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Danieldd4
April 27th, 2010, 08:55 PM
Well as I have said before I am new to this and loving it.. I downloaded Port Ogden and Northern 2a By Philskene and WOW! :D Kudo's to Phil! Beautiful work and I only had about an hour to spend with it tonight.

It is almost to much I have no idea where to start with things as far as laying out trains and cars and such Man it will keep me busy for months I am sure

Tanvaras
April 28th, 2010, 03:36 AM
Hi mate,

Phils layouts are alot of fun indeed. Phil has a great talent of making very interesting routes and he has sessions for 99.9% of his routes (on DLS) well worth grabbing them and trying them all out. They keep me busy for hours and hours.

Cheers

Trent

mattm
April 28th, 2010, 04:21 AM
I agree 100 percent. Phil's routes are indeed beautiful works of art. They keep me busy, and i haven't even tried to run a session on them. Reworking Urban Industrail 8a to allow simple AI shunting/interchange operations is keeping me occupied at the moment.

Thank you Phil. The workout for my brain is much appreciated:Y:.

Danieldd4
April 28th, 2010, 06:30 AM
Hi mate,

Phils layouts are alot of fun indeed. Phil has a great talent of making very interesting routes and he has sessions for 99.9% of his routes (on DLS) well worth grabbing them and trying them all out. They keep me busy for hours and hours.

Cheers

Trent


I agree 100 percent. Phil's routes are indeed beautiful works of art. They keep me busy, and i haven't even tried to run a session on them. Reworking Urban Industrail 8a to allow simple AI shunting/interchange operations is keeping me occupied at the moment.

Thank you Phil. The workout for my brain is much appreciated:Y:.


Hi (from the USA ) That is if the both of you are not from US :) What are the names of some of his other routes? I would love to take a look at some more......

I did have an error last night using the "navigate to" command for an AI train It said "No path Multiple mains started" Either of you know what this might be or if I am doing something wrong? I did get the train to nav to a different location and it worked but in a few spots it backed up rather then taking a forward route So I have a lot of things to practice with.

Also I am already noticing I would like to up the speed limit in a few spot but don't see any speed limit signs to change most speeds seem to be set at 40 unless in a yard

Tanvaras
April 28th, 2010, 07:08 AM
Some of Phils routes, Do a search in Content manager with his user name : philskene

But some are :

Harbor master

Port Ogden & Northern

Riverside Railroadco

Downtown Traction Company

Many versions of Indust rail etc, Best do a search on his user to see the amount he has available. I have most and they are all great fun.

Speed is done via invisible speed signs if I remember rightly on his routes. Open one up in surveyor and take a looksee :)

Cheers

Trent

mattm
April 28th, 2010, 07:57 AM
Greetings Danieldd4, from the wonderful land of Oz:wave:. As tanvaras says, a search of the DLS under username Philskene will yeild a fair few results. I highly suggest either DowntownTractionCo1a or Urban Industrail 8a. i have those two, among others, but they have to be my favourites.
Your AI related problems, although i don't know what the message means, would most likely have to do with the way Phil signals his routes, being that only the junctions where the AI and Player trains cross,and the AI paths, are signaled, and only basically at that.
As is stated in the readme, included in the route folder which is accessed from CMP-by opening route for edit- speeds are set for a max of 40mph/65kph. (Meaning he couldn't be bothered putting in speed signs!:hehe:)
As i mention, my attention is on setting up the route to allow for basic AI maneuvers, including Interchange and industrial shunting.
This is likely to involve a complete rework of the signaling on the route, as well as adding plenty of trackmarks and triggers. NOT a task for the faint-hearted.

Adieus, Matt.

