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chrisracer8903
January 27th, 2008, 11:59 PM
I know that Auran shutting down is too bad and they say Trainz will still be going on, but will the DLS be still running and will the current group be making new "TRSs" to compete with Rail Simulator and MSTS 2? -Chris

leeferr
January 28th, 2008, 12:34 AM
No crystal ball here.

chrisracer8903
January 28th, 2008, 01:17 AM
It's just I don't want the DLS to get shut down and loose all that content forever! Then I need to save all my routes and assets on CDs. -Chris

paulzmay
January 28th, 2008, 01:39 AM
Yes - if enough of us buy TC3. I don't see Auran throwing in the towel with that 90% complete. The feature and bugfix list look quite promising, and the route will almost certainly be superb (same team as Hawes Junction from TRS06).

Paul

paul502
January 28th, 2008, 03:08 AM
Yes trainz does have a future , Buy TC3 , keep downloading, creating and using trainz. tell people how much fun trainz is. Trainz is here to stay...

Euphod
January 28th, 2008, 05:43 AM
It's just I don't want the DLS to get shut down and loose all that content forever! Then I need to save all my routes and assets on CDs. -Chris

I wouldn't want all that content to be "loose" either......

Chris, you should be saving all your routes and assets on CD anyway. If you don't want to use Cd's, then use another storage media. If you want insurance that your content will remain available to the community, then upload it somewhere else, like your own web space, or the TPR Download Depot.

Yes, Auran might fold up like a cheap card table whether we buy their new releases or not! The DLS may dissolve like an Alka Seltzer, but the content will remain, and could remain available if people take steps now.

Somehow your post strikes me as hysteria, you've been around long enough to not be going "Chicken Little" on us now! C'mon man, get a hold of yourself!

Ed

johnwhelan
January 28th, 2008, 08:18 AM
I know that Auran shutting down is too bad and they say Trainz will still be going on, but will the DLS be still running and will the current group be making new "TRSs" to compete with Rail Simulator and MSTS 2? -Chris

Worse case scenerio and Auran goes under, you still have the software, there is still a lot of content, we still have TPR and other web sites to upload and download content. No I don't think it is the end of the world for Trainz. MSTS still manages to have a group of people making content, uploading and downloading and work in different forums. Some of their sites are a bit expensive compared to the DLS and have less content but it still works.

Realistically Auran and Trainz will be around for a while. Buy TC3, buy a FCT and it will be around even longer.

Cheerio John

gus1911
January 28th, 2008, 08:39 AM
It's a terrible thing to "loose" one's content. Furr sherr.

Perhaps some of this hysteria is being brought on by Cabin Fever. Those of us living in the cold climes tend to fall into various stages of late winter blues and mild depression. Add to that the thought that Auran might go belly up can bring on fears of spending next winter indoors with no TRS.

Fret not! As long as we keep our CD's of TRS, Trainz will never die. As it exists now, it's the best train sim ever, and from what we've seen coming from the competition, it will remain the best for some time, even if no more changes are made.

If you're concerned about the items on the DLS, I wouldn't be. There already are thousands of items on the DLS that 90% of us will never use. There already are hundreds, perhaps more items on private sites, and more folks are moving their creations to private sites rather than the DLS.

We have a long way to go before we become alarmed. And once we get outside in the warm sun and soak up some of that vitamin D, prospects will look much more pleasant.

Trust me. I'm with the government.:D

CasyJ
January 28th, 2008, 09:23 AM
Solution. Download EVERYTHING from the Download Station via FTP NOW and store it on as many DVD +/-R disks as required. It will probably take up several packs of 50-100 4.5 Gigabyte DVD's to hold the entire content, but at least you will be secure in the knowledge that your content is safe and secure and accessible at all times. Another added benefit of this plan is that we will no longer be plagued by these doom and gloom messages about the ultimate demise of Auran and the loss of a fine corporation.

zatovisualworks
January 28th, 2008, 09:51 AM
... that we will no longer be plagued by these doom and gloom messages about the ultimate demise of Auran and the loss of a fine corporation.

Finally you understood what we oldtimers meant, Casy. Welcome to reality. Some of your early previous freshman messages were somewhat doomy gloomy. ;)

Take care,

Alberte :wave:

CasyJ
January 28th, 2008, 09:55 AM
Finally you understood what we oldtimers meant, Casy. Welcome to reality. Some of your early previous freshman messages were somewhat doomy gloomy. ;)

Take care,

Alberte :wave:

The Freshman has graduated after a final exam in corporate history. :p

zatovisualworks
January 28th, 2008, 10:17 AM
The Freshman has graduated after a final exam in corporate history. :p

:hehe: I'm glad you have. :wave:

newman182
January 28th, 2008, 12:02 PM
since i have not been able to download since i purchased my FCT, could somebody sugest a site to download N.A. content?

PetraEllel
January 28th, 2008, 12:05 PM
I've actually download a lot via the FTP and it won't take up that much room. I have it all down until around March 2007 (excluding the layouts, which i haven't downloaded) and it only comes to 30.8 Gb so probably will only take about 15 dvd's for the entire DLS.

Ian

amigacooke
January 28th, 2008, 12:12 PM
since i have not been able to download since i purchased my FCT, could somebody sugest a site to download N.A. content?

Certainly can

TRAINZ PRO ROUTES (http://www.trainzproroutes.com/downloads/)

(Thought I'd save Ed the bother.)

newman182
January 28th, 2008, 12:20 PM
thanks amigacooke(?). i"ll try it now

StorkNest
January 28th, 2008, 12:30 PM
Only issues I currently have:
1 - Auran's content has licenses like anyone else's so as I understand it if I reskin a PaintShed locomotive for example, I have to upload to DLS and nowhere else. Unless someone knows something else, I think that is no good, new content creators will start somewhere and not all default content stinks and others can be improved but without any change I get cut off from doing anything with any of it. I asked on TPR's forum if Downlaod Depot had some arrangement for this but didn't get an answer.
2 - I was able to format and save to CDs fine on my previous system. I get my new one and suddenly all my previous CDs don't work on it. So I have to figure something else out.:(

ex-railwayman
January 28th, 2008, 01:46 PM
I know that Auran shutting down is too bad and they say Trainz will still be going on, but will the DLS be still running and will the current group be making new "TRSs" to compete with Rail Simulator and MSTS 2? -Chris

I am gobsmacked that YOU would ever write such a thread young Christopher......:hehe: Sheeeeeeeesh man, don't panic....

Auran is NOT going anywhere at present, especially with fabulous route creators such as your goodself, I hope it is still around for many years in the future. So keep the layouts coming and let us download them and together ( along with many thousands of others ) we will keep Auran well afloat and keep the DLS wheels turning.....You are ( hopefully ) one of our many future major TRS contributors Chris, just remember that.....
Who the hell are M$T$ and ( who's the other company ) anyway ???? :p

Cheerz. ex.

SVAndrei
January 28th, 2008, 03:44 PM
Just tried a demo of MSTS. Are you kidding me???:D It's hardly interesting. I think Trainz isn't going anywhere for some time in the future.

chrisracer8903
January 28th, 2008, 03:45 PM
What I ment before is that I have my routes with all that content from the DLS. I would host my routes at RRmods with a CDP with all the content, but I don't want the content creators to be angry! -Chris

CasyJ
January 28th, 2008, 03:46 PM
.
Who the hell are M$T$ and ( who's the other company ) anyway ???? :p

Cheerz. ex.

Sound familiar?

"April 24, 2004 ó As you know, every business segment within Microsoft is responsible for continually evaluating its strategy and investments in all areas of the business to achieve operational efficiencies. At Microsoft Game Studios (MGS), we must continually evaluate our portfolio strategy and investments to ensure we are achieving our most important objectives of creating successful, platform driving titles for Windows gamers. In addition, Microsoft Games Studio must streamline game development operations to be more efficient and critically examine all projects in development to position the business for long-term success and profitability.

Microsoft Game Studios has canceled the Windows-based game "Train Simulator 2.0." The decision to cancel "Train Simulator 2.0" was made some time ago and was based on a long, hard and difficult look at our business objectives and product offerings. We remain focused on the simulations category with successful, platform-driving franchises such as "Microsoft Flight Simulator."

chrisracer8903
January 28th, 2008, 03:46 PM
I am gobsmacked that YOU would ever write such a thread young Christopher......:hehe: Sheeeeeeeesh man, don't panic....

Auran is NOT going anywhere at present, especially with fabulous route creators such as your goodself, I hope it is still around for many years in the future. So keep the layouts coming and let us download them and together ( along with many thousands of others ) we will keep Auran well afloat and keep the DLS wheels turning.....You are ( hopefully ) one of our many future major TRS contributors Chris, just remember that.....
Who the hell are M$T$ and ( who's the other company ) anyway ???? :p

Cheerz. ex.

So the more content I upload at the DLS, actually helps Auran? -Chris

Mouse84
January 28th, 2008, 04:15 PM
Why would someone actually start a thread like this??

meridious
January 28th, 2008, 04:53 PM
If and I say If Auran goes belly up, the loss of the dls would hurt. It would hurt in the short term only though.

As for what would happen if Auran goes away. Several of us at TPR have discussed this at great length. There is so much yet that can be done with Trainz and many don't even realize it. Auran gave us a great sim that has so many opportunities.



The feature and bugfix list look quite promising, and the route will almost certainly be superb (same team as Hawes Junction from TRS06).


The feature and buglist does look enticing but for many of us, the route that comes with it doesn't. As it may very well be a fabulous route, many will have absolutely no interest in the route at all. Kind of like when 04 and 06 got released. Over half the routes that were included were of absolutely no interest to me what-so-ever. Which in turn will make many decide not to purchase it.



So the more content I upload at the DLS, actually helps Auran?


I would have to say at this point in time....NO. Why do I say this ? The DLS is tired, has been through a crash and it just doesn't work like it should. I am going out on a limb here but with Auran down on manpower, they have to spend more time deleting stuff from the database that didn't upload properly. Which in turn takes time away from doing what is most important.......TC3 or whatever.

mtldrm38
January 28th, 2008, 05:09 PM
I hope and dont think Auran is runnin out on us....
Revamping it seems more like.......

But like MSTS when that got dumped over theyre a lotta people
kept MSTS alive and now look they comin out with a new version
after a few years., if I am correct......

So Trainz has a future no matter which way the coin is tossed....

rjhowie1
January 28th, 2008, 05:21 PM
All this doom and gloom stuff appearing on the forums. Maybe someone should create a passenger with a sandwich board declaring "The end is nigh"?? There has been a degree of this depresing stuff and if you were an easily disturbed person it would spoil your enjoyment of something inherently fun hobby. How many threeads do we need on this negativeness?

Euphod
January 28th, 2008, 05:27 PM
Oddball (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000661/): "Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?"
Moriarty (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0533891/): "Crap!"


:D

Ed

johnwhelan
January 28th, 2008, 05:52 PM
So the more content I upload at the DLS, actually helps Auran? -Chris

Basically yes.

Cheerio John

jfarrer
January 28th, 2008, 06:12 PM
No danger of Trainz disappearing anytime in the forseeable future. The only real competition is MSTS which is also a great sim. Forget about Rail Simulator, I've got it and it ain't worth it. One fella asked yesterday on the Rail Simulator forum if Kuju was going to include any interactive industries besides the one industry included in the Sim (container loading and unloading).
This is a direct quote of the reply from the company spokesman:
'Rail Simulator is about driving trains, so at present we do not feature maintaining industries.'
Some simulation!

seeseeme
January 28th, 2008, 06:31 PM
Oddball (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000661/): "Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?"
Moriarty (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0533891/): "Crap!"


:D

Ed

Whats wrong with a German Tiger Tank any way ..... even if you shoot it up th "bum" with paint :hehe:

Great movie Ed, only watched it a few weeks ago (for the 10-15 times)

Craig
:):):)

deeelare
January 28th, 2008, 07:00 PM
There are enough members, with enough content in their libraries, plus the creators, to somehow rebuild a bank of content that would/will be more organized and up to date than the exsisting DLS ! I am actually looking forward to it if something should happen to Trainz, which I doubt will happen soon(tm)?
The transfer of content would/could possibly be another site with a small membership fee ?

My thoughts ---DLR

ex-railwayman
January 28th, 2008, 07:06 PM
So the more content I upload at the DLS, actually helps Auran? -Chris

It's quality not just quantity, that we require Chris, layouts similar to yours filled with the vast new fresh content of trees, buildings, vehicles, flowers, industries, animated textures like waterfalls, etc, that are being uploaded onto the DLS weekly, is what we require to satisfy our needs for a more realistic game.....To me personally, the scenery on a route the texturing and attention to detail, plays a huge part in the pleasure of playing on it. If you and lots of other top creators, from around the world, keep supplying us with routes and wonderful content to put on those routes, we aren't likely to defect.......Trainz will have a future if people like you keep us entertained with your creations...

