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Railwoodman
July 20th, 2010, 06:59 PM
looking for good place to get prints or plans for the Pennsylvania RR.:D Boxcabs and Steam.

RRSignal
July 20th, 2010, 07:04 PM
Here's a start:

http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?sel=ele&sz=sm&fr=

http://trainzresources.com/directory/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=279

Railwoodman
July 20th, 2010, 08:16 PM
Thanks for your speedy reply. These sights are great and my personal favorites. But, I need more detail or close up picts of the truck and cab tops on L6, P5 and 01A. Any help would be greatly appriciated
:cool:

RRSignal
July 20th, 2010, 08:35 PM
If you have access to it, try to look at Pennsy Electric Years, Vol. 2, by Bert Pennypacker. See pages 8 and 19 for the L-6 and P-5. I'm not sure what the 01a is, but there are quite a few shots of each, plus the aforementioned L-6 schematic.

Railwoodman
July 21st, 2010, 02:34 PM
Thanks again. I may even have that one and just forgot about it. I have alot of the later years but not of the early ones. I'll just keep looking

on30gn15
July 21st, 2010, 03:05 PM
In 1987 N. J. International, INC., a supplier of brass HO models and other parts published ELECTRIC LOCOMOTIVE PLAN AND PHOTO BOOK, ISBN: 0-934088-18-7.

It has a lot of what is required.

Most all are HO scale line drawings.
A good number are dimensioned.
B&W and color photos.

Working from aft to forward:
FF-2
R-1
P-5
L-5sl
L-5
B-1

Also has
N&W LC-1, NYC P-2, NYC Class S, NYC Class R, NH EP-2, NH EY-2,, NH EF-1, NH EP-1, IT Class D, IT Class B, GN Y-1a, GN Y-1, GN ca.1909 Alco/GE, GT Ry ca.1908 #1300-1309, MILW EP-1A, MILW EP-1 & EF-1, MILW ES-2, B&M ca. 1910 Hoosac Tunnel units.

Also try PRR Technical & Historical Society.
http://www.prrths.com/
Offer to be a paying member for a year and tell them up front you are after specific info. They'll understand.

This'll tell a bit about the O-1
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/O-1.shtml

PWeiser
July 21st, 2010, 03:17 PM
I recently got a copy of

http://www.amazon.com/Electric-Locomotive-Plan-Photo-Book/dp/0934088187/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279742644&sr=1-1

which is a 1987 product. It has (if I remember correctly - don't have it to hand at this moment and was more interested in the NH equipment) both P5 variants, the O1 and the B1. Side and front elevations, no top views, but good scale drawings and photographs. Also the GN Y-1, which became PRR. Price for a not-quite-mint example is not outrageous. I can send table of contents later if you're interested in getting your own copy.

First edition of "When the Steam Railroads Electrified" has some photographs, but mostly from ground level.

(This is the same book as cited immediately above - beat me to it!)

Railwoodman
July 21st, 2010, 04:09 PM
Thanks to both of you.:D PWeiser yes please post the table of content. I will be intrested in buying it. Thanks again. I'm going to buld one of these for 06. With help from my son.I'm surprized that no one has tryed to make one or all. And for all the great content that I've DL, it my turn to contribute. Thanks again for your replys:wave:

on30gn15
July 21st, 2010, 04:22 PM
I'm surprized that no one has tryed to make one or all.

As you know in this culture, power is in direct proportion to loudness - if it ain't noisy, then it's a weakling. :p
White coal doesn't exactly shake the neighbor's house with the sub woofers.

PWeiser
July 21st, 2010, 05:56 PM
Railwoodman - on30gn15's list is the complete table of contents. The book focuses pretty tightly on boxcabs except for the GN Y1 conversion and the P5a. What I would personally like to build is an E33/NH EF-4. Plans are available; at the moment I'm playing with converting my roster of homemade NH early boxcab electrics from UTC to TS2009 (and running them, of course).

on30gn15 - It's a poser, why not many people today care (or even know) about American heavy electrification. The Cascades and PRR electrifications helped a lot in winning WW2, but American distances are just too great for a fixed plant like that to become as extensive as in Europe, I guess. And you're right, they're not noisy, don't belch a lot of smoke and have few visible moving parts. But let's recall the periodic PR shows when the latest electric loco showed what it could do by pulling one or two large steam engines quietly backward in a staged tug-of-war.

Think we should start a thread in the Prototype area on North American mainline electrics?

Railwoodman
July 21st, 2010, 10:10 PM
Yea I'm all for that, but from what I,ve read in the form theres not alot of interested in the Box cabs.but it only takes two. And when I have something worth showing I will post in freeware. I hope to have something in a week. I 'm also a fan N H EP-2,EF-1,EF-2 I had UTC and don't remember any BoxCabs excect the Milwaukee,are they repanits? Or all your work. I had my own GE repaint from paintshed, but for some reson When I transfer my 06 to a new CPU I lost all of them. Or they wont show up under my name.
As for noisey As a young boy standing at the Edgemore St north of Wilmington three P5s made the earth move with aloud humm of 25k power. And GG1s were even louder pulling fright. I'll post some pics soon. And thanks for the replys:D

PWeiser
July 22nd, 2010, 07:06 PM
Railwoodman -

Whitepass's MILW EF-1s are about it and a very nice job, though there is a French boxcab similar to an EP-3 out there. I built my own NH EP-1, EF-1 and EY-2 plus a couple of passenger cars and a Westchester coach during the past few weeks in UTC (version 1.5) and have upgraded them to work in TS2009 compatibility mode with a few tweaks (transparent windows and selectable road numbers). After reading your post I checked to make sure they hadn't somehow sneaked into the Download Station (strange things happen on the Web!) but they have not... they're definitely not ready for prime time, the EP-1 is badly out of scale, for example. I'll post them there once they're upgraded to full TS2009 standard, but that could be a long climb. I would not be satisfied to have them seen in public with the GG1 interior, for example.