Danieldd4
April 28th, 2010, 08:07 AM
Greetings Danieldd4, from the wonderful land of Oz:wave:. As tanvaras says, a search of the DLS under username Philskene will yeild a fair few results. I highly suggest either DowntownTractionCo1a or Urban Industrail 8a. i have those two, among others, but they have to be my favourites.
Your AI related problems, although i don't know what the message means, would most likely have to do with the way Phil signals his routes, being that only the junctions where the AI and Player trains cross,and the AI paths, are signaled, and only basically at that.
As is stated in the readme, included in the route folder which is accessed from CMP-by opening route for edit- speeds are set for a max of 40mph/65kph. (Meaning he couldn't be bothered putting in speed signs!:hehe:)
As i mention, my attention is on setting up the route to allow for basic AI maneuvers, including Interchange and industrial shunting.
This is likely to involve a complete rework of the signaling on the route, as well as adding plenty of trackmarks and triggers. NOT a task for the faint-hearted.

Adieus, Matt.


Thank you for your information

Danieldd4
April 28th, 2010, 08:10 AM
As is stated in the readme, included in the route folder which is accessed from CMP-by opening route for edit- speeds are set for a max of 40mph/65kph. (Meaning he couldn't be bothered putting in speed signs!:hehe:)


Adieus, Matt.

So do I take this to mean that I being a newbie can not change the speeds -- or if I do install speed signs will they over ride max speed?

Danieldd4
April 28th, 2010, 08:10 AM
So do I take this to mean that I being a newbie can not change the speeds -- or if I do install speed signs will they over ride max speed?


Maybe this just means that rather then being lazy I should read the read me file LOL .... You can tell me that too

mattm
April 29th, 2010, 02:06 AM
Danieldd4, i'll answer in the order posted.

No 1. No probs, just returning the favour. Just don't lean to heavily on me, i still have plenty to learn.:hehe:

No 2. Yes, you can exceed the default speed, just don't go to fast, especially if you've overridden the default physics in some way. As i mentioned, thrice now, i am starting to rework the signals, and add in speed boards to the route, as i would like to go faster than 40mph, too.

No 3. Yes, you are being lazy, but hey, you're only human. Nobody can claim, with any credibility, to be perfect. Adding speed boards will overwrite the default speed, but depending on the route you're using, this could be an undertaking and a half.
I do suggest you take a look at the readme; Phil provides basic instructions on setting up industries and portals for use. There should also be a map or two included in the route folder. PRINT THESE OUT! They are invaluable if you intend on downloading any of the sessions available, or even creating your own.
The fact that Phil leaves industries named as their default (BI Grain 2, ect) seems to be another failing in what are otherwise great routes. (No offense Phil, just saying:D.)

Hope this helps. Ciao, Matt.

philskene
April 29th, 2010, 02:12 AM
Hi Danieldd4 --

As has been suggested above, go to the Download Station, here:

http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS.php

and search with "philskene" as the "Username". Make sure a tick is against TRS2004 in the column "Trainz Version".

For PO&N v2 it will help if you have the documentation package, download with a mouse click here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/219148225/PortOgden_2_Documentation.zip

You might have to wait a few moments for a vacant free Rapidshare slot.

The package includes detailed maps of the route and, if you want to learn more about LARS and ProtoLARS, an illustrated guide to interactive industries and freight cars.

For sessions for PO&N v2 see here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=54878&highlight=ogden

Earlier versions of my routes used Track Direction Markers to prevent the AI trainz from accessing the player track. If you are trying to run AI trainz to an industry or other location on the player track these direction markers will result in a message that a path cannot be found.

However, with the changed signaling logic in TS2009 I had to remove all the direction markers otherwise the AI trainz would not work as intended. So if the description of the route uses words like "This route is is for Trainz 2004, 2006 and 2009" you will know that it does not have direction markers and you can program the AI to go anywhere.

If you haven't found it yet, my favorite route is Downtown Traction, see here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=44252&highlight=downtown

and here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=44962&highlight=downtown

There are sessions for v1 of the route on the Downlaod Station. Sessiosn for v2 will come "soon".

