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RoysTrainz
October 23rd, 2009, 11:59 PM
:cool:out of curiosity just to see who else besides me preordered??????
Interesting to see how many reply positive on this one
Spiffy I sincerely hope this one is not one of the many full of 'xxx' unwanted surprises and for once a real nice to say WOW.
I sincerely want to say one time without hesitation GREAT work guys.
See you on November 16 lining up for DL.

Roy;)

baz66
October 24th, 2009, 03:18 AM
Roy.I,ve put it on hold for the moment. Just got murchison so that will keep me occupied(for years) I haven,t recieved the email about the free treez yet so it will be interesting to see that. Your,e right about the great work. They are improving it all the time. Notice the prices going up accordingly?
baz

RoysTrainz
October 24th, 2009, 03:58 AM
Roy.I,ve put it on hold for the moment. Just got murchison so that will keep me occupied(for years) I haven,t recieved the email about the free treez yet so it will be interesting to see that. Your,e right about the great work. They are improving it all the time. Notice the prices going up accordingly?
baz

Baz i guess the price should be OK IF they deliver what promised and not get us the typical marketing stuff. I worry little bit about what exactly they will provide based on speedtree. Worse case is just a few trees y'll never use in most regions and thus creating a new mousetrap for additional sales of add on treez libs. BUT I am sure they shoot themselves in the foot this time if they cheat again on us like to many times in the past. Thanks for your reply and have a good one Roy

Yorkshire
October 24th, 2009, 03:59 AM
Hi Roy

Yes I have succumbed and ordered. Have had an up & down year with 2009. have just received S&C for 2009 and it will fit into 2010. Just hope (against experience!) that this is the one that won't require umpteen patches!

Yorkshire

RoysTrainz
October 24th, 2009, 04:07 AM
Yorkshire, the worst with 2009 happened to me was the draw distance lock which ruins my entire project Vancouver Calgary. When traveling 1800 some km over the rockies YOU NEED view and draw distance. I hope to find a needle in the haystack to circumvent this problem do'nt know how yet in 2010.speedtree miracle maybe to keep MB's down per board so the draw distance lock not kicks in. I wish this was an option and let people decide to crash or not. Roy

barn700
October 24th, 2009, 04:20 AM
preordered, and preordered EE too.

It is important to pre-order, as 100% of funds go direct to Auran, rather than say 50% when others sell the product as part of the sales,

RoysTrainz
October 24th, 2009, 04:32 AM
preordered, and preordered EE too.

It is important to pre-order, as 100% of funds go direct to Auran, rather than say 50% when others sell the product as part of the sales,

yes no doubt Roy

bazcouta
October 24th, 2009, 04:42 AM
I've pre-ordered and looking forward to it. Should pass the time over Christmas.

sylbob91
October 24th, 2009, 04:57 AM
When are Auran going to correct the poor attempt at points/switches construction. I have used all of the Trainz programs since the beginning, I have really enjoyed the ease in which routes etc can be constructed. (unlike with MSTS) however unlike MSTS, the Auran attempts at point/switch construction is poor. Any chance of an improvement fellas. ?:'(

sylbob91
October 24th, 2009, 05:05 AM
Hi there, is anyone out there as frustrated as me with the poor none functioning points/switches in Trainz. I have used both Trainz and MSTS since there inception. Whereas MSTS now has superb operating pointwork via "X tracks". Trainz is still stuck in the dark ages of none operation. Is there any chance of a correction to this problem please.?
Bob Lloyd. UK

baz66
October 24th, 2009, 05:09 AM
sylbob91. The assets in murchison use some new point addons which are very good. The frogs look realistic and the points are excellent. I,ve not had a chance to look at them yet because i,m to busy playing with it. I think the price was well worth it. I did lose all my filters in surveyor but thats no big problem really.
baz

Approach_Medium
October 24th, 2009, 06:10 AM
I pre-ordered TS2010 download. I had a voucher for 20% off, and it would only be good if I pre-ordered. Knowing that I would be wanting to upgrade anyway, I went for the 20% discount.
The total cost in US$ was only $31. Trainz has always been my favorite game, and I am always looking for new software / hardware to try.
I am sure that TS2010 will prove to be a significant improvement over TS2009.
I just installed Windows 7 Ultimate, and have confirmed that TS2009 runs, so I have no worries about TS2010.

I also ordered the Treez pack. I have already DL that, but not yet installed.
I saw the previews, and just had to have them!

FW

Vern
October 24th, 2009, 07:15 AM
At over £40 for TS2010 and the S&C pack (which IMHO should be bundled), I think I'm sitting this one out. Without starting old arguments or a flame war I've come to the conclusion it really is a Trainz too far. They never finished patching TS2009 (which must be the shortest lived ever full version of the game) properly - blue terrain on save etc. Yes there are a few new bits but mostly it's just the same old content recycled. I'll stick with TRS2006, maybe TC3 and at some point TS2009 though it's unlikely that will get anymore patches.

As already mentioned, the only thing that might persuade me is if Auran bundle the S&C plus the TC3 DLC plus the other two commercial routes as part of the deal.

Re the points, that really sums up the underlying issue with the product. After - what - nine years in development, in return for our money I expect to see substantial changes to the core and starting with how the track renders is probably the most basic of all. Well that and the limitation on default style tunnel placement plus maybe a stab at a proper despatcher so you can run trains without having to switch points manually all the time. That's the one thing that has deterred my recent route building efforts, the fact that if you build a complex yard or station, multi track main line navigating through it is little different to Trainz CE, all those years ago.

So for < £20, maybe but not for >£40. Voting with my wallet this time round.

john259
October 24th, 2009, 07:38 AM
What is TS2010WBE? I thought the only version of TS2010 is going to be TS2010EE and that will include Surveyor. Did I miss an announcement?

John

WestSideRailways
October 24th, 2009, 07:44 AM
Here is one happy Passenger for Trainz2010:D

Have preordered the Box version, it will go nicely with all the others in my collection.:hehe::cool:

Great Work Auran, was going to say more,but, it will only get twisted by those people.

Talking about Prices, Windows 7 HAS been put on the very back burner.....as Microsoft has burnt us aussies again with the outlandish prices for their software.:'(:'(:'(

john_goddard
October 24th, 2009, 08:00 AM
What is TS2010WBE? I thought the only version of TS2010 is going to be TS2010EE and that will include Surveyor. Did I miss an announcement?

John
I think it is obvious that joosten made a mistake, wrote WBE instead of EE! John.

meatloaf747
October 24th, 2009, 08:43 AM
Yorkshire, the worst with 2009 happened to me was the draw distance lock which ruins my entire project Vancouver Calgary. When traveling 1800 some km over the rockies YOU NEED view and draw distance. I hope to find a needle in the haystack to circumvent this problem do'nt know how yet in 2010.speedtree miracle maybe to keep MB's down per board so the draw distance lock not kicks in. I wish this was an option and let people decide to crash or not. Roy

รอยผมไม่แน่ใจว่าคุณสามารถอ่านหรือเขียนไทยยัง. คุณอาจต้องได้ภรรยาไทยที่น่ารักของคุณจะแปล. หวัง TS2010 อาจมีคำตอบของคุณ. ฉันหวังว่าดังนั้น!!! ดีเห็น Vancouver - รูปแบบ Calgery ยังคงก้าวหน้า. ฉันตั้งใจรอคอยจริงๆวันนั้นเสร็จสิ้นแล้วและอัปโหลดไ ปยัง DLS. - (การเขียนของฉันของภาษาไทยจะเป็นสนิมสวย).
ไชโย, Mac...

OldSalt
October 24th, 2009, 09:19 AM
out of curiosity just to see who else besides me preordered??????
Interesting to see how many reply positive on this one
Spiffy I sincerely hope this one is not one of the many full of 'xxx' unwanted surprises and for once a real nice to say WOW.
I sincerely want to say one time without hesitation GREAT work guys.
See you on November 16 lining up for DL.

Roy;)

I for one, put my money toward Railworks. I been with Trianz from the begining. But I am not happy with how it's going. About every 2 new versions and pass objects are not compatible. I have spent enough money here. The one thing I will give Trainz is building layouts is very easy to Railworks. But then again what you make in Railwords will turn out great since it seems to be more of a CAD program. You can't lay track that's to sharp, want a fence to run along side a track, well it will perfectly turning as the track does, since the fence is done off the track, make it as close or far from the track you want. So it looks like not only will I not be getting Trainz 2010 and brake by streak, but will be removing Trianz 2009 from my HD.

Yorkshire
October 24th, 2009, 09:50 AM
Regarding the track & junction issue, I have always used the animated junctions by Andi06. He did produce a new demo set for 2009 but I think gave up when they kept changing the goal posts with every patch. The problem with the newer version was that although you didn't need manually to add invisible tracks to wire the junction, they wouldn't work with set path commands. Andi06 has been quiet for a while - maybe following Treez we might get Junctionz as an addon!! Or maybe they will be included in 2010. I do agree though that after 9 years of development it is a real shame that this issue has been permanently on the back burner!

Yorkshire

mcguirel
October 24th, 2009, 10:12 AM
I contatced Spiffy regarding the Retail Version and if it is going to be in retail stores, but no reply so I am hesitating at the moment.

Really would prefer the retail box version, but that is $50 with shipping near Christmas which is a tight money time.

Considerring preorder, and wonder if that is an introductory price.

john259
October 24th, 2009, 10:19 AM
Andi06 has been quiet for a while
He's still very active on TrainzDev, trying to keep Chris in line (or vice-versa) :) - John

Vern
October 24th, 2009, 10:23 AM
Back to RailRubbish then Vern ? :hehe:

Mike.

