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wholbr
November 8th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Hi Everybody.
I have come to the forum to admit that today I bought........ RAILWORKS!. In mitigation of my crime I must state that I made the purchase for only one reason, that being the Exeter to Bristol addon route that is to be released next week.

The route is in fact my local line that I travel along very often and which I have always felt that I would like to drive especially with a 125 or 130 on approach to Bristol Temple Mead. Therefore when I saw that the the route was finally coming up for release my resistance crumbled and with heavy heart and trembling hands I typed in my details and downloaded our competitors software with tears streaming from my eyes.

After reading many postings on this forum regarding Railworks (mostly bad) I will confess further that I spent this afternoon trying to master the intricacies of the simulator and have drawn some early conclusions.

My first one would be that I cannot get the screen resolution above 1280 X 1024 without getting the message that the "settings are not usable". However my video card screen settings are always operated at 1600 X 1204 and my Trainz settings are the same resolution (first black Mark).

With the settings at the above, the graphics do not seem as clear or sharp as Trainz although the difference would not be enough to put me entirely off Railworks. The graphics also look rather grayish as compared to Trainz and I am reluctant to change the settings on my monitor as they have been at what they are since I purchased the monitor 18 months ago. (Second black Mark)

One thing I have liked in my early observations is the map of the line I was running (London to Oxford) with all the signal settings, distances and station approach rolling across the bottom of the monitor as you were driving. I know this can be included in Trainz by a rule but it did seem a far more professional presentation than we have.

However, on first observations I think I will still be using Auran and Trainz as very much my first and favorite simulator. As someone said the other day "Trainz Is Fun" and I think that sums it up.

Bill:D

aardvark1
November 8th, 2010, 04:33 PM
Hi Bill,

No, no one should brand you as a traitor.

You purchased RW with you own money, for a reason you indicated.

You are mature enough to make your own decision about what you buy or use.

There are those in the :) Trainz Intelligentsia:) who will call what you did foolish, but, it's your money and your call.

Enjoy what you like.

Have fun,:)

lewisner
November 8th, 2010, 04:59 PM
You've purchased them in the same way that I purchased MSTS + Addons and Rail Simulator. They are gathering dust in my DVD rack until I can get round to putting them on Ebay with a start price of 99p

wholbr
November 8th, 2010, 05:06 PM
Hi aardvark
Thanks for that I feel 10 times better already:)

On rummaging around in steam and Railworks tonight I noticed that all patches are applied automatically without the need to do anything on my own part.

I believe this is one area Auran need to improve dramatically as I have not patched 2010 since I bought it last Christmas. This is due to the problems many have posted on the forum when patching.

I did think of downloading 2010 again as I thought this would then bring in all the patches with the new download. Not so, I was informed on the forum but even with a fresh purchase and download you still need to patch the version yourself.

That left me thinking that they must test the patches with a running version of 2010 so why not bring that version into the download to the benefit of new and existing purchasers.

I posted my thoughts on that with no response from Auran or any other member and I am still querying why. As stated this is certainly one area where steam and railworks have the upper hand to the benefit of their customers.

Penny for anybody's thoughts on that one
All the best
Bill

springtransit
November 8th, 2010, 05:11 PM
Trainz does fine for me at 1600 x 1200 res.

wholbr
November 8th, 2010, 05:26 PM
Hi lewisner and everybody.
I to have MSTS and Rail Simulator gathering dust in the drawer so perhaps we can jointly put them on eBay as a Bulk purchase of 1 pound or make an offer.

Rail Simulator was a particular disaster for me and finished up in the said drawer after only two weeks. At that time I particularly wanted to design my own route which I had found impossible with the Microsoft simulator. I was soon to learn that the same was to be said of rail simulator.

As I understand it RailWorks is a follow-on from Rail Simulator but this time my ambitions are limited to just driving the Bristol to Exeter route with my route building skills still firmly focused on Trainz.

I have spent well over 18 months building my " North Devon branch lines" and have several times said I will upload it to the DLS. However, each time I think of that I then decided that adding this or that would improve the route before uploading.

Having now completed the route I look back over my early track laying, scenery etc and think to myself that it looks rather amateurish as compared to what I have learned and done over the last few months due to the experience gained.

The above begs the question, Is any route ever really finished. That could be an interesting subject of a new thread.

All the best
Bill

rjhowie
November 8th, 2010, 08:16 PM
No ordinary bloke (like me) could hope to really build anything worthwhile on either MTS or Railworks without being techy inclined. Odd how we keep getting threads up about Railworks? I have only kept MTS for one reason and that is a commercial route that will be a big help whilst I am doing my present project with Trainz as it covers a long route between 2 cities in a different country. I will always be forever glad that after using MTS I came across Trainz by pure accident surfing the net re train sims. It has given me the chance to do what I want without long learning curves.

On the occasions of erratic ill-health which hits me from time to time it is a great medicine (!) and I can reproduce both the present day and that which is sadly gone.

jeffmorris
November 8th, 2010, 08:49 PM
I have TS2010, TRS2004, RailWorks 2, and OpenRails installed on my computer.

RRSignal
November 8th, 2010, 10:11 PM
TS2010, MSTS, OpenBVE, Train Dispatcher 2 & 3, and lots of other stuff. No sweat about having multiple sims. I decided against RW, originally, because of the lack of content, especially U.S. stuff. I'm glad I didn't buy it because of the DRM.

john_goddard
November 9th, 2010, 02:45 AM
I bought Railworks to help with building my SDJR route as RW has a version of it, John.

wholbr
November 9th, 2010, 04:14 AM
Hi Everybody.


No ordinary bloke (like me) could hope to really build anything worthwhile on either MTS or Railworks without being techy inclined. Odd how we keep getting threads up about Railworks? I have only kept MTS for one reason and that is a commercial route that will be a big help whilst I am doing my present project with Trainz as it covers a long route between 2 cities in a different country. I will always be forever glad that after using MTS I came across Trainz by pure accident surfing the net re train sims. It has given me the chance to do what I want without long learning curves.

I think that say's it all RJ. As you state there have been many postings on this forum regarding railworks, but the fact that they are placing their comments on this forum demonstrates that they are most certainly using Trainz as their first and primary simulator. I think if I was a member of the Auran management team that would make me feel pretty good as it would demonstrate that we are getting the majority of things right.

Like rjhowie I have bought Railworks for to obtain one route and I have no plans at present to use it for anything else but driving that route. My plans may change, but as stated with Trainz you can do many things especially route building without having to go through a long learning curve which for me would take away much of the pleasure in building that route.

I am supposed to be retired but I am very often asked by my previous employers to do workplace accident and investigation reports for them. This has been especially prevalent over the last couple of weeks when I have done three of these reports which has left me feeling like I was working full time again. However, there is nothing better when you decide to turn in the work for the evening than to pour yourself a glass of wine put your feet up on the desk and travel along your route creation riding in a first class Mark one restaurant car.

Now that's what I call heaven, and thanks for that Auran.
Bill

jeanba4
November 9th, 2010, 04:59 AM
Hi Bill,
No, no one should brand you as a traitor.

Why not ? it is fun to be a traitor :udrool:

More seriously as a beginner, I think that trainz has the advantage of a fantastic library of downloadable content, but that its graphics and sound effects are outdated.

When comparing screenshots, railworks look better, but does not have the same amount of downloadable content.

wholbr
November 9th, 2010, 05:17 AM
Why not ? it is fun to be a traitor :udrool:

More seriously as a beginner, I think that trainz has the advantage of a fantastic library of downloadable content, but that its graphics and sound effects are outdated.

Thanks for the comments jeanba4 and can I first of all welcome you to Trainz and the forum.

As you state the graphics and sound are somewhat outdated in the simulator and there is general agreement that a new jet engine is needed. But having said that the one thing I have noticed in using Railworks for the first time is that the graphics are not as good as Trainz (at least on my system at present).

The above may be that I have not been able to get the screen resolution as high as I am running in Trainz but it is my intention to have a another look at that later today.

As for advice to you as a newbe, I would suggest that you could not do better than to start building your first Trainz route. it can give you a great sense of achievement when you drive your first engine along your very own creation. However, the thing to remember above all is to have fun. Laugh at your mistakes and take pride in your achievements

You will have many hours of pleasure in front of you I am sure

Bill:D

airtime
November 9th, 2010, 07:36 AM
Your not a traitor mate,

You are exactly like me and many others on here, you are a rail fan, and trains are what makes your boat rock, I have Rail Simulator at the minute, but I am tempted by the call of Railworks.

I have Rail Simulator, and I like it for it's graphics and especially it's dopler sound, but I do not like Rail Simulator for it's route building, in my book it's too fiddly and off putting.

I love Trainz for it's easy route building, and it's continued progression in wanting to be the best on the market. I also love Trainz because of this forum, there are a lot of great friends on here who I trust, and I treat as my family, if I am ever in trouble, my forum friends appear far and wide to help me solve my problem, along with my good friends at Auran who are also on hand anytime I need help.

As someone mentioned earlier, Railworks is good, but Trainz is fun...

Joe Airtime

Vern
November 9th, 2010, 07:46 AM
I've stated before, Railworks is like a bad road accident - you know you shouldn't look but can't help yourself!

It's actually a tribute to the outwardly fragile ecodisc that it's survived so many spins in the DVD drive I've reinstalled so many times, the latest just this Sunday gone.

Bristol to Exeter is looking good and I've already got it pre-ordered albeit getting put away for Christmas.

lewisner
November 9th, 2010, 08:58 AM
wholbr said "I have spent well over 18 months building my " North Devon branch lines" and have several times said I will upload it to the DLS. However, each time I think of that I then decided that adding this or that would improve the route before uploading.

Having now completed the route I look back over my early track laying, scenery etc and think to myself that it looks rather amateurish as compared to what I have learned and done over the last few months due to the experience gained.

The above begs the question, Is any route ever really finished. That could be an interesting subject of a new thread."

I started one of my Routes (Sunderland) in late 2004 but without the benefit of DEM, Google Earth and so on with with the result that all the heights are wrong.
So although it's fun to drive I would feel ashamed of it if it was on the DLS. Plus the fact that every time I feel satisfied with a bit of it somebody brings out new Content (like the TC3 Signals) and I have to change everything for the new stuff.Thus, I prefer to think of my Routes as forever "Work In Progress"
Re Rail Simulator I'll probably get flamed for saying this but the ECML route didn't impress me - some of the buildings were nice but the route as a whole didn't look like the section north of Darlington which I know so well. Nor indeed was I struck by the graphics but that may be because I am used to Trainz. I generally find the graphics in MSTS and RS to be rather washed out and pastel looking.

RRSignal
November 9th, 2010, 10:54 AM
Nor indeed was I struck by the graphics but that may be because I am used to Trainz. I generally find the graphics in MSTS and RS to be rather washed out and pastel looking.

