 2 Class 66: Snip

and This is a Trainz Class 66: Snip
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these both Railworks?

R3

mezzoprezzo
April 15th, 2011, 12:48 PM
I was actually thinking to buy Railworks 2 as it looks a lot more realistic than Trainz
~images snipped~

Hi HSTGuy14.

Not a bad picture (the Railworks one, the Trainz tinypic isn’t opening for me), but how real is it?

I’d still like to see a modelled version of a real scene, with photographic evidence to compare the real deal with the Railworks modelled equivalent. To me that is the real test of how a product can emulate reality.

It not just the software which enables this, but also the wealth of creative assets made and shared by the community. Over the years, Trainz users have provided more than enough material to reproduce the right result for every continent and practically any country.

Some of the Railworks screenshots do look quite impressive, but there is always something in the image which lets it down. I’ve yet to see one which has blown me away.

The image shown has a nice loco. The track isn’t bad, but the building on the right platform, and the canopy on the left appear to be floating. They are not anchored to the ground. I can only guess that Railworks does not have a good enough selection of assets to make them look connected to the platforms.

There is also a strange block in the top centre sky, and what looks like the top of some kind of frame over the near left side track. A bit picky perhaps, but not something which should appear in a screen grab.

Let’s have a true test. How about posting a Railworks/real image comparison?

Cheers
Casper
:)

Retro00064
April 15th, 2011, 01:19 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these both Railworks?

R3

Ditto. The "bars" at the top and bottom of the "Trainz" screenshot do not look very Trainz-like to me. :eek: ;)

Regards.

sniper297
April 15th, 2011, 01:54 PM
That's correct, the first pic in post 227 is from Railworks, the bottom pic is from the predecessor Rail Simulator.

"it looks a lot more realistic than Trainz"

I agree, but that's ALL it has going for it, the AI traffic is hopeless, and all the "further enhance" patching they have done over the last three years only makes it worse.

Trainz has only one major flaw that makes Railworks look so much better;

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7458/127646.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3373/127647.jpg

Laying out complex trackwork with realistic looking switches takes minutes in Railworks, impossible in Trainz.

zatovisualworks
April 15th, 2011, 02:26 PM
Laying out complex trackwork with realistic looking switches takes minutes in Railworks, impossible in Trainz.

;) Realistic? It depends on what you really realize it's realistic, dear guy. :D

http://nitholdings.com/RailSwitchCurve44k.jpg

I don't usually show this kind of pictures but your overassuring statement prompted me to show you that life 1:1 is life 1:1 whereas virtual life should keep being virtual... ;)

Please, forgive my daring post but I sometimes get puzzled while thinking about the different perceptions of realism and virtuality most of us show off and how we tend to state ours to be the good one. Impressionism and expressionism in painting would be a good sample for starting over.

The photorealistic side of Alberte :wave:

mcguirel
April 15th, 2011, 05:15 PM
Nothing realistic about RW track, it looks like chunks of 2D angle iron.

There are some track textures in MSTS, that look better than RW.

IKB.


There is a guy for Open Rails, can remember who off hand that is working on th best turnouts I have ever seen. I find the site with info, will pass along.

RRSignal
April 15th, 2011, 05:22 PM
Thanks for that, I've begun to look at OR since your earlier post. It would be interesting if the PRR Megaroute could port over...I might try at some point if someone hasn't already.

sparky15
April 15th, 2011, 05:51 PM
As far as operating, RS has a lot in common with MSTS and I just like MSTS over it.

For content, that's another matter. The majority of content for RW seems to rely on payware. If you have deep pockets, that's alright.

MSTS gives a great balance of freeware versus payware. I have payware from Maple Leaf Tracks that I think are a great value. For the price of one locomotive in RW you get a route and all the rolling stock with MSTS vendors. Streamlines is another, but I haven't purchased from them yet. Payware vendors in MSTS also have a liberal repaint policy which opens up a world of freeware add ons.

If you want another sim to go along with Trainz, MSTS is the better option in my opinion. I spend equal time in both, get burnt out in one, switch to the other. The Bin patch, and now Open Rails, put new life in the old sim.

I guess the choice is yours. I found the payware grab, threatening in forums and new policies by some RW vendors pretty distasteful at best. I'm not above paying creators for content at all. With so much in RW payware based, the drama is disgusting. Kind of killed the hobby aspect and turned it into a board meeting with shareholders.