You must be joking!

I thought about it but after struggling for an hour this afternoon to match a lofted viaduct to a curved track section I gave up in disgust.

No as I said, sticking with 2006 for the moment, maybe TC3, a huge list of potential projects to look at just need to regain a bit of focus.

I'm sure at some point 2010 will drop through the letterbox, just not yet...

clam1952
October 24th, 2009, 10:29 AM
So much negativity............
Just wondering how many of the Auran bashers, no offence intended, even begin to comprehend how difficult it is to put a simulator of this high standard together? and despite what some think IMO warts and all, it is of a high standard.
Considering that Auran do not have an army of game programmers as do Microbodge (until recently) and many of the large game suppliers, I think they do incredibly well especially as Trainz is not exactly expensive compared to other games or simulators. OK so it's not perfect, neither are many other titles costing far more.

As for bugs and glitches, take a look at any gaming forum and you will find they all have problems, it's not unique to Auran.

I look on Trainz as a more of a development platform that you can produce your own finished projects, be it routes, assets, scripts or whatever, you get out of it what you put into it, bugs can be worked round as can faulty assets, draw distance etc.
Many are not having major problems with 2009, obviously some are, that problem is common with probably 90% of software ever written, just look at how many patches and fixes Microsoft produce, the massive diversity in hardware these days probably doesn't help much either.

As someone who has tried creating a game from scratch and after 5 years am still nowhere near finished, in fact due to finding Trainz, which more than satisfies my creative urge, It probably never will be, I can appreciate the efforts that have been by Auran to improve the product, may not suit all obviously but what ever does?
;)

ps. If you want real bugs try running Mandriva Cooker, Alpha testing Linux Distro for those not in the know. :hehe:

martinvk
October 24th, 2009, 11:07 AM
So much negativity............ ...
Right on :cool:

Me, of course I preordered. Just the new Surveyor features alone will be more than worth the price.

martinvk
October 24th, 2009, 11:17 AM
I for one, put my money toward Railworks. ...
as if they're so great ... but that's your choice

... want a fence to run along side a track, well it will perfectly turning as the track does, since the fence is done off the track, make it as close or far from the track you want. ...
Seems to be the lazy way to have track side fences. :wave: Do those fences also follow the ups and downs of the terrain? The track should be perfectly smooth but there is no reason for the ground to be. And how realistic is it for the fence to follow the track to the millimeter? Look at real track side fences and you'll see they often deviate horizontally for obstacles or other reasons. :eek:

JCitron
October 24th, 2009, 11:20 AM
Right on :cool:

Me, of course I preordered. Just the new Surveyor features alone will be more than worth the price.

I agree Martin, and I preordered too.

I've used worse software that has never brought as much joy to me as this one has.

John

DonZer63
October 24th, 2009, 11:32 AM
Moin,

I´m also preordered the new version. Just happy with TS 09, why not with the next version?

MountE
October 24th, 2009, 12:31 PM
I preorder the box. I'm really excited about the layers and the idea that routes may use different layers to change the seasons like MST.

Rob

OldSalt
October 24th, 2009, 01:34 PM
as if they're so great ... but that's your choice
Seems to be the lazy way to have track side fences. :wave: Do those fences also follow the ups and downs of the terrain? The track should be perfectly smooth but there is no reason for the ground to be. And how realistic is it for the fence to follow the track to the millimeter? Look at real track side fences and you'll see they often deviate horizontally for obstacles or other reasons. :eek:

What I have seen, they beat out Trainz 2009. The grafix is better then Trainz, the way one can do a layout, makes for a much better one then I can do with Trainz. Now, I still got more to learn about it, and my view might change. But like I said, I been with Trainz from the first one and got everyone up to 2009 version. I am tired of trying to find a building that would go great on the layout only to find it is not compatable since it's to old, and was never updated by the person who did it. Or, it no longer shows up. Or rolling stock which for what ever reason is invisable, and once put down you can't remove it. So the AI will no longer use that secton of track.

I would love to see Trainz get it's act together and come out with something, then just rehashing it every 2 years. 2006 was the last soild version IMHO.

itareus
October 24th, 2009, 01:59 PM
I'll stick with TRS2006, maybe TC3 and at some point TS2009 though it's unlikely that will get anymore patches.

Just some information re further 2009 patches: SP3 is in the final stages of testing and SP4 (which is to be the final patch for 2009) is in first Beta stage.

Chris

VinnyBarb
October 24th, 2009, 02:00 PM
Snip.....I would love to see Trainz get it's act together and come out with something, then just rehashing it every 2 years. 2006 was the last soild version IMHO.

I beg to differ, it was TRS2004 that was the last solid version! Also IMHO :p

Of course I preordered TS 2010, just to use up my 20% voucher :hehe:. No, not really, I would have preordered TS2010 in any case as I did with all other versions before (UTC excepted). And some of these versions I bought several times too.

Just to see what AURAN did not fix this time with TS 2010 :p.

Cheers

VinnyBarb

Stagefright
October 24th, 2009, 02:34 PM
I try to support those companies which provide a good product at a decent price. In my mind, Trainz is (and has been) a dream come true. I love trains, but live in a small apartment with no room for model trains. I've spent many, many happy (my wife says way too many) hours playing and enjoying trainz. Trainz is, by far, the best value per hour than any other hobby or pasttime I can think of.

Darrel

Approach_Medium
October 24th, 2009, 02:57 PM
Here is one happy Passenger for Trainz2010:D

Have preordered the Box version, it will go nicely with all the others in my collection.:hehe::cool:

Great Work Auran, was going to say more,but, it will only get twisted by those people.

Talking about Prices, Windows 7 HAS been put on the very back burner.....as Microsoft has burnt us aussies again with the outlandish prices for their software.:'(:'(:'(
Not to make you or anyone cry, but I got my Windows 7 Ultimate absolutely free (unless you want to include bus fare).
All I had to do is sign up (way back in August) for the Windows 7 launch event / seminars, which was free.
It was in NYC, and I live only 20 minutes by bus, so it was a great deal.

As for TS2010, I think $30 USD is a great price.

FW

rgterry49
October 24th, 2009, 03:52 PM
Not to make you or anyone cry, but I got my Windows 7 Ultimate absolutely free (unless you want to include bus fare).
All I had to do is sign up (way back in August) for the Windows 7 launch event / seminars, which was free.
It was in NYC, and I live only 20 minutes by bus, so it was a great deal.

As for TS2010, I think $30 USD is a great price.

FW


I preordered win7 the day the pre-order became availible, and---------because of the high volume of orders I have to wait till the 28th of Oct to get my disk. Man.....what good was pre-ordering then.

I'll wait for 2010 to actually come out. Nothing against Auran. Just tight for money and bandwidth. (Only allowed 7.5 Gig download per month).

Rick

atilabarut
October 24th, 2009, 03:58 PM
Right on :cool:

Me, of course I preordered. Just the new Surveyor features alone will be more than worth the price.

Agreed. I preordered too.

falcon500
October 24th, 2009, 04:15 PM
Probably will preorder as good value at $50 AU. Maybe twice that later. Is Speedtree included for people to use to make their own trees? Bit vague on website.

itareus
October 24th, 2009, 04:27 PM
Is Speedtree included for people to use to make their own trees? Bit vague on website.

No - and it's very expensive to buy!

http://www.speedtree.com/

Gary_Evans
October 24th, 2009, 05:57 PM
I preordered because I love my hobby and want to support Auran. If my experience is any indication, Auran is getting a lot of preorders. It took me about eight hours to finally get a completed transaction. Looking forward to a new and hopefully great program.
Gary

RoysTrainz
October 24th, 2009, 06:36 PM
FW,

did you install a free 7 Ultimate dl copy or bought one 119 usd?? if so what website shop online you use?

Roy

RoysTrainz
October 24th, 2009, 06:40 PM
yahyah, whatever type error got so used to wbe........

goanna
October 24th, 2009, 06:47 PM
Just preordered ts2010 boxed set will be a birthday present from my daughter.

RoysTrainz
October 24th, 2009, 06:54 PM
รอยผมไม่แน่ใจว่าคุณสามารถอ่านหรือเขียนไทยยัง. คุณอาจต้องได้ภรรยาไทยที่น่ารักของคุณจะแปล. หวัง TS2010 อาจมีคำตอบของคุณ. ฉันหวังว่าดังนั้น!!! ดีเห็น Vancouver - รูปแบบ Calgery ยังคงก้าวหน้า. ฉันตั้งใจรอคอยจริงๆวันนั้นเสร็จสิ้นแล้วและอัปโหลดไ ปยัง DLS. - (การเขียนของฉันของภาษาไทยจะเป็นสนิมสวย).
ไชโย, Mac...

Roy, I'm not sure that you can also read or write Thai. You may need to have a lovely Thai wife, your translation. TS2010 hope you may have your answer.
I hope so!!! Good to see Vancouver - Calgary model remains viable. I am really looking forward the day finished and uploaded to the DLS. - (Writing of my Thai is pretty rusty

Thanks Mac,

i prefer english,
speaking and writing 7 languages is more than enough at my age. i understand Thai little bit enough not to learn speak and write it for sure. Instead I 'teached" (she did learn herself by listening very well)her the last 5 years english makes more sense than me learning thai. She now speaks very good english so that is a win win.
Vancouver Calgary is getting very beautiful and you will be the first one to get one from me (my wife said at a very special discounted price haha).Probably next year somewhere hope at the time of the winter games.

