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robin_hoods
January 16th, 2008, 06:27 PM
Hi all I dont know if you have seen the post by Rob of Trainz Team.
but to give a shortened version
Quote Technical support will now be limited to TRS2006 and later versions of Trainz only.
Where questions relate to earlier versions of Trainz, customers will generally be directed to use the Trainz Forum for answers.
In my opinion this is a big mistake, there are a lot of users that dont have TRS2006 or T.C and need the same sort of Technical support that the team will now only give to 06 or TC.
As a Betta tester for the SP2,SP3 and SP4 service packs for 04 and a DLS contributor I say that the technical support should not be diminished.
A lot of content is still being done for 04 and with it the need for support should continue.
Here is a link to the full post http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=21235

Natvander
January 16th, 2008, 07:20 PM
So what do you propose they do, given the current number of staff?

MaDDoG1221
January 16th, 2008, 08:35 PM
What happened to all the other staff?

Natvander
January 16th, 2008, 08:52 PM
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=19706

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=19926

http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=19927

You didn't read all the news at the end of last year?? :eek:

MaDDoG1221
January 16th, 2008, 09:12 PM
Obviously not..
Thanks 4 links.

deeelare
January 16th, 2008, 09:46 PM
robin-hoods,

I would not think they would discontinue support for 2004 along with 2006 and TC. I can understand prior versions, as I believe the numbers are dwindling and almost everything would be almost certainly have been addressed on the Forums ?

I would not give it too much concern, we are all going to have to fend for ourselves (the community), until things begin to "look up" !
And/or take a total ------- !

My thoughts ---DLR

sethmcs
January 16th, 2008, 10:01 PM
I have TRS2004 and never had a technical problem that needed to be discussed with someone at Auran. The forum IS the best form of technical support from my experience. There are a lot of members who are glad to help. Have problem post it!:p

Euphod
January 16th, 2008, 11:14 PM
So what do you propose they do, given the current number of staff?

Farm it out to some call center in India?

Seriously, Robin Hoods is always helping folks who need it, and I have watched him toil away with no recognition for years answering questions about every version, versions I don't even remember the details of anymore! I would say he, more than anyone else has a good sense of just how much support the older versions require.

Unfortunately, I don't think that's going to change anything.

The new budget is going to impact some users, that's certain, and not In a good way.

Ed

backyard
January 17th, 2008, 03:38 AM
8) I have only once contacted helpdesk.

And do you know what my problem was?....my lack of experience with CIT.

Yes, I got help, but by thinking the problem through, and considering any changes I made to my computer via WindowsXP, searching the Auran Forum Community, and using Google to search definitions and such, I fixed the problem.

The Software Instructions, for Auran TRS, is thorough, and complete. I new this from the beginning. No question in my mind that Auran Games Rules!

I held out, even after I bought TRS2006, until the release of "The Loops" route, forced me to reinstall TRS2006, following instructions to the letter, written by AJ Fox, on my new computer, using Vista Home Premium.

I studied all the Third Party Websites I could find for answers to questions asked by the TRS Forum Community, and have no issue I cannot handle, using TRS2006.

I suggest anyone who is using any version prior to '06 to buy TRS2006 soon. All your present files, can be imported into '06.

steamdrivre
January 17th, 2008, 07:03 AM
8) I suggest anyone who is using any version prior to '06 to buy TRS2006 soon. All your present files, can be imported into '06.


I disagree, Backyard. All creators should stay creating in '04, that way all versions of content can be seen and 'played' with.
If you're a creator, create in '04. If you're a player, use any version you feel comfortable with.:)

Euphod
January 17th, 2008, 07:07 AM
You don't have to create in any one version to make your creation compatible with a different version.
Ed

wreeder
January 17th, 2008, 07:46 AM
I think the change is reasonable. What issue other than a bad serial number or something related to the website couldn't be answered on the forum? The forum is a 24/7 helpdesk in just about any language.

Now if guests can't post then maybe a forum should be created for users who haven't registered yet. It would have to be moderated to keep spam out of course.

William

pottersfan
January 17th, 2008, 08:01 AM
I'm a bit amazed they ever intended to keep offering tech support for a version now superceded by (at least) two versions.

Guess the issue is people with "Pride and Joy" Layouts in 2004 ... I have one ... But I never need any technical support for it (what's wrong with SP4?!) ... As said above, is there really any issues (other than bad CD) that "technical support" and not "user education" are required for?

Forums are for User Education - Technical Support is for broken products. And the answer to "broken product" (e.g. hypothetical: "won't run on Vista") is "buy a newer version".