Cheerz. ex.

Boco
January 28th, 2008, 07:49 PM
Certainly, the way to encourage growth would be to avoid threads like these. Auran's best bet for growth is new customers, and this thread doesn't help.

Someone once said (I believe it was mommy), if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Don't spread hearsay and bad guesses. It's not encouraging. Perhaps it's time that we supported Auran, since they've supported our, yours and my, hobby for years. Without grumbling about us...

Boco

Krupa
January 28th, 2008, 08:10 PM
Taken from Brisbane news-paper The Courier Mail, January 29.

HAMMERED...but a forcibly downsized Auran is still "alive and kicking", the company says.
It may have taken a direct hit, but Brisbane games studio Auran is far from defeated, according to co-founder Graham Edelsten.
The development arm of the company went into voluntary administration in December after its $15 million multi-player online game FURY flopped.

But Mr. Edelsten says the company, while drastically smaller, is still alive and kicking.
"Various articles went around the world that said Aruan's gone and contracts we'd been working on for months collapsed because the publishers thought we couldn't do the work anymore," he says.
"Yes, we had to scale back and we had to put off a lot of people because the volume we expected for FURY wasn't there. But only a section of Auran went - the smaller Auran companies are still functioning and are still developing games."
Now with a staff of 15 - down from 85 - the company is focusing on niche projects and getting a revised version of FURY ready for the US Game Developers Conference in San Francisco in february.
"IT hasn't been easy but we certainly haven't given up on FURY," Mr Edelsten says, adding that player numbers had grown since a free - to - play online model was launched last month.
The studio has also secured a contract for another of its titles, SOLO, and is looking at selling the technology it used to create FURY to Chinese developers.
"The systems you have to build these games can be used again - if not for ourselves then for another publisher," Mr Edelsten says.
Game Developers Association of Australia president Tom Crago says Brisbane's game scene has been unaffected by Auran's setbacks.
"We have to be concious of the fact that this a hit-driven industry," he says. "IT was unfortunate that the studio had to close but the silver lining was that all those people (who lost their jobs) were able to move into other positions within the industry very easily."
Mr. Edelsten says Auran will stick to less ambitious projects, saying until the investment dollars match those of their overseas counterparts it is to risky to take on the giants.
"Independent studios are a dying breed because of the enormous costs involved to fund a game and that's a bit of a pity but that's the nature of the business and why investment is so hard to find,"he says.

Hope This explains a bit more of the puzzle. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Les.

Forest_Runner
January 28th, 2008, 08:56 PM
Certainly, the way to encourage growth would be to avoid threads like these. Auran's best bet for growth is new customers, and this thread doesn't help.

Someone once said (I believe it was mommy), if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Don't spread hearsay and bad guesses. It's not encouraging. Perhaps it's time that we supported Auran, since they've supported our, yours and my, hobby for years. Without grumbling about us...

Boco

That's as sensible and logical as it gets on the subject. The Announcements Forum, thanks to Aidan and Rob, is also more than useful for updates and direction, without the recycling (again!!) the whole speculation, doomslaying and the Moriarity negative waves (thanks Ed - top post :hehe: ).

Magicland
January 28th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Three words: Dark Reign II

chrisracer8903
January 29th, 2008, 01:13 AM
Sorry guys, it's just I've given the other sims a chance, but I still go back to this one. I don't know what it is, but this game just is the best! This game just feels really interactive, creative, and just plain fun. I just want it to last as long as it can! :D -Chris

AJ_Fox
January 29th, 2008, 01:18 AM
Hey Chris

Long time no see. Welcome back. :)

Cheers

AJ

chrisracer8903
January 29th, 2008, 01:20 AM
Hey Chris

Long time no see. Welcome back. :)

Cheers

AJ

Thanks AJ. I never leave this game or community! To show that and rootin' for Auran on keepin' TRS around I have a project I will show in about a week! :) -Chris

leeferr
January 29th, 2008, 01:22 AM
I'm a glass half full instead of a glass half empty kind of guy. Auran has hit a bump in the road, but I wish them all the luck and hope their glass fills soon.

WileeCoyote
January 29th, 2008, 07:51 AM
http://www.killerkrabbe.net/Smilys/images/Schilder_Smilys/Offtropic_ON.gif

To quote ex-railwayman, its quality, not quantity that counts. And yet, with quality there is always a price to be paid. "What do you mean?" You ask, its very simple. The ability to run quality layouts, locomotives, scenery bits etc... on a computer that wasn't ripped out of the NASA mission control rooms in Houston.

My point is there are far too few assets (and content creators) that use LOD, LOD is very useful for those of us who have "average" machines, it doesn't bog down the GPU much, and from a distance, you can't easily tell. Loathe (Ed, if I misspelled that, you can slap me with a trout) KRS I do but one of the few things I like about it is that it uses LOD to its advantage, granted yes the content creators were probably told to do that, but the sheer amount of LOD content is enough that the game looks (reasonably, though I think Trainz looks better) good and runs without too much trouble on my prehistoric machine.

If content creators really started using LOD, and using it so that it has an effect (LOD1 35000 poly, LOD2 32000 poly, LOD3 28000 poly... it just doesn't work), than I think Trainz theoretically would attract more people because they'd sooner or later find that yes, it does run on their machine. Even if it is prehistoric.

http://www.killerkrabbe.net/Smilys/images/Schilder_Smilys/Offtropic_OFF.gif

WileeCoyote:D

zatovisualworks
January 29th, 2008, 09:10 AM
(LOD1 35000 poly, LOD2 32000 poly, LOD3 28000 poly... it just doesn't work),

:hehe: You made my day, Wolfgang, I have a new creation amounting 27999...;)

Seriously, I agree. LODs are intended for really decreasing detail and polys, not pretending we are... ;) following the trends.

But I don't accept fewer than 27999 on mine. :hehe:

Take care,

Alberte :wave:

Spaid
January 29th, 2008, 09:37 PM
Hi,

Just to let you all know Trainz. Is doing Fine AURAN DID NOT CLOSE DOWN. one company under the auran group closed down that is all. The DLS and Trainz will continue to run for many years to come.

All the best and remember don't panic Trainz is doing fine

Aidan Millott - Lead Programmer/Co-Producer Trainz Team Auran

Ferrous
January 29th, 2008, 10:20 PM
Thanks, Aidan. :wave:

sethmcs
January 29th, 2008, 10:34 PM
Aiden,

Your input here is reassuring. Hopefully, at some point, you can announce which direction Trainz is going so that we as a community can start looking forward instead of backwards.:wave:

Euphod
January 29th, 2008, 10:42 PM
This is going to make my next "Dark Prophetic Quatrain" so much more difficult......:'(
Ed

chrisracer8903
January 30th, 2008, 12:20 AM
Hi,

Just to let you all know Trainz. Is doing Fine AURAN DID NOT CLOSE DOWN. one company under the auran group closed down that is all. The DLS and Trainz will continue to run for many years to come.

All the best and remember don't panic Trainz is doing fine

Aidan Millott - Lead Programmer/Co-Producer Trainz Team Auran

Thanks Spaid, glad to hear that! -Chris

psycho_aussie
January 30th, 2008, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by Euphod
This is going to make my next "Dark Prophetic Quatrain" so much more difficult......:'(

Ed, you know Auran loves spoiling your fun...:hehe:

Personally, I see Trainz continuing for quite a few more years, if not for a very long time. If we can all just settle down, and not worry so much about the "rumoured demise" of Auran, then we can all keep enjoying Trainz, and all work towards getting more users hooked on it.

Chris

QR1408
January 30th, 2008, 05:34 AM
Support works two ways or so I've heard. How about a bit of support from Auran by providing a DLS that works all the time. This might make content creators trying to upload routes and having 3 or 4 goes before actually getting anywhere a bit happier. Sure we can upload to TPR or some where else but Trainz users still have to go to the DLS for route content.
Will

Natvander
January 30th, 2008, 06:16 AM
Support works two ways or so I've heard. How about a bit of support from Auran by providing a DLS that works all the time. This might make content creators trying to upload routes and having 3 or 4 goes before actually getting anywhere a bit happier. Sure we can upload to TPR or some where else but Trainz users still have to go to the DLS for route content.
Will

IMHO I think we should be thankful there is a DLS that works at all, given that there is a total of three (3) persons in the Trainz team who are responsible for working on TC3 (with an external team of creators), tech support, approving content for the DLS etc etc. I know how frustrating it can be for us, but I've also seen the other side and know how frustrating it is for them too.

zatovisualworks
January 30th, 2008, 07:01 AM
Hi,

Just to let you all know Trainz. Is doing Fine AURAN DID NOT CLOSE DOWN. one company under the auran group closed down that is all. The DLS and Trainz will continue to run for many years to come.

All the best and remember don't panic Trainz is doing fine

Aidan Millott - Lead Programmer/Co-Producer Trainz Team Auran

Hi Aidan,

Nothing new in the sun! Most of all knew but some others seem to be stubborn at panicking and spreading it. :hehe: Are they hired by the competitors who are selling poorly? :hehe:

Anyway, thank you for this reassurement!

Alberte :wave:

mckinnell
January 30th, 2008, 07:40 AM
Hello to ALL,

As a contributer to the DLS and having a good friend who helped me out site wise; Deltic03, the maker of Rugby bus and later commercials, for my models, also some art work as well, I for one will CERTAINLY keep creating models of what ever and which ever I can so long as health and the world permit.

Lets face it, this is no real supprise as, its not the trainz software that has caused this alone, O NO!!!!, so one realy ort not push all the woe`s of Auran miss adventures on to the Trainz persay; better, Trainz is one of those few software products that, over many years now, and, very good partonage by a world wide interest, has, now developed its own being, it is, and, with the countless groups and clubs etc etc etc, all around the world, would be VERY VERY UNLIKELY to see this entity called TRAINZ, just go under and say good bye!!, certainly NOT!!!!!!

For my part, I stay, and will always do my models with TRS2004, the realy last stable and cost and user effective simm in their range, (personel view but based on good soundings in modeling circles and users alike!); and based as I say on the latter; Trainz does have its own momentum and a vast following, very much akin to MS CFS 2, their version 3 came and just bombed, why?, because most of what purchasers wanted and could do plus add on`s, was easier and more stable in the CFS2 version, same hold good and solid with Trainz, their TRS 2004with SPs used.

A lot will purchase 2006, !!!!!!!!!!!! mmmmmmmmmmm, and other will :hehe: :hehe: buy TC, most will purchase and recommend the more stable TRS2004 and as such, Trainz will be here for far to many years to worry about, it realy matters nought, if the latest two versions are perchased or not, most will go for TRS04, FACT, why?,because you can purchase it at so many outlets and at very good prices as well; to be brutaly honest, if TRS2004 had stayed as the last version for a more tenable time span and not brushed away so childishly so as to make a new version, some, not all, but, most share the view that a lot of this could of been slowed or stoped, now, we will never know, but rest assured, TRS2004, will always remain NUMBER ONE and will be the life boat for this side of their buisness, much within these forum and others show well the case to be proven such.

LOOK!,.........all things go the way of ALL flesh as the saying goes, but, I realy do not think there is any worry for any of us for quite some time, if their was, I would not produce any more models and other as well, but we will and we are, why, as stated, IT HAS ITS OWN LIFE FORCE, and thats is some thing you ain`t EVERY going to kill!!!!!!!!!!!!


Regards to one and all,


Tom.:wave: :D :cool:

PS.as soon as I get over this @?&*£%^% chest infection, boy have I got a back log of wants comms and other idears, now.where`s the ice pack:hehe: :hehe: :hehe: .............................................

Smileyman
January 30th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Hopefully, at some point, you can announce which direction Trainz is going so that we as a community can start looking forward instead of backwards.:wave:
If we can get past this "Trainz Classics" era, and into a new version of Trainz, then I'll be very interested, but with Auran "stick(ing) to less ambitious projects, until the investment dollars match those of their overseas counterparts", I think Trainz Classics is all we are going to get for some time.

For now I'll make do with TRS2004 and KRS (why would you have to choose between them?), but I'll keep an occasional eye on these forums just in case the unlikely happens.

Smiley.

deeelare
January 30th, 2008, 02:57 PM
Smiley,

You are quite correct in my opinion !
TC is not going to bring Auran back to life .
They must 'bite the bullet', and come up with an SP to bring TRS back to life, create a TRS2009, or admit they are out of the Trainz Sim competition.
It will be an investment gamble, but that is what every company has to do, either fold or put in one last, wholehearted attempt at being a competitor, the worst scenario is they fall flat on their behinds !
But they already have most of the work done, Surveyor and the DLS !

