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neodoughnut
December 9th, 2008, 04:29 PM
After having installed TS 2009 Beta and Final 4 times and having imported my content previously, I'm always having the same problem in Quick Drive/Driver Mode. When I set an AI train to run between any two or more trackmarks on my custom-made map, the signal immediately before a set of points will always show a red aspect despite the path being clear. This happens everytime an AI train encounters a set of points and whilst the train occasionally clears the signal it will always be red beforehand.

On my TRS2004 and 2006 installation this problem does not exist. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks

Steve

NSWGR_46Class
December 9th, 2008, 04:42 PM
Which signals are you using = some older scripted signals may not work in 2009

neodoughnut
December 9th, 2008, 05:27 PM
Many Thanks for your reply. Generally most signals are normal 4 aspect automatic British Signals. the problem seems to be everywhere, regardless of the types of signals I use. I dont understand why this happens as it works fine in my copy of 2006 which i still have installed. Since I've paid 2009 I would rather use it, aswell as it being better graphically and less resource intensive.

Has anybody else had this problem?

NSWGR_46Class
December 9th, 2008, 07:29 PM
So your saying you are using 2006 signals in 2009 wonder if that is a problem - I do know that if you you use the Australian 2006 sigies in 2009 its a bit of a problem

philskene
December 9th, 2008, 08:08 PM
Hi Steve --

I encountered exactly the same issue when I imported a TRS2004 route into TC3.

See my post #10 in this thread:

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=30791

I suspect that TRS2009 might also use the same signaling scripts as TC3.

See if my solution works for you.

Phil

neodoughnut
December 10th, 2008, 01:37 PM
Once again I'd like to thank those who have replied. After having followed your suggestions, I have tried completely replacing the track, signals and points with the same and other types and even new built stretches still have the same problem. The signals work correctly until they reach a set of points. Even if the path is clear with no trains in the vicinity, the last signal before the points always displays a red aspect. Also the signals approaching the points all display the correct aspect. (ie. green on a long stretch and then double yellow, yellow and finally red.) when the train has to wait approx 30 secs to 2 mins before it clears, even if the points are set correctly.

I'm really baffed ladies and gents. I've started this map in 2004 and have used it in 2006 without a problem. I was thinking that there may be a problem with the scripting (even thought I have typed anything in TRS myself). Or possible they're may be a setting or something I can use to resolve this?

Steve

Paul_Bert
December 10th, 2008, 02:13 PM
I have not found any signals that show a green when the points are set correctly. If someone has signals that do I would like to try them and see if it makes a difference when running the routes.

Thanks

philskene
December 10th, 2008, 03:48 PM
Steve --

Are you using any Track Direction Markers (the yellow cones thingies that stop AI trainz going where they shouldn't)?

From my post above this was the cause of my problem.

Phil

Hot_Box_Detector
December 10th, 2008, 04:20 PM
This seems to be be a problem with AI, I suspect. I have this same problem
on different routes with different signals. All red, no change when points are re-lined for proper movement.
Maybe SP1 will address this...:o

Bloodnok
December 10th, 2008, 08:59 PM
Signalling has changed between TRS06 and TS2009. It now knows a lot more about real signal behaviour.

A couple of examples:

Signals on plain line (with no junctions after them) are normally run as automatic signals in real life, and a signal placed in this way will become an automatic signal in TS2009. This means it does not require an approaching train to make it clear.

Signals with junctions after them are controlled signals in real life - they need a train to approach, with a route set through the signal, in order to clear. Signals placed this way in TS2009 also need an approaching train in order to clear. (Oh, and use locomotives to test this with - if you can't drive it about, why should the signalling set routes for it?).
The important thing here is that regardless of which way the points are set, if there is no train, the signal will not clear.

Both of these are intentional changes.

However, when a train approaches a junction, if the points are set correctly for a route to another signal, there is no blockage on the line (e.g. another train, then the signal should clear. It should do this early enough that the approaching train does not have to slow down significantly.*

If you have a route where a train can approach a signal, with the points set appropriately for the route ahead, and the signal does not clear, then I'd love to see it. Either post a diagram of the junction that fails, and I'll build a copy of it here, or package up the map so I can download it and see the problem.



* (Note: the TC3 semaphores have some real world behaviour where clearing is delayed until the train has nearly stopped when working within station limits. I don't believe any of these semaphores are included in TS9, so it's unlikely you are using these signals - and if you were, you'd probably have said so...)

Mick_Berg
December 11th, 2008, 12:22 AM
Signalling has changed between TRS06 and TS2009. It now knows a lot more about real signal behaviour.......
* (Note: the TC3 semaphores have some real world behaviour where clearing is delayed until the train has nearly stopped when working within station limits. I don't believe any of these semaphores are included in TS9, so it's unlikely you are using these signals - and if you were, you'd probably have said so...)
How do you define "station limits"? This "real world behaviour" seems to happen anywhere on my route (TC3) , and I really don't like it, as express trains have to slow down to get through signals. I hope it will be changed for TS2009.
Another annoying behaviour is when a signal clears to let a train through, but closes too soon, and then the driver is accused of a SPAD. Will this be adressed as well?
Thanks,
Mick Berg.

neodoughnut
December 12th, 2008, 12:26 PM
Once again I'd like to thank those who have posted for their input.