Well, now the 80's are coming back! :clap:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/5161047751_5d3c75a494.jpg

wholbr
November 9th, 2010, 01:14 PM
Hi Everybody.


I've stated before, Railworks is like a bad road accident - you know you shouldn't look but can't help yourself!
Bristol to Exeter is looking good and I've already got it pre-ordered albeit getting put away for Christmas.

AAAH Vern I bet that statement that the Bristol to Exeter route is to be put away until Christmas does not hold good. As soon as it arrives you will be wanting to give it a run, especially after I start telling you how good or bad it is following the release next week.

I was also looking at the UKSM site late last night and noticed your name getting kicked around a bit when he came to threads on Railworks. I take it you must of had a few "up and downers" with some of the more prominent posters over there which by reading some of the comments by them would be perfectly understandable. I had not visited that site for a very long time and was struck by how much it has become a long-running advertisement for Railworks.



Re Rail Simulator I'll probably get flamed for saying this but the ECML route didn't impress me - some of the buildings were nice but the route as a whole didn't look like the section north of Darlington which I know so well. Nor indeed was I struck by the graphics but that may be because I am used to Trainz. I generally find the graphics in MSTS and RS to be rather washed out and pastel looking.

Lewisner, I have not been able to spend much time with Railworks today but I have to agree with you from my first experience with the simulator yesterday the graphics compared to Trainz do seem to be rather gray Pastel looking. This has surprised me as many who have posted on this forum regarding Railworks have stated that the graphics are better than this simulator. Oh well you learn by experience!


I started one of my Routes (Sunderland) in late 2004 but without the benefit of DEM, Google Earth and so on with with the result that all the heights are wrong.
So although it's fun to drive I would feel ashamed of it if it was on the DLS. Plus the fact that every time I feel satisfied with a bit of it somebody brings out new Content (like the TC3 Signals) and I have to change everything for the new stuff.Thus, I prefer to think of my Routes as forever "Work In Progress"


I think this is really interesting what you have said there, as their must be many Trainz fans who have created Routes that have not been put on the DLS because they feel they are not of sufficient quality or that the actual layout would not come up to what the "Trainz intelligentsia" would expect and therefore they just remain as "work in progress". I would count myself and my route as one that folds into that bracket.

As stated I think a separate thread on the matter would be a good ideal as my feeling is that there could be many (if not hundreds) of excellent routes out there that could give Trainz fans many hours of pleasure in running them if the creators could be encouraged to bring them on to the DLS and the community were to accept them as not perfect but well worth the running and not criticizing the creators. With Christmas coming up they could make excellent and cost free Christmas presents to the community.

Anybody up for that
Bill

Vern
November 9th, 2010, 04:54 PM
I take it you must of had a few "up and downers" with some of the more prominent posters over there which by reading some of the comments by them would be perfectly understandable.

:eek: Indeed. Though probably least said, soonest mended. My policy where that forum is concerned is to not let it get in the way of privately enjoying what RW does well and use the file library to host any routes I might eventually produce. I probably have gone a bit overboard in recent months announcing projects with great enthusiasm then losing interest, but then who hasn't and it's a bit disengenuous of third parties to fire that off as ammunition.

My aim from now on is to take the route building (for any sim) underground and not make any announcement until it's in a file library somewhere.

rjhowie
November 9th, 2010, 09:08 PM
Nice to know we are in the same corner so to speak there re this issue wholbr.

I am immensely glad when I first accidentally came across Trainz. At first I had been disappointed at the giant mountain you had to climb to build something on MTS, etc.Timidly at first after that disappointment I then realised I could make a dream come true and build something that had vanished way back in 1962 here in Glasgow. In the local Glasgow parlance Trainz could be described as 'pure dead brilliant'. I always laugh when I heard local kids use this but it sums up Trainz. It challenges, is fun and when you complete something there is a feeling of success. To be frank for all the cost of the thing it is tremendous value for the hours of enjoyment and involvement.

After building my city which took a good couple of years or more off and on as my first venture I am now doing the whole rail system of another constituent country here in the UK such has been my satisfaction. Yeah, there are quirks and probs at times but it rains and snows sometimes too doesn't it and we girn (good Scots word that!) at that as well!

wholbr
November 10th, 2010, 02:41 PM
Hi everybody.


Trainz. It challenges, is fun and when you complete something there is A feeling of success. To be frank for all the cost of the thing it is tremendous value for the hours of enjoyment and involvement.

If you don't mind me saying RJ I think that is a really great quote you posted there and really sums up what so many of us feel about Trainz.

I have not had much time to run Railworks since I Bought it two days ago but I had a go at setting up a simple scenario on the Oxford to London route this morning and have driven on parts of the same route late yesterday.

I have now got it to run in 1600 X 1024 resolution but I'm still somewhat disappointed with the grayish looking graphics but this is still early days and I am really waiting for the release of the Bristol to Exeter add on to make final judgment.

Having said all that, it just doesn't feel the same as Trainz in that it doesn't seem as friendly. Some may find that statement a bit naÔve but to me personally it is definitely a true statement of fact. Railworks looks very professional and runs very smoothly on my system and seems to be well supported if you don't mind putting your hand in your pocket for payware add ons. But perhaps the foregoing is the problem (or at least to me).

Trainz has its glitches, crashes, download problems and patching problems but we've all come to know them, have our different ways in getting around them and dare I say it come to love them. They give us much talk and discuss on this forum which makes Trainz so much of our lives. However, above all that as rjhowie states for the small price of the product you pay it gives so many of us hundreds of hours of enjoyment and involvement, and to add to that hundreds of hours of fun.

That's how I feel, and I am now off to watch the football (Manu v Man city) which is the only love I have above Trainz. (Better not tell the wife that)

Bill:D

Vern
November 10th, 2010, 04:43 PM
RW2 is very twitchy.

As mentioned above I reinstalled it and against my better judgement thought I would start off a small route as a side project while working on my Trainz route(s). Ho hum, all going well until trying to add a section of track and I got the infamous lock up and "SBHH" message. Ctrl-Alt-Del out of it, go back in try the process again and same thing happens. Thought why waste my time with this nonsense when TRS is ready and willing to provide trouble free route building.

So I've kept RW2 installed on the main PC purely as a driving platform but I definitely do not intend to go back and do any more route building. I will stick with Trainz or, if I fancy a change, even look at reviving MSTS.

I notice on UKTS there are more reports of crashes and that RW2 seems far more twitchy with the longer routes than RW1 was...

Paulsw2
November 10th, 2010, 05:24 PM
... I prefer to think of my Routes as forever "Work In Progress"...

So pleased I'm not the only one! I've got three serious routes in progress, a Winter, a Summer and a Model layout, and I can't seem to 'finish' them so much so that I became quite depressed about route creation and considered leaving Trainz for a while. But I'm keeping going - I want to get these routes up to the DLS one day!

'Finishing' is the hardest thing to do in route creation. :(

Paul

rjhowie
November 10th, 2010, 07:40 PM
No probs with your comment at all there wholbr as it was well, positive! Glad you are of the same mind and feel what commented was right. As a kind of postscript can I add this?

When I tried MTS I had this thought of building the whiole former city tram system here which shut in 1962. I had a large map of every route but quickly realised the difficulty I would have trying to do it. My sudden hope was dashed then came Trainz and after some initial footering realised that my dream could come true. It might have meant covering most of the city and those suburbs that had lines (it was big -can see that on my website). I then for 2 years seen my old tramway system again taking the streets as if it was that time period again (before all the motorways). I have often laboured it one of love when i came across it as a wee boy living on a trunk route of 6 routes.

Sometimes I cannot believe that I ever finished that with routes all over the place. It is my tribute to the largest one that existed outside London. Now I am for my second big dive creating the whole rail system in Ulster which is a favourite holiday haunt of mine from me here in Glasgow. The enjoyment even allowing for the odd frustration and satisfaction I get never mind keeping the grey cells going is immense. Maybe i can't get the inventor The queen's Award for industry but would give him a medal!

Pure dead brilliant!

sniper297
November 10th, 2010, 10:23 PM
Well, I still think the Railworks world editor is the easiest AND the most versatile of the big three - but I uninstalled RW last spring when I got Trainz, never looked back. Problem is once you create a big beautiful route, what do you DO with it?

"I had a go at setting up a simple scenario on the Oxford to London route this morning and have driven on parts of the same route late yesterday."

That's what you do, set up simple scenarios and "have a run". Can't do anything else with it, the Railworks AI traffic is hopelessly retarded. It will never be fixed because it was never intended to simulate railroad operations, the game is designed for casual gamers to "have a run" and admire the pretty scenery.:n:

Alco_P-A
November 11th, 2010, 02:30 AM
more people getting into RW. I like it because it's more like real railroads and I like Trainz because it's more like model railroading. As a dealer for Trainz the first pitch I tell the customer is it's like model railroading only on your computer. Both RW & Trainz have their good points and bad,but they are both worth the money to buy and enjoy in whatever way you like. So buy RW & Trainz and have fun with both. That's what I do. I just enjoy both of them.
Alco_P-A.....www.bigboytrainsandhobbies.com (http://www.bigboytrainsandhobbies.com)

RiscaStation
November 11th, 2010, 05:32 AM
Hi,

I have Rail Simulator and RailWorks but left these for Trainz2010EE.
I find Trainz2010ee which is patched up to date very good indeed.
I also like the way TS2010ee will, from time to time, check the installed assets against the DLS assets for compliance.
Trainz rail simulator to me is an enjoyable Hobby with plenty of assets available to use without breaking the bank, I can't say that about RailWorks.
Both have good and bad points but over all Trainz does it for me.

Kind regards
Mike

rjhowie
November 11th, 2010, 08:16 PM
I would with respect say that there will be people taken with Railworks and each will always have their fans but for the general punter they want something easy and simple. This might not appeal to the more technical minded who like a challenge but the vast bulk I suggest are like me. The more techy person will not appreciate that the majority don't think the same way and maybe in all innocence. I am an intelligent person with a history of good jobs but I found Railworks a challenge compared to Trainz with a greater ease and slipping into. In practive I could never have contemplated doing the gian tramway system I completed or tackling a country's rail network in Ulster aprt from Trainz.

We can argue about the merits of authenticity - real-like or model rail like but it is that ease of mind and practice and the DLS thrown in that the mainstream like.

warrioroverlord
November 15th, 2010, 03:10 PM
With Trainz, I always feel something's off-scale, but am never able to pin it to a particular item(buildings or trains). Railworks doesn't have that problem, the camera makes you feel like a puny human standing by the majestic SD-40s, which are overshadowed by the even bigger grain silos....

I guess most people hate railworks here because they probably don't have a very good CPU/GPU. Content creation for railworks is easier than trainz and plugins are available for Gmax/Autocad. DEM and Lat/Lon are builtin the route creation system of railworks.