My thoughts ---DLR

Paulsw2
January 30th, 2008, 06:17 PM
hmm, I want to see what TC3 looks like first before giving up on TRS (especially as the competition doesn't seem terribly attractive at this point in time if you like building routes). :o

deeelare
January 30th, 2008, 07:13 PM
Paulsw2,

I can almost assure you, it will be a bit better than TC2, and a little bit less than TC4, TC5, etc. !

IMHO, Auran can not continue in this direction, ( publishing dribbles of software, rather than an updated Sim ) ? If they do not 'step up to the plate', they will most certainly lose their position as a leader in the Rail Sim competition !

Just my thoughts ---DLR

spiffy101
January 30th, 2008, 09:03 PM
My opinion is if Auran's problems keep up, I'm leaving. They're heading towards a dead end in my opinion unless they clean up their act. Sorry Auran. I'm speaking what I belive. The program is great, but the technical support sucks.

Alan_Yeomans
January 30th, 2008, 09:03 PM
If and I say If Auran goes belly up, the loss of the dls would hurt. It would hurt in the short term only though.

As for what would happen if Auran goes away. Several of us at TPR have discussed this at great length. There is so much yet that can be done with Trainz and many don't even realize it. Auran gave us a great sim that has so many opportunities.

The DLS is tired, has been through a crash and it just doesn't work like it should. I am going out on a limb here but with Auran down on manpower, they have to spend more time deleting stuff from the database that didn't upload properly. Which in turn takes time away from doing what is most important.......TC3 or whatever.

Interesting thread. Meridious sums up my thoughts exactly.

Trainz has been around for nearly 7 years, and the community will be around long after Auran have gone.

If the worst was to happen, I would head over to TPR and locate their 'donate now' button...

I only hope Auran can give us a 'Standard', so we can all be on the same ver, before they go.

Alan

leeferr
January 30th, 2008, 09:40 PM
Doomsday talk is so disheartening. I usually don't read these doom and gloom threads, but I've been following this one a little. We can pontificate all we want, but I'm sticking with Auran as long as they stick with us. No matter what happens, Trainz will be around for a long time, that is unless everyone throws away their disks, uninstalls and stops making content. I have no intention of doing any of these.

QR1408
January 30th, 2008, 10:16 PM
I don't think people trying to download the entire DLS for whatever reasons helps Auran or the ordinary user. Do any of us enjoy getting server full messages from the DLS. Or after downloading one small item of perhaps 300 kb you get a message can't connect to download page. It isn't the ordinary user's fault that Auran can only employ 3 people. Most people would probably be like me, download some rolling stock, and bits to make route fairly normal usage. Not downloading everything we can get our hands on. Even to download the occasional few pieces is a headache. I suggest only downloading what you need not some sort of land grab.

gtasa
January 30th, 2008, 10:39 PM
wait a minute auran is shuting down:(

AJ_Fox
January 30th, 2008, 10:59 PM
No.

Cheers

AJ

Mouse84
January 30th, 2008, 11:02 PM
One thing to remember guys, if they update the engine that runs the game too much, most of the content will not be interchangeable between versions as it is now.

Magicland
January 30th, 2008, 11:45 PM
One thing to remember guys, if they update the engine that runs the game too much, most of the content will not be interchangeable between versions as it is now.

Who cares, there'll be newer and better content. There was some very nice pre-SP3 content (and still is on the DLS) that doesn't work with UTC or TRS2004, but I wouldn't want to go back to setting up consists outside of trainz and then hoping they'll fit at the trackmark I've selected in order to use them. A mesh is a mesh is a mesh. All the other bits and pieces such as attachment points and config files can be added, deleted and edited as needed for whatever features a new version requires. How difficult is it to put a bounding box object into a mesh to support real-world collision detection, and using REAL shadows cast from objects is tons easier than making shadow meshes. The wheels of progress will roll on, provided the engine does as well.

Euphod
January 31st, 2008, 12:09 AM
I only hope Auran can give us a 'Standard', so we can all be on the same ver, before they go. Alan

That would be sweet....Trainz Classics 2005? Kind of a middle ground?
Ed

Rob
January 31st, 2008, 12:57 AM
LOL It's worth visiting this forum just to see your latest, Ed. :hehe:

TC2005 sounds great, but I am not sure the publishers would go for it. :wave:

All silliness aside though, and like Aidan said, a big chunk of Auran has finished, but the small chunk that owns Trainz is doing fine, is recovering quickly from the upheavels and has no plans to leave the genre any time soon.

I am quite certain that at very least there'll be one popularly accepted common ground to come. It was always our intention with TC that there would be in the end, just like it was always our intention to improve the feasibility of the product for the investors.

Glad to see the subject is so close to the heart of so many of you, but I assure you that your fears are at this stage quite unfounded.

Cheers and have fun,

~R~

AnthonyGlamour
January 31st, 2008, 05:39 PM
One thing to remember guys, if they update the engine that runs the game too much, most of the content will not be interchangeable between versions as it is now.

Well most of it isn't interchangeable anymore is it? I'm struggling to understand why Auran have even bothered to include CMP on the Trainz Classics disc. Everything in download station has a missing KUID that renders it useless. It's almost like they've made downloading content to 'Classics' impossible on purpose so they can sell us expansion packs later. (Like Settle & Carlisle for example). I'm very annoyed that I've forked out thirty quid for a less than a handful of content. Even Rail Simulator came with more than that!

Smileyman
January 31st, 2008, 07:10 PM
I'm struggling to understand why Auran have even bothered to include CMP on the Trainz Classics disc.
CMP is the reason that I no longer use TRS2006, and will be the reason I won't be throwing caution to the wind and buying TC3.
I'm not a fan of the TC concept, but I would be tempted to buy TC3 if CMP was no longer part of the deal.

For those who don't know, I beta tested both TRS2004 and TRS2006, and CMP behaved itself very well for me and most of the beta team during TRS2006 testing, with a small percentage having nothing but trouble.
This strange "feature" of CMP has also shown itself to the community since it was released, with most people having no trouble with it, and a small percentage of the community having constant trouble.
Even after release, my CMP worked flawlessly for many months, and then one day it decided to play up, and got so bad that I couldn't guarantee that I would be able to use TRS2006 without problems.

The reason I bring this up is to hopefully stop those with no CMP problems from saying so, because one day it might not be so. :D

Despite any assurances that CMP in TC1,2 and 3 is fixed and more stable, I cannot bring myself to waste much of my time with it.

I strongly believe that TRS2006 is a far better product than TRS2004, and I have no reason to believe that the TC series hasn't improved it again in some ways. After all, I've witnessed pretty much each version being improved by Auran as the years have gone on.

For me, CMP should have just installed and listed all content on your machine, and that's it.
I run a lot of database type programs made by both professionals and open source hobbyists (like myself), and I've never come across a database program that's as unstable as CMP.

If it sounds like I've gone off-topic a bit (which has been known in the past :wave: ) then I disagree. If Trainz has a future then these are important issues that need to be addressed.
CMP finally stopped me using a program that I loved testing and loved using, and forced me to go back to an earlier version.

Why not get Bloodnok to knock up a "lite" version of CMP from scratch, with no Internet capabilities, no editing, and just the ability to install, uninstall and list assets.
Ship both CMP and CMP Lite with TRS so people can choose for themselves, and make TRS more forgiving with asset errors, like earlier versions.

Do that, and Auran have got my money for any future versions of Trainz they release.

Unfortunately, it won't happen. :(


I'm going to shut up now.

For now.

Smiley.

deeelare
January 31st, 2008, 07:31 PM
Smiley,

With the utmost of respect :
Did anyone at the time of Beta testing try to discipher why some of the testers could not use CMP without problems ?
OS, Internet connection, etc. ?
It still appears to me that the solution to CMP is a basically simple one, but one that is going to be very difficult to discover.
I like your idea that a patch for TRS06 be written and released that allows the user to disable CMP if the user wishes, but as you have stated, "Unfortunately it won't happen" !
And I suppose there are other things in Auran's great plans of things to be, that are more important to them than what members are begging for ?

---,dave

Sourdough
January 31st, 2008, 07:46 PM
......

The reason I bring this up is to hopefully stop those with no CMP problems from saying so, because one day it might not be so. :D....



Smiley.

Only if those who do have problems quit saying so.....deal? :cool:

Smileyman
January 31st, 2008, 07:57 PM
Did anyone at the time of Beta testing try to discipher why some of the testers could not use CMP without problems ?
Dave, without breaking my old NDA, you can be sure that everything was tried with all combinations of systems.
I remember personally trying to duplicate a problem someone was having for hours on end, without success.
I now suffer that exact problem every time I use TRS2006 (or did).
Neither the Beta testers or Auran can be blamed for CMPs problems in my opinion.

It just backs up my original statement that CMP tries to do too many things, and the more complicated a program is, the more elusive these problems are to track down.

I remember years ago chatting with someone on here (via Email) about the old Content Manager that came with the earlier versions of Trainz, and laughing at it, saying how boring and useless it was.
What I wouldn't give for a simple program like that now. :D

Smiley.

Smileyman
January 31st, 2008, 07:58 PM
deal? :cool:
'fraid not.

narrowgauge
January 31st, 2008, 08:09 PM
This would give me a real reason to accept TRS2005 and future iterations, but not while the dead hand of CMP hovers at the portal, and the devil of CCP waits inside.


Why not get Bloodnok to knock up a "lite" version of CMP from scratch, with no Internet capabilities, no editing, and just the ability to install, uninstall and list assets.
Ship both CMP and CMP Lite with TRS so people can choose for themselves, and make TRS more forgiving with asset errors, like earlier versions.


Can this be done?

The silly thing is that I will continue to buy all new versions, even though I have no intention of using them

Cheers

Narrowgauge

Sourdough
January 31st, 2008, 08:19 PM
'fraid not.
no sense in getting your hopes up, then....:cool:

big_b
January 31st, 2008, 09:23 PM
The only use I have for CMP is to commit content & backup my own routes.It's too slow even on my broadband connection to view & download content when using thumbnail view it takes forever to load.

I prefer to use Downloader Pro it's so much quicker & by downloading to a new folder each month ( jan08 feb08 ) etc it creates my content backup as i download separate from the Trainz Folder.

If CMP worked in a similar way where you could select the download folder & then import & commit it would be an improvement.

Dave

Boco
January 31st, 2008, 09:57 PM
When I first received TRS06, I too had many, many problems with what I thought, was CMP. However as it turns out, if you fix the content with CMP, it works. Sure, it's slow and tedious but it's not difficult. Once you fix the content and discard the assets that truly don't work, you'll find that CMP and TRS work quite well.

I rarely have crashes or lockups anymore.

Have fun!


Boco

Euphod
January 31st, 2008, 10:58 PM
It appears that CMP is the "Boogieman" that will scare otherwise intelligent users from buying future versions of Trainz. Perhaps Auran should take note, and offer CMP separately from the next version of Trainz. I know it would make the forums alot more interesting....think of the hilarity that will ensue!

Fix the faulty content, then use it in whatever version Trainz you choose, and you will be pleased.

Ed

ldowns
January 31st, 2008, 11:02 PM
When I first received TRS06, I too had many, many problems with what I thought, was CMP. However as it turns out, if you fix the content with CMP, it works. Sure, it's slow and tedious but it's not difficult. Once you fix the content and discard the assets that truly don't work, you'll find that CMP and TRS work quite well.

I rarely have crashes or lockups anymore.

Have fun!


Boco

This is the price we pay for having an open resource like the DLS that anyone can contribute to. IMHO it's well worth the extra trouble to weed out or fix the problem cases in return for an absolutely incredible variety of assets, virtually free for the taking. The alternative is a stripped-down collection of assets a la Trainz Classics, which may be fine for the built-in layouts included, but is very limited in variety as a result.

Unfortunately the priorities of serious layout builders and Auran's don't exactly mesh here--Auran would no doubt much prefer a smaller, reliable collection in order to minimize technical support and avoid discouraging new purchasers from continuing. So there will always be a need for tact and diplomacy on both sides of the issue.

--Lamont

narrowgauge
January 31st, 2008, 11:59 PM
Yes I have an opinion.... and it hasn't changed since I first saw the beast while it was still in beta.

In my opinion.

If Windows gave the same percentage of its users problems similar to the ones we experience, the whole world would be up in arms. I strongly believe there are a large numbers of users out there in the world, who try Trainz and give up in disgust. I know I would have done if I had been presented with this type of problem, life is too short for CMP aggravation

Here it appears that we must always blame the user or the content, there seems to be a mindset that if CMP freezes, it is not a program problem.

