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roymac
March 27th, 2011, 06:12 PM
With permission from Dermmy, I have put together a collection of Screenshots of my latest version of his great EK route. When I purchased TRS2010 I wanted to learn how to use it but I didn't want to bring over from TRS04 my old routes until after I felt comfortable enough with '10. There are still a couple of bugs to work out but I am gradually getting the 'hang of things'. These shots represent my editing and experimenting to date.

Please do not ask if this version will be available for downloading because it will not. Dermmy was kind enough to allow for this editing but we agreed on on it being limited to Screenshots only.

Thanks and enjoy. Please feel free to make any comments you wish.

roymac

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/9770/trs101.jpg

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/8625/trs102.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3522/trs105.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3200/trs109.jpg

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9951/trs1010.jpg

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3449/trs1017.jpg

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9237/trs1016.jpg

nuni7270
March 27th, 2011, 06:31 PM
Wow, the Blue Comet fits in there like that last puzzle piece...looks magnificent. :wave:

mezzoprezzo
April 1st, 2011, 06:23 PM
Hi roymac.

Thanks for the offer and opportunity to comment.

A very interesting re-work. It looks as if a great deal of time and effort has gone into modifying some of the content in this great Route of Andy's.

Shot 1.
Foliage looks good! The nice variation of greens and the contrast of foreground to background vegetation looks as if a real breakthrough has been made. This image paints Andy’s route in a completely new light.


Unhappily, some of the later shots tell a slightly different story, IMHO.:o

Shot 2
The trees in the middle distance, just showing above the blue loco and tender look a bit “grainy” and unnatural in colour and texture. Perhaps that's just personal preference.

Shot 3
The big tree to the left doesn’t look totally natural. The smaller branches are a bit too spiky. The trunk and bigger limbs look a bit too sculpted with the lines of the relief bark effect made up of a series of several straight lines, rather than a flowing pattern.

The trees in the background, above the loco cab, seem be of billboard construction, but have alternate light and dark planes. This loses the illusion of reality that has made trees such as Trunda’s, and those of other renowned tree creators, such a success.

Shot 4
Some of the trees to the right of picture are badly distorted and others have the light/shade on the billboard faces badly mismatched as in the last shot. This appears to be a major problem.:eek:

Shot 5
A nice picture.

The only tree which looks unreal is the SpeedTree (I think that’s what it is) to the left of the track in the distance. It’s out of scale with the others, and looks as if it’s lurking, ready to pounce on the train as soon as it is within range! It’s foliage looks like a collection of star shaped clumps.

The embankment to the left is too straight and knife edged. I suspect Andy would have had this covered with foliage. It either needs some replacements, or possibly to be reshaped/textured to make it less uniform, if it is to be left bare.

Shot 6
Those shadows are nice!

I don’t see the light source. Presumably it’s coming from the ceiling within the building, because the shadow is cast the other way in the opposite entrance. I’d be interested to know how these shadows are produced. Are they simply part of the asset texture and therefore fixed (perhaps appearing at night like any light pool asset), or produced and move dynamically?

If the female figure is placed in the lighted area, would she cast a shadow as well?

Shot 7
The “SpeedTrees”, in particular the cluster of three to the right, and the single to the left, look unnatural and out of scale.

In fact they, unfortunately, serve to make the other finely worked assets, i.e. the building, vehicles and rolling stock appear toy like. Try covering those trees with your fingers. The other assets then magically appear to be properly scaled again.

Having just re-read this prior to posting I hope this doesn’t come across as “SpeedTree bashing”. It’s simply my opinion on the screenshots as posted and the impact as I see it, with a few areas pointed out where improvement could perhaps be made. I do admire the effort that is being invested by the pioneers of this foliage.

I hope this will be accepted as constructive criticism.

The new genre of trees is clearly improving, but IMHO has a fair way to go before I’d be happy.

Cheers
Casper

Zorronov
April 1st, 2011, 06:35 PM
Having just re-read this prior to posting I hope this doesn’t come across as “SpeedTree bashing”.

Pointing out that SpeedTrees don't look good isn't "SpeedTree bashing". It's merely stating the obvious.

Cheers,
Fred

roymac
April 1st, 2011, 08:44 PM
Hi roymac.

Thanks for the offer and opportunity to comment.

A very interesting re-work. It looks as if a great deal of time and effort has gone into modifying some of the content in this great Route of Andy's.

Shot 1.
Foliage looks good! The nice variation of greens and the contrast of foreground to background vegetation looks as if a real breakthrough has been made. This image paints Andy’s route in a completely new light.


Unhappily, some of the later shots tell a slightly different story, IMHO.:o

Shot 2
The trees in the middle distance, just showing above the blue loco and tender look a bit “grainy” and unnatural in colour and texture. Perhaps that's just personal preference.

Shot 3
The big tree to the left doesn’t look totally natural. The smaller branches are a bit too spiky. The trunk and bigger limbs look a bit too sculpted with the lines of the relief bark effect made up of a series of several straight lines, rather than a flowing pattern.

The trees in the background, above the loco cab, seem be of billboard construction, but have alternate light and dark planes. This loses the illusion of reality that has made trees such as Trunda’s, and those of other renowned tree creators, such a success.

