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bassist118
May 15th, 2009, 05:11 PM
Can the hight a vehicle runs above track be changed, I'm trying to run a boat through a verticle lift bridge but the ship I want to use sits to low in the water is there any way to change the hight it runs above the track to make it sit up in the water and not look like its about to sink? Prehaps somthing in the config.txt can be changed?

Cheers

:D

Andy

Euphod
May 15th, 2009, 05:14 PM
No, as far as I know this is determined in the model making process when the mesh is made.

bassist118
May 15th, 2009, 05:25 PM
Cheers Euphod. Ah well, Anyone know of any good sorces of drivable ships for '04 hard to search for on the DLS without specific names, got all under boat or ship.

:)

Andy

Euphod
May 15th, 2009, 05:37 PM
http://www.ianztrainz.com.au/index.html

The shipping page is down for maintenence right now, but check under downloads, then shipping.

bassist118
May 15th, 2009, 06:13 PM
Thanks Euphod, will keep trying. Just bouncing ideas but could I replace the bogey in the config.txt with one from another ship or boat that sits right in the water?

Andy

cascaderailroad
May 15th, 2009, 06:55 PM
you can raise the height of invisatrack, just the same way that you raise the height of regular track...one spline point at a time...if they are all the same height already...just increase the height, and copy that height, and apply that numeral height on the spline height tool tab in track/surveyor, and go hit every spline point.

Write down the heights in a log book, so you can change them back, if you foul things up.

bassist118
May 16th, 2009, 06:26 AM
you can raise the height of invisatrack, just the same way that you raise the height of regular track...one spline point at a time...if they are all the same height already...just increase the height, and copy that height, and apply that numeral height on the spline height tool tab in track/surveyor, and go hit every spline point.

Write down the heights in a log book, so you can change them back, if you foul things up.

Cant raise the hight coz the invisi track needs to be attatched to the middle of the central span of the lifting bridge which is fixed attachment points, can't raise the bridge either without spoiling 2 months work, the bridge is set up to lift when a ship approaches

Andy

Euphod
May 16th, 2009, 06:37 AM
Then there's the obvious choice of lowering the water....

bendorsey
May 16th, 2009, 07:38 AM
The height of the water doesn't matter. What does is the height of the invisible tracks in the water which are part of the bridge mesh and the height the boat is set to run at on invisible tracks.

If this is one of my bridges I can make a version for you with the invisible tracks in the water at a different height.

Ben

Euphod
May 16th, 2009, 08:12 AM
The height of the water doesn't matter. What does is the height of the invisible tracks in the water which are part of the bridge mesh and the height the boat is set to run at on invisible tracks.

If this is one of my bridges I can make a version for you with the invisible tracks in the water at a different height.

Ben


That's confusing! Are the invisible tracks relative to the height of the land, or the height of the water?

bendorsey
May 16th, 2009, 09:20 AM
There are a number of content creators who make boats (configured like locos) to ride on invisible tracks in the water. When I made my first interactive bridge set up to be normally closed and open at the approach of one of those boats they were kind enough to let me know what "standards" they used so they (and others of course) could use thier boats with my bridge(s).
1. One invisible track at 0 ft 0.0 in.
2. One invisible track at -32 ft 9 in.
3. Water at -9 ft 10 in.

As far as I know these values are relative to the baseboard height. Other heights will work but would have to have boats set up for them. Its pretty obvious a set of standards is a good idea. Any boat can navigate under any bridge. If not one boat might be floating in the air and another pretending to be a submarine, lol.

Perhaps one of these gents will chime in and do a better job of explaining this to you.

Ben

bassist118
May 16th, 2009, 10:02 AM
If this is one of my bridges I can make a version for you with the invisible tracks in the water at a different height.

Ben

Yea it's your kingsferry bridge, if you could just move the attachment points up 4 metres (13 ft) that'll be great, the deck of this bridge is quite low to the water (not sure exactly how far tho). I think there's boats set to 3 metres above the track which'll do the job equally as well out there just finding 'em.