Roy

RoysTrainz
October 24th, 2009, 07:03 PM
John cannot agree more and for once this thread has much less negative gossip than most threads.
Yes we have the muppet show characters like statler and waldorf here to but old grumpies you need them for folklore purposes only.

Roy

RoysTrainz
October 24th, 2009, 07:10 PM
Rob you're absolutely right.
Overlay system is the most basic necessity of any modeller system 2D or 3D.
This is one of the main reason i orderded (and draw distance, and seasons, and......,and...,sight)
Roy

RoysTrainz
October 24th, 2009, 07:11 PM
Rob you're absolutely right.
Overlay system is the most basic necessity of any modeler system 2D or 3D.
This is one of the main reasons i ordered (and draw distance, and seasons, and......,and...,sight)
Roy

Johnk
October 25th, 2009, 12:41 AM
I'll probably preorder just to support Auran. I only used 2009 for about ten minutes until I saw the power lines cutting trough the trees and everything glimmering like the sun shining on a lake. No doubt the SP fixed that, but I've never bothered to find out. I just put it aside until the EE edition was released. Combined, they will probably go over a hundred bucks (AU) - not cheap me thinks.

What I would like to see, is a comparison chart like Microsoft uses for Windows, stating exactly what each version does compared to 2010 or visa versa. A compatibility chart would also be more than helpful. I'm not quite up with it, but from what I read on these forums, compatibility between versions is the biggest concern and I guess, the biggest setback for Trainz itself. It certainly doesn't win friends.

OldSalt
October 25th, 2009, 04:46 AM
I beg to differ, it was TRS2004 that was the last solid version! Also IMHO :p

Of course I preordered TS 2010, just to use up my 20% voucher :hehe:. No, not really, I would have preordered TS2010 in any case as I did with all other versions before (UTC excepted). And some of these versions I bought several times too.

Just to see what AURAN did not fix this time with TS 2010 :p.

VinnyBarb

Well, I will probably also pre-order it. After spending some time with layout making in Railworks, I find it is really a major up hill learning experience. But I still got to say it's graphics are fantastic, the people walking to the train at stations knock my socks off.

But my main interest is layout/scenario building, and so far Trainz still is far easier to use for this then Railworks.

selector
October 25th, 2009, 09:08 AM
Having just bought 2009 a couple of weeks ago with S&C addon plus treez pack prior to the announcement of 2010 I wonder if I will preorder just yet. Really impressed with 2009 as I have a laptop I and the added performance is a boon to me. Unfortunatly as with upgrading found some items do not function in native mode ie the great ATLS system, the uk gates cannot alter the angle although the barriers works fine. Anyway I think I will hang on a bit, no complaints about Auran keep up the good work.

mcguirel
October 25th, 2009, 12:10 PM
I stated finally I was going from TRS2006 and buying TS2010:EE.

I have ben informed TS2010:EE will be in retail stores early next year, so questioning jumping on the bandwagon prematurely.

I am being realistic in one aspect of TS2010:EE. If TS2009:WBE has two service packs still in different phases of testing, TS2009:WBE is incorporated into TS2010:EE, then we are still looking at a possible TS2010:EE purchase fiasco like many complaints about TS2009:WBE.

One other note, I'd really like to see some of the new content available in TS2010:EE on the website. I am concerned Auran may do a content pay situation for future content like the Treez Package.

chuffbuff
October 25th, 2009, 12:48 PM
Hmmmm, think I'll avoid this one .... give it 6 months after EE's initial release and edition X will be announced. :confused:

john259
October 25th, 2009, 12:54 PM
Simple rule - avoid any Auran product until its SP4 is released.

FlyingScottmond
October 25th, 2009, 04:15 PM
Is it possible to order EE yet?

chefbyte
October 25th, 2009, 04:29 PM
Is it possible to order EE yet?

Yup, get over to http://www.auran.com/auran/store/index.php?p=3&PID=198

RoysTrainz
October 25th, 2009, 06:48 PM
I stated finally I was going from TRS2006 and buying TS2010:EE.

I have ben informed TS2010:EE will be in retail stores early next year, so questioning jumping on the bandwagon prematurely.

I am being realistic in one aspect of TS2010:EE. If TS2009:WBE has two service packs still in different phases of testing, TS2009:WBE is incorporated into TS2010:EE, then we are still looking at a possible TS2010:EE purchase fiasco like many complaints about TS2009:WBE.

One other note, I'd really like to see some of the new content available in TS2010:EE on the website. I am concerned Auran may do a content pay situation for future content like the Treez Package.

Mcquirel, I don't know much about you like age, way of making money for a living but I guess if the age si the thing think about it. There is a simple rule in life and God or Buddah not bring the food on your table for free! You have to earn it. Only in the US marketing says For Free and the internet it full of it but be aware of the deadly catch.

AS long as Auran delivers products with sufficient content, quality and quantity I do not mind as to pay for. I know than they have a lifeline to continue good services. I would recommend them to make this a circuit for continued add on's on libs for vegetation trees etc AS LONG AS the basic lib contains suffcient startup stuff for all of us(especially Canadian mountain forest stuff).
I personally hate the phony for free scam so many people pretent to be entitled to. If so go for it you'll never be satisfied in your life whatever you do whatever you try.
Feel much better now got it of my chest. lol

have a nice day and that's for free. haha:p:hehe:

Scitimar
October 25th, 2009, 07:22 PM
the people walking to the train at stations knock my socks off.


nothin' that can't be done here ,, for those with the software and the skill , trainz uses a slightly better method .. imho

.

mcguirel
October 25th, 2009, 07:31 PM
Mcquirel, I don't know much about you like age, way of making money for a living but I guess if the age si the thing think about it. There is a simple rule in life and God or Buddah not bring the food on your table for free! You have to earn it. Only in the US marketing says For Free and the internet it full of it but be aware of the deadly catch.

AS long as Auran delivers products with sufficient content, quality and quantity I do not mind as to pay for. I know than they have a lifeline to continue good services. I would recommend them to make this a circuit for continued add on's on libs for vegetation trees etc AS LONG AS the basic lib contains suffcient startup stuff for all of us(especially Canadian mountain forest stuff).
I personally hate the phony for free scam so many people pretent to be entitled to. If so go for it you'll never be satisfied in your life whatever you do whatever you try.
Feel much better now got it of my chest. lol

have a nice day and that's for free. haha:p:hehe:

Unwarranted comment and find it to be rather insulting at the end. My comment was well written, had nothing to do with Free Stuff on the web. I stated a concern. I did not ask for your explanation of what you find to be of "value".

By the way, I am probably much older than you and I conduct myself with poise and restraint (believe me, I wanted to go further with wording, but being part of this forum is more important).

j_maybury
October 25th, 2009, 09:23 PM
Hi Roy

Yes I have succumbed and ordered. Have had an up & down year with 2009. have just received S&C for 2009 and it will fit into 2010. Just hope (against experience!) that this is the one that won't require umpteen patches!

Yorkshire
I too, like Yorkshire, have gone for S&C & TS2010,EE, but I don't mind how ever many patches it take's, so long as they add to the game and doesn’t stop content from working just because the author forgot to dot an (i), or cross a (t), or some other petty thing.:n:

Talking about Free stuff, where's my free copy of TREEZ?....... I havent had an email for it yet!

Scitimar
October 25th, 2009, 10:27 PM
:n:
and doesn’t stop content from working just because the author forgot to dot an (i), or cross a (t), or some other petty thing.



Hardly the thing to vote for is it ??? Is'nt that the reason for most complaints i.e. people not following guidlines and screwing any effort Auran make for compatibility ?? . Try doing this in other games and you'll soon find that your items will never work . If using a spell checker and checking syntax is beyond the individuals skill what is the point of building in the first place .... seriously wrong attidtude imo.

:n: :n:

RoysTrainz
October 25th, 2009, 11:08 PM
Unwarranted comment and find it to be rather insulting at the end. My comment was well written, had nothing to do with Free Stuff on the web. I stated a concern. I did not ask for your explanation of what you find to be of "value".

By the way, I am probably much older than you and I conduct myself with poise and restraint (believe me, I wanted to go further with wording, but being part of this forum is more important).

Dear Mcquirel.First it is not and never the intention of insulting you or others. If you older than me (if that's important) you know more than me and if so what's the difference.
Yesterday I stated in this thread I was really happy to see no typical after the great forum crash forum critics or desires. He wake up.

You feel you like for feree things and I just say my opinion IN GENERAL everywhere people love to be folled with for free stuff.
I I step unintentional on your toe we have an old saying like you must have a large shoe size nothing wrong with that right?

Come one get your smile back and don't be so fast offended by absolutely nothing.

It seems like the beginning of the year I proposed a kind of maintenance fee just to lift the quality of service and predictable service and a healthy provider. Man did certain zombies wake up and try to throw trash at me almost like an italian soap opera. It shows how many users with different attitude,education and manners have their say. Yes this is the forum from after the crash. Don't take it to serious.

Te end with please keep this thread dedicated to the purpose of the thread which is 2010 EE did you order too, I hope so.
Supporting Auran is helping us too.

Mcquirel have one on me.

best regards,

Roy:wave:;)

OldSalt
October 26th, 2009, 04:31 AM
nothing' that can't be done here ,, for those with the software and the skill , trainz uses a slightly better method .. IMHO

.