Do a lot of research if you're considering RW. The program itself isn't bad, it's after the purchase games that get stupid pretty quick.

Dave.......

stovepipe
April 15th, 2011, 06:28 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these both Railworks?

R3

Indeed.

Strange thing to do with your first post on the Trainz forums isn't it? What's this - no registered version of Trainz either?? I will let folks draw their own conclusions.........

Ghost42
April 15th, 2011, 07:22 PM
Ditto. The "bars" at the top and bottom of the "Trainz" screenshot do not look very Trainz-like to me. :eek: ;)

Regards.

But I love the foliage ;)
Rog

RRSignal
April 15th, 2011, 10:23 PM
Cool, thanks for the info. I hope it's more stable than the MSTS version. Actually, anything would be.

WestSideRailways
April 16th, 2011, 12:03 AM
Actually, contrary to all the nay sayers here, RW is very good at what it does - which is to allow run trains through realistic schedules in realistic environments. It does not easily allow you to create new routes or sessions of your own - but then that was never claimed as its strong point.

I got a copy cheap last year - maybe you can find a bargain too. It makes a nice break from all the hassle Trainz can inflict on you.

Trainz would not be Trainz, if it did not hassle you , now and then.:hehe::o:confused::eek::(:'(:udrool::udrool:: udrool::udrool::mop:

HSTGuy14
April 16th, 2011, 05:35 AM
going on some advice from other comments i'm still thinking to buy
Railworks 2

A Railworks Class 66:
http://album.atomic-systems.com/showPic.php/116491/class663.jpg

Real Class 66:
http://www.freefoto.com/images/23/65/23_65_13---EWS-Class-66_web.jpg?&k=EWS+Class+66

mezzoprezzo
April 16th, 2011, 05:49 AM
The loco looks quite good, but what’s the grey stuff above the cab which looks like a cross between chain mail and a tyre tread?

I’d also like to see how well Railworks can model the real picture to which you have posted a link. The track and foliage is easily worked in Trainz; how about the equivalent screenshot modelled in Railworks?

The loco is only part of the whole picture. If you want to prove how “real” Railworks is let’s see a screenshot of the whole thing.

Mouse84
April 16th, 2011, 05:51 AM
I have to agree, it looks like HSTGuy14 has only 2 posts, no registered Trainz sims and is only here to TRY to promote another game. Take what he has to say with a grain of salt.

As for that other game, you can post pretty screen shots all day long, but as a railroader, I'll take Trainz any day over that crap that your trying to promote.

Deano5
April 16th, 2011, 06:06 AM
That 66 doesn't look any different from the one's on the DLS, I think the photo skinned versions are even better looking.
This must be a free plug for the other side :eek:.
I'll stick with my Trainz thank you :p.

WestSideRailways
April 16th, 2011, 06:17 AM
Have been with trainz for 10 years, so iam not goin g to change , any time soon:D

hminky
April 16th, 2011, 10:08 AM
Disclaimer: These are my OPINIONS thru observation

Up until 3 days ago I would say Railworks was better.

TS12 truly sucks.
TS10 has that distance limiter so has no draw distance.
TS09 SP4 is just TS10 without Speedtrees, implements the distance limiters.
TS09 Sp3 won't run EK3 or my TS10 Ozark Northern

My first copy of Trainz was TS09 on Steam. Updates were slow and I forgot about that copy. While updating my Failworks on my XP machine, I have my 3ds Max there and the max won't run on my Win7 64 machine, theTS09 started updating. I tried it and shazam it worked great.

It would load my TS10 Ozark Northern with great draw distance:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/image/trees_on_the_hill.jpg

On a clear day you can see forever with out a limiter. In TS10 the trees on the ridge jump in and out.

I went back to the Win7 machine and loaded Steam09 and loaded up EK3 and ran it:
http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/image/ek3-3.jpg

Running the sliders on Normal draw distance at 4000 and goodweather fog at 6. No background jumping around because of the distance limiter. EK3 doesn't looks look right with Speedtrees.

Sorry Failworks you don't look like North America and has those creepy forward facing trees.

Steam09 is MY Trainz.

Happy in Trainz land
Harold

nexusdj
April 16th, 2011, 10:53 AM
going on some advice from other comments i'm still thinking to buy
Railworks 2

A Railworks Class 66.......