If the program had been properly designed and coded to begin with, correctly implemented error handling would be taking care of the problems of both content and user. When CMP falls into an apparently incommunicable stupor it is very poor error handling, and lousy programming.

In my opinion....

Cheers (I think, but then that is only my opinion):wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

Narrowgauge

AJ_Fox
February 1st, 2008, 12:11 AM
But did you have an opinion? :)

Cheers

AJ

Rob
February 1st, 2008, 12:44 AM
I'm not a fan of the TC concept

I am a bigger fan of that concept than the no future of Trainz, no forums, no DLS concept.

TC was the way necessary to convince our investors that we can fund things like better steam representation. I have mentioned the situation we were faced with many times here. Unfortunately, it couldn't have gone on like it did in the past; and to continue we had to get used to the idea of more profitable methods.

Ship both CMP and CMP Lite with TRS so people can choose for themselves, and make TRS more forgiving with asset errors, like earlier versions.

I'm not entirely sure if it's that simple, but it is a sound idea that I have heard before and i will discuss it with James for you, Brian. I'd certainly be extremely cautious however about encouraging the use of erroneous content.

If Windows gave the same percentage of its users problems similar to the ones we experience, the whole world would be up in arms.

I thought it did and we were? :hehe:

If the program had been properly designed and coded to begin with

Unfortunately while the design had great intentions and offers a lot of flexibility, it certainly isn't flawless or intuitive to use. I am not sure, Peter whether you are qualified to comment on the coding side of it, but I know the very qualified people that worked on it and that they did the best they could with the design they had.

It appears that CMP is the "Boogieman" that will scare otherwise intelligent users from buying future versions of Trainz. Perhaps Auran should take note, and offer CMP separately from the next version of Trainz.

Sad but true apparently.

TAD is here to stay and the only effective way available to edit it is through CMP. It locks up sometimes on some machines (and I use it on a lot of machines). The whole office has heard me swearing at it many a time (mind you it's heard me swearing at a great many other applications too).

It took me a while to come over to the idea of it, but if you can sort out your setup issues, it offers a great deal of what many of our members really wanted out of open architecture. It's the most powerful content management tool Trainz has ever had, and with it's help I have solved many a content problem both for leisure and at work.

So I strongly recommend to CMP holdouts that they leave the comfort zone for a short transitional period and adequately experience the joy of CMP and see if you look back.

Cheers!

~R~

Rob
February 1st, 2008, 12:59 AM
Here's a quick summary of some (not recommended) last resorts I sometimes use when experiencing difficulty...

If CMP fails to start I ctrl+alt+del to see if there is another instance of ContentManager running amongst the processes and end it if there is.

If it seems to have forgotten my login or think I have no FCT etc I check that my C:/Progra~/Auran/TC/Settings folder hasn't any content set to read-only. Then I ensure that the login details are entered.

If it still can't connect I make sure there's no firewall dramas etc.

If it even still can't connect I sometimes choose "Use Internet Explorer Settings" in the CMP settings internet tab which sometimes helps.

If it seems to crash frequently then usually I am on a machine that is chocka block full of DLS content. Sometimes it helps in those situations to go to C:/Progra~/Auran/TRS2006/ and delete the assets.tdx and cache folder; because occasionally the database becomes corrupted for unknown reasons. You need to run TRS2006 after deleting those things before launching CMP again; and it may take a long time to start TRS2006 that first time after deleting the database.

For anyone who missed my previous post, these are things I have noted about running CMP on a wide variety of machines and configurations.

Hope this helps someone.

~R~

Alex23
February 1st, 2008, 01:06 AM
Hi Rob and everyone,

Before I take my leave of you all for the time being, I would like to heartily agree with Rob's comments.

I feel that from what I see, the future for Trainz is bright.

On the subject of Cmp. I have 418 items on the dls under my username and that of Victrainz. Every single item has been edited and revised using CMP, With one exception the 2006 Silver Jubilee A4 done with CCP.

I think that speeks for itself. And granted there are some issues, but they are bearable.

All the best Guy's. I Will be fronting up for TC3, and good luck to the Crew with it.

Cheer's, --- for now.

Alex --- aka --- Alex23:wave:

narrowgauge
February 1st, 2008, 01:35 AM
Rob


Unfortunately while the design had great intentions and offers a lot of flexibility, it certainly isn't flawless or intuitive to use.

Poor implementation, a good design does not survive poor implementation and I agree completely with your comment.



I am not sure, Peter whether you are qualified to comment on the coding side of it, but I know the very qualified people that worked on it and that they did the best they could with the design they had.


Now you seem to reverse your thinking and say it was a poor design and the programmers could not do much with it.

Rob, we are all qualified to comment on the programs we use just as you probably complain about the car you drive but I doubt that you have much experince in car design. We live and work with them every day. We see the interface and expect that the 'works' will not fall in a heap if in our comparative ignorance we make a mistake. If the 'works' does not work properly then whose problem was that? Not ours, our ineptitude should have been taken care of by the programmer, that is the nuts an bolts of the whole thing.

I have spent several years programming for industrial database applications and I feel qualified enough from that experience to know that if something goes wrong it is fair to blame the programmer, after all he/she was the one that should have anticipated the havoc and losses an untrained person or incorrect data can cause.

CMP was rushed out and, in my opinion, too many unproven things were attempted.


If CMP fails to start I ctrl+alt+del to see if there is another instance of ContentManager running amongst the processes and end it if there is.


That would be nice if I could get ctrl-alt-delete to work. CMP freezes and it is 'hello little reboot button' every time. Perhaps it hasn't frozen and is just thinking, How do I know, there is no progress bar or litle spinner to tell me it is still alive. What do I do for half a day, sit and wait?

AJ, All in my opinion of course.:hehe:

Cheers

Peter

john259
February 1st, 2008, 02:11 AM
Leaving aside the contentious issue of possible bugs, I feel that a lot of problems users have with CMP are due to it being designed around an abstract computer database concept which very few people can understand, whereas the asset management system in TRS2004 is based on physical folders and files for each asset which most people can understand and therefore feel confident using. Just my 2c worth.

John

SVAndrei
February 1st, 2008, 02:19 AM
Leaving aside the contentious issue of possible bugs, I feel that a lot of problems users have with CMP are due to it being designed around an abstract computer database concept which very few people can understand, whereas the asset management system in TRS2004 is based on physical folders and files for each asset which most people can understand and therefore feel confident using. Just my 2c worth.

John

I agree. But once you manage to grasp the concept, CMP becomes quite easy to understand & use.

sethmcs
February 1st, 2008, 02:51 AM
I agree. But once you manage to grasp the concept, CMP becomes quite easy to understand & use.


I think I grasp the concept of the CMP and like Narrowgauge stick with TRS2004.:hehe:

AnthonyGlamour
February 1st, 2008, 03:14 AM
CMP is the reason that I no longer use TRS2006, and will be the reason I won't be throwing caution to the wind and buying TC3.
I'm not a fan of the TC concept, but I would be tempted to buy TC3 if CMP was no longer part of the deal.



Actually, I've got no problems with CMP on TRS2006. I can't speak for others but on my system it's sometimes a bit iffy (FCT doesn't work, it doesn't recognise my serial number, you have to download the whole thing before it tells you there's missing assets etc etc) though mostly it's fine. The problem with it for me is that it doesn't show when assets are 'industry' (usable stations for example). I don't like Download Station, I never have but that's just my preference.
My point was that they've obviously gone to town with 'Classics', the graphics are improved, it all looks at lot smoother (so much so in fact, my pc sometimes throws it's toys out of the pram with the dreaded 'Fatal Exception') & it seems to me they've tried to make a totally new & improved product. Which is admirable. But if the flip side of that is that some old content doesn't work, they should have made sure that there was enough new content to suffice. And they haven't.

TC should be removed from the Trainz franchise entirely, launched as a totally new product with no backwards compatability & a totally new set of stuff.

TRS2006 is for World Builders, the best rail simulator of them all & it's going to remain so for some time until Auran provide LOTS of new content.

Just off topic a second, when I'm playing TRS2006 I always get the 'Fatal Exception' screen but only when I close the program down. If Auran could bring out a product that didn't have 'Fatal Exception's' all the time, all might be forgiven.

big_b
February 1st, 2008, 04:15 AM
I have rarely have 2 instances of CMP running stopping it from loading but if it does most times it's the launcher that is hanging & has caused the problem.Kill the launcher & CMP usually boot up straight away.
CMP will lock up everything even task manager.Rather than reboot I now open Task Manager before launching then if it does I have access to shut down whatever without rebooting.

Dave

AussieNightcrawler
February 1st, 2008, 04:29 AM
I like Rob have CMP running on multiple system and have no real 'major' problems with it, as for 'minor' problems, there really is only 2 issues:

A) Locking up, this appears to happen when for some reason the database has become corrupted, usually by deleting the assets.tdx where TRS06/TC is installed and the assets.bku in the cache folder (if its there) fixes the problem. Then start TRS2006 or TC and let it rebuild the database, reminds me of TRS2004 when it had to build the .chump file(s) after you install a new piece of content, so really nothing new, no major problem.

B) Crashing, the only times I have CMP crash is when it can't connect to the DLS to update and Planet Auran to confirm username and password. This has become more often lately due to the circumstances around Auran, but again no major problem.

Other then that, yes we all have the "Updating the database.... Please wait..." message box that seems to never go away, for some reason CMP has forgotten to close it, I do get this every now and then but nothing that pressing the ESC key will not fix. As I have the "Show icon in notification area when connected" option selected in the properties of my network connection I can see the network activity, if nothing has happened for like 10 seconds, I just move the message box out of the way and use CMP as needed. If nothing has happened for 30 seconds then I know CMP has forgotten to close the message so I press ESC and just continue to use CMP as normal.

For what it is, CMP is a great tool and as a small creator of content for Trainz, I don't get much done I know but I find it does the job well, the small problems that I have are very easily fixed.

Rob
February 1st, 2008, 05:59 AM
Now you seem to reverse your thinking and say it was a poor design and the programmers could not do much with it.

Not at all. The design was well intentioned but poorly devised is what I was trying to say.

Rob, we are all qualified to comment on the programs we use just as you probably complain about the car you drive but I doubt that you have much experince in car design.

I disagree that we are all qualified to comment on the competence of the programmers and their coding.

While I am a more than competent mechanic certainly I don't feel qualified to contest the decisions of the manufacturers. Especially considering I always buy from the magnificent Ford Motor Co. :hehe:

Being an expert player of a game doesn't make me an expert in the circumstances of it's developement.

In this case however, I am an expert in the circumstances of it's developement and I know what I am talking about.

The CMP design was placed in the hands of people with little experience in game design. Yes it was ambitious, and we have since learned not to be so ambitious. Damned if we do. Damned if we don't wouldn't you say?

I have spent several years programming for industrial database applications and I feel qualified enough from that experience to know that if something goes wrong it is fair to blame the programmer.

That is quite at odds with what I have learned in my mere decade of experience in the game industry.

That would be nice if I could get ctrl-alt-delete to work.

So you are also experiencing problems with Windows, do you pursue improvement similarly on the Microsoft Windows forums?

Cheers,

~R~

Euphod
February 1st, 2008, 06:01 AM
I'd like to know who among us has fixed all our content (to the point where it does not show an error or missing dependency in CMP), and then still has terrible problems with CMP?

I remember when 2006 was first installed on my PC, I remember the trouble I had with CMP hanging and crashing. I didn't like it at first either. The only reason I stayed with 2006 is because 2004 ran so badly for me, it wasn't an option to return to it.

Since I decided 2006 ran better for me (once I got past CMP), I then made the commitment to repair to 10Gb's or so of content I had brought over. Since I completed that task CMP has not given me the smallest bit of trouble. I use it daily, and abuse it daily too! I'm constantly opening folders and files, copying, editing, committing, quick driving, showing in Railyard, etc..........I would not go back to TO and 2004.

That's been my experience folks, I'm curious how many others have fixed their content. It doesn't give anyone "bragging rights", but if the major stumbling block to advancing Trainz is the willingness to repair faulty content, then I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope. If a person doesn't want to work on this hobby, I don't see how they are ever going to move beyond the features and frame rate of 2004.

It is discouraging to think that the community made these problems for it's self. I took umbrage too when Auran first laid the blame of faulty content at the creator's feet, but it seems true enough. Okay, maybe the CCG's weren't fast in coming or all inclusive when they arrived, we can blame each other for the rest of time and not move on. I know I made some mistakes in my content, heck, I just ignored some things I knew were wrong, it didn't matter because 2004 would load it anyway! When you repair about 7Gb's of content though, you see you aren't the only creator that released faulty content! 70% of the content I had downloaded since SP3 had errors. I was able to fix it all in a couple months, and I'm an idiot!(Ask anyone.....)