You can import a file with a bunch of GPS co-ordinates and railworks automatically draws lines connecting the points, which makes laying tracks very easy. There are programs available for free which interface with google earth and do this automatically along with importing basemaps. So I guess if you're interested in prototypical route creation, railworks is awesome.....

philskene
November 15th, 2010, 03:31 PM
"I guess most people hate railworks here because they probably don't have a very good CPU/GPU."

Absolute nonsense.

"So I guess if you're interested in prototypical route creation, railworks is awesome....."

Possibly true. But if you are interested in prototypical operations RailWorks is absolutely hopeless.

Mouse84
November 15th, 2010, 03:38 PM
Possibly true. But if you are interested in prototypical operations RailWorks is absolutely hopeless.

I have agree 1000%. As an engineer, I think it's junk, but that is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

warrioroverlord
November 15th, 2010, 03:47 PM
I have agree 1000%. As an engineer, I think it's junk, but that is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

But do you know if we could code it to work better on that front? LARS was user created in trainz right?

Anyways, can any of the veterans here tell me if theres anything odd with the scaling or if its just me finding trainz off-scale? I'm still a noob here, and I'm not sure if I have to change any settings in trainz to make it look realistic(Like the scale option in surveyor).

wholbr
November 15th, 2010, 04:14 PM
Hi Everybody.
Apologies for this thread being bumped up again speaking as the original op, but I too thought that it had run its course but as you can see it still seems to be causing interest.

As I said in an earlier posting I installed Railworks last week for one reason only and that was the pending release of the Bristol to Exeter route which I was able to download on Saturday (15 November). I have been able to spend some time in the last couple of days getting to grips with the simulator and the route so as a confirmed Trainz fan here are my initial impressions.

The Bristol to Exeter route is brilliant in every respect and worth buying Railworks just to get this one route I would state. It is my local line and and so I have traveled on it many hundreds of times. The scenery is definitely very authentic to the actual landscape and buildings and the only predominant feature missing I could spot was the large Victoria Park by the side of Bedminster station Bristol. So well done Just Trains for turning out such a great product.

I have created a fairly complicated scenario for the route based on the real-life 6:30 AM Weston-super-Mare to London HST timetable (one I have traveled on very often half-asleep). Setting up scenarios in railworks is far more complicated compared with the simplicity of Trainz session creation. It took me the whole of Saturday evening just to get a consist placed on the line at Weston-super-Mare and facing in the right direction. It then took me all of the day Sunday to actually master the intricacies of getting it to move and more importantly getting it to move to where you want it to go. It would be fair to state however I was interrupted for long periods by visits from the family etc.

Having stated the above once you have mastered the technique of scenario creation it can be fairly impressive in what you can do. The big drawback is that you can only travel on the consist you select as the driver train. No matter how many AI consist you create you will only see them in passing from the consist you are driving. I have found the foregoing a big minus as I like to travel as passenger on AI Trains as I know many others on this forum do, in that you will be let down with Railworks. Throughout any scenario you can only travel on one train and only then as driver. You cannot swap between consist as you can in Trainz

Overall as someone completely new to the simulator I would give it a fairly neutral judgment at present. I have not tried any route creation so far, so that is yet to come. I am informed that this is the weak part of Railworks and having looked at several of the videos on route creation it certainly looks as if that information is correct. That said I do love the Bristol to Exeter route as for the rest of it, well...we'll see, but at the minute Trainz still gets my vote most definitely.

Bill

sniper297
November 15th, 2010, 06:01 PM
"I guess most people hate railworks here because they probably don't have a very good CPU/GPU"

Totally opposite. What I have;

Model: Dell DXP051
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 2.80GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2046MB RAM
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp.080413-2111)
DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)

Video: NVIDIA GeForce 8500 GT 512.0 MB
NVIDIA Driver Version: 6.14.0012.5721

Sound: SigmaTel Audio
sthda.sys Driver Version: 5.10.4823.0000

Hard Drive: Maxtor 6L160M0 147.8 GB

On that system, Railworks runs much smoother than TS2010 given equal detail. Again, I find the railworks world editor easier to use than Trainz surveyor, but the railworks scenario editor is ludicrously complicated and clumsy. If you have a four track mainline passenger route with two way local/express lines where the AI trains never need to oppose or pass each other it works okay (but requires a LOT of setting up, debugging, adjusting timing, and rigid adherence to the schedule by the player), but for typical US freight traffic it's completely hopeless. If railworks had AI traffic that was even half as intelligent as TS2010 AI logic, then railworks would be my sim of choice. Since the railworks AI logic is worse than MSTS, for me that's a deal breaker regardless of how good it looks.

ex-railwayman
November 16th, 2010, 07:33 AM
Hello wholbr,

I cannot understand why you think of yourself as a traitor, I would imagine that there are hundreds of folks on this forum that have obtained at least 2, 3 or maybe even 4 different train/railway simulators over the years. This is our hobby, when all said and done, you spend your hard earned money on what you want to give you the most enjoyment in your real life spare time, it's hard enough in the present economic climate for all of us, so, if you get satisfaction from playing more than one simulator then good luck to you, there's lots more of us "traitors" around than you might think.....;)

Cheerz. ex-railwayman.

Beattie
November 16th, 2010, 08:48 AM
wholbr its ok to use different train simulators because you are always trying to find which one works best for you. Before I got trainz I used to try different simulators to find which one works best for me and trainz is just what I needed :)

DavidBrown
November 16th, 2010, 09:07 AM
I also downloaded the Bristol to Exeter route, and have to say that I'm very disappointed with it. There's no new Career Mode scenarios, for a start.

The attention to detail is non-existant - there's many, many areas that look nothing like their real-life counterparts, especially when you then go and set a scenario based in the 1970's with a 21st century layout. This is on top of Railworks existing problems of terrible sound effects, limited rolling stock and the extortionate fees to download new content.

I wouldn't mind the slight innacuracies so much if the fist paragraph they used to sell it to you was;

"This new route includes 85 all-new miles of track from Bristol Temple Meads to Exeter St Thomas, all painstakingly re-created brick by brick and mile by mile. Painstaking research of the route and its immediate environs ensure that this is one of the most realistic RailWorks expansions ever"

Erm, right - not sure that I want to see the less realistic ones!

NikkiA
November 16th, 2010, 11:35 AM
...
Erm, right - not sure that I want to see the less realistic ones!

That'd probably be Rascal to Cottonwood, another payware route, which is simply a pair of ovals with a pair of small yards inside them, straight out of the hornby layout book.

lewisner
November 16th, 2010, 12:54 PM
wholbr said "It took me the whole of Saturday evening just to get a consist placed on the line at Weston-super-Mare and facing in the right direction."

Hope you don't mind if I snigger wholbr!

It reminds me of MSTS where by the time I had figured out what to do the train had crashed!

ex-railwayman
November 16th, 2010, 02:33 PM
The only half decent aspect of RW in my opinion. Are the IHH locos that i purchased and if we had the same quality in Trainz.

I would never look at RW again, i probably won't anyway. :hehe:

Mike.

That'll be Paul Godber, Mike, he creates a mean locomotive that's for sure, his steamers and his diesels have gone down a treat, and the fact that he comes from Mansfield, he'll always get my support......:hehe:

You'll be back on RW soon enough matey, you've got to play with your IHH locos on something......:p

Cheerz. Steve.

meatloaf747
November 16th, 2010, 04:51 PM
Recently acquired Railwork 2. I've never had any version of Railworks/Railsimulator before. I've just loaded it and looked at the first route. I must say that I'm quite disappointed in it, especially the scenery. Just doesn't look quite right. Alot of 2d trees - spines set back from the track. Looks terrible. Far too 2d'ish...

Trainz seems to have a far better 3d environment. Especially with things like speedtrees. (far less cardboard cut outs looking)... I know speedtrees is still a "work in progress" but they look 100 times better than some of the 2d tree-lines in Railworks 2.

One thing I was impressed with was the animated engineer & fireman that was in the steam loco. Made driving the steam engine in external mode look far more realistic. It's a shame that the scenery lets the sim down so much.
Looking forward to the day we see more animated drivers, engineers, & firemen in Trainz loco's. (loco's without drivers/firemen, just don't look as real as loco's with)...
Would love to see someone come up with a simple solution to help loco creators add drivers - engineers - firemen to their existing loco's they have created, that don't as yet have them. (Especially if they are animated)...

To save me some time, could someone that is familiar with all of Railworks 2 routes that come on the DVD, please point out the best Railworks 2 route. (in their HO). That way I can have a look at the best route next & see how it compares to Trainz.
If it's as bad as the first route I looked at, then I'll immediately know I've wasted my money. Hey, with summer coming on, if the rest of the routes are as crap as the first one, I can always use the DVD as my new frizzbie... :hehe:
Cheers, Mac...

wholbr
November 17th, 2010, 05:17 AM
Hi Everybody.
Apologies for going missing on the forum for a couple of days but I had an unexpected journey up to London yesterday and thereforeI was on the 6:30 AM Weston-Super-Mare to Paddington I had posted about a few days earlier returning in the evening rush-hour which made it a very long day.

On that I would have to say that at the price of nearly £170 and due to rise again in January the only way the average person is going to be able to afford to travel anywhere in Britain by rail in the future is on a rail simulator. Thankfully my trip will eventually be paid for by someone else.

As the opening poster on this thread which I started as a bit of of a joke I still cannot believe that new postings are being made. Having said that, in answer to the debate on the qualities of Trainz vs Railworks my feelings are these.

It has often been stated by many on this forum that the majority of users view Trainz not as a game but a hobby. However, I believe that within all those who view rail simulation as a hobby there are two distinct groups.The first one would be those who view their hobby as lighthearted entertainment and who enjoy route creation and the general riding on and driving of consists without looking for too much prototypical authenticity in the routes they create or the Trains they drive or ride on. General enjoyment would be the main object of rail simulation for these users

The second group would be those that treat rail simulation as a far more serious hobby and look for the greatest level achievable of genuine realistic authenticity in all aspects of what ever simulator they are using or content they are creating. For them realism and authenticity is everything and the higher those two parameters are placed the greater the enjoyment they gain from the rail simulator.

I would place myself in the first group but this is no criticism of those who would view them selves in the second as achieving the highest levels of realism possible should also be the target of the simulator producers. However, having said that it has to be remembered that the producers of Railworks and Trainz have to create a commercial product which will produce a return for the company investors.

With that in mind any route produced can only have a limited level of authenticity if it is to be produced at a price that will sale enough to produce the above profit. Therefore the newly released Bristol to Exeter route criticized by some on this thread, cannot have the level of realism and authenticity they are looking for in a commercial market at this point in time. As I stated a significant landmark near Bedminster station namely the Victoria Park and the Victorian era Built school next to it is missing along with the old manor house and workers cottages so prominent near to Nailsea station, but in that I would not have expected the manor house and cottages to be there. However all the bridges, cuttings and embankments along the line are there so the route in my view achieved a higher level of realism than I expected.