One of the issues I always thought would arise with the (brilliant for users) Auran "business model" is that because we can all create content for free, one need not ever buy anything new ...

... not that the many companies who went down the "collectables" route ever made any money either :p

It might make a bit of sense to put up a dedicated TRS2004 (and earlier) forum, and auto-redirect TRS2004 HelpDesk to there, to make the policy clear (and easier for users to support other users).

(And I'd waffle on about the ending of free access to DLS ... and so on ... to improve the business model ... but it's lunchtime :udrool: )

pf

johnwhelan
January 17th, 2008, 08:48 AM
With other software packages the first support question is are you running the latest version?

Guess what the answer is if you are not.

I think it's reasonable.

Cheerio John

Magicland
January 17th, 2008, 09:24 AM
If you don't have TRS2006, you pry $10 out of that vice of a wallet and buy it. Now, I understand that some users prefer TRS2004 out of personal preference, and that's fine, just don't expect any support for it. At this point, there really shouldn't be any need for it anyway.

As for creating content, there really aren't any features of TRS2006 that don't work in TRS2004, however the content should be created in TRS2006 to ensure that it doesn't present any errors (as there are many things TRS2004 allows that TRS2006 won't), and then given a Trainzbuild of 2.4 to provide TRS2004 compatibility, if so desired.

Euphod
January 17th, 2008, 09:46 AM
As for creating content, there really aren't any features of TRS2006 that don't work in TRS2004, however the content should be created in TRS2006 to ensure that it doesn't present any errors (as there are many things TRS2004 allows that TRS2006 won't), and then given a Trainzbuild of 2.4 to provide TRS2004 compatibility, if so desired.

Precisely.
Ed

robin_hoods
January 17th, 2008, 11:44 AM
There seems to be a lot of if you havent got the latest version tough get it
If it wont work on your system tough go buy a new system.
I thought that when Aurun brought out these games they would run on most systems with the minimum of problems.
We are now in a position where a lot of users cant get 06 and CMP to work on their PCs.
I don't think this is just down to their systems but also with the way CMP and 06 works.
Now those of you with both 06 and 04 will know any layout ect made in 06 will not work in 04 and just changing the build number wont make it work either in fact no 06 content is backwards compatible without a lot of work being done to make it so.
You cant just stick 06 stuff into 04 and get it to work.
So just advising users to get the latest version is wrong and expecting it to work, because for a lot of users it wont

AJ_Fox
January 17th, 2008, 12:45 PM
I would think that anyone who needs assistance with 04 or any other version can get it right here in this Forum. Call it support or whatever but it works.

Cheers

AJ

zatovisualworks
January 17th, 2008, 12:55 PM
Call it support or whatever but it works.


Call it community, AJ. ;)

Other products don't even know what that concept means! :hehe:

Teaching the one who doesn't know is one of the universal common thoughts, and not necessarily coming from the original source, who can even teach less than the private eye . ;) :hehe: Just a question of time committed to just playing and fixing! Is Adobe teaching me photoshopping? By no means at all! Not my intention or my wish, I prefer other private sources.

Alberte :wave:

PerRock
January 17th, 2008, 10:35 PM
I would like to remind everyone that there is also the IRC chat where there is almost always someone there who (at the very least) can point you in the right direction, and even share some laughs. There is a whole thread out there explaining the best ways to access the chat (so I won't go into that here) but if you are looking for a speedy response to your problem the IRC chat is probably the best place to ask.

peter

Magicland
January 17th, 2008, 11:33 PM
Now those of you with both 06 and 04 will know any layout ect made in 06 will not work in 04 and just changing the build number wont make it work either in fact no 06 content is backwards compatible without a lot of work being done to make it so.
You cant just stick 06 stuff into 04 and get it to work.
So just advising users to get the latest version is wrong and expecting it to work, because for a lot of users it wont

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Almost all content created for TRS2006 works perfectly well with TRS2004 without any modification. ALL the content that comes with TRS2006 was created and tested IN TRS2004. TRS2006 breaks TRS2004 content, not the other way around.

Mike10
January 18th, 2008, 03:25 AM
IIf you're a creator, create in '04.

What if you want to use a feature that is only available in later versions?

Mike.

psycho_aussie
January 18th, 2008, 06:21 AM
While I don't entirely agree with the decision to drop support for 04, I can understand that the budget won't allow for it, at the moment. Hopefully that situation can change.

On that note, if the helpdesk came back, I'd put up my hand. To be blatantly honest, it's something I've been trying to get into, but I've never been in the right place at the right time, and when I finally was, Auran wasn't... Go figure...