You'd think for a sim claiming to be the dog's doodah's when it comes to detailed loco's that they'd at least get the coupler correct on the front of the 66 :hehe:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b141/djnexus/trainz%202010/66coupler3.jpg

hminky
April 16th, 2011, 11:06 AM
No need to judge, promoting, advertising or refering to the use of pirated software on this forum is in breach of the COC.

As well as against the law in most civilised countries.

EDIT: Good spot nexusdj. :D

IKB.

I edited the post. Forgot this isn't the other Trainz forum.

Autodesk isn't civilised anyway.

Harold

NikkiA
April 16th, 2011, 11:21 AM
You'd think for a sim claiming to be the dog's doodah's when it comes to detailed loco's that they'd at least get the coupler correct on the front of the 66 :hehe:



They're probably working on a new '66 model, so that they can charge for it again. The current '66 is the same one as for RailSimulator, and getting long in the tooth.

There again, maybe they haven't finished selling the 101 model as different classes yet.

Edit: Just compared rumour3's EWS 66 to the RW 66. On balance, I think the trainz 66 has a much better appearance, it's as detailed, and more accurate. The interior is *slightly* less detailed on the trainz model though - but again, the 66 interior is grey, boxy and boring, any model of it is going to look pretty dull interior-wise. The RW 66 also has a weird 'shiny roof' thing going on with it's orange peel texture, and doesn't look at all realistic from many angles - it CERTAINLY doesn't look like a 66 that has been used, the weathering is pathetic above the cab line.

Driving wise? no contest, the trainz 66 is far more believable, and ironically one of the few UK locos where the iffy trainz control scheme isn't in the way (most UK locos aren't notched, but the 66 has a standard 8+idle EMD notch scheme), doubly ironic is the fact that that argument is reversed on the RW model - it's a continuous throttle like older UK models, rather than an EMD notched throttle. It performs accurately on Lickey, whereas in RW it has far too much tractive effort, and a banker isn't necessary (66's are still banked by another 66 up lickey).

aardvark1
April 16th, 2011, 11:44 AM
I edited the post. Forgot this isn't the other Trainz forum.

Autodesk isn't civilised anyway.

Harold

But.... you can NOT edit the post by>>>anigacooke<<< so your not quite out of the woods. And you can not edit my post.

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showpost.php?p=782079&postcount=254

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote:
Originally Posted by hminky http://forums.auran.com/trainz/images/newforum/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?p=782061#post782061)
I have my pirated 3ds Max there
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I do hope you enjoy your time away from the Trainz Forums.

Have fun,

amigacooke
April 16th, 2011, 11:51 AM
Who are you to judge?A concerned parent. :) *

hminky
April 16th, 2011, 11:54 AM
But.... you can NOT edit the post

I do hope you enjoy your time away from the Trainz Forums.

Have fun,
I have said everything I will ever have to say about Trainz. I probably won't buy another version since I have found the one that works.

I don't care if I can't come on the Trainz forum.

Hopefully my post will help someone.

Happy in Trainz land.
Harold

Euphod
April 16th, 2011, 12:00 PM
There's another Trainz forum?:eek:

I'm always the last to know...

hminky
April 16th, 2011, 12:12 PM
Back to a more positive note:

Railworks will never look like this:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/image/ek3-4.jpg

EK3 on Steam09. If you put that many trees in Railworks it will choke up.

Harold

RRSignal
April 16th, 2011, 01:26 PM
Your experience is not uncommon, Harold. That's the digital life. For all the versions and features or a particular piece of software (or hardware, for that matter) sometimes one just gets set up the way you want it or just works out for you.

I recommend, though, cloning your hard drive periodically.

cilldroichid
April 16th, 2011, 06:26 PM
I bought both sims, RW2 and Trainz 2010EE, around last Christmas.

Went through the tutorials and a few default routes on the two of them, and i'm afraid i prefered RW2. I've concentrated on RW2 since but do give Trainz an odd run out.

Graphics: In my opinion RW2 looks a lot better than Trainz, i don't know but Trainz to me looks sort of cartoonist, and the tracks 10 metres and out from the cab are a sort of drab gray, very off putting. Again this is my opinion, and might be the fault of my computer specs.