Cheers

Andy

bendorsey
May 16th, 2009, 10:27 AM
First - I just uploaded a corrected version of that bridge to the DLS. I only had photos from the side and none were close up so I had to wing-it for how the road, rail, and pedestrian lanes were arranged. Needless to say I got it all wrong, lol. Thats been corrected and a few actual errors as well (track attachment point height and one rail mis-positioned). emem,ber - trains and cars actually cross moveable bridges in invisible track and invisible road. What you see on them for rails, etc are parts made to look like road and rails - not a real road or rail spline.

Second - which attachment points do you want moved? Those at 0 ft 0 in, those at -32 ft 9 in, or both? Keep in mind very few boats will be able to be used with it as those are non-standard values (or as far as I know). A better idea would be to add another pair (or pairs) at the height(s) you want. That way everyone can use it with most if nmot all boats set up as locos.

Ben

Pencil42
May 16th, 2009, 10:34 AM
The current (unofficial) standard for ships is the track is 3m above the water. There are three other common arrangements - one is with the track 7m below water, one is for the track to be 3m below the water's surface, and you'll also sometimes see ships that use track at the water's surface.
All these systems (except the -3M canal system) assume the land (and rail track) is 3M above water.

Rationale:
The current standard (3m above water) arises from Vulcan's ferry system. This is described on his website (above).
The 7m below water is from the early days of Trainz, before invisible track. Early versions of Trainz would hide track that was underwater, so it was an easy way of hiding the track.
The -3M standard came about for the same reason, but was developed for canal boats, since the canals were not very deep.
And, track at water level is probably the most intuitive, so people unaware of the other standards generally use that.

As for ships, I have two drivable ships on the DLS, 124060:1003:1 and 124060:1000:2. Both are set for track 3M above water.

Other ships are:
+3M track:
60238:9044:2
60238:9518:2
60238:9519:1
60238:9514:1
60238:9027:2
60238:9029:2
60238:9050:1
60238:9501:1
60238:9502:1
60238:9503:1
60238:9508:1
60238:9507:1
60238:9025:2
60238:9045:1
60238:9038:1
60238:9026
60238:9028:1
60238:9011:1
84912:8488:1
84912:50488
78193:924:1

-7M:
36638:10048
36638:10038
60238:9023
78193:923:1
60238:9021
60238:9022
36638:9011

-3M:
36638:10015
36638:9005
36638:9004
36638:9001
36638:9007
36638:9003
36638:9000

Water level:
63290:102:1
78193:925:1

Search tips on the DLS: set your filter to locomotives, and search for title = 'ship' or 'boat'; also try searching description for 'ship', boat', or 'water'. Check all Trainz versions.

Hope that helps!
Curtis

bendorsey
May 16th, 2009, 12:26 PM
Hi Curtis:

Yes - that helps heaps. I was able to get to my profile in time and change this item to "do not process" so I can go back and change the invisible track attachment point heights to whatever ya'll want but your "standards" are referenced to water height. What would they be referenced to the baseboard (z axis = 0 ft 0.0 in in Gmax)?

Ben

Pencil42
May 16th, 2009, 05:39 PM
Hi Ben!

The common convention is for water to be 3M below the surface of the ground. For your bridges, I would put the water level at 3M below 0 in GMAX, put the bridge deck however much higher (or lower) than was prototypical for that particular bridge, and the track level at the proper offset from the -3M water level. For example, if you were doing a bridge with 10M between the bridge deck and the water level, the bridge deck would be at Z=7M (-3 + 10) in gmax. Now, because bridges can be raised and lowered, it really doesn't matter how you set in in gmax, as long as you set the ship track(s) to the proper offsets from the water level.

Ship track 3M above water (current standard) is at ground level (water is at -3M from ground level)
Ian has a nice diagram at http://www.ianztrainz.com.au/project7.htm

Ship track 7M below water is commonly 10M below ground level (water is once again -3M from ground level)

I'm not sure about the canal settings, as I haven't played with them.

bassist118
May 16th, 2009, 07:51 PM
Cheers Guys

That briliant Curtis downloading em now.

Ben if you could add two more boat attachment points at 4 metres then great but I should have gotten back to you sooner, sorry (bloody time differance lol), but I think this'll solve the problem (the only boat I had had its level set too low).

:Y::Y:

Thanks all

Andy

bendorsey
May 17th, 2009, 08:08 AM
Hi Curtis:

Thats where I have them now.

Hi Andy:

OK - will add another pair at -4 meters (-13 ft 1 in). That sound about right?

Ben