I believe that most people posting on this forum realize that train simulators are a niche market and therefore sales volumes will always be limited by that fact. Therefore we all have to accept that the product producers can only provide to us standards up to the investment available.

Bill

ex-railwayman
November 17th, 2010, 05:34 AM
Hello Mac,

Can you tell us which map it was that you looked at please ??
I must honestly admit that some routes are pretty ropey, but, there are some good ones around and it depends on whether it was a Payware one, or, a freebie that's been created, as the quality standard is different.
And I agree that some of the default trees are very 2D-ish, I've already got a bad name by stating that fact, my name is mud on their forum with some of my honest comments at present.....:hehe:
Unfortunately, as the game is still somewhat in its infancy, there is an acute shortage of creators who are willing to get involved with the game, for whatever reasons, so, until route and content builders start supplying assets, we're stuck with the very few folks we have to rely on all the time. There are virtually no Australian creators at all, and only one New Zealand website who generates stuff for the game, so, we have hardly any content whatsoever from down-under, not a great deal we can do about it at the moment, we can't force people to join the clan, they obviously don't want spend their spare time getting to know the intricacies of how to build stuff in 3DS Max, Blender, Sketchup, etc, etc.

Their are some excellent creators from China who have offered us some magnificent steam, diesel and electric locomotives with appropriate rolling stock, and there is an authentic route being created at the moment, and it's all freely available, so, if you're into Chinese railways, then I would recommend having a look at what they've done so far for the community.

Here's a download website for their content, you can see for yourself the standard of what they offer, they're quite big sizes, minimum of 50-75 mb for each loco, that's due to the quality of the build, and there's more assets in the UKTS library. http://tsnz.galacticshare.com/china.html

Cheerz. Steve.

wholbr
November 17th, 2010, 10:18 AM
Hi Steve and Everybody.
You are perfectly right Steve when you state that there is a shortage of content creators for Trainz and Railworks. There is obviously also a trend towards payware creation especially where Railworks is concerned.

As we all know it can take many months of work to create a moderately sized route even to a reasonable standard of realism (18 months in my case). I also believe that there is a reluctance to place routes and other content onto the DLS by creators because of the possible criticism it may incur from some quarters if it is not to the standards they expect.

Therefore route creation and general content is falling more and more to commercial producers where as stated they will create to the standards that the budget for the project will allow. The foregoing will certainly not be up to what many on the Railworks and Trainz forums want and expect.

But that's business
Bill

ex-railwayman
November 17th, 2010, 12:35 PM
Hi Mike,

Yep, we all cannot understand why RS won't upgrade a lot of the problems that existed from day one, the core programme, AI, loco physics, etc, etc, our requests have fallen on deaf ears, I'm afraid. The new HUD, is mainly for all the kids on Facebook and Twitter who screamed for it, that hasn't gone down too well with many of the more maturer players, either. Everything is geared towards big business and doing things for the kids brings in more money, so, a lot of us veterans who wanted a decent game with more realistic features don't get it, the only top quality free stuff is done by the foreigners, but, half the Brit kids don't like German, Chinese or American content, so, what do us veterans do.......

If I had the money I'd start my own damn railway simulator just for adults and moaning, spoilt brat little kids will be barred from joining.....:hehe:

Cheerz. Steve. Take care matey.

NikkiA
November 17th, 2010, 12:57 PM
Hi Mike,

Yep, we all cannot understand why RS won't upgrade a lot of the problems that existed from day one, the core programme, AI, loco physics, etc, etc, our requests have fallen on deaf ears, I'm afraid.

...



Oh, it's quite easy to understand, let me explain it...

Until a few weeks ago, they simply didn't have the programmer staff to do so. RSC/RSDL is primarily a bunch of artists that had experience making payware for RailSimulator.

When they took control of the source code from EA/Kuju via Fund4Gamers they probably thought they could just ride along on the tailcoats and not actually have to improve the product, but instead use it to solidify their presence as a producer of payware. Somewhere they might have had long term goals to actually improve some aspects that would make it 'even better for payware'.

This situation is borne out by the fact that Derek has stated that Adam has been bothering them about core functionality that others clearly want (Super Elevation, better lighting, etc) for 2 years, and as far as I can tell, prior to the recent hirings, Adam was the only one of them that actually touched the source code, and that was likely resented by the others as it took him away from production of payware assets. The fact that the new UI and the career system have been in development for pretty much 2 years confirms this, IMO.

Now, they've hired people over the last few weeks, some of whom are proper dedicated programmers, and it MIGHT be that we'll see some changes once that investment has paid off (as a professional (ex) programmer myself, I'll point out that any such improvement due to these hires is likely to take somewhere from 3-6 months minimum from hiring programmers - there is a learning curve for any code base, and a wind-up period where the programmers will require a longer-than-normal time to get to grips with how the whole thing fits together and can be improved).

However, the bottom line is that RSC is *still* a payware asset production studio at their core, and Paul Jackson hasn't, IMO, shown any signs of having the vision required for actually improving the core product, so I wouldn't be running to the bookies to make any bet about them improving the core product measurably.

But at least they're now in a better position to actually try.

wholbr
November 17th, 2010, 03:05 PM
When they took control of the source code from EA/Kuju via Fund4Gamers they probably thought they could just ride along on the tailcoats and not actually have to improve the product, but instead use it to solidify their presence as a producer of payware. Somewhere they might have had long term goals to actually improve some aspects that would make it 'even better for payware'.

Hi Nikkia And Everybody.
I am sure Nikkia that everybody reading this will accept what you say as unfortunately what has happened, but it is derived from a system called "capitalism" and it is unfortunately the system that all Western countries run on. It means that no company will employee any person other than they absolutely have to. If you can gain a commercial advantage by buying other companies to gain their assets rather than develop your own, then that is what you do. If you think the above is rampant in the software industry you should try working in the road haulage industry where small long-standing companies are so often swallowed up by the big boys just to gain control of the contracts they have. The foregoing often leaves many long serving employees of these small companies suddenly unemployed after years of service that brought in the contracts that the multinational company suddenly want.

But there that's business
Bill:(

sniper297
November 17th, 2010, 05:05 PM
"Unfortunately, as the game is still somewhat in its infancy"

Original release October 2007, it's 3 years old.

"there is an acute shortage of creators who are willing to get involved with the game, for whatever reasons"

Actually it's chronic rather than acute, reasons are as stated above, core problems that will never get fixed.

http://forums.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?282911-Lost-All-Patience

That's the guy who made the one and only freeware US steam loco for RS/RW, there won't be any more of them from him unless they fix the AI traffic - and regardless of how many new programmers they hire (and they claim they've had programmers working on it all along) they're not going to fix the AI because they don't consider it broken - it does what they want it to do, animated background scenery.

The "two types" observation has been made before, the majority are the casual "have a run and explore" types, don't care about the core problems. The people who want realistic operations are a tiny minority of any simulator, but the overwhelming majority of that minority are the freeware content creators - if the game don't have what they want, the casual players don't get the freeware goodies. The formula is really simple, want more sales, you need more freeware creators making stuff, want more freeware creators you have to give the creators what they want. "if you're into Chinese railways" I'm not, but there you have it, RS/RW really wasn't designed for the US market.

lewisner
November 17th, 2010, 05:05 PM
Wholbr said "It has often been stated by many on this forum that the majority of users view Trainz not as a game but a hobby. However, I believe that within all those who view rail simulation as a hobby there are two distinct groups.The first one would be those who view their hobby as lighthearted entertainment and who enjoy route creation and the general riding on and driving of consists without looking for too much prototypical authenticity in the routes they create or the Trains they drive or ride on. General enjoyment would be the main object of rail simulation for these users.

Personally I don't regard Trainz as a game - "Far Cry" and "Call of Duty" are games. To me the appeal is the chance to try to to recreate something which you either saw fleetingly or never saw at all in real life. In my own case I am doing a sim of the Malton & Driffield Railway which closed in 1958 before I was born. I am sharing it with the Yorkshire Wolds Railway who plan to reopen part of the line starting next year.Photos of the line are few and far between but with Trainz it is possible to get a feeling what it was like to sit on a hill and watch trains pass by in the valley below, or stand at a level crossing as the goods went by. It's also a practical tool as I have been able to do them sims of what the proposed line "may" look like complete with car parks and so on.
A (non railway minded) pal says Trainz looks like a "cartoon" but when he does I simply talk Splines, FPS and GPU's to him until he shuts up and opts for a few pints.

http://www.yorkshirewoldsrailway.org.uk/

wholbr
November 17th, 2010, 05:54 PM
Hi lewisner And Everybody

Personally I don't regard Trainz as a game - "Far Cry" "Call of Duty" are games. To me the appeal is the chance to try to to recreate something which you either saw fleetingly or never saw at all in real life. In my own case I am doing a sim of the Malton & Driffield Railway which closed in 1958 before I was born. I am sharing it with the Yorkshire Wolds Railway who plan to reopen part of the line starting next year.Photos of the line are few and far between but with Trainz it is possible to get a feeling what it was like to sit on a hill and watch trains pass by in the valley below, or stand at a level crossing as the goods went by. It's also a practical tool as I have been able to do them sims of what the proposed line "may" look like complete with car parks and so on.

Hi Lewisner And Everybody.
Once more lewisner you have been able to sum up far better what I was actually trying to say. To me the appeal of Trainz is exactly the same as your own. With my North Devon route I have been trying to re-create the branch lines as they were prior to much of their closure in the 1960s.

Anyone who looked at my 18 months of very enjoyable work would say that it was not authentically correct to how the routes where laid out with regard to topography or even somewhat geographically. However, to me that is not the most important thing. The greatest imperative to me in creating the route is to capture the atmosphere and scenery of the lines as they were in the 60s. Yes getting the stations and surrounding buildings somewhat correct is imperative but also using my own imagination and little creative talent I have to bring about North Devon as it was at that time has with me precedents over everything else.

The above is what has created all the enjoyment I have gained from Trainz over the last 18 months in making the route and from riding along it as a passenger with my feet up on the desk and my evening glass of wine. That is why I put myself in the first group of Trainz users in my earlier posting, as I am in it for enjoyment rather than authenticity. However, I would never dare put my creation on the DLS as without doubt it would bring the world down around my ears from those who derive their enjoyment of Trainz from realism and authenticity.

Having said the above I very much respect their views in pushing for evermore realism. However, it has to be remembered that outside of freeware which appears to be reducing rapidly there is only commercial content both in the simulator itself and content creation for it. Therefore the level of authenticity and realism they will create will be governed by the return on investment they expect to get from the budget they put in.