Route building: I have not dabbled in route building on either sim as of yet, but it is generally acknowledged that Trainz, and i've seen this been said on more than one Railworks forum, is much better and easier.

Physics: The train physics and how near they are to real life seems to be, understandably, of upmost importance to trainsim 'purists' (for want of a better word). To tell the truth i don't notice much off a difference, once the thing moves is enough for me at this early stage in my train simming experience. Don't get me wrong i'd prefer things to be as realistic as possible, but having never been inside the cab of a train i don't really feel qualified to say whats realistic or not. I've seen another trainsim been mentioned as having more realistic physics than both RW2 and Trainz, its name escapes me at the moment.

I do plan to explore Trainz in the future and give it a proper go, but as i've since bought the complete RW2 dlc package, it will be a while before i've finished driving around everthing in RW2.

What i would say to the OP, or any one else, wondering which of the two sims is the best, get the two of them, try them out and make up your mind.

Again eveything here is my own opinion, for whatever that is worth.

geoffwilliams
April 16th, 2011, 07:16 PM
I bought both sims, RW2 and Trainz 2010EE, around last Christmas.

Went through the tutorials and a few default routes on the two of them, and i'm afraid i prefered RW2. I've concentrated on RW2 since but do give Trainz an odd run out.

Graphics: In my opinion RW2 looks a lot better than Trainz, i don't know but Trainz to me looks sort of cartoonist, and the tracks 10 metres and out from the cab are a sort of drab gray, very off putting. Again this is my opinion, and might be the fault of my computer specs.

Route building: I have not dabbled in route building on either sim as of yet, but it is generally acknowledged that Trainz, and i've seen this been said on more than one Railworks forum, is much better and easier.

Physics: The train physics and how near they are to real life seems to be, understandably, of upmost importance to trainsim 'purists' (for want of a better word). To tell the truth i don't notice much off a difference, once the thing moves is enough for me at this early stage in my train simming experience. Don't get me wrong i'd prefer things to be as realistic as possible, but having never been inside the cab of a train i don't really feel qualified to say whats realistic or not. I've seen another trainsim been mentioned as having more realistic physics than both RW2 and Trainz, its name escapes me at the moment.

I do plan to explore Trainz in the future and give it a proper go, but as i've since bought the complete RW2 dlc package, it will be a while before i've finished driving around everthing in RW2.

What i would say to the OP, or any one else, wondering which of the two sims is the best, get the two of them, try them out and make up your mind.

Again eveything here is my own opinion, for whatever that is worth.
Couldn't agree more. Trainz is great. Railworks is great. Can't understand why the controversy. Use both, and enjoy both.
Geoff

zatovisualworks
April 16th, 2011, 07:33 PM
Hi Geoff,

Trainz is great, Railworks is not great. Can't understand why the controversy. Use both, and enjoy both. ;)

Crisis, what crisis?

Controversy, what controversy?

;)

The missing controversial side of Alberte :wave:

hminky
April 16th, 2011, 08:15 PM
Cartoonish, it doesn't have to be:

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/image/ek3-5.jpg

You can't get that look in Railworks

Harold

nexusdj
April 17th, 2011, 08:34 AM
Liking both sims is all well and good but the problem is that time after time after time Railfail devotee's come on here and run our beloved Trainz into the ground trying to pick faults with it (yes we know trainz has faults) , but this fault picking is completely one sided because if we attempt the same thing on a railfail forum then it gets moderated and deleted and you end up with a ban .

SO please understand this is a TRAINZ forum and if you don't want you're beloved railfail to get abused by trainz users then don't come on here trying to peddle your filth !!

Trainz users If you love both sims then good for you but once again this is a TRAINZ forum if you want to sing the praises of railfail go do it on a railfail forum , I'm sure they'll moderate you with open arms :hehe:

zatovisualworks
April 17th, 2011, 08:42 AM
I'm sure they'll moderate you with open arms :hehe:

:hehe: No doubt, with two open strong arms... http://www.ibertrainz.eu/foro/Smileys/default/icon_tunk.gif

My head is still aching... http://www.zatovisualworks.com/smileys/tiritas.gif

:hehe:

The wide-open-armed side of Alberte :wave:

Euphod
April 17th, 2011, 09:20 AM
Let me see if I've been keeping track of current events here...

Trainz is great, Trainz is terrible, Railworks is great, Railworks is terrible.

Okay, I got it I think...:o