So, yes, the majority of content is faulty. Clean it up and it works better. If you like, you can stay with 2004, and avoid repairing anything, but don't complain about the new features you'll never see, or the lower frame rates. CMP ain't perfect, but neither is it the horrible monster some believe it is.

I would like to see Trainz and CMP be released as separate programs. I'm willing to wait for code lock, because I really don't want to transfer all my content from version to version. 2006 runs fine, for now. That's not to say Trainz Classics 13 won't lure me with some feature, but for now I am satisfied.

Sorry for the ramble folks, I guess I just mean to say that the content and CMP seem to be the stumbling blocks to advancement. Perhaps error checking could be adjustable from none to full in future versions, that way those that bridle at repairing content can go blissfully along, and those that want performance can repair to their heart's content! Somehow CMP has to be separated from Trainz, in order for all of us to get on the same page.

Ed

narrowgauge
February 1st, 2008, 06:25 AM
Rob

We could be embroiled in a continuing argument, that was not my intent.

Two quotes and comments and I will shut up.


I have spent several years programming for industrial database applications and I feel qualified enough from that experience to know that if something goes wrong it is fair to blame the programmer.

That is quite at odds with what I have learned in my mere decade of experience in the game industry.


I thought we were discussing a database, I was. Isn't that what CMP is? Trainz is the game.


That would be nice if I could get ctrl-alt-delete to work.

So you are also experiencing problems with Windows, do you pursue improvement similarly on the Microsoft Windows forums?


I only get that problem when CMP has turned its toes up. Maybe Windows can't cope with CMP but I would not judge it to be a Windows problem.

'Nuff said

Cheers

Narrowgauge.

Zwabberaar
February 1st, 2008, 06:42 AM
I have two sets of experiences with TRS06.

The first was is with a Dutch version of the simulator ( no SP1 )

It was my first encounter with both Trainz and CMP and after days of downloading GB's of content it came to a point where it started to crash more often then that it ran properly.

I do remember that it had hundreds of faulty content ( CMP listed it as faulty ). I ignored them for the simple reason I didn't know how to fix them. When I learned how to fix them I began the tedious job but there were just sooo many that I gave up eventually.

When it became clear that the Dutch TRS06 version would never get its SP1 I decided to throw in the towel and quit.

Last summer ( northern hemisphere ) I found out that the German community was finally rewarded with a SP1 version ( to be released as TRS07 ).

When I received my copy I made the pledge to do things differently. This time I controlled the assets I downloaded and made sure that most if not all would be "fixed". I kept the discipline and have only 6 faulty items installed which are beyond repair but needed for one of my favourite routes.

Contrary to my experience with TRS06 this time I hardly ever have a problem with the simulator and or CMP. I do abuse it regularly because I change a lot of configs to re-organize the objects. I open and close many items a day via CCP or via explorer.

I am a very happy CMP user, and although its not a perfect program, it suits my needs. I am convinced that fixing faulty items has a big influence on the program's performance.

zatovisualworks
February 1st, 2008, 07:23 AM
I am convinced that fixing faulty items has a big influence on the program's performance.

;) If not performance, it has an effect on placing, sorting and finding assets on the right 'kind'.

:hehe: Some days ago I had to correct an asset (I wouldn't say the creator's name even if being urged by a judge:hehe:) which reads on its config.txt:


kind "USA":hehe: Yes, I know that the USA are such a kind of great country but as trainzy as everyone else. ;) Yet that's an idea; next time I will type on my config's:


kind "Alberte's humble stuff" :hehe:

Alberte :wave:

johnwhelan
February 1st, 2008, 08:26 AM
Here's a quick summary of some (not recommended) last resorts I sometimes use when experiencing difficulty...

If CMP fails to start I ctrl+alt+del to see if there is another instance of ContentManager running amongst the processes and end it if there is.

If it seems to have forgotten my login or think I have no FCT etc I check that my C:/Progra~/Auran/TC/Settings folder hasn't any content set to read-only. Then I ensure that the login details are entered.

If it still can't connect I make sure there's no firewall dramas etc.

If it even still can't connect I sometimes choose "Use Internet Explorer Settings" in the CMP settings internet tab which sometimes helps.

If it seems to crash frequently then usually I am on a machine that is chocka block full of DLS content. Sometimes it helps in those situations to go to C:/Progra~/Auran/TRS2006/ and delete the assets.tdx and cache folder; because occasionally the database becomes corrupted for unknown reasons. You need to run TRS2006 after deleting those things before launching CMP again; and it may take a long time to start TRS2006 that first time after deleting the database.

For anyone who missed my previous post, these are things I have noted about running CMP on a wide variety of machines and configurations.

Hope this helps someone.

~R~

Could these comments be placed in a sticky or faq some where easy to find. I know of two people currently unable to use TC or TRS2006 because of startup problems with TC or TRS2006.

My personal view is I much prefer CMP but it does need well documented trouble shooting guide to reduce the frustration factor in less knowledgeably users.

Thanks John

timberdv
February 1st, 2008, 10:00 AM
I have been around for all the versions of Trainz.


I have read many of the problems that a lot of people have.


I think the biggest problem is that people expect the program to do anything you ask it to do or try to make it do.


You read of so many people trying to make all that old content work with Trainz Classics.


Well you do all those crazy conversions and repairs and other transfers of content and wow! Surprise Surprise, it all doesn't work.


And who's fault is this? Look in the mirror for a clue.


Remember, the game has limits. They ( Auran ) told you that a lot of the old stuff wasn't going to work.


But you knew better. Nobody is going to tell you how to play with your toys.


Quit you belly aching. Most problems are self inflicted.


Don't try to blame someone else. If you'll just use it the way it was intended, then there would be much less frustration.


This game is far from perfect, but it's the best thing going, for now.....

Barry
February 1st, 2008, 10:33 AM
Only academic as trainz and I have now finally parted company. but for the record, on my computer. new 8600gts.

CMP and VISTA do NOT work with Classics (on new computer).
I know about administrator right, close the update, esc, etc.
Locks trainz and computer and control, alt, del, required.
Problem is I only need Surveyor as use ftp and on dial up anyway (with which I am quite happy for my requirements).

So Surveyor became unusable as locks as soon as trying to commit, etc. Only bought for Surveyor.

Perhaps drivers need updating but no intention of changing them as that can create problems with other programs.

So cmp for me is a problem and unusable.
trs2004 and SEPERATE content manager fine.
Routes in classics ran fine.

But all academic as my on/off association with trainz has ended, but posted for the record (full stop).

barry

:)

p.s quote "Quit you belly aching. Most problems are self inflicted. "

Not the best way to encourage new purchasers perhaps, who are thr most important factor for sales and what really counts, not the posts from a few on these forums.

Padster
February 1st, 2008, 10:57 AM
Barry, you say that your association with Trainz has ended, yet you are still lurking on the forum. What are you hoping to gain from that?

I have to say that Trainz has been a great program for me, and I am happy with my 2004 version. It does everything I want it to, and works fine with my RailDriver.

Best wishes,
Padster

johnwhelan
February 1st, 2008, 01:15 PM
Barry, you say that your association with Trainz has ended, yet you are still lurking on the forum. What are you hoping to gain from that?

I have to say that Trainz has been a great program for me, and I am happy with my 2004 version. It does everything I want it to, and works fine with my RailDriver.

Best wishes,
Padster

Let's get this straight, some one who has purchased a number of different versions of Trainz directly from Auran, which means Auran got the full $ amount not the usual 15%, contributed 150 items to the DLS, a number of which have been downloaded more than 20,000 times and has indirectly contributed more items to the DLS. Who happens to have a fair number of models already created in Blender that just need a decent exporter. I don't care what he hopes to gain, I'm just very pleased he still floats around.

I think he has identified a problem that could affect future sales of Auran's products and that is ease of use of CMP.

We know enough about cmp to say that it can be a cause of frustration. Rob has come up with a list of things to try to get it running when it has a problem. It probably just needs a decent set of easily followed procedures for trouble shooting.

At the end of the day Auran needs to sell more software to pay salaries etc. CMP has many good points but it could be made a little more robust.

If Auran have the choice between encouraging someone who has contributed to the DLS, brought multiple versions of Trainz and identifies problems that if solved would hopefully encourage more sales and some one who doesn't seem to have contributed to the DLS, runs an old version of the software and is content to infer the newer stuff isn't worth the money what would your advice be?

Remember get it wrong and Auran no longer exists.

Cheerio John

Ferngren
February 1st, 2008, 01:20 PM
Snipped...
Just off topic a second, when I'm playing TRS2006 I always get the 'Fatal Exception' screen but only when I close the program down. If Auran could bring out a product that didn't have 'Fatal Exception's' all the time, all might be forgiven.

My own fix to this since long, has been to use Esc-key when exit from Driver, Railyard and Surveyor instead of clicking on exit or quit. When coming to the last screen before exiting to desktop, I wait a good 10 seconds before hitting Esc otherwise it may hung.

I have to agree with big b here, CMP works best off-line without the whole DLS in the TAD. It so easily get corrupted otherwise. I've had very few problems since I started to use the DL Pro. Also, never ever run faulty content -even if it seem fine at first - crashes may come later.

Boco
February 1st, 2008, 01:37 PM
johnwhelan -

I read Padster's remarks as tongue-in-cheek. Perhaps differently then you.

Boco

johnwhelan
February 1st, 2008, 02:34 PM
johnwhelan -

I read Padster's remarks as tongue-in-cheek. Perhaps differently then you.

Boco

If it was please then please take my reply as being tongue in cheek as well.
:wave:
Cheerio John

johnwhelan
February 1st, 2008, 02:50 PM
Here's a quick summary of some (not recommended) last resorts I sometimes use when experiencing difficulty...

If CMP fails to start I ctrl+alt+del to see if there is another instance of ContentManager running amongst the processes and end it if there is.

If it seems to have forgotten my login or think I have no FCT etc I check that my C:/Progra~/Auran/TC/Settings folder hasn't any content set to read-only. Then I ensure that the login details are entered.

If it still can't connect I make sure there's no firewall dramas etc.

If it even still can't connect I sometimes choose "Use Internet Explorer Settings" in the CMP settings internet tab which sometimes helps.

If it seems to crash frequently then usually I am on a machine that is chocka block full of DLS content. Sometimes it helps in those situations to go to C:/Progra~/Auran/TRS2006/ and delete the assets.tdx and cache folder; because occasionally the database becomes corrupted for unknown reasons. You need to run TRS2006 after deleting those things before launching CMP again; and it may take a long time to start TRS2006 that first time after deleting the database.

For anyone who missed my previous post, these are things I have noted about running CMP on a wide variety of machines and configurations.

Hope this helps someone.

~R~

Chirs Nawlins eventually tried"

In settings/miscellaneous there is a check box
'suppress update data base at start up'. This box was checked in TC and obviously was preventing TC from seeing anything.

I unchecked it and Download Helper came to life. I had to close and re launch TC to get it to see the DLS but it's all running now."

So perhaps that could be added in as a possible solution.

Thanks John

sethmcs
February 1st, 2008, 03:03 PM
Somehow CMP has to be separated from Trainz, in order for all of us to get on the same page.

Ed

I agree 100% and might add that the future verision also needs to be backwards compatable as well to make all content available to the new verision.

paulhobbs
February 1st, 2008, 03:13 PM
I agree 100% and might add that the future verision also needs to be backwards compatable as well to make all content available to the new verision.
Not a chance in hell of that. You want a new version to be compatible with the thousands of busted assets on the DLS and elsewhere? I thought it was clear that TC is faster and smoother because it doesn't attempt to do this.

Fix the faulty assets or delete them and you'll certainly have less problems.

Paul

SVAndrei
February 1st, 2008, 03:15 PM
Not a chance in hell of that. You want a new version to be compatible with the thousands of busted assets on the DLS and elsewhere? I thought it was clear that TC is faster and smoother because it doesn't attempt to do this.

Fix the faulty assets or delete them and you'll certainly have less problems.

Paul

True. Backwards compatibility is at this stage impossible. TRS 06 already has issues with it. I try (and manage) to fix most of my content. I mean, most of the time is just some misused tag. It's dead easy, even with CCP. There are tutorials out there, so anyone can do it.

meridious
February 1st, 2008, 04:37 PM
You want a new version to be compatible with the thousands of busted assets on the DLS and elsewhere?


Sure, why not ? We have to work with busted software all the time. :hehe: I'm not just talking about Trainz either. Every software company puts out busted software in one shape or another.

I've personally never worked with any other software or game where you had to apply an update or patch to a fresh install. I'm not a software writer and don't pretend to be. If I was, I would have surely used a better "patching" system than the one used for this.