Chris

johnwhelan
January 18th, 2008, 08:12 AM
I disagree, Backyard. All creators should stay creating in '04, that way all versions of content can be seen and 'played' with.
If you're a creator, create in '04. If you're a player, use any version you feel comfortable with.:)

Why on earth would I want to use a version that is more difficult to create in? Give me TC for creation every time, its faster for creation and fewer undocumented system features that I have to work round. I may put a 2.4 version number in but don't ask me for support on anything but TC.

Cheerio John

Red_Rattler
January 18th, 2008, 08:35 AM
I would think that anyone who needs assistance with 04 or any other version can get it right here in this Forum. Call it support or whatever but it works.AJ_Fox, that is just not good enough.


If you don't have TRS2006, you pry $10 out of that vice of a wallet and buy it. Now, I understand that some users prefer TRS2004 out of personal preference, and that's fine, just don't expect any support for itI agree with Robin Hoods, and disagree with your statement Magicland. When I brought my version/s of this product, I brought it on the understanding that ALL versions will be provided with the Helpdesk if required, and not restricted to certain versions - At the moment that is all I am prepared to say.

Red_Rattler

Natvander
January 18th, 2008, 08:36 AM
Auran has provided technical support for a product that is now 4 years old and seen 2 later versions released. I think those of us who still use 04 and have chosen not to upgrade should be a little grateful for the continued support up until now. I'm sure we all realise that in the business world (and I think some forget that Auran is a business), continued support for an old product doesn't equal dollars when the user could be buying up-to-date releases.

I'm quite sure what the answer would be from Maxis/EA if I asked for tech support for an older version of Sim City.

Zwabberaar
January 18th, 2008, 08:43 AM
I'm quite sure what the answer would be from Maxis/EA if I asked for tech support for an older version of Sim City.

After the release of Simcity4 RushHour ( 2004 ) the support from Maxis/EA dwindled to zero within a year. The game is kept alive by a group of very loyal fans that has brought the game to heights un-imaginable by Maxis/EA.

The people who have received support from Auran for an outdated product till now should indeed be grateful. It is rare that a company gives support this long.

Euphod
January 18th, 2008, 09:35 AM
Wow! What passions these games do inspire!
Ed

robin_hoods
January 18th, 2008, 11:03 AM
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Almost all content created for TRS2006 works perfectly well with TRS2004 without any modification. ALL the content that comes with TRS2006 was created and tested IN TRS2004. TRS2006 breaks TRS2004 content, not the other way around.
Ok I give you a challenge, download a 06 layout that uses 06 content or a loco that was built for 06 extract it into 04 and see if it works.
Remember you are not allowed to modify or change any of the files all you are allowed to do is change the build number to 2.4.
I can tell you that they wont work without modification, I have tried some out.

leeferr
January 18th, 2008, 11:48 AM
Some people get so passionate over a game. My guess is that we're lucky at this point to even have the fourm so that we can come here and discuss our issues. Most of the games that I have bought through the years no longer offer technical support or even a forum to discuss issues. We'll all get through this if we remain calm. Back when I was growing up, we very often had to perform a controlled burn to get rid of the underbrush, but the grass always came back green. Seems to me that Auran is in a 'controlled burn' situation. They're fighting a fire and they need our help, not our hindrance.

Magicland
January 19th, 2008, 11:45 AM
Ok I give you a challenge, download a 06 layout that uses 06 content or a loco that was built for 06 extract it into 04 and see if it works.
Remember you are not allowed to modify or change any of the files all you are allowed to do is change the build number to 2.4.
I can tell you that they wont work without modification, I have tried some out.

A route isn't content, is it? A route USES content. See if you can figure it out..

Magicland
January 19th, 2008, 11:50 AM
AJ_Fox, that is just not good enough.

I agree with Robin Hoods, and disagree with your statement Magicland. When I brought my version/s of this product, I brought it on the understanding that ALL versions will be provided with the Helpdesk if required, and not restricted to certain versions - At the moment that is all I am prepared to say.

Red_Rattler

What a curious position. See how much support you can get from Microsoft for MSTS. See how much support you can get from EA Sports for Madden 2007. Much larger companies with much larger budgets, yet you expect Auran to provide support for ancient programs just because some folks are too cheap to purchase the newer versions? Sorry, that's not the way the world works, and I suggest you take a large dose of reality... there's no software company in the world that supports obsolete versions of their products.