For small electric locomotives suitable for this route, go here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/353145893/Loco_Switching_HM_DTC_kDB_EB01_EB03_keimei.zip

http://rapidshare.com/files/278363892/Loco_Y_S_Boxcab.zip

http://rapidshare.com/files/266431725/DTC_TemII_V41_Locos_Euro_Electric_Modified.zip

You might also like "IndustRail":

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=18339&highlight=industrail

Regards,
Phil

Edit:

Hi Matt --

"The fact that Phil leaves industries named as their default (BI Grain 2, ect) seems to be another failing in what are otherwise great routes."

Yes, I recognized that "failing" (no offense taken). The latest versions of the routes now have a logical naming of all the industries.

The default 40mph for the AI is because the routes are, essentially, secondary lines where anything faster would be seen as excessive and possibly dangerous to life and limb.

mattm
April 29th, 2010, 02:35 AM
Phil: Glad to hear you can take criticism gracefully. Having named industries makes it easier for newbies such as myself to get around, as well as, from a session creation point of view, working out what commodities each spot requires. This, in turn, lets you work out what rolling stock is required. I could go on, but i feel i have made my point.

Again, no offense was meant, and i hope i did not ruin your evening too much.

Matt.

Edit: While i have your attention, there was one question i had, with regards to Austral Bay 2a, if that's alright? What is the purpose of Xacto Minerals, and the Concetrator at Xacto? What commodities would they ship and recieve?

Thanks again,
Matt.

Danieldd4
April 29th, 2010, 04:51 AM
Hi Danieldd4 --

As has been suggested above, go to the Download Station, here:

http://www.auran.com/TRS2004/DLS.php

and search with "philskene" as the "Username". Make sure a tick is against TRS2004 in the column "Trainz Version".

For PO&N v2 it will help if you have the documentation package, download with a mouse click here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/219148225/PortOgden_2_Documentation.zip

You might have to wait a few moments for a vacant free Rapidshare slot.

The package includes detailed maps of the route and, if you want to learn more about LARS and ProtoLARS, an illustrated guide to interactive industries and freight cars.

For sessions for PO&N v2 see here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=54878&highlight=ogden

Earlier versions of my routes used Track Direction Markers to prevent the AI trainz from accessing the player track. If you are trying to run AI trainz to an industry or other location on the player track these direction markers will result in a message that a path cannot be found.

However, with the changed signaling logic in TS2009 I had to remove all the direction markers otherwise the AI trainz would not work as intended. So if the description of the route uses words like "This route is is for Trainz 2004, 2006 and 2009" you will know that it does not have direction markers and you can program the AI to go anywhere.

If you haven't found it yet, my favorite route is Downtown Traction, see here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=44252&highlight=downtown

and here:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=44962&highlight=downtown

There are sessions for v1 of the route on the Downlaod Station. Sessiosn for v2 will come "soon".

For small electric locomotives suitable for this route, go here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/353145893/Loco_Switching_HM_DTC_kDB_EB01_EB03_keimei.zip

http://rapidshare.com/files/278363892/Loco_Y_S_Boxcab.zip

http://rapidshare.com/files/266431725/DTC_TemII_V41_Locos_Euro_Electric_Modified.zip

You might also like "IndustRail":

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=18339&highlight=industrail

Regards,
Phil

Edit:

Hi Matt --

"The fact that Phil leaves industries named as their default (BI Grain 2, ect) seems to be another failing in what are otherwise great routes."

Yes, I recognized that "failing" (no offense taken). The latest versions of the routes now have a logical naming of all the industries.

The default 40mph for the AI is because the routes are, essentially, secondary lines where anything faster would be seen as excessive and possibly dangerous to life and limb.

Phil great work! thanks for the help

And matt thank you as well! :)

philskene
April 29th, 2010, 05:46 AM
Matt --

"Edit: While i have your attention, there was one question i had, with regards to Austral Bay 2a, if that's alright? What is the purpose of Xacto Minerals, and the Concetrator at Xacto? What commodities would they ship and recieve?"