As for cmp itself, I find it very slow in doing what I am trying to achieve. Not to mention that CMP and CCP are computer hogs. Maybe not now with TC but with 06 it sure is. CMP is also the biggest reason why I am staying clear of any future Trainz release. From the beginning of cmp, I said then that it should have been optional and not mandatory.

Here's a good solution to broken content...........

Since CMP reads a cdp file and lets you know if it is faulty or not, this could be done. Write into cmp that if it finds faulty content, not to allow it into the game at all. Oh wait, there are some of you thinking that it wouldn't work. Sure it would. Anything can be done if there is someone to do it. But then again it wouldn't work cause then we really wouldn't have a need for the dls would we ?

You all seem to forget that TC wasn't even aimed at those of us that have been around for awhile. It was aimed at an entirely new market. So when CMP hangs up the first time these "new" people use it, alot of them aren't going to be too interested in keeping the software. Especially now when the dls is having all the problems it has been as of late. Some will persist but many will just toss it. Those that do toss it will do nothing but tell their friends to stay away from it.

I guess what kills me the most about the issues or non issues with cmp is that no matter what happens at any given time.........it's always the end users fault. No matter what the software is, it's usually the same result. If it doesn't work then you are doing something wrong.

Now the dls is a different story. It is tired, has been through a crash and is in desperate need of an overhaul. Now that there are only what 4 people left at auran working on Trainz, the dls is sorely neglected. They weren't very concerned before about getting it taken care of because they were more worried about getting Fury out the door. Now they don't seem to have the time and/or resources to do it.

sethmcs
February 1st, 2008, 04:53 PM
Not a chance in hell of that. You want a new version to be compatible with the thousands of busted assets on the DLS and elsewhere? I thought it was clear that TC is faster and smoother because it doesn't attempt to do this.

Fix the faulty assets or delete them and you'll certainly have less problems.

Paul

Why can't software fix the problems? Maybe I am naive about such matters but isn't as simple as this. Read cdp file and compare to acceptable format. If cdp is not acceptable make it acceptable. I am no programmer and I don't want to fix content! I still believe that third party software could be the solution here. Trainz Objects fixes content for TRS2004. I bet it could be improved to fix content for other versions as well. Provide asset fixing software outside of the game then get rid of the CMP and free up system resources.

paulhobbs
February 1st, 2008, 05:07 PM
Why can't software fix the problems? Maybe I am naive about such matters but isn't as simple as this. Read cdp file and compare to acceptable format. If cdp is not acceptable make it acceptable. I am no programmer and I don't want to fix content! I still believe that third party software could be the solution here. Trainz Objects fixes content for TRS2004. I bet it could be improved to fix content for other versions as well. Provide asset fixing software outside of the game then get rid of the CMP and free up system resources.
The software can't fix all of the problems in the assets because some are so screwed up it's impossible to second guess what the author really intended. What are you going to do about misspelled tags? Make a guess about what it should be?

TrainzObjects attempts to fix assets and sometimes fails miserably, I don't see that anything else could do a perfect job. If you don't want to fix content get on to the author and get them to fix it. That way it only gets fixed once on the DLS and not 10000 times on the end user's machine.

I'm willing to bet I use CMP a lot more than most people and I've had very few problems with it, even at the beta stage. CMP is the best bit of TRS2006 by a long way, and as it's the front end to TAD it's responsible for the enormous improvement in the startup speed of TRS, not to mention the fact that it makes the production of error-free content (or the correction of faulty content) much easier than it was before.

Paul

Barry
February 1st, 2008, 05:30 PM
Just like to add to clarify my previous posts for (VISTA plus CMP plus Classics)

Nothing to do with the download station.
Nothing to do with XP.
Nothing to do with trs2006 as never used it.
Nothing to do with trs2004 as no problems with it.
Nothing to do with running default routes in classics with Vista as no problems with them.

CMP is required to commit content for Surveyor, as far as I know, and as such with all the "fixes" I had used was unusable and route making was impossible.
Computer new 8600 gts.

Again academic post only (past tense), as no longer asociated with trainz as regards its sofware or use of it's sofware for further content making.
Post just to clarify my previous posts.
Details in previous posts


Barry

Rob
February 1st, 2008, 05:31 PM
Paul is right, it would be marvellous to have the software correct all the issues automatically; but it would take an enormous effort to provide something that usably understands what to do when it finds an error.

Provided a fix can be derived from the contents of the asset, it could start altering values, image sizes etc to it's heart's content only to change the asset into something other than intended.

In some cases things are missing from the 3D mesh itself such as attachment points; in some cases texture files, coronas etc are missing; some items refer to other items that are no longer available anywhere. The list goes on.

Once a broken asset is loaded into the game the code can make decisions about how to work around the errors, but in many cases it has to go to considerable lengths to compensate for them.

After a while, the code will bump into an asset that it really hates or become bogged down working around errors. This often results in Auran receiving a host of messages and complaints, reports of bugs, "I am going back to the old version" etc.

So basically the less time we spend debugging issues related to faulty items, the more time we can spend fixing real bugs.

I doubt if there's a creator here who for whatever reason hasn't introduced an erroneous item at some stage. I have done it heaps of times. As a creator it's not something you need to be ashamed of, but it's something you should strictly avoid.

Cheers!

~R~

sethmcs
February 1st, 2008, 06:28 PM
Rob,

Does this mean there is no vetting process on the DLS? I thought when items are uploaded that they are checked before being downloaded.:confused: I have thousands of items of content yet my TRS2004 works fine. I use Trainz Objects every once in a while to scan assets and fix broken stuff if its easy. Messages like your missing a "bracket" somewhere I ignor and it doesn't seem to make a difference to my computer or Trainz. Does that missing bracket make a real difference?

johnwhelan
February 1st, 2008, 06:38 PM
Paul is right, it would be marvellous to have the software correct all the issues automatically; but it would take an enormous effort to provide something that usably understands what to do when it finds an error.

Provided a fix can be derived from the contents of the asset, it could start altering values, image sizes etc to it's heart's content only to change the asset into something other than intended.

In some cases things are missing from the 3D mesh itself such as attachment points; in some cases texture files, coronas etc are missing; some items refer to other items that are no longer available anywhere. The list goes on.

Once a broken asset is loaded into the game the code can make decisions about how to work around the errors, but in many cases it has to go to considerable lengths to compensate for them.

After a while, the code will bump into an asset that it really hates or become bogged down working around errors. This often results in Auran receiving a host of messages and complaints, reports of bugs, "I am going back to the old version" etc.

So basically the less time we spend debugging issues related to faulty items, the more time we can spend fixing real bugs.

I doubt if there's a creator here who for whatever reason hasn't introduced an erroneous item at some stage. I have done it heaps of times. As a creator it's not something you need to be ashamed of, but it's something you should strictly avoid.

Cheers!

~R~

There is an issue though with expecting the content creator to fix content and that is the DLS count goes back to zero.

Now the interesting thing is that since all the old versions are held on the DLS with their download counts it should be possible to show the total number of downloads for all versions. Drop in 86627:1711 into a kuid search atd you'll see what I mean.

Tafweb's tool does quite a nice job of picking out the most popular downloads, can anyone think of a way to pick up and total all the downloads of all the versions? Might be useful to show the most popular downloads.

Even if we can't we can at least say to content creators that if you upload a corrected version the total downloads are held on the DLS.

Auran should be able to run something down the DLS to pull off the kuid number and downloads even the normal hidden ones so that a report can be made up.

The other suggestion I would make is that faulty assets that appear to have been abandoned ie the creator hasn't logged onto the DLS or forum for a year could be corrected and a new version issued with a comment in the description that the item has been corrected to resolve problems. This couldn't be done for items that need the GMAX sorting out but quite a few items are config.txt file problems. Or possibly TARL might help here http://tarl.trainz.ws/

It makes more sense to me to have the item fixed once than have 10,000 people go to Tarl. Perhaps a compromise would be to send the creator a suggested new version and ask them to upload it?

Alex23 seems to have done nicely as a one man band. However is there a war to move forward from an item to the corrected version if it is under a different kuid?

Cheerio John

Natvander
February 1st, 2008, 06:45 PM
Rob,

Does this mean there is no vetting process on the DLS? I thought when items are uploaded that they are checked before being downloaded.:confused: I have thousands of items of content yet my TRS2004 works fine. I use Trainz Objects every once in a while to scan assets and fix broken stuff if its easy. Messages like your missing a "bracket" somewhere I ignor and it doesn't seem to make a difference to my computer or Trainz. Does that missing bracket make a real difference?

That 'innocent' missing bracket can certainly ruin an asset.

Take the following example...

mesh-table {
default {
mesh "mesh.im"
auto-create 1
effects {
effect1 {
kind "attachment"
att "a.cabcentre"
default-mesh <kuid:61119:1170>
}
}
}
fan {
mesh "fan.im"
anim "fan.kin"
att "a.fanblade01"
auto-create 1
}
flow_needle {
kind "needle"
mesh "switch.im"
att "a.bpflow_needle"
limits 0,300
att-parent "default"
auto-create 1
effects {
lever {
kind "attachment"
att "a.atthere"
default-mesh <kuid:61119:1180>
}
}
}
username "blah blah"
........


The mesh table is missing its last bracket, meaning the mesh table isn't closed. All entries after the last bracket are considered to be part of the mesh table, and as 'username' (and all further tags) is not intended to be in a mesh table, it will be flagged as an error.

Picking up a missing bracket in a basic mesh table is easy, but when you start getting more complicated tables (such as locos, cabs etc) it becomes alot harder.

Euphod
February 1st, 2008, 08:13 PM
As we all know CMP in 2006 and TC is already ignoring faulty content, of the "built in" variety.

If CMP can be instructed to ignore that, then it's logical to assume that it can be instructed to ignore any category of content with faults. From there, it doesn't seem a huge leap of faith to be able to adjust by percentage how many pieces of content are to be given a pass.

I propose making the package with every improvement to the code as possible, and letting the user decide what content to use. They may decide to fix nothing, and then continue on, or they may decide to fix everything to conform to the new code. It's better than losing all the access to the content available right now, and it's pretty much what people are doing now anyway. It removes CMP as a pitchfork, and once folks see that locally repaired content can allow for new features, it adds a seductive drawing point. In addition; knowing the "whack jobs" here like I do, there will be endless posts of benchmarking content, if it's an advantage or not, and the like.

Of course, this is all my opinion only, and I salivate at the thought of being proved wrong.

Ed

chrisracer8903
February 2nd, 2008, 01:53 AM
I totally agree with you Euphod. We need to keep Trainz with backwards compatability because it's the content avalible now that also keeps people drawn to this game insted of the new sims like Rail Simulator. The option you suggest Euphod should be used in future Trainz releases. -Chris

AJ_Fox
February 2nd, 2008, 02:00 AM
I hope this software that will fix all the errors is multilingual. :)

Cheers

AJ

thegrindre
February 2nd, 2008, 03:09 AM
Here's a quick summary of some (not recommended) last resorts I sometimes use when experiencing difficulty...

If CMP fails to start I ctrl+alt+del to see if there is another instance of ContentManager running amongst the processes and end it if there is.

If it seems to have forgotten my login or think I have no FCT etc I check that my C:/Progra~/Auran/TC/Settings folder hasn't any content set to read-only. Then I ensure that the login details are entered.

If it still can't connect I make sure there's no firewall dramas etc.

If it even still can't connect I sometimes choose "Use Internet Explorer Settings" in the CMP settings internet tab which sometimes helps.

If it seems to crash frequently then usually I am on a machine that is chocka block full of DLS content. Sometimes it helps in those situations to go to C:/Progra~/Auran/TRS2006/ and delete the assets.tdx and cache folder; because occasionally the database becomes corrupted for unknown reasons. You need to run TRS2006 after deleting those things before launching CMP again; and it may take a long time to start TRS2006 that first time after deleting the database.

For anyone who missed my previous post, these are things I have noted about running CMP on a wide variety of machines and configurations.

Hope this helps someone.

~R~


These are the words I hated;
If CMP fails to start...
If it seems to have forgotten my login...
If it still can't connect...
If it even still can't connect...
If it seems to crash frequently...


And, this, is the absolute reason(s) I chucked '06 in the trash and am using '04 exclusively, now.:)

Thank you for reminding me of all of the headaches I once had. I will never purchase any later version of Trainz again with CMP.
Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice, shame on me...

amigacooke
February 2nd, 2008, 03:36 AM
Can't say I've ever had any more problems with TRS06 than I had with TRS04. Therefore, I will happily purchase Trainz Classics 3 and hopefully enjoy the promised enhanced steam loco performance and the ability to use different passenger sets on the stations.

happyj
February 2nd, 2008, 05:41 AM
What was the question ? Oh yes: "Does Trainz have a future?" The responses in this thread suggest no under the current circumstances especially with the problems related to content compatabity.