While I agree it's just eye candy, that and the birds flying in the sky was great looking. I am more into creating a layout that runs well. Trainz has that hands down as far as the creating part. Since Railworks is really a pain to work with, great for running trains, but so far IMHO, a real up hill learning experience in the creating layout department.

As far as 3rd party goes, well why bother, I see 2010 will only use 2009 stuff. So everything from 2006 and before is useless. I remember when we lost a lot of 3rd party people due to the fact they didn't want to go back and redo all there stuff. So once again we will have a limited number of objects with the new version of Trainz. BTW, I did pre-ordered it.

RoysTrainz
October 26th, 2009, 05:10 AM
Oldsalt, while I fully agree on railworks its more than a pain and as such forgot that one. Last year I tested it and created a very complicated Yard near Calgary to say with railworks after testing the portal I throw the towel and never touched it again.
Trainz has tremendous potential but we sometimes go faster than our shadows. We expect everything just to be fine and upwards compatibel regardless what techniques require what basic elements to play with.
The technique as such changes so much that we cannot just expect things to go along all the way and have to cut how painful somewhere, draw a line and move on and grow. Yes its painful and frustrating redoing objects and procedures for a higher purpose 2010 and beyond.
It is already amazing how long this jet engine holds on like a Tford next to a mustang chevy and now the time has come somewhere not to far down the line they have to change that engine........but that is another topic i not want to geto right now.
I am heavily testing my routes with trees from TNM and draw distance 12-25km, free roaming and still not crash and having decent frps(15-25) with a 4loc consist100c64(ocemy) loaded thru the rockies. 2009 is not that bad IMHO.
I am waiting for 2010 with speedtree as it should have an overwelming impact(positive) i hope on the size of a big route like mine. In the worst case i fall back to TNM's concept of tree for very large forests. As soon as Jankvis get his forest trees up and running with good LOD technique I plant them back where they belong.

Roy:)

itareus
October 26th, 2009, 05:27 AM
.....I see 2010 will only use 2009 stuff. So everything from 2006 and before is useless......

Just to clarify.....

2010 will use 2009 (SP4) standards to give compatibility between the versions.

That means that earlier (2006 and before) content will still work but some of it (say 10 percent) will be faulty in 2009/10 so cannot be used in Native mode unless it is repaired either by the author or the end user.

Chris

Scitimar
October 26th, 2009, 05:28 AM
and the birds flying in the sky was great looking.

Blackbirds also doable here :) though personally I find them disturbing :eek: ... trainz badly needs shaders and decent lighting , would have the best of all worlds then . :cool:

The comment about skinned meshes was more to emphasize the point that it can be done ... trainz is not just limited to the stick figure like anims already produced

.

jhdale65
October 26th, 2009, 06:29 AM
Well I said I would not spend any more pension on Auran But I was really sucked in again Ive paid the money and just hope that the hype is true this time and its not just a white wash. Hell what the heck! its only money. Roll on 2010 EE.

Regards Jim

Johnk
October 26th, 2009, 06:43 AM
This is NOT a plug for Railworks!

I just visited Railworks for the first time today after reading a few comments in this thread. It looks like a really lovely simulator, but as people here have already said, it comes across as being very difficult to modify. One thing that did impress me was the drawing distance and how steady everything was. On my copy of 2009, the rails disappear into empty space about 5km away, trees pop up out of nowhere and cars appear before your eyes. And I have all my settings pretty high. Maybe my $200 vide card is letting me down, but I don't think so.

There's an interesting review on Amazon. The reviewer mentions that Trains et-al are running on technology invented 8 years ago. That struck a nerve,because still having the first version of Trainz where everything vanished in the haze instead of over the edge (which I absolutely love because that's what happens in real life) many parts of Trainz haven't seemed to change that much. In fact, if you showed the earliest and latest versions of Driver to someone not involved with the evolution of this product, I don't think they would notice any difference.

What I liked about Railworks was that soft environment that many of our best screenshot creators seem to be able to achieve. Call it soft focus or manipulated if you like, but in the real world, comic book sharpness doesn't exist.

My biggest concern with Trainz is that comic book sharp definition plus the fact that everything seems to float. Cars float, trains float and ships almost fly. I didn't notice that with Railworks, but what I did notice was the almost lack of shared content and almost no locomotives, rolling stock or assets in the retail package itself. One mob sells a few addons that quadruple the price of the original product and as mentioned earlier, it seems as though it's almost impossible to make anything yourself.

Having been with Trainz from day one, I support the product because I want it to succeed. Unfortunately it still doesn't ring my chimes but I guess I'll be adding 2010 to my lengthy row of Trainz CD cases for that reason alone.

Scitimar
October 26th, 2009, 06:54 AM
it seems as though it's almost impossible to make anything yourself.



It's a fact of life .. the greater the ability of the engine to simulate a more natural envirenment , the more complex the tools and skills required to add the game. ..

O/T .. the other product does have it's fair share of problems and you'll need to use it to find out how bad some things really are.

:)

john259
October 26th, 2009, 06:54 AM
On my copy of 2009, the rails disappear into empty space about 5km away, trees pop up out of nowhere and cars appear before your eyes.
In TRS2004 and TRS2006 you can turn up the good weather fog slider to mask that effect. I guess it's the same in TS2009. But of course it's only curing the symptoms not the disease.

John

colhad
October 26th, 2009, 07:02 AM
I may purchase it online I think when it comes out. Is there any documentation of the content that will be included or is it pretty much going to be as bare as 2009 was in that regard??.

AndrewofWare
October 26th, 2009, 08:03 AM
I hope this is not a silly question. Do I need to buy Trainz 2009 if I want to use Trainz 2010? The website says everything (surveyor and railyard) is included, but I am wondering why it is called the Engineers Edition.

ldowns
October 26th, 2009, 08:58 AM
I preordered, based on the fact that lately Auran has recently been putting real effort into multiple issuing service packs (unlike the case with TRS2006 whose single service pack wasn't much more than a good start). I don't expect to actually install it until one or more of said service packs are out, especially with all of the new technology (speedtree, seasons, etc.) being added, but it seems like it's worth the gamble. (And Auran can use the money).

--Lamont

j_maybury
October 26th, 2009, 06:23 PM
:n:

Hardly the thing to vote for is it ??? Is'nt that the reason for most complaints i.e. people not following guidlines and screwing any effort Auran make for compatibility ?? . Try doing this in other games and you'll soon find that your items will never work . If using a spell checker and checking syntax is beyond the individuals skill what is the point of building in the first place .... seriously wrong attidtude imo.

:n: :n:
OK for starters, I am not talking about sloppy coding or spelling for that matter, I am talking about Auran's constant shifting of the goalposts as to, what you can and cannot do. With every new build, more and more content becomes broken, and yet it worked fine before!
And as for "people not following guidelines" How can they if Auran keep screwing around with them? (Your words, not mine.)
By all means, lets have a dividing line between the old and the new, but lets not chuck the old stuff out altogether, we don't want to chuck the baby out with the bath water......now, do we?;)

Ps, look like you could use a spellchecker your self there Bud. :hehe:

martinvk
October 26th, 2009, 08:31 PM
On the other hand, without moving the goal posts,we'd be stuck with the same old and nothing new every new version. New features sometimes mean some old techniques will not work any more. :eek:

Still, it's pretty amazing that most old objects, some going back to pre UTC can still be used at all. :cool:

baz66
October 26th, 2009, 09:03 PM
Yes martinvk You are right. Most things do work. If they change the engine, How many of those goodies will we lose?
baz

RoysTrainz
October 26th, 2009, 09:28 PM
I agree with you martin most very old stuff still works.
A pity though the stuff from Cyberstorm excellent for my routes the cable cars it gives me trouble in 2009 changing from native to compat mode from time to time then the buildings for the cable car completely dissappear only leaving the cable track. It is still working but so many little annoying things keep popping up makes me feel like tired not be able to spent more time on finishing the route.
The winter games are coming soon in Feb. and i hoped to get part of the route ready but that looks not realistic any more. Maybe 2010 is the miracle version that will surprise us all.

Roy

Scitimar
October 26th, 2009, 09:31 PM
OK for starters, I am not talking about sloppy coding or spelling for that matter, I am talking about Auran's constant shifting of the goalposts as to, what you can and cannot do. With every new build, more and more content becomes broken, and yet it worked fine before!
And as for "people not following guidelines" How can they if Auran keep screwing around with them? (Your words, not mine.)
;)


We're covering old ground .... again :sleep:

.. Not that I don't see your point , I do , and part of the blame lies squarely with Auran , better error checking in the past would have solved a lot of problems now , content that did not conform to standards would not have been allowed to be uploaded to the DLS , and would have saved some pain now .

I see Martin has replied in part , and he's correct , new features and fixes will almost certainly have some affect on what works and how it works in future versions . Lets take a look at FlightSim , I saw the same tired arguments there aswell , people wanted new features and a better engine , when they got what they asked for and found that old toys were not working , they of course blamed Aces ( and I know of another company that will face similar problems in the near future ) ....... So here we are at Auran and the same thing happens :D .


Ps, look like you could use a spellchecker your self there Bud.

ROFL

Edit ... Yes , pre-ordered , looking forward to the increase in my enjoyment of Trainz :)

Sci

itareus
October 27th, 2009, 03:59 AM
..... Do I need to buy Trainz 2009 if I want to use Trainz 2010? The website says everything (surveyor and railyard) is included, but I am wondering why it is called the Engineers Edition.

No you don't need to buy 2009.

I think the "Engineers Edition" title is due to the fact that Auran promised an "EE" version of 2009, which has been overtaken by 2010. It's just "marketing blurb" so don't worry!

Cheers

Chris

WindWalkr
October 27th, 2009, 04:20 AM
"Engineers Edition" reflects the gameplay focus of this edition as compared to the "World Builders Edition" which was focused on enhanced capabilities.

TS2010 is a full product in its own right and not an addon, you don't need a previous TS2009 install.

chris

Johnk
October 27th, 2009, 04:39 AM
itareus and WindWalkr, if you're both right, and you probably are. that will mean Auran now has more versions of Trainz than Microsoft has of windows or Nokia has of mobile phones.

If you are right, that also means I purchased TRS2009 under false pretences. I purchased WBE 2009 because it was to be partnered with EE in 2010. As a pensioner and someone doesn't play Trainz very often, I would have been quite happy to stick with 2006 until TRS 2010 was released.

Surely you're wrong? I hope you are because I and several others could become very upset if we've been duped as one of you implies. Marketing or no marketing, in this country where Auran is based, they have an obligation to tell the truth.

Hey Spiffy, you seem to have all the answers. I think it's time for that comparison chart i suggested in an earlier post. Too many of us are too confused.

Edit: As you say Chris, EE was supposed to focus on game play with limited or no Surveyor features, but now it sounds like a full blown Surveyor package is included, making 2009 completely redundant.

RoysTrainz
October 27th, 2009, 05:10 AM
"Engineers Edition" reflects the gameplay focus of this edition as compared to the "World Builders Edition" which was focused on enhanced capabilities.

TS2010 is a full product in its own right and not an addon, you don't need a previous TS2009 install.

chris

Windwalkr Chris with all due respect but i sincerely hope your answer seems a little bit of course with the wording.
Speedtree,new functionality in the menu,overlay system, what else, all this is to my understanding of plain english, part of WBE functionality and not game play.
Driver etc i would call gameplay focus and the engineer just the driver of the train.
Folks calm down i think itChris windwalkr as i know what you try to say or not to say on behalve of the company.

:eek:Roy

fixitdude74
October 27th, 2009, 05:46 AM
pre-ordered 2010EE today! i am eager 2 see if its going to be as good as the vids i have seen. ;)

OldSalt
October 27th, 2009, 06:35 AM
Oldsalt, while I fully agree on railworks its more than a pain and as such forgot that one.

Wish I knew that before spending $50 for it, one day before they drop the price to $33 something.



The technique as such changes so much that we cannot just expect things to go along all the way and have to cut how painful somewhere, draw a line and move on and grow.
Roy:)

Well my bitch was the fact I am doing a layout, and needed a food distributing center for a Grand Union. I remember a cold storage building that would have fit just great, but just does not show up anymore. So then I went with another building with both an inside track and out side track which was perfect for my needs. Just that it came with a name and no way to change it. I also remember signs that someone did, that you could change what they said, and put them up against any building. These would have done the trick if I could get them, which once again don't show up in Trainz 2009 Content Manager. So it was my frustration over that, that set me off a bit. :)

OldSalt
October 27th, 2009, 06:40 AM
The comment about skinned meshes was more to emphasize the point that it can be done ... trainz is not just limited to the stick figure like anims already produced

.

And my point was Trainz should of have both in the game, not wait for some 3rd party person to do it. While I still agree it's just eye candy, it does add something to see people walk to your train to get on. Or even just walk around, as you pass by stations and towns. It gives a felling of being in a living world.

OldSalt
October 27th, 2009, 06:46 AM
I hope this is not a silly question. Do I need to buy Trainz 2009 if I want to use Trainz 2010? The website says everything (surveyor and railyard) is included, but I am wondering why it is called the Engineers Edition.

No, Trainz 2010 is a stand alone program. You do not need any of the earlier Trainz programs for it.

Johnk
October 27th, 2009, 06:56 AM
These would have done the trick if I could get them, which once again don't show up in Trainz 2009 Content Manager.


And if the truth is known OldSalt, others before you have probably downloaded the stuff, played with it for hours and eventually got it to work. Then they've kept it to themselves because they've had no idea how to pass their success on to others. Worse still, they would probably be threatened with copyright violation if they did. I read these forums daily and the number of people who have similar problems to you is astounding. I'm too frightened to download anything. After battling through the dialup download speeds Auran offers to those who refuse to pay for free stuff, Nothing ever worked. As of today I have not downloaded (successfully) a single thing from the DLS and I've been with Trainz since 2001.

Wait, I tell a lie. I think I downloaded the Monorail system for 2006 years ago and it worked. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it was in the service pack. It's so long ago I've forgotten.

I use Trainz out of the box and that's what upset me about 2009. The performance may have been better, but graphically it had all the flaws of 2006. As I said in an earlier post, a casual observer couldn't tell the difference between the original Trainz and and TRS2009. Driver is like the Volkswagen of the software industry. A new model every year or so, but the shape hardly changes.

WindWalkr
October 27th, 2009, 07:16 AM
Surely you're wrong? I hope you are because I and several others could become very upset if we've been duped as one of you implies. Marketing or no marketing, in this country where Auran is based, they have an obligation to tell the truth.

You're upset because we're offering a lot more than we originally promised? If you want to buy a content add-on, we've already released three for TS2009. Each one is an excellent product in its own right. EE itself is everything we originally suggested and a lot more.



Edit: As you say Chris, EE was supposed to focus on game play with limited or no Surveyor features, but now it sounds like a full blown Surveyor package is included, making 2009 completely redundant.

Each major version of Trainz makes the previous ones redundant, if you want to look at it that way. We're going out of our way to ensure content compatibility between TS2009 and TS2010 so it's not like you'll be cut off from anything if you choose to stay with TS2009.



Windwalkr Chris with all due respect but i sincerely hope your answer seems a little bit of course with the wording.
Speedtree,new functionality in the menu,overlay system, what else, all this is to my understanding of plain english, part of WBE functionality and not game play.
Driver etc i would call gameplay focus and the engineer just the driver of the train.

The point of all the new items is that they are gameplay focused - either directly (new content, new routes, new locos, new sessions) or indirectly - the new gameplay menu system, layer system and similar. It's all about providing immersive gameplay.

kind regards,

chris

narrowgauge
October 27th, 2009, 07:32 AM
Baureihe41

Nobody is forcing you to buy TS2010, TS2009 is not obsolete. It is strange that you are complaining about getting more than Auran promised. I guess you would not be complaining if they left Surveyor out and charged the same price, your complaint seems illogical to me.

Peter

Johnk
October 27th, 2009, 08:51 AM
WindWalkr, I see your location is Auran so I guess you either own the place or work there. With 8 posts in General Trainz in the past 2 months it's little wonder I didn't have a clue who you were. In fact, I still don't know who you are. If you don't wish to give too much away, can you at least tell us what do you do at Auran. Spiffy and Zec gave us a bit of info about themselves, but if you also wrote something, I must have missed it like all your other posts. Sorry about that.

As a representative of the company, it would be nice if you could also put something to that effect in your signature. That would make your posts stand out.

I have my own theories about Auran's current marketing strategies, but suffice to say many of us could have survived adequately without TRS2009 had we known that a completely new wiz-bang package was being released twelve months down the track. Instead of doing card tricks by telling us 2009 is "Part A" and then telling us it isn't, why don't you just offer the regulars (devotees if you like) an annual subscription like the first class ticket? We could cough up with $30 every year and you could keep churning the stuff out. If you think about it, we and Auran would all probably be a lot better off.

I'm not begrudging the price of 2010, I think it's the way you're going about things. Auran is becoming deceitful and that's not good for anyone. Had you used you newsletters to tell us of your changes in strategy, or at at least come to these forums and did it, maybe some of us wouldn't be so upset. But no, you fill your so-called newsletters with advertising and little else.

Please learn to communicate. Have a presence on these forums and try to close the division that's getting wider by the day. You are the ones who will benefit.

john259
October 27th, 2009, 11:00 AM
WindWalkr is Chris Bergmann, the lead programmer for Trainz. He often posts on the TrainzDev technical forum.

John

Johnk
October 27th, 2009, 11:04 AM
Thanks John.

AndrewofWare
October 27th, 2009, 04:25 PM
I hope this is not a silly question. Do I need to buy Trainz 2009 if I want to use Trainz 2010? The website says everything (surveyor and railyard) is included, but I am wondering why it is called the Engineers Edition.


No you don't need to buy 2009.

I think the "Engineers Edition" title is due to the fact that Auran promised an "EE" version of 2009, which has been overtaken by 2010. It's just "marketing blurb" so don't worry!

Cheers

Chris


"Engineers Edition" reflects the gameplay focus of this edition as compared to the "World Builders Edition" which was focused on enhanced capabilities.

TS2010 is a full product in its own right and not an addon, you don't need a previous TS2009 install.

chris

Thanks for your replies. I will now get my order in.

airtime
October 27th, 2009, 04:37 PM
I'm considering ordering Trainz 2010, but I have a couple of questions that I would like answering before I make my order.

With the announcement of speedtree, will speedtree work in Native Mode and Compatibility Mode in Trainz 2010?

Also

In the past I reported a fault with silver land when it rains and white snowy land when it's stormy, will this have been fixed in the new Trainz 2010?

If both of the answers are yes, then I will place my order...

Many Thanks

Joe Airtime
By the way love the Intercity 125 on the cover, I really do hope Auran has updated this fabulous train in Trainz 2010, along with the consist of the coaching stock.

martinvk
October 27th, 2009, 04:41 PM
... As of today I have not downloaded (successfully) a single thing from the DLS and I've been with Trainz since 2001.

Wait, I tell a lie. I think I downloaded the Monorail system for 2006 years ago and it worked. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it was in the service pack. It's so long ago I've forgotten.

....
If you don't download because there is nothing that interests you on the DLS is one thing but to say the system doesn't work ... a bit of an exaggeration. :eek:

Granted I tend to make my own objects so I don't need to download much but when there is something I need and I don't want to reinvent the wheel, it is downloaded without any fuss using FTP. Works every time with the added bonus that if I need to import again, I have the CDP file locally, no need to download it again. :)

If you haven't used FTP, give it a try. Many fine objects are waiting to be downloaded. :cool:

martinvk
October 27th, 2009, 04:54 PM
And my point was Trainz should of have both in the game, not wait for some 3rd party person to do it.
You jest? Do you seriously think that Auran, by themselves, could produce the wealth of objects on the DLS, and on top of that expect them to include it in-game?
1), I think us content creators out number them by a very wide margin,
2) 3rd party creators have a much better chance of producing local content for everyone's taste since they are from everywhere,
3) if you thought the screams of "what's all that foreign content getting in the way of my pleasure" was loud before, imagine the noise if the DLS or even a portion was built-in too.
:)


While I still agree it's just eye candy, it does add something to see people walk to your train to get on. Or even just walk around, as you pass by stations and towns. It gives a felling of being in a living world. True but it's only eye candy if it belongs in your world. In other worlds, it could be just clutter to get rid of :o

RoysTrainz
October 27th, 2009, 07:14 PM
I have my own theories about Auran's current marketing strategies, but suffice to say many of us could have survived adequately without TRS2009 had we known that a completely new wiz-bang package was being released twelve months down the track. Instead of doing card tricks by telling us 2009 is "Part A" and then telling us it isn't, why don't you just offer the regulars (devotees if you like) an annual subscription like the first class ticket? We could cough up with $30 every year and you could keep churning the stuff out. If you think about it, we and Auran would all probably be a lot better off.

I'm not begrudging the price of 2010, I think it's the way you're going about things. Auran is becoming deceitful and that's not good for anyone. Had you used you newsletters to tell us of your changes in strategy, or at at least come to these forums and did it, maybe some of us wouldn't be so upset. But no, you fill your so-called newsletters with advertising and little else.

Please learn to communicate. Have a presence on these forums and try to close the division that's getting wider by the day. You are the ones who will benefit.


Johnk you spent a lot of time on the forum and your way of writing is clear and straight forward.
My english isn't wat it was before, maybe because i start talk thai english the way my dear wife does.

Johnk: you nailed it again and makes my closed thread more than meaningful besides the loads of crab of people like Woody and friends try to bury my good intentions.
file:///C:/Users/ROYPRE%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.pnghttp://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=37173&highlight=joosten

AGAIN I PROPOSE TO AURAN INSTEAD OF CONFUSING YOURSELF AND LOYAL CUSTOMERS LOOK AT A MAINTENANCE FEE BASED APPROACH.

Now we pay too but under a lot of confusion and many turn their back because they feel cheated.

If you sold this under yearly maintenance fee for 30 or so buck NOBODY would discuss what you deliver here only say WOW look what they do for their customers!!!More than just repair and bug fixing.

That's how I and I see Johnk and many others look at it too.

Instead of the lifetime FCT for 80some buck you could have offered people maintenance for 3 or some year which has more value than the dl trick.
I never ever used again the FCT after so many years as its a luxury item compared to what we really needed.

Johnk I support you on your quest for a maintenance fee.

PAGING WOODY:
To end with how come you not spit on this fellow with your little friends when he talks about some good proposals???

from a sunny and peaceful Thailand

Roy;)

WindWalkr
October 27th, 2009, 07:17 PM
can you at least tell us what do you do at Auran. Spiffy and Zec gave us a bit of info about themselves, but if you also wrote something, I must have missed it like all your other posts. Sorry about that.

Nah, you were just nine years too late in looking for it.. ;-)

As others have noted, I'm the lead programmer here. I don't find any reason to make a big fuss about that- I'm not a forum mod or community rep and I don't really want to be mistaken for either.



many of us could have survived adequately without TRS2009 had we known that a completely new wiz-bang package was being released twelve months down the track.

Would it upset you to know that we'll have more wiz-bang packages in the future? It's like buying a computer. Of course you know there will be something better if you wait longer. Sooner or later you decide that you like what you see enough to buy it NOW. Sometimes you'll know when something good is just around the corner; sometimes you'll have no idea and the next product will come out the day after you buy your new toy.

I agree that it might be simpler if marketing just shut up about new products until they were ready, but the world doesn't always work the way engineers might like ;-)



why don't you just offer the regulars (devotees if you like) an annual subscription like the first class ticket? We could cough up with $30 every year and you could keep churning the stuff out. If you think about it, we and Auran would all probably be a lot better off.

Personally, I'm a big fan of the subscription idea. I pay ~US$15/mo plus the regular retail boxed copies for one popular game, and am more than happy to do so given the frequent updates that it receives. I do think that an "all access" pass for Trainz products or something similar is a great idea for our loyal users. Take my thoughts with a grain of salt, I'm not in charge of the business model.



Auran is becoming deceitful and that's not good for anyone. Had you used you newsletters to tell us of your changes in strategy, or at at least come to these forums and did it, maybe some of us wouldn't be so upset.

I strongly disagree with these points. Changing plans doesn't make us deceitful. In fact, being open with our users is what is causing your negative impressions- if we had not mentioned the product ahead-of-time, you would have never been aware of our original plans for the product and the TS2010:EE announcement would have come as a complete surprise. As it is, the final product announcement is very close to our original stated plans, except that we're (a) later than we originally intended and (b) including more goodies as a result.

Additionally, we have made every effort to communicate the new direction for TS2010:EE on each channel available to us- the announcement forum, the general forums, the newsletters, even the product web site (http://www.ts2010.com/). If you have been away from the forums and don't read our newsletters, I don't see how we can reach out any further than we already have.

kind regards,

chris

fastdraw
October 27th, 2009, 11:46 PM
This sounds like a winning idea!
I take it that I could open a route in surveyor, that uses them of course.
Then go to drive now, select a season, and have some trees change to reflect this.
Could you post a screen showing this, say a position in a route with several seasons shown. Thanks.
I haven't found any so far as yet?
Thanks

OldSalt
October 28th, 2009, 03:34 PM
You jest? Do you seriously think that Auran, by themselves, could produce the wealth of objects on the DLS, and on top of that expect them to include it in-game?

You miss understood, I was only referring to the birds and people walking around at the stations.

FlyingScottmond
October 28th, 2009, 04:01 PM
Me, but to preoder EE I've got alot of mowing to afford it even with my discount. :D

hert
October 28th, 2009, 05:00 PM
yes i have preordered my 2010 EE ive been happy with all my trainz versions i just have one questions. Will EE be able to run all my content that i have in 2009 including past versions? And will EE install on top of 2009 because i want all the 2010 features but also all the 2009 content (the previous version content included in 2009).
thx, hert

itareus
October 28th, 2009, 05:11 PM
....Will EE be able to run all my content that i have in 2009 including past versions? And will EE install on top of 2009....

Yes and er... Yes.

NICKEL
October 28th, 2009, 09:29 PM
Order placed. :D :D

Dap
October 29th, 2009, 12:23 AM
Does Auran keep records of who preordered TR2009 and got the discount for 2010EE? I think I did that, but my computer crashed and I lost all my old emails.

ZecMurphy
October 29th, 2009, 12:31 AM
Yes, we do. If you pre-ordered it, then you will see a voucher in your profile for the TS2010:EE. You can also check the order date for your TS2009 order in your order history, found in your planet auran profile (click on 'profile' at the top).

Johnk
October 29th, 2009, 01:53 AM
Hi Zec, Do you know the 2009 cut off pre-order date to qualify for the discount voucher? My cased copy was shipped on the 8th December 2008, but I thought I ordered earlier than that. I paid $AU 39.95 which I think was the pre-order price. There is no discount voucher in my voucher file.

While I have your attention. What does "your banners" mean on my profile page? Is there a FAQ or help file to tell me what it means?

Regards,

John

higgikay
October 29th, 2009, 02:00 AM
Placed the order yesterday for a box copy. :)

What I'm hoping for is, that the documentation will be better this time. This especially for content creators, because their efforts is a big part of the fun I have with it. It really hurts me to read that a cc looses his/her interest or fate, because of frustration belonging to the miss of a new CC guide.

Cheers Kay:wave:

geoffwilliams
October 29th, 2009, 06:11 AM
Bollocks! I and many TS2009 buyers were duped into buying TS2009 BECAUSE it would have the surveyor ability and the next one ( TS0x EE ) wouldn't. Now it seems I could have waited for the extra's without spending money on TS2009.
Spot On!
Geoff

geoffwilliams
October 29th, 2009, 06:14 AM
.

I'm not begrudging the price of 2010, I think it's the way you're going about things. Auran is becoming deceitful and that's not good for anyone. Had you used you newsletters to tell us of your changes in strategy, or at at least come to these forums and did it, maybe some of us wouldn't be so upset. But no, you fill your so-called newsletters with advertising and little else.

Please learn to communicate. Have a presence on these forums and try to close the division that's getting wider by the day. You are the ones who will benefit.
I am
Bought TS2009 + Cabon City + Murchison2 + Settle and Carlisle + TC3 and don't qualify for a discount because I did not pre-order 2009
Geoff

russellwhite2007
October 29th, 2009, 06:15 AM
I preorderd.

Heres hoping it works better than all the rest....

Doudar
October 29th, 2009, 08:37 AM
:cool:out of curiosity just to see who else besides me preordered??????
Interesting to see how many reply positive on this one
Spiffy I sincerely hope this one is not one of the many full of 'xxx' unwanted surprises and for once a real nice to say WOW.
I sincerely want to say one time without hesitation GREAT work guys.
See you on November 16 lining up for DL.

Roy;)

Just bought 2009 and then seen the link to pre-order 2010, wonder if their will give me a discount? :(


John

stovepipe
October 29th, 2009, 09:02 AM
I would preorder, but for the little asterisk next to the route list, which says "route list subject to change."

Not sure what advantage there is to preordering, but I think I'll wait and see if the ECML routes make the release first.

RoysTrainz
October 29th, 2009, 06:38 PM
Dear John,

think about it you want Auran to be succesful for a long time to enjoy their and our products right? Well give them the what is it 8 usd "discount" to make things better. My take on this but who am I. lol

Stovepipe 'route list subject to change' don't worry about it if you buy for the new functionality and speedtree. Routes is what surveyor allows you to make too. There are a few really good ones for sale now like murchison 2.

ya'll have a real nice day

Roy

Smileyman
October 30th, 2009, 09:50 AM
Nope, I won't be pre-ordering.

I'll wait until a few months after release to see how it's going, and if the comments aren't good, then I'll wait until the next version.

TRS2004 still filling the void in the Train-Sim world very nicely thank you.

Smiley.

airtime
October 30th, 2009, 12:30 PM
I've just pre ordered Trainz 2010,

It looks as though I will have to pay the full asking price for Trainz 2010, as I never got any vouchers when I placed my order, even though I have two seperate versions of Trainz 2009. May be I might be lucky and ask for a double discount, or am I just being cheeky...

Joe Airtime

rame
October 31st, 2009, 03:02 AM
hello

excuse my bad English.

box version preordered, it will be in French?
thank you for an answer.
if so I . preordered .
friendly :wave:

stovepipe
October 31st, 2009, 08:03 AM
Just read the 30 Oct 09 newsletter. It seems we may be getting the ECML route Kings Cross to York (175 miles).........

Time for that pre-order I think!

I see they are using Ocemy's ND5 in the screenshots - hopefully there will be more stuff of that quality included.

stovepipe
October 31st, 2009, 08:08 AM
duplicate post

stovepipe
October 31st, 2009, 08:14 AM
duplicate post

elgato
October 31st, 2009, 09:06 AM
Just preordered TS2010 yesterday.
Gilles

airtime
October 31st, 2009, 02:20 PM
Yes, we do. If you pre-ordered it, then you will see a voucher in your profile for the TS2010:EE. You can also check the order date for your TS2009 order in your order history, found in your planet auran profile (click on 'profile' at the top).

I never got any voucher, eventhough I pre-ordered two seperate versions of Trainz 2009 back in December 2008, I've just now pre-ordered Trainz 2010 at the cost of £24.99 (includes airmail charge £4.95) total price £29.94, is this the right price, if someone could let me know, I'd be very grateful...

Many Thanks in advance

Joe Airtime

Originalwelshborder
October 31st, 2009, 05:53 PM
I think you were too late to qualify for a voucher if you ordered in December.
The price must be ok, you can only order 2010 direct from Auran at present. Not quite sure about the air mail, previously Mike10 has posted the uk copies in this country from a bulk supply.
I've ordered mine in Australian dollars (just being quirky) as I always have.

perry_weekley
October 31st, 2009, 06:35 PM
I'm thinking of preordering but since I told my parents I wanted 2009 for Christmas I might be too late so I won't be buying till 2010 if I do end up buying it. Sadly since that one video with the purple/pinkish engine is just what I wanted from a Trainz game.

Shortline2
November 1st, 2009, 02:30 AM
Hi,

I've finally been home long enough to actually get the preorder thing done, I wanted to do this as I feel that while I might have not used TS2009 as much as though when I got it, I still want TS2010 as I feel it can only get better.
I like TS2009, I like the idea of layers in TS2010 and buy it for that part, and the trees of course - and I like to support this program the best I can as it has really given my life a lot of pleasure and ways to deal with life's bad turns that I never had before I found Trainz around 2001...

Just happy to help out, I been paying a lot of money lately for pleasures lasting way less so it is great value for the minutes of joy I get from it.
My husband is at the hospital now for the 23rd day, and while we hope he get home this coming week, we have weeks, possible months of hard times in front of us while he heals and I know Trainz will help at least me deal with all this.

I look forward to see TS2010, to try find time to explore and play with it, and the mere cents I pay for having this pleasure available to me whenever I feel for it, I can easy survive luckily - it sure beats 2 hours drive each day to get to a hospital and sit there all day long with expensive parking and all...

Take care all, and we all should do what we feel is the best for us, that is all anyone can expect from anybody.

Linda

airtime
November 1st, 2009, 04:33 AM
I think you were too late to qualify for a voucher if you ordered in December.
The price must be ok, you can only order 2010 direct from Auran at present. Not quite sure about the air mail, previously Mike10 has posted the uk copies in this country from a bulk supply.
I've ordered mine in Australian dollars (just being quirky) as I always have.

Thank you Originalwelshborder for the quick reply, Yes I've pre-ordered Trainz 2010 from the Auran shop, just to make sure the Auran team gets all the money for all the hard work they have put in. I just wanted to make sure that the price was right, I'm happy with the price so long as it works, which I believe it will, as I have faith in the Auran team.

Once again thanks Originalwelshborder for your reply

Joe Airtime

Vern
November 1st, 2009, 04:50 AM
Well I took the plunge and pre-ordered.

After long sober reflection and a further frustrating couple of days trying to make some headway in RW, I decided showing support for Auran is the right thing to do. I still think they are our best hope for the future of the train simming hobby and of all the developers/publishers, have their finger on the pulse of what we want. I've bought every other version up to now so it seems silly not to come to the party on this one.

I have told the wife she can wrap it up and put it away for my Xmas present, always assuming it gets through our current wave of postal strikes here in the UK in time!

The 20% discount effectively pays for the shipping so not too bad.

However I have taken a raincheck on the updated S&C until, 1. It comes as a DVD version and, 2. See what (if any) updated UK content is in TS2010.

jammydodger
November 1st, 2009, 07:17 AM
It's a fact of life .. the greater the ability of the engine to simulate a more natural envirenment , the more complex the tools and skills required to add the game. ..

O/T .. the other product does have it's fair share of problems and you'll need to use it to find out how bad some things really are.

:)

I got RailWorks VERY shortly after it was released. I have been using it on a high spec computer, with all detail settings on maximum. I have not found very many problems with it, and those I have found, are merely little bugs which you can overcome. The only thing I don't like about it is the route and scenario editors; they need to be less complicated. As for TS2010; I'm not sure whether I'll pre-order, OR buy it. TBH, I bought TS2009 but didn't register it in case I wanted to sell it. As you fellows at Auran may be able to see, it's still unregistered. And always will be. But I've still got it, just not worth downloading anything for it. TS2010 looks like it could either be a HUGE success or it could be a complete pile of..... Well, you know. I'lljust tag along with RailWorks and wait to see what happens in TSX!

ECML 175 miles Kings Cross to York
YAY!

Looks like they're using Ocemy's ND5 in their screenshots
They are sane! (bring on the Chinese routes!)

Vern
November 1st, 2009, 07:48 AM
The main problem with RW (and not to veer this thread off topic) is that so far as route building is concerned, it has all the drawbacks of MSTS (compared to Trainz) not to mention a few things which make it even tougher or slower to use. And unless you're prepared to spend days on a 1km strip it doesn't really look that much better. A forest still looks like a bunch of spindly trees planted in the grassy plain, not a venerable overgrown wood that's been there for 100's of years - an effect you can produce nicely in TRS with a good terrain mix and judicious use of the third party grass etc. splines.

john_goddard
November 1st, 2009, 08:30 AM
Hi,

I've finally been home long enough to actually get the preorder thing done, I wanted to do this as I feel that while I might have not used TS2009 as much as though when I got it, I still want TS2010 as I feel it can only get better.
I like TS2009, I like the idea of layers in TS2010 and buy it for that part, and the trees of course - and I like to support this program the best I can as it has really given my life a lot of pleasure and ways to deal with life's bad turns that I never had before I found Trainz around 2001...

Just happy to help out, I been paying a lot of money lately for pleasures lasting way less so it is great value for the minutes of joy I get from it.
My husband is at the hospital now for the 23rd day, and while we hope he get home this coming week, we have weeks, possible months of hard times in front of us while he heals and I know Trainz will help at least me deal with all this.

I look forward to see TS2010, to try find time to explore and play with it, and the mere cents I pay for having this pleasure available to me whenever I feel for it, I can easy survive luckily - it sure beats 2 hours drive each day to get to a hospital and sit there all day long with expensive parking and all...

Take care all, and we all should do what we feel is the best for us, that is all anyone can expect from anybody.

Linda

Hi Linda,
sorry to hear of your troubles, I can understand how Trainz has been a big help to you. I have been caring for my wife for the last 2 years since she was in hospital for 7 months ( critical twice}. I too find Trainz helps enormously to let my mind escape the endless routine of caring, not that I resent doing it, at least my dear wife is still with me.
Anyway, long live Trainz!! Shame on all it's knockers!! John.

HJAAM
November 1st, 2009, 10:47 AM
I have pre orderd TS2010.
I have all the simulators because it's big fun to get in your selfmade world.

What i hope is a standard for buildings etc so you can import them in every TS.

Greetings Harry

gp792
November 1st, 2009, 11:53 AM
From seeing the overhauled GM class, HST, DL531, 48 class, and new coaches, I think I might purchase this game. By the way, check out the new screenshots, they're impressive.

Shortline2
November 1st, 2009, 12:19 PM
Hi Linda,
sorry to hear of your troubles, I can understand how Trainz has been a big help to you. I have been caring for my wife for the last 2 years since she was in hospital for 7 months ( critical twice}. I too find Trainz helps enormously to let my mind escape the endless routine of caring, not that I resent doing it, at least my dear wife is still with me.
Anyway, long live Trainz!! Shame on all it's knockers!! John.

Thank you John!

Sorry to hear about the troubles your family too have to suffer through, I can easily imagine the stress such situation puts one mind into, and it is important to have an outlet from time to time.
I my self find a lot of joy in having to chance to care - like I think we all do - but sometimes things just grow over my head and I get exhausted.
For us this is a new situation, kinda like TS2010 will be, full of frustration and joy, the balance will be found in the end. :)

Sorry for the little off track in this thread, take care and as you say, long live Trainz! :D

Linda

schouten25
November 1st, 2009, 05:07 PM
I did trie to be active in beta testing, but I lost the thread at all during this summer. The computer has been idle for a long time and now I will trie to get back. May be not beta testing, so I pre-ordered and will have a close look at it during wintertime.
Joop

LGBMATT
November 1st, 2009, 05:58 PM
I just preordered the box set. I'm adding it to my collection of Trainz boxes. lol

Matt

deegeeze74
November 2nd, 2009, 03:56 PM
yep i preordered it too hope i wont b dissappointed

falcon500
November 2nd, 2009, 04:37 PM
Yeah I preordered 1st because it will be dearer when it arrives in shops, 2nd because it may be more stable than TRS2009 and has more content. I didn't buy 2009 because it seemed to me to be very much an unfinished product.
I had a choice of buying 2010 or upgrading RS to Railworks but didn't fancy spending large amounts of money for the locos I'd like to have. Railworks is even charging for extra sessions how lousy can you get? At least with TRS I have some ability to create my own content.

Vern
November 3rd, 2009, 03:53 AM
Slightly OT (again!) I never realised until yesterday how much German content was in TS2009, compared even to TRS2006. Hopefully this will all be in TS2010. Contrast that to the pitiful state of RW where, as Falcon says, if any content does emerge it's going to be at £12 a hit for a locomotive and few items of rolling stock. TS2009 (and again presumably 2010) has tons of different buildings even complete city blocks so you don't even need to go near the DLS for additional content if you don't want to.

As I say my only caveat is that having given Auran my £25.00 I would like to see this invested in further upgrades that bring the core up to Speedtree standard - my top five probably being: 1. Correctly drawn points i.e. frogs & flanges, 2. Built in curve control for splines, 3. Default tunnels can be laid at any angle, 4. A stab at autonomous AI/timetable operations and 5. Maybe a career mode to rival RS.com's proposed extension to RW.

Euphod
November 3rd, 2009, 09:28 AM
I'm waiting for a sign...http://home.comcast.net/%7Eeuphod1/pwpimages/hell_freezing.jpg. Or maybe pigs on the wing...

Johnk
November 3rd, 2009, 09:32 AM
Good evening!

deeelare
November 3rd, 2009, 10:06 AM
I'm waiting for a sign.... Or maybe pigs on the wing...

Well , surprise , surprise old friend :wave: !! --- ,dave

FootplatePhil
November 5th, 2009, 05:12 PM
Just preordered myself a Christmas present.

geoffwilliams
November 5th, 2009, 05:59 PM
Well, said I'd never pre-order again, but have. Need to get the discount for TS2020:o

Anyway, frustrations aside, Trainz must be the best value for money of any hobby.

Nice to see you back Vern.
Geoff

mcguirel
November 10th, 2009, 02:34 PM
Went to go place my pre-order today, and it is now approx $8 higher so I have decided to wait till it hits the retail stores for $46.38 plus $8 shipping for DVD Box Version.
If it does not hit a retailer shelf, then guess I will stick with TRS2006.

If it does not hit the shelves of a local retailer, I am passing on it unfortunately as I assumed the $39.99 price was still available today.
At that price, I will wait for views of others and issues to be announced (usually the norm) to then justify the higher price.

john_goddard
November 10th, 2009, 02:43 PM
Went to go place my pre-order today, and it is now approx $8 higher so I have decided to wait till it hits the retail stores for $46.38 plus $8 shipping for DVD Box Version.
If it does not hit a retailer shelf, then guess I will stick with TRS2006.

If it does not hit the shelves of a local retailer, I am passing on it unfortunately as I assumed the $39.99 price was still available today.
At that price, I will wait for views of others and issues to be announced (usually the norm) to then justify the higher price.

I assume that you have noticed Auran now show price in Australian dollars??? John.

mcguirel
November 10th, 2009, 03:05 PM
Yep, thus the $46.38 US Dollar Price in post and was $39.99 US Dollars last week. My pre-order was going to be the DVD Box version plus shipping and not due out till December 1st, so thus why my pre-order was three weeks out, but not at the elevated price. I will wait to see what others experience and let them be guinea pigs due to the past experiences with TS2009 before dropping that kind of money on my fourth version purchase.

john_goddard
November 10th, 2009, 03:26 PM
Yes, you are correct , they do seem to have raised the price, by 6.34 US$ by my conversion table. So either sales are going well, I would expect a reduction if they were not!, or they have made a mistake in their conversion to Aus $ ! John.

nbrettoner
November 10th, 2009, 04:59 PM
:o
It wasn't me!.
Was there only one copy?. :eek:
I wonder who the blighter was, then!?? :confused:

Hope they catch him soon.
We don't want any wayward 2010's floating about.
They might bbreed!!~ :'(

:hehe:

Johnk
November 10th, 2009, 06:51 PM
It has got up to AU$50.

Well I didn't pre-order it mainly because I never got a discount voucher which I think I was entitled to. I'm positive the AU$39.99 I paid for Trainz2009 was the pre-order price, and I certainly recall waiting several weeks for it to arrive, but maybe I'm wrong. I did ask Zec, but never received a reply.

I might sit 2010 out completely and let everyone else sort out the problems if any. At least I'll wait until SP2 is released

mcguirel
November 10th, 2009, 07:03 PM
:o
It wasn't me!.
Was there only one copy?. :eek:
I wonder who the blighter was, then!?? :confused:

Hope they catch him soon.
We don't want any wayward 2010's floating about.
They might bbreed!!~ :'(

:hehe:

Who may I ask are you referencing as the Blighter? Having a hard time finding your comment to be revelant to the Pre-Order TS2010:EE Post.:confused:

Johnk
November 10th, 2009, 07:14 PM
I think those little yellow round things are his marbles and he's just lost the lot of them!

alpha11
November 10th, 2009, 07:24 PM
I think everyone that purchased 2009 should at least get it for $29.99 US, that is what I paid for 2009 download. Why the price increase?

Sek_Hakuna
November 10th, 2009, 08:02 PM
I just pre-ordered this afternoon. Price was $49.99 AUD which is about $48 US currency. I don't mind, it's just ten bucks.

Looking forward to getting it up and running. Gonna be so cool!

Randy

knight42
November 11th, 2009, 08:39 AM
I've just taken the plunge and pre-ordered the retail box. I consider myself "burned" by 2009, but I'm hopeful that 2010 will be an improvement, and I also want to support Auran - if they have no money we have no Trainz. I just hope they come up with the goods.

In the meantime I can continue building my Herefordshire route in TS2006. :)

Paulsw2
November 11th, 2009, 03:56 PM
I've pre-ordered 2010. Points to note: (1) I'm relieved I didn't buy-in to TS2009, commiserations to those who did. (2) We've had 3 versions of this game in 16 months. I'm bewildered. :eek:

Paul (old fashioned in liking a new version of the game every 18 months or so)

john_goddard
November 11th, 2009, 04:30 PM
I've pre-ordered 2010. Points to note: (1) I'm relieved I didn't buy-in to TS2009, commiserations to those who did. (2) We've had 3 versions of this game in 16 months. I'm bewildered. :eek:

Paul (old fashioned in liking a new version of the game every 18 months or so)

Why "commiserations" ? We have had 12 months use of TS2009WBE, which works out at about £1.60 per month and I ,for one , do not regret buying. I have made great progress on a new route in native mode which I can continue in Ts2010. If no one had bought Ts2009 there would not be a Ts2010 and, probably, no Auran Trainz! John.

stovepipe
November 11th, 2009, 05:34 PM
I have placed my order today.....

Re TRS2009WBE - yes initial hassles, but over the year it has panned out pretty well. I can run routes in 09 that just wouldn't on my set-up in 06. The graphics are crisper, I wouldn't go without the replace assets tool now and the asset picker is great too. Oh yes, I forgot it (almost) never crashes. The main downsides are that a few scripted assets are broken, signals and stations mainly.

CM2 is pretty foolproof - no issues there. I have moved over the best assets, fixed a few broken things, updated my steamers to the latest specs and I'm now organised and ready to play with 2010EE.

Still route building in 06 though........ at least for another month or two:hehe:.