To Bloodnok, I'd just like to advise you that I am having the same problem as Mick_Berg and I have made a short video of the problem that is occurring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0aOGlubDk0

As can be seen in the video, the train in queston is supposed to be an express train and should normally be doing approx 130 mph thru this section. This is only one example of the numerous times that this problem occurs to this train.

Once again, I have tried to replace all the signals with different types, some of the same type, and have even replaced the remaining infrastructure and yet I have the same problem. Directional Trackmarkers are correctly placed too.

Thanks

Mick_Berg
December 15th, 2008, 11:27 PM
Once again I'd like to thank those who have posted for their input.

To Bloodnok, I'd just like to advise you that I am having the same problem as Mick_Berg and I have made a short video of the problem that is occurring.


I think I have fixed the problem by using distant signals (my layout uses semaphore signals.) Have you tried that, or the equivalent in colour light signals??
Mick Berg.

Ryan_McC
December 21st, 2008, 05:13 AM
Hi guys

I'm having the same problem but without AI drivers. The signals used are perfect in terms of the game and real life signalling principals. I'll follow this thread closely.

Driver_Col
December 21st, 2008, 08:16 AM
I don't know whether this relevant to the discussion because I tend to live in DCC mode happily driving around in TC3 however, I get slowed down by "delaying" signals when well away from a station. This is acceptable though because it appears to be triggered by having a number of signals very close together. i.e. If I had a pre-set green at the first signal, I would not have the necessary distance to come to a stop at the next stop signal. It makes sense to me!

Regards. Colin.

backyard
December 21st, 2008, 06:30 PM
:eek: Does this mean my SafeTrain(NS37) & Searchlight signals won't work?

baz66
December 22nd, 2008, 05:29 AM
Yeah noticed the same prob I had a trackmark after a station then signal and track merge. TGV would not go thru and resorted to reversing to find another route yet a single sd40 on it's own navigated the same course with a green signal. I moved the trackmark closer to the points and VOILA! all was well
baz66

neodoughnut
May 4th, 2009, 03:28 PM
Good Evening everyone. I'm sorry to have to bring up this topic again, but after my previous attempts failed and after subsequent updates to TS2009 I gave up and used TRS2006 up until recently. Once again I have decided to try and solve this issue.

I have noted a few things after some trail and testing. The first thing is that I decided to start afresh and loaded the Glasgow to Falkirk map which is part of the TS2009 content delivered with the game, and decided to just insert one thing, which was a BR HST consist supplied with the game. I saved it and told the AI to make its way from Glasgow North to Falkirk High. It proceeded to do so but slow down on several occasions for the signals that had a red aspect before a set of points.

I've even tried designing a fresh map with a variety of different point motors and track design and still face the same problems.

Can anyone shed some light on to this?

Steve

Tidgney
May 5th, 2009, 07:56 AM
My routes do the same aswell :(, i thought it was just apart of the game but i guess its not :O. Help on this then, so i can have high speed trains bulleting through places :D.

neodoughnut
December 5th, 2010, 03:59 PM
Hello Everyone. After having given up on the issue and gone back to 2006, where everything works normally, I decided to have some faith and try 2010.

I tried the new ECML route, and having only put a fresh 47 and saved the route immediately, I then tried the route and used the Drive To Trackmark command, and the AI moved slowly and stopped at every signal which was before a set of points.

I was wondering if, nearly two years later, anyone could still shed some light on this situation.

I find it hard to believe that Auran could have got the signals wrong on an entirely different route, so I have to ask am I using the wrong commands? What is everyone else doing to make this work?

Any help would be much appreciated. :)

Cheers

Kennilworth
December 5th, 2010, 06:38 PM
Hi

I don't think this is a signalling issue but may be due to the sheer size of the route. Where are you driving from and too? As an example if you are starting your train from Kings Cross and telling it to drive to a trackmark at York you are asking the AI to plot a route through hundreds of junctions. It takes a long time to do this and you will get the train being stopped at a signal while the AI thinks about it.

If this is what you are doing try breaking the route up into smaller sections e.g. Navigate via a trackmark at Finsbury Park followed by Navigate via a trackmark at Stevenage and so on up the line.

Regards

Brian

belkenn
December 5th, 2010, 07:13 PM
Hi all:wave:

I was having a similar problem in 2010 using LMS semaphore signals, home signal and left and right combined signals not working correctly. With the home signal I solved the problem with a distant signal and with the branching signal I put a distant signal on the main line and the branch line. This only works if the distant signal is not the last signal on the route. If the line terminates after the distant signal then put a set of buffers or an invisible signal at the end of the line. If space is too tight for a normal signal (i.e. a yard then just use an invisible signal after the point (switch)).
In all cases the home signal goes before the relevant branch.

Mick_Berg
December 18th, 2010, 01:34 PM
Could you explain further what you did to fix the problem? I've replaced all the colour light signals on my short ECML route (KX to Stevenage), initially with simple home signals (Sig UQ Home 20ft) and even if there are no points ahead (like on the fast down line) the train has to at least slow down if not stop at every signal.:(

I have trackmarks at Wood Green and Hatfield, plus a few others to stop the train veering off onto the slow line for no apparent reason.:confused:

Being a novice I don't understand how distants would fix it. Surely if the home signals ahead were at stop, the distants would also be at stop, and make matters worse.

It's pretty pathetic at the moment, Flying Scotsman never gets above 25 mph!

Mick Berg.