However these opinions only represent 45 or 50 users. What about the other 250,000 other users, many of whom probably don't even know the forums exist let alone participate.

Auran should consider some means of soliciting their opinions, either via direct mail or the Internet. A clearer picture of what is needed would probably emerge.

Cheers.

nicolaas1
February 2nd, 2008, 05:53 AM
I think a better question would be "Has the helpdesk from auran a future ?"

Sended a list off death links to them to get them fixed or removed from the helpdesk, no response from them.

In the past these problems where fixed in a day or two.

DLS death links problem still is very much alive, and what is the helpdesk doing ?

Nothing, just closing my request for help without a respons.

Well auran, sorry but this is not the way to treath people who pay for a firstclass ticket.

Ok they are only with 3 but still, they are there to fix problems.

johnwhelan
February 2nd, 2008, 10:44 AM
What was the question ? Oh yes: "Does Trainz have a future?" The responses in this thread suggest no under the current circumstances especially with the problems related to content compatabity.

However these opinions only represent 45 or 50 users. What about the other 250,000 other users, many of whom probably don't even know the forums exist let alone participate.

Auran should consider some means of soliciting their opinions, either via direct mail or the Internet. A clearer picture of what is needed would probably emerge.

Cheers.

Now my interpretation is different on reading the same thread. There are some issues but these can be overcome and there are people who still think Trainz is worth while. Certainly enough to make it commercially viable.

Cheerio John

happyj
February 2nd, 2008, 03:14 PM
I don't disagree with your interpretation but what Auran needs now is a steady and reliable cash flow and as far as i can see nothing in this thread adresses that situation.

From my view it would appear that CMP is flawed for whatever reason, faulty content, freeze ups for whatever reason, and others.

Faulty content seems to be a major problem affecting the stability and performance of CMP. What are the solutions and who is going to execute them.

Hopefully TC 3 will provide a short term solution to Auran's ability to continue with the Trainz franchise.

Cheers.

aardvark1
February 2nd, 2008, 03:48 PM
....snip....but what Auran needs now is a steady and reliable cash flow and as far as i can see nothing in this thread adresses that situation....snip.....Hopefully TC 3 will provide a short term solution to Auran's ability to continue with the Trainz franchise.

Cheers.

Both points made by you are correct.

But, for many here, it is just easier to complain about what Auran should have done, what Auran should not have done, and what Auran should do going forward.

What people seem to forget is that Auran is a business, with a business plan as to how they should operate and what they should produce and release. We can suggest things, but it is Aurans decision to act on these suggested improvements.

We are where we are with Trainz,...right or wrong.

Nothing, let me repeat that.....nothing... is going to change the past....we can only look to the future.

Respectfully,
Ron

JCitron
February 2nd, 2008, 06:20 PM
I think that Trainz does have a future. This is not just a program, but a way of life for many people here, thus the concern that many people have for the viability of the organization. My company went through the same kind of downsizing - from 150 people to 12, and we're actually doing better and even posted a profit for the first time.

Anyway, the program its self can run stand alone, and really doesn't need an Internet connection other than for downloading content. So if the DLS were to poof out, the program will continue on its way, and as others have said here, the many user groups and sites will pick-up content and make it available.

If anything, I would love to see someone else host the DLS and keep the content updated. This would give Auran the extra freedom to focus on program development instead of devoting time to uploads and content repairs. The added benefit of hosting the content else where too would be to have a chance to revamp the whole DLS interface so that packs could be handled differently, and the content could be presented and organzied in a better fashion.

In regards to CMP, I've had very few problems that weren't solvable. First of all I found that by running CMP directly instead of through the launcher, I get better performance. I actually have a seperate shortcut on my desktop for CMP alone. I found that the launcher added to the memory overhead that CMP needs to run.

Like Ed and the others here, I have also spent some time removing or reparing faulty content. In many cases the errors were just typographical errors. In other cases, well the content went to the bit-bucket because it was missing components that went beyond what I could handle. After doing this, the whole Trainz 2006 suite has work like a champ for me. I've spent upwards to over 9 hours in Surveryor and Driver and exited without a glitch back to the destop when done.

Anyway, this is my 2-cents on this.

John

happyj
February 3rd, 2008, 04:03 AM
Very well said. As a prime example of your comment about someone else hosting the DLS all you have to do is look at Train-Sim.Com, Nels Anderson has served the MSTS Community well for many years when Microsoft offered nothing in support of the software.

I have TRS 2004, TRS 2006. and Trainz Classics installed om my computer, each on a separate drive, and have downloaded many layouts and objects for each. Unlike Ed, yourself and many others, I have not corrected (old age a major factor) any faulty assets, yet I have not had that much trouble with CMP crashing etc. I have also found that Trainz Classics performs better than the others including layouts created for other editions (separate thread).

My main problem has been with CMP freezing on the DLS and related problems. I have found that the more often that you use CMP the better it performs.

Happy Trainzing.

TrainMan12
February 4th, 2008, 11:10 PM
It all depends on the community. If there are no people to support it, then there's no point in continuing it. Auran could quit right now on us, and I think the community could still pull together.

Capt_Haddock
February 6th, 2008, 02:33 PM
Yes, Trainz does have a future. The worst thing about it is the constant whining coming from some parts of this forum, other than itís fine.

The program (2006) works very well once it has settled in and even CMP, in my experience at least, does all it is supposed to do. I do wonder if many of the supposed CMP problems are RTFM related, or more likely, due to operator impatience. It can take a while to get going if the assets.tdx file is cleared and if there are a lot of faulty items.

However, the biggest asset of the program is the wonderful Trainz community, between us we have every base covered and there is enough skill and determination for the Trainz to live on even if Auran folds.

Finally, thanks JCitron for the running CMP directly tip, I would never have thought of that, assuming CMP to be part of Trainz. Sharing these useful tips is what gives the Trainz community is strength and what makes it such a powerful and rewarding program to use.

Thanks and regards

Chris

Captain_Scarlet
February 27th, 2008, 08:49 AM
but I wouldn't want to go back to setting up consists outside of trainz and then hoping they'll fit at the trackmark I've selected in order to use them.You could always dump yer trains on a 2D map as before but without the constraint of the trackmarks... Why have to be in the 3d environment with all the lagging to place a train?
Scenery building is a seperate activty to driving and should not mix. The placing of trains in Surveyor was a big mistake despite the older system being less malleable.

QR1408
March 1st, 2008, 05:19 AM
You could always dump yer trains on a 2D map as before but without the constraint of the trackmarks... Why have to be in the 3d environment with all the lagging to place a train?
Scenery building is a seperate activty to driving and should not mix. The placing of trains in Surveyor was a big mistake despite the older system being less malleable.[/quote]
Oh no not back to UTC!!!! Most Trainz user will stay with Auran because it's more than a game. But IMHO Auran should come to the party and provide a programme that's easy to use, doesn't find so many downloads faulty. And a content manager that is easier for newcomers to deal with.

aodgh0st
March 1st, 2008, 06:47 AM
well i personally like trainz (2006 here), i have my problems with it sure, but lets face it. i spent 20 bucks on trs06, and alot of downloads for free. if i were to make one of these routes with the amount of cars and engines, i'd probably be in debt, or wouldn't at all. i can tell ya that for the price i paid, and the amount of stuff i can do with it, im sold. in fact i've told my bosses and coworkers bout it, and about 10 people have bought this game. they like it. i'll continue to buy new versions (0nce i upgrade my pc) until they stop making this game

game=simulator, game is a shorter word lol

john259
March 1st, 2008, 07:27 AM
One important thing that distinguishes Trainz from most computer games is that games usually come to an end, whereas you'll never run out of new things to do with Trainz.

John

chillywilly
March 5th, 2008, 10:43 AM
I know that Auran shutting down is too bad and they say Trainz will still be going on, but will the DLS be still running and will the current group be making new "TRSs" to compete with Rail Simulator and MSTS 2? -Chris

Kuju's Rail Simulator isn't much to worry about. MSTS-X is supposed to be out next year.

Trainz has got to do something about it's graphics engine or it will go the way of the buggy whip. Will Trainz go on? That is really the question. The smugness of the folks at Auran thinking they have the only game in town is coming around and biting them in the rear end. Innovations keep a product moving. I don't see different routes or add-ons as innovations. New sales are a key to success. You want to attract new customers, give them something new and exciting to use, not rehashes of old, out of date technology.

I would still be an avid user and advocate of Trainz, if there had been any true improvements in the Trainz product. I saw the transition from TRS2004 to TRS2006 as a joke. Some new utilities, a different interface to the same old CARTOON graphics engine. Innovations? NADA, ZILCH, ZERO. Keep selling buggy whips to the folks that own cars and the future isn't so bright.

Bill

rjhowie1
March 5th, 2008, 06:55 PM
Much in what you say there about progress that i can agree with however in fairness this is a broad church so to speak.The high end person who wants state of the art will feel things are not moving enough in that direction whilst others will be happy that they can run trains and actually build something without needing a degree in techyness.

Sourdough
March 5th, 2008, 08:10 PM
Will Trainz go on? That is really the question. The smugness of the folks at Auran thinking they have the only game in town is coming around and biting them in the rear end....
Bill
This is true only in chillywilly world....:cool:

Originalwelshborder
March 5th, 2008, 08:10 PM
I'm concerned that very few registered users actually use the forums, which suggests that Auran must have a quite small recurring customer base despite the apparent sales numbers. There are few who have been here since the start, so the funds can't be rolling in to keep the DLS etc. going for long-the economics don't make much sense.

I agree it needs a major upgrade to attract more customers, but will the rescources be there to do this or even to maintain the current level?

chrisracer8903
March 5th, 2008, 09:13 PM
I'm concerned that very few registered users actually use the forums, which suggests that Auran must have a quite small recurring customer base despite the apparent sales numbers. There are few who have been here since the start, so the funds can't be rolling in to keep the DLS etc. going for long-the economics don't make much sense.

I agree it needs a major upgrade to attract more customers, but will the rescources be there to do this or even to maintain the current level?

I agree, but don't forget, people do upload content and don't use this forum so it's not "All" about this forum. -Chris

amigacooke
March 6th, 2008, 05:46 AM
I'm concerned that very few registered users actually use the forums, which suggests that Auran must have a quite small recurring customer base despite the apparent sales numbers.
Not necessarily. I've all the 'Total War' games since Medieval War, but I've never posted on their forums.

Originalwelshborder
March 8th, 2008, 08:51 PM
True, but I suspect that buyers of Trainz who don't visit the forums will not appreciated the true depth of it, given the additional information that is really necessary to run it properly and get full value, many may give up in frustration and won't be repeat buyers, and won't be around to support future development, which is/would be a great pity?

Zwabberaar
March 9th, 2008, 06:34 AM
True, but I suspect that buyers of Trainz who don't visit the forums will not appreciated the true depth of it, given the additional information that is really necessary to run it properly and get full value, many may give up in frustration and won't be repeat buyers, and won't be around to support future development, which is/would be a great pity?

I think the the strength of Trainz is that the box version comes with enough content to entertain yourself for a VERY long time without the need of additional custom content.

Many people simply don't have the time to invest in hunting custom content with all its potential problems to get it to work. The built-in content is for lots of people more then enough to satisfy their trainzing needs.

That is why I think that the Classics approach is the wrong one. The buyer gets only one or two routes for almost the same amount of money you had to pay for TRS06 or TRS04. With the prices for these two down it is, in my opinion, a better solution to buy that then TC. I would therefore like to see sales numbers that compare TRS06 and TC.