Shot 4
Some of the trees to the right of picture are badly distorted and others have the light/shade on the billboard faces badly mismatched as in the last shot. This appears to be a major problem.:eek:

Shot 5
A nice picture.

The only tree which looks unreal is the SpeedTree (I think that’s what it is) to the left of the track in the distance. It’s out of scale with the others, and looks as if it’s lurking, ready to pounce on the train as soon as it is within range! It’s foliage looks like a collection of star shaped clumps.

The embankment to the left is too straight and knife edged. I suspect Andy would have had this covered with foliage. It either needs some replacements, or possibly to be reshaped/textured to make it less uniform, if it is to be left bare.

Shot 6
Those shadows are nice!

I don’t see the light source. Presumably it’s coming from the ceiling within the building, because the shadow is cast the other way in the opposite entrance. I’d be interested to know how these shadows are produced. Are they simply part of the asset texture and therefore fixed (perhaps appearing at night like any light pool asset), or produced and move dynamically?

If the female figure is placed in the lighted area, would she cast a shadow as well?

Shot 7
The “SpeedTrees”, in particular the cluster of three to the right, and the single to the left, look unnatural and out of scale.

In fact they, unfortunately, serve to make the other finely worked assets, i.e. the building, vehicles and rolling stock appear toy like. Try covering those trees with your fingers. The other assets then magically appear to be properly scaled again.

Having just re-read this prior to posting I hope this doesn’t come across as “SpeedTree bashing”. It’s simply my opinion on the screenshots as posted and the impact as I see it, with a few areas pointed out where improvement could perhaps be made. I do admire the effort that is being invested by the pioneers of this foliage.

I hope this will be accepted as constructive criticism.

The new genre of trees is clearly improving, but IMHO has a fair way to go before I’d be happy.

Cheers
Casper

Thanks for the comments Casper. I think one of the hardest things to 'get right' is the foliage. I admire those amongst us who are working hard at making improvements with it. One of the issues I have in working with TRS10 is Speedtreez. On the one hand they are 'not bad' in appearance but turning them off has been a challenge. That problem is still being worked on. From an appearance point of view as I stated, they are not bad considering what else is available out there. Each day new items are brought to the table so I suspect the ground foliage will improve also.

In screen 5 where the embankment shows, some clever coverage as suggested, would indeed have helped. Dealing with such edging is always going to be a challenge. Even with DEM which I suspect Andy's original route was based on, doesn't eliminate the issue entirely. How much time, patience and work you put into carving out the rest of the layout will make a difference in how realistic the final version will look. I try to create a balance, as I know that until some graphical issues with the program have been improved, Trainz in its current form, will lack somewhat visually.

The image with the woman...that is just how the screenshot looked within the game. Because of the interesting light pattern, I thought it warranted a screenshot. Would she herself have created a shadow...who knows. I might play around with that to see.

You mentioned 'scaling' couple of times. This is something that one has to deal with with almost every asset. How proportionally correct each item is in relationship to the environment they will be placed in, is almost as much an art as it is one of mathematics. Many times I look at an item and know it doesn't quite fit but try to work around it as best I can especially, if I really like the item for other reasons. In a lot of cases, I actually lower trees considerably once placed just so they do appear proportional. Obviously, I am not always successful!

Thanks again for your comments, they are always welcome.

roymac

Euphod
April 1st, 2011, 08:58 PM
I think you've done a fine job there Roy. There are many nice speedtrees available now, I'm sure with enough noodling around you will make peace with your foliage...

mezzoprezzo
April 2nd, 2011, 03:43 AM
Pointing out that SpeedTrees don't look good isn't "SpeedTree bashing". It's merely stating the obvious.

Cheers,
Fred


Hi Fred.

The problem is that it’s apparently not obvious to everyone.

Simply accepting them, and saying nothing, achieves nothing.

Simply slagging them off, without giving any reason when presented with the evidence, also achieves nothing.

Sharing opinions on what is acceptable, or otherwise, and the reasons why is more constructive IMHO. It might provide a more positive incentive for them to developed to a better standard and maybe, just maybe, they will come good in the end.

Cheers
Casper

hminky
April 2nd, 2011, 06:34 AM
Go to Trainzup and get Pofig's Speedtrees,. Ditch the Auran Speedtrees and the Billboards.

Harold

roymac
April 2nd, 2011, 07:27 AM
I think you've done a fine job there Roy. There are many nice speedtrees available now, I'm sure with enough noodling around you will make peace with your foliage...


..."you will make peace with your foliage"....I like that, made me crack a smile. :D

roymac

Euphod
April 2nd, 2011, 07:39 AM
Literally Roy:
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/99528e530b12768974c75943499d0103.jpg
I find those Speed Trees to be scary!

roymac
April 3rd, 2011, 09:29 AM
Literally Roy:
http://hostthenpost.org/uploads/99528e530b12768974c75943499d0103.jpg
I find those Speed Trees to be scary!


...got to love the humor! And, I want to encourage ridership on my routes not scare the Hell out my passengers!!! :hehe::hehe::hehe: