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View Full Version : Baseboard Edges on DEM Funky - Dermmy?



Rougespear7mm
June 9th, 2009, 03:58 AM
Hi there all!

I'm importing a DEM map made with HOG into Trainz to use for my topography, but I'm having some interesting things happen. At the baseboard edges, ALL THE BASEBOARD EDGES, I can see a definite change in the topography; all running at right angles to eachother and along the baseboard edges. The terrian is just slightly deformed along this lines, and when I apply texture, it appears lighter along these lines than on the rest of the baseboard. I'm getting the exact same result when I import the .gnd file into TRS2006 and TS2009.

Funny thing is, I have a DEM file that I made of a different area, and when I import that one, the baseboard lines are not visable and it all textures evenly! I've made both DEM's exactly the same though MicroDEM and HOG.

Why am I having a problem with the different topo area? Any thoughts one what I'm doing wrong? Any fixes/workarounds? Dermmy? - I seem to remember you maybe having a problem with this...

Thanks all! :)

Tiger313
June 9th, 2009, 05:36 AM
When i was working on a DEM generated map in TRS'04, the baseboard edges looked like they had some sort of shade on it. Didn't matter if I used any terraforming tools on it, the outlines of the baseboards were always visible. So yeah: I'm curious to know if there is a fix for this, too. :)

Dermmy
June 9th, 2009, 06:00 AM
There is an issue with the way HOG references baseboard edges - two edges are recorded twice, once for each board, and this can result in strange texture errors along edges. Not all edges are so effected, and it seems to show up more on steep hillsides. It seems also to show up more on routes which have been merged. AFAIK this effect is not visible in TRS04 (for which HOG was designed) but shows up in later versions.

My Clovis route is infected with this problem - it was created from two merged DEM routes in TRS04 - and there is an area around Abo Canyon which looks terrible in TRS06 despite looking perfect in 04.

I have seen a workaround mentioned in the forum, but I cannot find the thread, IIRC it involved re-texturing a small part of the effected area and then 'Undoing' the change. I cannot replicate the fix, but I may not be recalling the procedure correctly, hopefully it gets a mention again in this thread....

Andy ;)

geophil
June 9th, 2009, 06:50 AM
There is a two vertex overlap between baseboards. 76 instead of 72 for the 10m grid. I presume overlapping vertices should have same height and texture set on both baseboards. Rumours say, HOG does not handle this properly but I have never checked. Neither am I sure that TransDEM is absolutely correct in its handling.

Rougespear7mm
June 9th, 2009, 01:37 PM
Is there any hope that TransDEM will not reproduce this problem with DEMs?

After further testing, I've discovered that I can, in fact, texture the area correctly (in TS2009) where the baseboards join, but there is still the problem of the topography being messed up along all the baseboard edges!

I'm doing a route that's 120 miles long, and I don't know if I will have the mindset to go through it and manually adjust these "edges" to match the rest of the topography. This is going to be a freeware route and I really don't want to spend $33 on the TransDEM program, but if it solves this problem, then perhaps I will... Will it though?

Dermmy
June 9th, 2009, 03:37 PM
I have used Transdem for a truly huge route in TRS06 and there is no disruption along baseboard edges - none.

I have found tho that with HOG generated route the lumps and bumps near the track edge need fixed (generally a quick tap of the 'Plateau' tool does the trick) but I only fix three or four 'squares' from the track. Farther back than that the irregularities pretty much disappear under ground texture.

I can 'fix' the ground texture problem in TRS06 by re-texturing the effected areas, but the effect returns after a couple of saves. Let me know if it stays fixed in 09...

Andy

Rougespear7mm
June 9th, 2009, 03:48 PM
Well, I've been back and fourth now for 5 hours between TRS06 and TS09 experimenting with routes. The baseboard edges are screwed up topography wise along every baseboard edge in both 2006 and 2009 - there's small ups and downs so to speak that will need to be tweaked. So far, after 15-20 different saves and reloads, the textures are still holding fine over the baseboard edges in 2009, but are still failing and very visable in 2006.

I'm leaning towards grabbing TransDEM, but money is really VERY tight right now with university and all. I was planning to make this route freeware, but I don't want to spend anymore money buying software to do the route, lol. I wish it was freeware; then we'd have a heck of a lot more routebuilders going after prototypical routes! I'm not sure what to do... I really don't wish to spend more money, but I may very well have to because I don't think I will have the mindset to go back and tweak every baseboard edge for 130 miles!!

Brent

Dinorius_Redundicus
June 9th, 2009, 08:13 PM
Brent

Were you at any stage merging terrain to assemble your map in Trainz? If so, I know that this frequently produces topographic anomalies along the lines where the sub-maps join (in every version of Trainz as far as I know). These anomalies were sometimes just a little unevenness, but could often be huge ridges or gullies on steeply sloping terrain.

The work-around was to start with a blank 1-board "dummy" section and merge the first map to that, then add the second map. Then delete the 1-board section. It's as if the 1-board section acts as a reference point for the main blocks of terrain.

As for the unbearable lightness of the edges, I have seen that annoying effect in TRS2004 as well. Obviously another long-lived bug that has never been addressed.

~ Deane

Rougespear7mm
June 9th, 2009, 09:31 PM
Yes, I have been properly "merging" the routes together using a blank baseboard to begin with... it still produces uneven terrian at the baseboard junctions! :(

Dinorius_Redundicus
June 10th, 2009, 12:09 AM
Sorry to hear that. I'm all out of tricks if that didn't work.

cascaderailroad
June 10th, 2009, 09:47 AM
First off...How long is your DEM, and how wide is your DEM ? Merging a DEM to another route, that has uneven heights where they join, can be done by laying hundereds of 105' Freeway road splines, right next to one another (employing the Hold Shift Key technique) then hitting the smooth spline tool button. Unknown what causes edge deformities, and 300' cliff drop-off's.

A person who created my DEM, uses Transdem and uses 1/3 arc second data, instead of the usual 10 or 3 arc second data.

One thing I always wondered, for example on the Fishlipsatwork DEM-HoseshoeCurve, Why do all the Transdem colors permanently dissappear from the mini map once, you delete a track, change a height, or add a texture.
http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_004-4.jpg

Rougespear7mm
June 10th, 2009, 02:44 PM
I think I'm going to go the way of TransDEM. The program looks to be solid, and overlaying the DEM's with topo maps will be a big time saver. I think it will be worth the $33!

PGibbons
June 10th, 2009, 06:21 PM
The shading problem still appears with route files built with TransDEM.

Ive found that if you do a "get height" then a "apply height" at a point along the shaded line it will revert to the normal texture.

PG

Dermmy
June 10th, 2009, 06:58 PM
Ive found that if you do a "get height" then a "apply height" at a point along the shaded line it will revert to the normal texture.

PG

Racing off to try that now.....

:)

backyard
June 10th, 2009, 07:01 PM
:cool: Yes, TransDEM(Trainz Edition) recognizes defects in the DEM & automatically tries to fix them & has a tool to allow DEM smoothing, amongst other things...

However what is missed is easily fixed if you go to the Surveyor terrain tools & get a elevation, then use the plateau tool in the close area of the elevation.

Don't worry about too much smoothing, the less jagged the baseboard mesh the better...things load quicker...