But again that's business
Bill

meatloaf747
November 18th, 2010, 12:24 AM
Hello Mac, Can you tell us which map it was that you looked at please ?? Cheerz. Steve.

Gidday Steve,
Thankyou for your reply. The Railworks 2 map was; Bath Green Park to Templecombe. Session was; Bruised & Battered, driving the 7F Special. Could you please point out the best route & session in Railworks 2.
Thankyou also for the link to the Chinese Railworks loco's.
Cheers, Mac...

ex-railwayman
November 18th, 2010, 07:34 AM
Hello Mac,

The Bath to Templecombe route is one of the default layouts that came with the game, in essence, and in all honesty, all of the default routes were a bit of a hotchpotch utilising the default crappy trees and other scenic items that were only available when the game was originally released. However, now that various other scenery content has been created in the last 18 months, or, so, I've been able to adorn all of my default routes to bring them up to a higher standard by my own personal touches. The 6 best default routes in my opinion were York to Newcastle, London Paddington to Oxford and the Barstow to San Bernardino California, routes, along with the 2 German layouts Hagen - Siegen and Seebergbahn, as I love European trains. These were the longest layouts offering both freight and passenger train combinations, and you can use steam as well as diesel locomotives. On the German routes you can also utilise the newer German and Spanish steam locomotives, and of course the various electric locomotives and rolling stock now produced. The Castle Rock route was set in Denver, Colorado, this has also now been used by the Spanish and Chinese modellers who have released their own versions of this small route with Spanish and Chinese scenic items to match. We have a few Trainzy friends that have created content for the game, The Spanish on http://www.trensim.com/, Gor, also from Spain who has created a fantastic narrow guage route, some of the Russians, Iceman from Germany http://rail-sim.de/railsimnew/index.php/downloads and Josef Korecs from the Czech Republic, along with a few others, we now have a lot more trees, bushes, houses, apartment blocks, warehouses and factories, railway buildings, cars and other road vehicles, signals, level crossing structures, animated people for our station platforms, etc, etc, to place on our maps. Jointed Rail from America made some GP38-2 diesel locos that you can freely obtain from their site and there are now some reskinners who have jumped onto the bandwagon to offer us more variety from the various Railroad companies from the present as well as some "fallen flag" variants from companies that no longer operate. These are being generated on a fairly regular basis, and with the advent of a couple of other layouts, such as the Altenburg to Wildau, a true freeware route set in Germany by a Dutch creator called Siegfried A.Derks, who has made a lot of his own scenery assets for his layout, this obviously gives you more items to utilise on other routes as you see fit. His blogsite is here, he will be releasing an up to date version of his map soon that he continues to expand. http://sad-railworks.blogspot.com/
As with all 3rd party creators you have to visit various sites to obtain new content. It obviously depends on what you personally like to play with, for freebie American content then you can visit
http://railworksamerica.com/

My 2 personal favourite layouts are Burlington Northern Big Horn Sub Division and the Bay of Quinte, but, have a look at the others which are both small and extremely large and subsequently have a lot of freebie assets to go with them. Obviously the standard differs from creator to creator, only you can decide which are the best to play on, some of them have lots of scenarios for each route, others may have just put 1 or 2 in.

You can also have a look in the file library at http://www.trainsim.com/ for lots and lots of other freeware content.

For British content you need to go into the UKTS library, it's the equivalent of the DLS http://uktrainsim.com//index2.php (http://uktrainsim.com//index2.php)
On here are many routes for both steam and diesel, our lovely friend Big Vern Moorhouse has a couple of layouts, Heartbeat Moor (North Yorkshire Moors Railway) and the Sulitjelma Railway, which are extremely suitable for steam, coupled along with some other routes, The Port Road version 3, Leafy Suburbs version 2, the Crouch Valley Branchline, Aln Valley Railway version 1, Blyth & Tyne and South Devon Banks version 12, these are some of my personal favourites, you might not like them, but, until you view them only you can decide.
I almost forgot to say, but, a lot of freeware routes use Payware routes as a template (the Isle of Wight add-on), is an example, you might see this layout mentioned in the various "Read Me" documents enclosed with each layout, this has narrow guage tracks and lots of scenic assets that creators have used on their own creations, and as such is recommended you obtain to get the full value of the freebie layouts that utilise it.

Unfortunately, there does seem to be more Payware stuff around then freeware, but, if you don't obtain this then you won't be able to play with the newer routes as many of the creators have utilised the newer tracks, overhead electric gantries, etc, etc, on their creations. But, there is some freeware about it just needs a bit of time to explore around and see what you might think is suitable.

Give us a shout if you require anything else, I can give anyone a shopping list of websites to visit for both free stuff and Payware material, it all depends on what you all like to play with.

Cheerz. Steve. :wave:

Vern
November 18th, 2010, 10:47 AM
Heartbeat Moor (North Yorkshire Moors Railway) and the Sulitjelma Railway,

I actually produced a Sulitjelma for both Trainz and RW, though I must admit to preferring the Trainz version largely because the distant scenery looks better. Railworks has yet to achieve a passable distant mountain effect and if anything these look worse since RW2, something appears to have altered in the default weather files which make anything over 3km away look bleached out.

I fully agree with Bill (wholbr) regardless of whether you build in one sim or several, there is a little bit of magic when bringing something long gone back to life. That's why I produced the Sulitjelma, after reading an account of a journey over the line in an old HA Vallance book. Ditto my SMJ route for MSTS.

With regard to content creation, I think at least some of the problem is that many of us have been doing this for years thus even the most enthusiastically started projects sometimes wither and die. I certainly find the process much slower and painstaking than it used to be, maybe as a result of increasing age (50 next year!) or general slowdown in mental and creative ability.

lewisner
November 18th, 2010, 10:54 AM
Another good thing about Trainz is that you actually learn something about how rhe railway you are modelling actually worked.
When I modelled Sunderland station as it was in the 1960's I did my best to make the signalling as accurate as possible - I have the actual signalbox diagram in my collection so I numbered all the points and signals correctly. However when I tried to make a tain leave from platform 3 for Durham it simply wouldn't go. The reason was that the track layout didn't allow for it! I've had the diagram for over 20 years but looking at a diagram or photos doesn't help you UNDERSTAND how things worked.
Also of course in some ways Trainz is like a "skeleton" crossword puzzle - you have challenges of how to get things looking like they did in real life. So for example one signal is on the far side of the line for sighting reasons and I had to find out how to alter the Trackside Value to put it in the right place.
It all adds to the interest.

mezzoprezzo
November 18th, 2010, 11:43 AM
~snip~ Railworks has yet to achieve a passable distant mountain effect and if anything these look worse since RW2, something appears to have altered in the default weather files which make anything over 3km away look bleached out. ~snip~

Hi Vern,

Iíve not tried RW or RW2 (yet), but Iíve found that distant landscapes can occasionally also looked 'bleached' out in Trainz.

On my system it's caused by use of any highly contrasting sky. Itís particularly noticeable with bright blue and dark grey skies, particularly if good weather fog is set at, or near, maximum.

Apologies if you've experimented already, but if not it might be worth trying a neutral misty light grey or pale blue sky Ė you might find it will tone down the landscape and make it look realistic. (The landcape colour doesn't actually change, but the altered contrast fools the brain into thinking that it has).

It would be interesting to know if it solves the problem.

Cheers
Casper

boleyd
November 18th, 2010, 11:47 AM
The CEO is from a gaming background. He is used to catering to teenagers who enjoy dismemberment or exploring female anatomy. He simply cannot understand that there is a strong possibility that his game (RW) is boring. As Sniper pointed out AI is "animated background" to him and quite sufficient as is. Big Mistake!

The RW (Jackson) CEO fails to understand the potential of proper AI. Right now dedicated train drivers are "driving" trains up and down routes all lined with repeating vegetation and common objects. Eventually some of that group will become bored and drift off to other entertainment venues. However, if AI was brought up to a reasonable standard the "veterans" would begin to really create non-boring routes that fully interact with other trains and commerce just as happens on real railroads. The challenges of driving a trian would increase dramatically and be so close to reality that the gamer then becomes immersed. An immersed gamer tends to buy goodies to extend that immersion. However, the self-appointed CEO only wants to milk the current audience with payware in an effort to keep his company afloat and recover some of his investment. Until Paul Jackson emerges from his gaming world "what you see is what you get" for the foreseeable future.:'(

Of course I could be wrong (glad to eat crow) and he has seen the light. However, his dim light-bulb has so far not met some customers expectations and they ain't buyin his addons..

ex-railwayman
November 18th, 2010, 12:46 PM
Personally I don't regard Trainz as a game - "Far Cry" and "Call of Duty" are games.



Hello Alan,

Glad to see another veteran still here....:)

Oh, I don't know, Dick makes a very valid point, the CEO's of these simulators come from a gaming background, not a railway background, and to them the profit and loss balance sheets are all that they seem to be bothered about. I've just read a suggestion on another thread on this forum that Trainz may be going multiplayer, that to me points more towards gaming and the financial reward it may bring is more important than catering for all railway/train enthusiasts who want a more realistic authentic simulator. RW has already got Career Mode scenarios up and running to cater for the kids and those who just want to drive trains at unrealistic speeds to obtain points so they can see their name up in lights on the appropriate websites.
Sorry, matey, but, I think in a while a lot of folks may be deciding on whether to carry on accepting the way these simulators are heading or drifting away altogether to spend their spare time doing other things, and then most of the talented creators and veterans won't be around anymore to build stuff and help folk out for the new breed.

Cheerz. Steve, take care matey. :wave:

clam1952
November 18th, 2010, 01:51 PM
Hello Alan,

Glad to see another veteran still here....:)

I've just read a suggestion on another thread on this forum that Trainz may be going multiplayer, that to me points more towards gaming and the financial reward it may bring is more important than catering for all railway/train enthusiasts who want a more realistic authentic simulator.

It's just a sugestion by a few users not an N3V idea, OK there are a lot of posts but they are mainly from the same few people.

One of the supporters of the idea did a poll on it and it got very little response, I can't see much financial reward from a handfull of people. Doubt it would happen anyway without a major rewrite or replacement of the Jet Engine.

boleyd
November 18th, 2010, 03:22 PM
If I may interject once again - My point is that some attention to the so-called "veterans" breeds rewards for the "other" customers.

If the customer has a meaningful interaction with decent AI (as scenario'd by a veteran) it should improve their playing experience. This in-turn adds to the probability that more addon purchases will be forthcoming. A win-win with both camps gaining and RS profiting. There is a need to market the new reality and without that the added investment will fail. As has been pointed out most customers do not have the background to appreciate (read-spend addon $$$) running a real railroad. Thus without "telling them" about the features the attraction will not be there.