Question for staff: are we allowed to "privately" exchange runnable models via email or whatever that aren't ready for DLS, to get tips and comments for improvement? There is, of course, the risk that they'll escape into the wild.

Here's a suggestion: someone should build a NH EP-3 on GG1 bogies, with GG1 pantographs (from the pre-installed bucket). The end platforms won't rotate quite right, but otherwise it's a pretty simple project. Make the texture map simple and obvious so downloaders can skin it for other roads in a paint program. That might generate some interest. It would need to be in full TS2009 bib and tucker to get on the DLS.

My father used to watch trains in the Enola yards.

Railwoodman
July 22nd, 2010, 08:33 PM
I can't remember who and can't find it on the forms. But someone did start a NH Boxcab for 06.Not sure which one though. But like alot of the time it ether never got finished or just faded away. And I know theres more then one for MSTS. I was hoping that it would show up in 06 so I could reskin it.Thats what the PRR tested that led to the GG1. One of the resons why I'm going to make a BoxCab, we need more of them. Whitepass did a CN. that I reskined. But I can't get it to show up.Tune has done a great job for the Milwaukee road elec. And will be the reson I'll be gtting 2010.:D

Like you thats the reson I never posted my work, it never looked finish in my eyes. And I was still learning the ropes of g-max. Which I sill need work on. My son has given me a kick to try better with help.As soon as i get my reskins to show up I'll post sum pics. and if you want I'll send you a copy.

I had the same idea for FF-2 but the trucks are wrong. the EP-3 would be a better canadate.Will look into that as a side exp.

Thank again for the sites. they have been a great help to me.:D

RRSignal
July 22nd, 2010, 08:57 PM
Question for staff: are we allowed to "privately" exchange runnable models via email or whatever that aren't ready for DLS, to get tips and comments for improvement? There is, of course, the risk that they'll escape into the wild.

I don't think you have anything to worry about; Auran has no authority outside the DLS.

PWeiser
July 22nd, 2010, 10:00 PM
RRSignal - It's not Auran's contractual authority I'm worried about. I'd like to conform to their content/business model because, as a recovering programmer, I have great respect for version control and the havoc that can be caused by old works-in-progress that pop up in the compiled source code unexpectedly.

Railwoodman - Sounds like I should at least submit a model or two that isn't totally to my liking if it's an unusual prototype in which people might be interested... with the promise of upgrades. Trouble is, I don't have any intermediate versions of Trainz between UTC and 2009... don't know if DLS would accept an "enhanced UTC" or "2009...compatibility mode only" model! The import function won't accept .im meshes for UTC, so I'd have to try tricking it into thinking it was 2004 or something... better not to game the system? Has anyone tried this?

on30gn15
July 22nd, 2010, 10:03 PM
Think we should start a thread in the Prototype area on North American mainline electrics?

Count me in!


But let's recall the periodic PR shows when the latest electric loco showed what it could do by pulling one or two large steam engines quietly backward in a staged tug-of-war.
Have read the "one hour overload" ratings on some of those old traction motors would allow some pretty impressive stuff to be done.

--> question is, how would people accept some of the early AC jobs where you had all of 3 speeds to select from?

Okay, wasn't just the AC - just went flipping through some books, Virginian's old DC beasts had the choice of 14 or 28 mph. That was it. 14, 28, or Off.

--> Which brings to mind pantograph thing - keep seeing GG-1's forward pans raise when it has been written that they, and some of the MILW too, most often used the aft pans in case of unforseen situations tangling the pan and it being forcibly removed from the carbody - the still lowered fwd one would have avoided becoming entangled.

That bugs me.

PWeiser
July 23rd, 2010, 10:01 AM
That info on using the aft pantograph is correct for NH as well as PRR - nearly all photos agree. When I remember to raise them at all while driving (blush) I hit the pantograph button twice for the NH and GG1 locos to get this effect.

But in TS2009 (and presumably other versions which have a named AI driver) the first thing the driver does when he starts a train is turn on the headlight and raise the *forward* pantograph. As scriptable as TS2009 is, there's probably some way to alter this...

But maybe there's also a design-level fix for locos to which we have the mesh: reverse the names of attachment points a.pant0 and a.pant1. This is only a *maybe* fix because we don't actually know how the implementing code is written: it may not say "Run the animation at a.pant0 one time," but "Run the animation at the pant# nearest a.limfront one time." Or having a.pant0 aft of a.pant1 may break something at compile-time, causing the loco to roll on its back and explode. What seems logical to people using software is often not the logic used by its writers!

I'll try this in a few hours and report results.

(Update) That worked (a.pant0 in the rear) in both UTC and 2009 compatibility mode: when told to drive, Adair flipped on the headlight and raised the rear pantograph like he'd been doing it for years (under a section with no overhead wires, to make the results easier to see):

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7427/ef1working.jpg
We should probably included a note to that effect in the description of submitted locos so configured ("normally run with rear pantograph up") to avoid surprises.

As for challenges to the driver, don't forget the earliest electrification of the Great Northern's Cascade tunnel: the 3-phase induction-motor boxcabs had three speeds: 15.7 mph, stop, and 15.7 mph in reverse! It was found you had to use some brake when starting to avoid tearing the drawbars out...