Sure - questions are always welcome.

Some types of steels, for example stainless steels and tool steels, require the addition of chromium, vanadium and other mineral ores.

The Xacto 1, 2 and 3 mines are a source of these minerals. The ores are taken from the mines to the Xacto concentrator for concentration and calcification, and then shipped to the steel works at VanDenH where they are added to the feedstock (iron ore, coal (actually coke), limestone and scrap iron), here:

(Note to Mods - the image is compressed.)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b392/nineercharlie/PON%201/06_1.jpg

The chemical symbol for chromium is Cr; for vanadium V. In the pack of sessions for PO&N (link given above):

"Ogden 05 CrV

Chuck and Joe, Dispatcher here. The early morning run taking chrome-vanadium feedstock to the Steel Mill.
Attach the gondolas over in the bulk terminal yard. And take those two depressed centre well cars at the wharf with you too. Leave the containers packed with heavy mining equipment at the Xacto 2 unloading spur, Industry 33 b.
Load one gondola with raw CrV ore at each of Xacto 1, 2 and 3, Industry 32 a, 33 c, 34 b.
Unload the ore at the calcifying plant at Xacto, 31 b. Reload with calcified ore, Ind 31 a.
Proceed through SevenSeven and Tinkers to the Steel Mill at VanDenH. Unload the ore at Ind 14 o.
Leave the empty gondolas in the Steel Mill receiving yard.
Refuel over at the loco depot and contact me your next turn.
You are authorised to travel at up to 50mph except in yard areas where normal limits apply.
You must give way to all other trains.
Dispatcher out.

IMPORTANT
Make sure only the car to be loaded is between the yellow markers."

Phil

mattm
April 29th, 2010, 07:26 AM
Excellent, thanks Phil. Much appreciated. One more piece of the supply chain puzzle is in place. On to the next!

That's what i love about your routes. The industries all link in with each other. And that's why i am modifying them. I can't micro-manage that many trainz with at least one AI driver to help:hehe:.

Cheers,

Matt.

karlmalm
July 2nd, 2010, 08:30 AM
When it comes to making AI trains work, the single most important change in recent trainz versions is the Navigate command.

The default Drive To command is "impatient" - AI drivers will attempt to take another route if held up at a signal for more than a few minutes. This is extremely bad.

Previously, you had to contain this with various AI markers, invisible signals and what not. And it very probably still didn't work out.

Now, you can (and should) scrap all that. Instead, use Navigate commands. When a AI Driver is held up at a red light, he will simply continue waiting until the signal becomes green again.

Assuming your layouts doesn't deadlock trains (for example, by making the mistake of adding signals to a bidirectional piece of your route), this means things will finally work!

I love the PO&N (2a) but for anything but the most basic AI operations (such as what the sessions for the built in version of the route limited themselves to), you need to completely scrap the built in signals, invisible signals, direction markers and what not.

Because AI trains can't cope with signalled bidirectional track (not unless you try something fancy), I abandoned the idea with two different track owners. That is, instead of having two tracks both bidirectional, I changed things so one track is for clockwise traffic and the other for anticlockwise traffic.

(The numerous choke points and stretches of single line keeps things very interesting, so it's not like I feel I miss out. YMMV - myself I'm much more interested in "living breathing routes" with working AI than keeping things prototypical)

Now I can make the portals output several trains that run in both directions (currently the SevenSeven to vanDenH part) and it still works hours later (both if I leave it alone, or if enjoy running a manual train intermixed with the AI drivers, being careful to yield way of course*)

Again thanks, and hope this helps any confusion.


*) The AI still can't see your train on the route and will happily change a junction from under your train causing you to derail. However, because the AI doesn't look beyond its next trackmark, you set a trackmark before each such chokepoint. And as long as you can clear a chokepoint before the AI train you're about to meet runs up to it, you're fine.