The same philosophy holds true for Trainz. The objective is to improve the simulation and the "game" while selling more addons or updates. This takes product management.

Evgeni01
November 18th, 2010, 03:24 PM
Hello,

I too own a copy of Railworks. I saw the screenshots and the fancy cover, paid £34 and installed it. It is no longer installed however. When I was on RW, the game still required time spent on it in term of creation, since all the goods yards are empty and every train is hauled by a 47 (York to newcastle 70s line).

I expected it to be, buy the sim hop in a train, and off you go into a pretty, realistic world and no hours spent messing with stuff like in trainz - but no.

Also in trainz - empty goods yard, need an 08 shunter in there, download it for free.

Railworks - do you have £20 for that shunter you wanted sir? Or better still the stock you want hasn't been made. The sounds didn't impress me much or the models that come with the game (tta looks terrible and the 47 ain't great), I started to get the feeling that RW would require a lot of time because the tools are hard to use and money - definitely a lot of money.

I then remembered the days of trainz 2004 when I had a 101 leaving the station and a 37 coming in, followed by a 20 with some tta's and an 08 growling in a siding, whilst I observed from the second deck of a stagecoach Leyland olympian RH - it was fun, everything was how I wanted, and did not require a wad of cash and a month for it to be that way. Like this community; it felt alive.

So I have bought myself a copy of Trainz 2009 for £7.50 and have just patched it now. I have yet to register it with auran, nV3 or whoever runs the show these days.

lewisner
November 18th, 2010, 05:57 PM
There are several videos of Railworks on YouTube especially of the new Flying Scotsman and they are quite nice BUT....it shows FS leaving Newcastle and I KNOW I shouldn't do it BUT.... I know the place better than the back of my hand and my eyes are running over it like an electron microscope thinking "urgh, that signal is wrong", "oohh that bridge doesn't look like that". And what the hell are those animated people like? They sound like they should be a good idea but watching them striding along an empty platform with that odd gait just made me laugh. :hehe:

sniper297
November 18th, 2010, 07:00 PM
Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXeCGBnTQq8

:hehe:

lewisner
November 18th, 2010, 07:30 PM
HA HA HA! I was going to make the Moonwalk comment but somebody already did! That's just weird "expects bad dreams tonight". :eek:

meatloaf747
November 18th, 2010, 11:18 PM
Hello Mac, Give us a shout if you require anything else, I can give anyone a shopping list of websites to visit for both free stuff and Payware material, it all depends on what you all like to play with. Cheerz. Steve. :wave:

Steve,
Many thanks for your long and detailed reply. I'll try and have a look at the two routes that are your favourites. I should be able to get a better idea of whether or not it is worth while downloading some of the bigger routes and loco's/rolling stock.
I want to get a better understanding of which one of the two sims is better, or where they are very simular, or whether one of them is miles ahead of the other...
Thanks again for the many links in your post. It will save me a lot of time when I go looking for what is current available. At this stage I'm only interested in looking at Railworks 2 freeware content. If it's up to par with TS2010 (or better) then I would consider buying some of the payware...
Happy Trainz.
Cheers, Mac...

RiscaStation
November 19th, 2010, 05:14 AM
Hi,


Nice video you made there sniper, happy days:hehe:

Kind regards
Mike



Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXeCGBnTQq8

:hehe:

ex-railwayman
November 19th, 2010, 06:43 AM
Steve,
Many thanks for your long and detailed reply. I'll try and have a look at the two routes that are your favourites. I should be able to get a better idea of whether or not it is worth while downloading some of the bigger routes and loco's/rolling stock.
I want to get a better understanding of which one of the two sims is better, or where they are very simular, or whether one of them is miles ahead of the other...
Thanks again for the many links in your post. It will save me a lot of time when I go looking for what is current available. At this stage I'm only interested in looking at Railworks 2 freeware content. If it's up to par with TS2010 (or better) then I would consider buying some of the payware...
Happy Trainz.
Cheers, Mac...

Hi Mac,

It would be unfair to suggest that one simulator is miles ahead of another, both, have their good and bad points. Obviously, as Trainz has been going for 10 years, it has far more content to choose from, which is only natural. As I already stated their is virtually no content from down under for Railworks2, unlike Trainz of course, so you can't compare any routes. The 2 major markets are Britain and North America, however, there are a lot of European layouts available, with scenic items to match, and I think they are all free, our continental cousins haven't caught on to this Payware marketplace yet, so, you can get tons of assets for nothing at present. And like Trainz, our European friends create some fabulous content.
Sorry, I should have already asked you, but, I'm unsure if you are personally more into steam than diesel, and do North American layouts appeal to you mostly, what is your preference ??

I can suggest better areas to explore if I have some idea of what you really like.

I would honestly say that due to the lack of scenic content and textures, etc, a lot of the very, very long routes may look a bit monotonous mile after mile, I think to obtain a better understanding of what the game holds you should stick to the small and medium sized routes to start with.

Cheerz. Steve.

Davie_UCF
November 19th, 2010, 09:40 AM
I love Trainz for how flexiable AI is. For example i've got a train which drops off coal, then a local shunter drops it off to the coal station while the train previous picks up the empties.. once the shunters done it puts the empties in the empties siding for the whole process to repeat an hour later! :)

Also working on a shunter that properly disects a consist and puts into different sidings and then makes a new train ready for a loco :)

So rewarding with near realistic results! If only Trainz looked more realistic aswell ;)

Vern
November 19th, 2010, 10:25 AM
Not forgetting of course that if you just want to chill for half an hour as a passenger and let the AI drive, Trainz lets you do that RW doesn't.

wholbr
November 19th, 2010, 11:06 AM
Hi Everybody.



Trainz AI = Very flexible and Proto Operations Are possible
RW = Next to useless and AI acts as moving scenery.


I love Trainz for how flexiable AI is. For example i've got a train which drops off coal, then a local shunter drops it off to the coal station while the train previous picks up the empties.. once the shunters done it puts the empties in the empties siding.
So rewarding with near realistic results! aswell


Not forgetting of course that if you just want to chill for half an hour as a passenger and let the AI drive, Trainz lets you do that RW doesn't.

I believe the above three quotes sums up exactly what I have found At the end of the first full week of owning Railworks. Trainz is so far in front of Railworks when it comes to AI operations that you could not even say that RW is in the same league. What is soul destroying is that you spend a lot of time setting up your AI Trains and then you only see them as you pass by with the consist you are driving or at a station. I have found that the foregoing is for me an absolute 100% killer when it comes to Railworks.

With Trainz your AI consists become very much part of your of your your session or scenario as it is known in RW. You can jump from consist to consist of all different types and take control of any one of them with no problem at all. With Railworks you are stuck with one train from beginning to the end of your run and if you want to change to anything else you have to go into session editor change the driver train and start the program all over again

To add to the above as Vern states you can chill out in Trainz with your evening glass of wine by just placing yourself in a carriage on your favorite route and allow trainz to do all the driving while you just watch the scenery go by. You can also change to different seats in the carriage to get the best view of the scenery you've created. Now that's what I consider as heaven at the end of the evening and what I shall be doing tonight at the end of a busy week.

You can't do that in Railworks and it cost me 50 quid to find out, so my advice to others take heed before you buy because as I have found AI operations is a big ticket item and one I did not appreciate until I purchased Railworks.

Bill

NikkiA
November 19th, 2010, 01:14 PM
Trainz High Res graphics on Locos\Stock & Scenery = Yes
RW = High Res graphics on Locos\Stock. But scenery Low Res


Actually, IKB, RW doesn't really have that much hi-res graphics for locos/stock either.

The whole thing falls over if you have more than a couple of 2048x2048 textures, as Mike Round's WD 2-8-0 and ROD 2-8-0 models showed. At first he used 2048x2048 textures for both the loco and the tender, and it would cause railworks to crash on about 80% of installs, regardless of how much video or system ram was present. He had to drop the tender resolution to 1024x1024 to fix it.

So I'd say, for all practical purposes, RW is limited to 1024x1024 textures except in extremely rare situations, whereas trainz will run reasonably OK with 2048x2048 textures used reasonably frequently (it'll all fall over too if *everything* has them, but for locos and carriages it'd probably be ok).

So there you go, one thing RW appears to have going for it, it doesn't :)

ex-railwayman
November 19th, 2010, 08:07 PM
Hi Everybody.
Trainz is so far in front of Railworks when it comes to AI operations that you could not even say that RW is in the same league. What is soul destroying is that you spend a lot of time setting up your AI Trains and then you only see them as you pass by with the consist you are driving or at a station. I have found that the foregoing is for me an absolute 100% killer when it comes to Railworks.

With Trainz your AI consists become very much part of your session or scenario as it is known in RW. You can jump from consist to consist of all different types and take control of any one of them with no problem at all. With Railworks you are stuck with one train from beginning to the end of your run and if you want to change to anything else you have to go into session editor change the driver train and start the program all over again

To add to the above as Vern states you can chill out in Trainz with your evening glass of wine by just placing yourself in a carriage on your favorite route and allow trainz to do all the driving while you just watch the scenery go by. You can also change to different seats in the carriage to get the best view of the scenery you've created. Now that's what I consider as heaven at the end of the evening and what I shall be doing tonight at the end of a busy week.

You can't do that in Railworks and it cost me 50 quid to find out, so my advice to others take heed before you buy because as I have found AI operations is a big ticket item and one I did not appreciate until I purchased Railworks.

Bill

Hello Bill,

Sorry, there seems to be some misconception here, you can jump from one AI train consist to another in Railworks, I've just done it on a couple of freight trains on the Newcastle to York layout. I don't know about travelling in a passenger coach though on an AI, I've never tried doing it, I'll have to have a go this weekend. You can travel in passenger trains if you are actually driving them, many of the coaches and I think the DMU's allow it. Some of the coaching stock will tell you if they are passenger view enabled anyway, so, you'll know if you can't sit in them. I can't quite understand why you'd want to jump backwards and forwards all the time between trains, you wouldn't know where you are on the map......:hehe: I think it's all down to personal preference, but, I also enjoy sitting as a passenger in Railworks enjoying the scenery as you fly along. You need to have a look at some of the videos on youtube for Railworks passenger views from coaches, there are a few good ones about.

Cheerz. Steve.

wholbr
November 20th, 2010, 06:21 AM
Hi Steve and Everybody.
Thanks for the reply Steve as I certainly hope you are right regarding being able to drive or ride in more than one consist during a Railworks scenario. If it's correct you have definitely made my weekend and a few other posters on this thread.

Having said that, I have just had another look through the scenario building material that came with Railworks and it does definitely state that only one driver train can be placed in any single scenario. You have to nominate that that by ticking the box in the driver setup instructions. From then on the consists has to be driven by the player and you cannot move to any other AI train that is in the scenario without changing the start setup.