The few active members on this site do not represent the majority of the people that buy this simulator and are happy with what they get in the box. A previous poster remarked that he had bought all Total War games but never participates on any related forum. For me it is the same. I have also bought and played all instalments ( back to Shogun ) but never felt the need to join the on-line community or start working with game modifications. We have to realize that, most likely, the largest group of people that buy and use Trainz is the group that play with it just from the box .

misterchugg
March 9th, 2008, 07:30 AM
hi all
i only bought TC 1+2 because of what they wrote on their website.
well, i have a game that will not let me play saved game session unless i wish to put up with all my trains running at 14kph.

i am still waiting on an answer to my emails to the helpdesk and also in the TC section

i do not feel like restarting the session every time i want to play.
thats way too boring.

for me buying this game was a waste of my money

i think i shall go back to my wargames

cheers
ron

steamboateng
March 9th, 2008, 10:14 AM
After muddling through 10 pages of posts regarding Aurans future, I've decided to add my own muddling view. About Trainz future I'm left confused and unsure.
Confused because Trainzers have differing views, and therefore opinions of what the sim is about. Auran claims 600,000 Trainz users and 250,000 registerd users worldwide. (I reference a 2007 U-Tube promo from it's own developement offices in Australia.) Certainly, not all users are into route building or content creation. I'm sure the great majority are the casual gamers, not the dedicated virtual hobbists who are the core of the DLS and Forums. Yet this relatively small core group is the heart of TRS2004 and TRS2006 (and more). TRS04 and 06 are open ended sims, inviting the users input and creativity. But Trainz has gone also in the other direction, to become more user freindly to the casual gamer. That's where the money is.
Unsure because I don't know which way Trainz will go. In its present downsized form, surely we can't expect a new, totally overhauled 'Engineer's Editon" as envioned several years ago. (A revamped and modernized Trainz, employing the latest technical improvements in coding, graphics, etc. Not backwards compatible but implying a newer DLS version with creations from later, more user freindly graphics programs. Gmax is being touted as a dead horse, with no developer support, and few can spare the expense of 3DX.) What's the latest vesion of Trainz going to look like? I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression it's a TRS2006 with many of its issues resolved (?).
I feel that Auran is in a quandry, itself, over Trainz. Not having the staff or funding to create a new Trainz that will compete with the newer railroad sims coming to market, will it mark time cloning its past (and somewhat outdated) successes.
A google of Auran popped up a few surprising comments and insights. Of paticular interest was this blog re www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=88 (http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=88). Perhaps TRS06 and CMP complaints are justified.
I still love ya, Auran, but I'm concerned that if you drop the ball and don't cater to the needs of the dedicated vitual railroading community, your gonna lose it, perhaps to your competitors.

Regards from a loyal fan :wave:

paulhobbs
March 9th, 2008, 11:37 AM
A google of Auran popped up a few surprising comments and insights. Of paticular interest was this blog re www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=88 (http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=88). Perhaps TRS06 and CMP complaints are justified.
I don't see what the blog has to do with Trainz. He makes it clear that his beef is with Auran Developments which was set up for Fury. The point about GMax is also a red herring, I reckon that content creation will move over to Blender eventually for the heavy duty stuff, possibly using GMax for the final export. After all, Blender can export 3DS and GMax can import it - and Trainz couldn't care less about which program was used to create the mesh.

Paul

jeffmorris
March 9th, 2008, 04:22 PM
I lost interest in KRS after the MK1 patch that caused weird problems related to "drawing" the tracks with the mouse in World Editor. I don't want the Auran company to go out of business but if they can't develop new versions of Trainz, I will have to stop using my computers and start making things out of wood. Making things out of wood should keep me busy but my workshop needs to be cleaned out. I'm in the process of building a computer-controlled machine that cuts out and routes wood. I already spent about $360 building the machine so far and I will have to spend about $500 for special motors, controller that connects to a computer, and software.

johnwhelan
March 9th, 2008, 06:32 PM
After muddling through 10 pages of posts regarding Aurans future, I've decided to add my own muddling view. About Trainz future I'm left confused and unsure.
Confused because Trainzers have differing views, and therefore opinions of what the sim is about. Auran claims 600,000 Trainz users and 250,000 registerd users worldwide. (I reference a 2007 U-Tube promo from it's own developement offices in Australia.) Certainly, not all users are into route building or content creation. I'm sure the great majority are the casual gamers, not the dedicated virtual hobbists who are the core of the DLS and Forums. Yet this relatively small core group is the heart of TRS2004 and TRS2006 (and more). TRS04 and 06 are open ended sims, inviting the users input and creativity. But Trainz has gone also in the other direction, to become more user freindly to the casual gamer. That's where the money is.
Unsure because I don't know which way Trainz will go. In its present downsized form, surely we can't expect a new, totally overhauled 'Engineer's Editon" as envioned several years ago. (A revamped and modernized Trainz, employing the latest technical improvements in coding, graphics, etc. Not backwards compatible but implying a newer DLS version with creations from later, more user freindly graphics programs. Gmax is being touted as a dead horse, with no developer support, and few can spare the expense of 3DX.) What's the latest vesion of Trainz going to look like? I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression it's a TRS2006 with many of its issues resolved (?).
I feel that Auran is in a quandry, itself, over Trainz. Not having the staff or funding to create a new Trainz that will compete with the newer railroad sims coming to market, will it mark time cloning its past (and somewhat outdated) successes.
A google of Auran popped up a few surprising comments and insights. Of paticular interest was this blog re www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=88 (http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=88). Perhaps TRS06 and CMP complaints are justified.
I still love ya, Auran, but I'm concerned that if you drop the ball and don't cater to the needs of the dedicated vitual railroading community, your gonna lose it, perhaps to your competitors.

Regards from a loyal fan :wave:

The majority of users do not have to use GMAX to create. A surprisingly few meshes form the basis of many reskins and as long as some creators can create in 3DS, GMAX or do a fudge from blender into GMAX thence to Trainz I don't think it matters. Trainz has content, it has a lot of people who know about trains and provide the research to get the models correct.

If I think about word processors we use to chase around after the latest version. These days to a large extent I don't care which it is they do the job. I'm more interested in what has been written, and I think we are getting to the same point in Train simulators. If you look at the DLS older items without visible loads, operating couplings and the other recent fancy bits and pieces are still very popular downloads. In other words people are not so hung up on having the latest and greatest quite so much any more.

They have imagination and I think that will work fine for the next few years. After that I don't know, but it takes about three years to write a new sim, say roughly two to three years to build content up. MSTS version one still has a very strong following. Currently the group of virtual hobbists who create are still here. Many are at an age when they prefer to stay with something that works rather than learn something new. The forum is an extremely smooth running one with experienced moderators that are helpful and I think this still gives Trainz an edge.

Yes software that made full use of modern computers would be nice but realistically it isn't going to happen with any sim for a while its just too complex and being number one but going bankrupt doesn't help anyone.

The new MSTS is supposed to be built on the Flight Simulator engine OK but its unproven and that's still a 32 bit engine.

Cheerio John

WileeCoyote
March 10th, 2008, 12:22 AM
Out of all honesty, I think because people are still releasing loads of excellent content for Trainz, and the mere fact that we are discussing its future goes to show that yes. It does indeed have a future.

WileeCoyote:D

skiingiggy
March 10th, 2008, 12:58 AM
I think it does, It's just a matter of weather or not it lasts in Auran. It will definately have a future in all of the private groups and forums that are still going strong though, and in some cases, still growing rapidly.

atsfrr3000
March 12th, 2008, 01:01 AM
Another thread about Trainz's future was started, and promptly locked with a link to this thread, but not before I made this reply concerning the author's views on graphics. I think it's still relevant here.


All valid points in my opinion, but unfortunately, they're points that have hashed to death ad nausem here, and no progress has been made in that area.

An interesting thing about graphics I've noticed - it seems to me that a lot of "sim" users, and train sim users specifically, seem to think that good graphics and good gameplay are mutually exclusive - a sim simply cannot have both. I remember when the first screenshots of KRS surfaced, showing off some pretty good (then) graphics compared to Trainz, and it was instantly panned here, with many users asserting that "the developers are just playing with fancy graphics, it has no gameplay whatsoever," even though not a single one of them knew what was going on inside Kuju at the time, and it's almost impossible to comment on gameplay from an early promotional screenshot.

So unfortunately, until this idea that one simply cannot have both is proven to be a load of bunk, you're going to find that a lot of users here are going to criticize the idea of updated graphics and prefer that Auran continue to use the same old rustic JET 2.0 it's been using for nearly 5 years now. Not a bad idea, since the Trainz team - at last count - totalled 4 people, but sometimes people here generally tend to go a bit overboard in defending the use of stone age graphics.

BLueNeon
March 12th, 2008, 02:26 AM
Another thread about Trainz's future was started, and promptly locked with a link to this thread, but not before I made this reply concerning the author's views on graphics. I think it's still relevant here.
Originally Posted by atsfrr3000
All valid points in my opinion, but unfortunately, they're points that have hashed to death ad nausem here, and no progress has been made in that area.

An interesting thing about graphics I've noticed - it seems to me that a lot of "sim" users, and train sim users specifically, seem to think that good graphics and good gameplay are mutually exclusive - a sim simply cannot have both. I remember when the first screenshots of KRS surfaced, showing off some pretty good (then) graphics compared to Trainz, and it was instantly panned here, with many users asserting that "the developers are just playing with fancy graphics, it has no gameplay whatsoever," even though not a single one of them knew what was going on inside Kuju at the time, and it's almost impossible to comment on gameplay from an early promotional screenshot.

So unfortunately, until this idea that one simply cannot have both is proven to be a load of bunk, you're going to find that a lot of users here are going to criticize the idea of updated graphics and prefer that Auran continue to use the same old rustic JET 2.0 it's been using for nearly 5 years now. Not a bad idea, since the Trainz team - at last count - totalled 4 people, but sometimes people here generally tend to go a bit overboard in defending the use of stone age graphics.



Perhaps the debunking will come with another new sim ... can't post the name of that product though.

BN

Heaton
March 12th, 2008, 05:27 AM
The majority of users do not have to use GMAX to create. A surprisingly few meshes form the basis of many reskins and as long as some creators can create in 3DS, GMAX or do a fudge from blender into GMAX thence to Trainz I don't think it matters.

Cheerio John

In fact there are far easier apps than Blender, with its quirky interface, that can be used to create meshes, and which are also free. Gmax need only be an import/export tool.

There's Wings 3D, also Metasequoia LE. For format conversion to 3DS and texture-skinning there's Lithunwrap (you need to Google around a bit for the latter).

amigacooke
March 12th, 2008, 05:43 AM
Here is a list of requests for patch 2 of KRS from UKTrainSim message boards. It seems it is not only the Jet engine that suffers from snow and rain in tunnels.


Not in any order of importance.
1. Fully functioning Level Crossings
2. Signalling with AI trains working correctly
3. No snow or rain while in tunnels
4. Exhaust on the Deltics
5. Steam from Whistle and open Cylinder Cocks
6. Improved Texturing (Paint Tools) control to enable more accurate placing of textures.
7. Timetabling ability
8. Some manual control over pathing
Trainz seems to have most of these bases covered. I agree a new graphics engine would be good, but I suggest that economic realities (at least at present) make that unlikely.

Barry
March 12th, 2008, 07:33 AM
In fact there are far easier apps than Blender, with its quirky interface, that can be used to create meshes, and which are also free. Gmax need only be an import/export tool.

There's Wings 3D, also Metasequoia LE. For format conversion to 3DS and texture-skinning there's Lithunwrap (you need to Google around a bit for the latter).
---------------------------
Luckily there are other viewpoints in this world and to balance the viewpoints.

Blender is very easy to use, in my opinion, and have used it now for about 5 years. Also free, open source, constantly updated, and about 10 meg file size I think. You just need to learn which keys to click by working through any of the numerous worldwide tutorials available.

http://www.blender.org/


E for extrude. R for rotate. B box to draw a box around. S scale. G to grab.move. Seems logical to me.

Open and close any number of windows you want and change to and from them as you wish. I only use the opening 2 anyway, top for mesh and bottom for texture, etc. and change them to whatever I want and back.


Will export to numerous file types and export as 3ds to add attachments points, etc and drag mesh into gmax window if you wish, with or without texture. See other threads.



B

paulhobbs
March 12th, 2008, 08:36 AM
I'm going to concur with Barry here - Blender's interface scares the hell out of people that are used to seeing an icon for every possible operation but it is very logical and the extensive use of keyboard shortcuts means that you can work very quickly once you know your way around.

Two big plus points - it's free and extremely powerful. The mapping tools are better than Max9 for example and it can do texture baking all in the same program.

BTW in KRS it used to rain in the cabs, not only in the tunnels (of course maybe that's been fixed now).

Paul

john259
March 12th, 2008, 08:54 AM
If anyone's interested, there's a Wikibook on Blender
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro
I'm not qualified to comment on whether it's any good or not but IMHO just about anything is likely to beat that program's own documentation.

John

Heaton
March 12th, 2008, 09:42 AM
Hey I wasn't knocking Blender!

I first tried it back in the day before it went GNU, and have tried it on and off at various times and in various builds since. It's an amazingly comprehensive 3D app, and it being free is great. Personally, though, I just couldn't get along with that interface. IIRC the app uses OpenGL for everything including the user interface, not just rendering, and I experienced (back then) notable lag when running from Windows (launching from DOS got rid of that though).

I found other, simpler apps for modeling and texturing, while for raytrace rendering I've an early version of Cinema 4D that does the job.

So I guess it's what you get familiar with using. Blender is probably the best all-in-one package and worth learning if you want the full works, with photorealistic rendering, radiosity, animation capabilities etc., but if you're just doing mesh-modeling and texturing with static objects, it isn't really necessary.

Horses for courses.