The above is hugely different from Trainz where as I said you can move from consist to consist while the session is running or even leave the train at a station, wait and then board another train as it arrives either as driver or as passenger in a carriage letting the AI do the rest.

I hope I'm wrong and you are right but at the moment as far as I can work out that seems to be it.

Bill

Vern
November 20th, 2010, 10:07 AM
I have encountered a couple of scenarios in RW where you move between trains, these were created by Sly for his 9F release so it must work after a fashion. However I can confirm once you "click" on a train to take it over, you *must* do the driving even if sat in the passenger view, the AI will not do it for you.

Mike10
November 20th, 2010, 05:02 PM
You can also change to different seats in the carriage to get the best view of the scenery you've created.



The whole thing falls over if you have more than a couple of 2048x2048 textures, as Mike Round's WD 2-8-0 and ROD 2-8-0 models showed.



I do know that i hate the amount of LOD that is applied to RW models. Details like wheels etc seem to only come into view when right on top of you.

It all depends how you make things. My coaches and wagons have all of those.

You can change seats in the coaches (and the brake vans). They use 2048 textures and yet I've had 80 of them in one scene without problems. As for things popping into view, that just menas you have to setup the LOD carefully.

My website is here: www.rail-sim.net (http://www.rail-sim.net/)

Won't cost anything to see what I mean as there's a "try before you buy" version available to download.

Mike.

meatloaf747
November 20th, 2010, 07:44 PM
Hi Mac, And like Trainz, our European friends create some fabulous content. Sorry, I should have already asked you, but, I'm unsure if you are personally more into steam than diesel, and do North American layouts appeal to you mostly, what is your preference ?? Cheerz. Steve.

Hi Steve,
I enjoy both steam & diesel. If I had to choose between the two it would be steam. (1920's to 1960's era). I'm more into European routes, especially anything from Eastern Europe - Poland - Russia - China, etc.
That's not to say that there's anything wrong with North American & British layouts. There are some really great British & American layouts. It just that if I had to choose between the different area's, I prefer European loco's, rolling stock & layouts a little better...

It's a shame that there isn't any "down under" layouts for Railworks 2. I've had a chance to look at a few more layouts/routes in RW2 and now that I had a chance to set all the settings to "max", then some of the layouts look far better than I originally thought they might. I might have been a bit harsh in pre-judging RW2 before I had had a chance to have a good look at it. (I now think both sims have there good & bad points).

If you have any links to any good Eastern European content/routes, could you please either post them here, or PM me.
Thanks again for all you help.
Cheers, Mac...

ex-railwayman
November 22nd, 2010, 05:54 PM
Hi Bill,

As I have already mentioned, there is a severe lack of creators from a few countries, especially from Eastern Europe. I love the Trainz creators from Czech Republic, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Ukraine and Russia, they have built some wonderful routes, excellent scenery items and superb locomotives and wagons over the years, it would be fantastic to have the likes of Vendel creating content for Railworks, but, you just can't force people to join our club to help out, unfortunately. I agree that it would be brilliant to have some Polish steam locos running about, but, at present it seems a distant dream for a lot of UK rail enthusiasts using RW2.
I know that there is a Payware Swiss layout currently under construction with electric locos and wagons to match, but, that won't be finished until the new year. At present, we only have routes from Western Europe and Scandinavia available, mostly electric, of course, but, we can use steam and diesels on them. I'll have a look round all the websites, I think that the Russians have just released scenery items and animated characters, no layouts as such, the Chinese are still working on their route apparently, so maybe nothing released at the moment, but, I'll give you some information when I find anything useful.

Cheerz. Steve.

lewisner
November 24th, 2010, 04:40 PM
I was so interested by this discussion that I dug out my copy of Rail Simulator and installed it.After two crashes and about 1.5 hours I figured out how to make a train move and my reactions were -
1) Graphics very nice. Extremely smooth running and level of detail (all sliders set to max).S&DJR loco looked fantastic.
2) Nevertheless the builders of the routes seem to have an affliction common to some trainzers i.e the fences have to be about 3 feet from the rails and there have to be weeds everywhere - they don't realise that pre Railtrack lineside veggie was ruthlessly curbed by weedkilling trains.So, Darlington DMU depot was like a virtual jungle.
3) Signals - not much variety but those there were had great realism and looked dirty.
4) Gameplay - horrific. It really makes you realise how easy to use Trainz is. I eventually crashed into the buffers at Templecombe because I couldn't figure out how to alter the points.
5) I never tried the World Builder but may do so for my own amusement.

wholbr
November 24th, 2010, 06:17 PM
Hi lewisner and Everybody.
Having seen that the thread is still running and I have had Railworks for nearly a fortnight now I thought I would post some "medium experience" comments.

Well after all is said I have become quite attached to Railworks (which seems a big improvement on rail simulator as I remember it) and especially the Bristol to Exeter addon route. I have even made my first scenario for it and having encountered one or two problems in its creation I went on to the uktrainsim forum to get some advice (I really do feel like a traitor now).

With Railworks virtually everything you download is payware, but if you don't mind putting your hand in your pocket without doubt they are really good quality assets which install without problem or without getting the dreaded "faulty" that goes with the other sea of red assets on the CMP in my Trainz.

The scenarios are easy and quick to create once you get your head around the basic philosophy behind it. Moving about the map became my biggest problem as there is no "find object" command as there is in Trainz. However after obtaining advice on the beginners forum at UKtrainsin that was soon overcome when I learned how to use the 2-D map "click to go to" instruction.

On the downside I still miss not being able to ride in the carriages of my AI consists with my evening glass of wine but I am learning to live with it or when I am really pining I revert back to my North Devon route in Trainz and settle back for the ride.

I have not tried any route creation as yet but had the quick go at laying some track across a baseboard and a set of turnouts. That went okay but reading through the basic route laying guide I think I will be remaining with Trainz for that activity.

Having said all that and to sum up, I find Railworks very realistic and professional as a driving simulator. It is far more expensive than Trainz in that the only way to expand the basic simulator is through payware. However, it does grow on you as I am finding though I think that is mainly through the Bristol to Exeter route which I love and the scenarios I am planning for it based on the real-time tables for the route.

With the workload dropping off that I am doing for my former employer and the weather forecast being very bad for Britain over at least the next week I think I shall be spending a lot more time with Railworks and Trainz. That's when you think to yourself its great to have a hobby and for me that is rail simulation

All the best
Bill:D

ex-railwayman
November 24th, 2010, 09:16 PM
Hello Bill,

If you go onto the UKTS website here - http://uktrainsim.com//index2.php
you can download for free all manner of scenic items, routes and what not for both Rail Simulator (these items will work in the new Railworks version) and Railworks, go into the 2 sections in the download library separately, and have a look to see if anything appeals to you. A lot of the reskins/repaints for the locos and rolling stock, you will probably need the alias Payware version to run them, and you would obviously need to have the individually named routes installed for all the scenarios that have become available, BUT, everything is completely free of charge. There are tons of routes from all over Britain, including Ireland, and I would heartily recommend you having a good look at everything, each layout has a description and many list all the content that you need to obtain from this site to accompany it. I can also give you another site to go and have a look at a German themed route that has gone down a storm with Railworks fans of European trains, and again it is totally free.
There does seem as though everything is Payware in the game, but, I can categorically state to you that is not the case at all, so, don't believe the many people who scaremonger with ill-informed information, there's THOUSANDS of assets around freely available, if you know where to look, which will give you just as much enjoyment as purchasing Payware content, and much of it is of a very exceptional standard.
Also in the UKTS library are some American locomotives ( GP15, GP7 and an Amtrak F40PH ) and routes that you might be interested in, if you're keen on North American Railroads, of course, it's all worth viewing and they won't cost you a penny.

Cheerz. Transport Steve.

TGV_3
November 24th, 2010, 09:31 PM
I think these OpenRails is better between Train Simulator, but Never better these Trainz 2009 and 2010, and Railworks

wholbr
November 25th, 2010, 04:37 AM
Hi Steve and Everybody.
Thanks for the advice Steve on where to find freeware content for Railworks and to go along with your advice about Uktrainsim I found what I think is a fairly new site @ rw-trainsim which looks as though they have some very good freeware content especially the 158 which I am debating whether to download from there or buy one from just trains.

The installation instructions that I read on the freeware 158 look fairly complicated or it may be they were not well written otherwise I would have downloaded it last night. I do agree with you that there is a considerable amount of freeware assets available for Railworks although it seems to me that the majority of rolling stock and engines are payware but there are large amounts of re-skins available especially on the uktrainsim site.

Not wishing to get off topic, but with me when it comes to payware I do not mind paying for an asset provided that it comes as good-quality along with good service from whoever is supplying it. I always think that in buying assets you are helping to create paid employment for people and that is something that all over the Western world we are going to badly need over next few years.

I know not every Trainz or Railworks enthusiast is in a position to purchase assets but for those who are, why not support those who are trying to make a living through the hobby that gives so many of us the many hours of enjoyment that we love. There will always be the rail simulator enthusiast who creates freeware content in his spare time and puts it on the download station for everyone to appreciate and enjoy.

However, I would think that there could be at least some of those enthusiasts who become unemployed over the next few years (especially here in Britain) and maybe those enthusiasts will turn to making their assets payware as they may have little choice. In that if I can help them to start their own businesses or find employment in someone else's business by purchasing their products then I will do that, hopefully others will feel the same.

All the best
Bill

beaky
November 25th, 2010, 12:16 PM
Hi Bill, Many thanks for your original thread. I had never heard of railworks and have been facinated with the discussions.I started on Tr2004 and loved it,especially after SP2 with portals etc. I also built a N devon route from Taunton to Barnstaple. I then bought Tr2009and what a dissapointment,similar routes or the same,CM,favourites don't transfer to surveyor and ghastly trees. So I am thinking about railworks2 as feel trainz might have reached the end of the line,pun intended! All the comments have been very helpful but I am concerned about changing trains in AI,is this so,as i hop all over the place on my routes as I like to see what is going on. Please keep your comments coming.:)

JCitron
November 25th, 2010, 01:08 PM
Bill,

You're not a traitor. You're just exploring other venues. I was intersted in RW at one point too, but seeing what I have regarding the AI, and I can see that it really is no better than the original MSTS is, I'm going to stick with Trainz for now. I started with MSTS and moved over to TRS2004 in December 2004 and I haven't gone back.

MSTS did have some great routes and I did purchase a few payware ones. The authors did a commendable job with the resources they have to work with. I attempted a brief stint at route building and gave up after the errors and crashing. The activities were a bit amusing and I figured out how to edit them, although that crashed too.

So when Trainz came along for me, that put the end to my MSTS install.

I wish you lots of enjoyment with your rail sim no matter which one it is. Remember this is a program to have fun with and escape the world we live in. I too have kicked back and enjoyed a ride on my own route, which is now about 250 miles long with about 189 miles scenicked. Like you I have ripped out older sections and rebuilt them after I developed better track laying and landscaping skills. This is what makes this hobby so great. We can build what we want and take it apart without an additional expense or mess, which was the thing with a regular model railroad.

So tuck into that nice cozy seat with your glass of wine as your train rolls through the countryside, and enjoy the ride. :)

John

narrowgauge
November 25th, 2010, 05:52 PM
Beaky

You mentioned 'ghastly trees' and you have TS2009, you will find that TS2010 treats the old style trees much better and is in very many respects a better program.

As TS2010 is the latest version it should be the one against which TS is judged.

Peter

ex-railwayman
November 26th, 2010, 05:46 AM
G'day young man,

Nice to see you're still around assisting the young'uns, Pete, and as I have just re-installed my copy of TS2010 I couldn't agree more with you that it gives better graphical performances on the older trees and bushes, I have to admit that many of the Speedtrees have gone by the wayside, as I realised that I get better effects from my huge collection of trees from our creators in Russia, Poland, Czech Republic and of course, Jankvis, Dave Drake and falcon500, I'm really glad I kept these on a number of CD's now, they give so much more variety to my routes.
I would recommend that folks have a good look at the amount of content on the DLS that was originally created for TRS2006, etc, as it is better, in my opinion, than some of the newer stuff.

Of course, getting onto the DLS is a bit haphazard at the moment.....:hehe:

Have a great Christmas Peter.

Cheerz. ex-railwayman. :wave:

beaky
November 26th, 2010, 10:18 AM
Hi Peter, Thanks for reply. You are quite right and have set me a dilemma. Could you help with one more question. I have the settle & carlisle as an addon in 2009 would I be able to transfer it to Tr2010. I was able to transfer my routes from Tr2004 to Tr2009 so assume they would transfer to Tr2010. Thanks for helping the young'uns I am only 80! Cheers

NICKEL
November 26th, 2010, 10:34 AM
Hi Peter, Thanks for reply. You are quite right and have set me a dilemma. Could you help with one more question. I have the settle & carlisle as an addon in 2009 would I be able to transfer it to Tr2010. I was able to transfer my routes from Tr2004 to Tr2009 so assume they would transfer to Tr2010. Thanks for helping the young'uns I am only 80! Cheers

Just go into your Builtin area on 2009. Copy the snc.ja file and paste it in the builtin file area for 2010. Open your launcher and got to options and enter your CD key there. It will do a database rebuild and you will be good to go.

narrowgauge
November 26th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Beaky

Provided you still have the original files I see no reason why you can't install TS2010 and then install S&C to it. If you put the original files in the new TS2010 folder and run from there I expect it will find its way without help from you. Just make sure you have the serial key, if you have lost this, visit your profile which will have a list of all the serial numbers you have registered.

Peter

narrowgauge
November 26th, 2010, 06:25 PM
Ex-railwayman.

Trainz has been a constant in my life for 9 years now, it has kept me sane, exercised my brain and generally kept me young at heart. I will admit that I find the constant carping about Aurans actions upsetting, very reminiscent of the atmosphere just before the forum went down several years back.

Any way, that is of topic.

Cheers young'un

Peter

trainzamtrakfan
November 26th, 2010, 08:29 PM
Hi Bill,

No, no one should brand you as a traitor.

You purchased RW with you own money, for a reason you indicated.

You are mature enough to make your own decision about what you buy or use.

There are those in the :) Trainz Intelligentsia:) who will call what you did foolish, but, it's your money and your call.

Enjoy what you like.

Have fun,:)

I fully agree with this ; anyone can have whatever they strive for if they just PAY for it and not cheat their way to a game that costs very little in the USA

wholbr
November 27th, 2010, 07:35 AM
Hi Everybody.
With all the shouting and balling going on throughout many threads on the forum and this one still being on the front page I thought would give all the posters an update on my experiences with Railworks especially as a couple of members have requested I do so.


At the end of my full first fortnight as an owner of Railworks 2 my experiences are very mixed and at times tragically comical. First my expenditure on Railworks has been quite high with thirty pounds spent on the base game and 20 pounds spent on the Bristol to Exeter addon. To go along with that I have spent 35 pounds on three consists those being a class 101, a class 170, and a class 158. That makes a grand total of 85 pounds (British Stirling).


To be fair to the simulator not all new users would require the Bristol to Exeter addon, and there was a free download of a 158 on a third-party website but the installation instructions were somewhat complex so I decided on the payware version instead. Having said that I am very pleased with the quality of the assets and the simulator has not crashed on me at all either in general running or scenario creation.


The Routes that come with Railworks are good and varied but outside of that there is very little in the way of engines and rolling stock. It has been said on this thread that there are plenty of freeware assets available and that is true. However, as far as rolling stock and engines go I am of the firm opinion that payware is the only way to really expand your stock and to make running realistic.


I have not tried any route building as I have been concentrating on scenario creation trying to build real-time schedules on the Bristol to Exeter route as it runs today (you can actually do that in Railworks). It has gone very well with the exception of portals which I have found very difficult to master having tried over the last two evenings. There seemed to be a lack of tutorials for this “art” so I posted on the UKTS Railworks forum “beginner section” where I was directed to a written tutorial which seemed reasonably comprehensive.


Following the instructions I setup my brand-new class 170 has an AI consists nonstop Taunton to Bristol Temple Mead's. Following it on a test run in my class 166 player train my 170 ran out of Taunton to the portal just past the junction for Castle Cary and Wincanton and duly stopped at the portal and disappeared “ oh joy” now I am really up and running.


I then tightened up the schedule on my player train and set my scenario running for the first time as the completed creation at least as far as Weston-super-Mare. My 170 left Taunton station on the scheduled one and a half minutes before my player train on which I have to open the throttle fairly wide as I am supposed to be running a few minutes late. Then disaster, as I rounded the curve at the Castle Cary junction there was my class 170 just stopped on the mainline at the portal. As I was going 80 mph there was absolutely no chance of stopping and I careered into my brand-new 170 totally writing it off (mind you the crashes in Railworks are very good)


I mean, I would not have minded but with all the animated people they have in Railworks you would have thought at least there would have been a man out there running up the line and waving a red flag as I approached.


Well that's my experiences up to now. Still got mixed feelings, but as you can see I am thoroughly enjoying all the new learning.


Bill:D

Vern
November 27th, 2010, 04:07 PM
Bill - I'll call the breakdown crane and the RAIB...

wholbr
November 28th, 2010, 04:24 PM
Hi Vern And Everybody.

Bill - I'll call the breakdown crane and the RAIB...

the way I careered into that class 170 you would need a lot more than a breakdown Crane to deal with that. More like a dozen heavy lifting cranes and a fleet of ambulances queuing right back to Taunton.

After a weekend of trying I am still having problems with the portals built into the route and there do not seem to be many of them so they are difficult to locate.

I am now thinking of creating my own portals on the Exeter to Bristol route as i would then know where they are located and I could program them into my own scenarios.

Seeing as you have far more experience in Railworks I will be interested in your views.

Bill

Nb:-I know I should go on the Railworks forum but you do not seem to get many replies on that too problems of beginners.

Soret
November 29th, 2010, 05:25 AM
RW is cool, not like what auran doing, they are researching and upgrading their only product, making it more handy for every user, if I would know TRS2010 would #@&[ soo much I would just buy that instead.

If you didn't notice, those who are buying the new auran products, are buying nothing more then what they bought before.

=

Nothing new, just the name and look.

and at RW : They aren't takeing any profit from giving out new version and suspending download station for old time users, ruining their fun.

lewisner
November 29th, 2010, 01:16 PM
Curious little thing.....I recently decided to put my virtually unused MSTS, "Great British Diesels" add on and "Train Sim Modeler" on Ebay as one lot as I never use them. Got 7 watchers in about 10 hours and 2 bids about 40 views.
Encouraged by this I thought about putting my "Rail Simulator" on so I checked out who else was selling.....there are about 7 up for auction with NO BIDS and one guy has it "brand new and unused" for £34.99!!!!
Doesn't seem to have set the Ebay market alight does it?

wholbr
November 29th, 2010, 02:51 PM
Hi Lewisner And Everybody.
I am not surprised that there is not many bidders on eBay for the original Rail Simulator and I suspect that if people knew the truth about Railworks there would not be much call for that either.

The problem is that everything you do in Railworks is much more complicated than it would be in Trainz. Even setting up a quite straightforward scenario will in truth take you three times as long as any comparable setup with the Auran simulator. The major problem I have found is with AI consists. You cannot set them up and then ride along on them to see where any problems may be. With Railworks you have to set them up and then follow them with the player train to check that they run okay.

To those who say that there are good quality freeware assets available for Railworks my experience yesterday proved somewhat different and was one that many Trainz enthusiasts would have often come across. I downloaded a freeware consist from the UKTS.Site and installed into Railworks. I then went to use it in a scenario I am creating only to find as soon as I tried to run the scenario I was confronted with a whole list of faults and therefore it would not run. At least in Trainz you would not even have been able to install it into the setting as it would've come up in red.

With a bit of research it transpired that it was originally created for the original rail simulator and has not been fully updated to run in Railworks. Now as Trainz enthusiasts we would not recognize that problem would we.

So, if it had not been for the performance of Manchester United and the England cricket team i could well have left the weekend feeling rather deflated. However, due to the talents of our great lads I was left with the feeling that life is not so bad, and as for Railworks I can live with that.

I think it will say it all when I tell you I am back doing some work on my Trainz North Devon route tonight and it is like being back with an old friend.

To summarize, enjoying all the learning, as for the product becoming ever more questionable
Bill

UP5521
November 29th, 2010, 03:20 PM
railworks,questionable,maybe,and while trainz may not be the most perfect product,there is a difference,for instance,the huge number of freeware content for download and more that trainz has to offer,which is more than I can say for the other simulator that we are speaking of,why as far as I can remember,I played that game and let me tell you that I was not happy with the limited number of steam engines that came with it, so I came back to trainz and never looked back,so I think it is safe to say,that I think you was not a traitor!;)

Vern
November 30th, 2010, 03:24 AM
Seeing as you have far more experience in Railworks I will be interested in your views.

Bill



Can't comment directly on Bristol to Exeter as SWMBO has put my copy away for Christmas. Generally when I've put portals in my RW routes they've been at the furthest extents of the route and always with at least a train length between the last signal and the portal.

The situation sounds more symptomatic of the poor signalling AI where it seems trains in RW are actually being directed by some hidden node rather than the actual signal state. You should never have got a proceed aspect if the AI train hadn't cleared to the portal. I have seen AI trains ignore signals completely and in this case it seems we have a "wrong side" failure where the section is occupied but the player train gets a proceed aspect.