Let's face it, those still using TRS2004 ARE THE REASON AURAN CAN'T AFFORD SUPPORT. If they'd purchased more recent, supported versions, Auran would have more operating capital, and be more likely to develop better, newer products.

robin_hoods
January 19th, 2008, 12:53 PM
A route isn't content, is it? A route USES content. See if you can figure it out..
Which is what I said, download a layout that uses 06 content
I did not any any time say that a route was content perhaps you better read what I said again.

meridious
January 19th, 2008, 12:56 PM
Let's face it, those still using TRS2004 ARE THE REASON AURAN CAN'T AFFORD SUPPORT. If they'd purchased more recent, supported versions, Auran would have more operating capital, and be more likely to develop better, newer products.

I beg to differ on this one. That is not the reason why they can't afford support.

What got them into this trouble to begin with ??????

Whether one chooses to stick with 04, 06, TC or even UTC for that matter has nothing to do with them not making money. Maybe, just maybe, if they had taken even a third of what they sunk into Fury, Trainz would be what we all want. However, that didn't happen and won't happen.

As for support of 04 or earlier, there is probably nothing that a person can't find here or from a third party site that they need to use helpdesk for. All the person needs to do is use the SEARCH function. I'm guessing that Helpdesk is bothered with all kinds of questions that have answers for that are here already.

huubbaar
January 19th, 2008, 01:21 PM
I have both Trs04,Trs06 and TC,but TRS04 remains my favourite because it gives me little problems and there are still enough contentbuilders for 2004..greetz.

amigacooke
January 19th, 2008, 05:06 PM
TRS2006 breaks TRS2004 content, not the other way around. As I understand it (and I may have understood incorrectly) TRS06 flags up content with issues, whereas TRS04 ignores it.

steamdrivre
January 20th, 2008, 10:36 AM
Hold it... '04 flags content with issues, also, and with TrainzObjectz, equivalent to CMP so to speak, most everything can be fixed.;)
I DL '06 assets then tweak 'em a bit and run um in '04. It's no big problem.

'04 is your base game anyway and if all creators would create in '04 all 'players' could play with everything in the version of their choice.

Here's a tutorial on moving assets from '06 to '04...
http://www.geocities.com/thegrindre/Page4.html

:)

StorkNest
January 20th, 2008, 02:11 PM
Hold it... '04 flags content with issues, also, and with TrainzObjectz, equivalent to CMP so to speak, most everything can be fixed.;)
I DL '06 assets then tweak 'em a bit and run um in '04. It's no big problem.
:)

Actually, I've found since using CMP there are things I never heard about in 2004 that CMP catches. One glaring item is .TEXTURE.TXT files without images or the other way around. If I added up all the file space that was used by these unassociated files....bleah.:) And I did get VMD's GP40-2s to work in TC by using CMP also, plus I find rolling stock with certain config errors like Charlie Lear's 2 bay hopper reskins of Randall White's model and I can get them to work. I actually believe now 2004 would be improved by this, a feature TO never had.
There are some things I miss from TO, like listing a route under the maps tab and replacing items. But there are advantages to CMP over what 2004 offered.
Did I mention the new seaport that doesn't force you to use the passenger station with the ship on the wrong side?:D (It doesn't even have the station, which is good because why would people board a cruise ship and an industrial port?:hehe: )

cjlear
January 21st, 2008, 02:39 AM
Taking my name in vain, Storknest?

(Its amazing, I popped in here to check if rumours of Rob's return had been exaggerated (they're not)) and this is the token thread I was going to look at before disappearing for a few months again.)

Re the 2bay hoppers, as far as I know the only problems are caused by the incorrect texture.txt in Randy's :110 bogies. Changing to :120 I think fixes it, changing to the 120:1 I don't recommend because (although nice) they are really poly hungry. I am actually going through all my content (including the coal hoppers) and bringing them up to 06/TC spec - if not new features, then at least making sure they don't bomb out. It's an ongoing process and one that get a few minutes here and there when I'm not doing something else. This is all part of the migration of my stuff away from the DLS and onto steammachine.com so that I can update them without causing myself needless angst and nightmares battling Auran.

Gotta go, dinners ready. My email - trainz !at! steammachine.com - is still working if you want to chat about the hopper problems offline.

Cheers
Charlie

kjoriel
January 23rd, 2008, 06:51 PM
I wish support for 2004 could continue, as I have the problem that I don't have enough computer to run 2006. So it's not a matter of buying the game, I have to buy a whole new computer! On the other hand I never had any issues with 2004, so I probably won't need support

In light of the restructuring, we are fortunate that there is anything left, with or without support for 2004 or older. So I am just going to be thankful for what I have.

Auran and the Trainz community should be commended for not folding under the circumstances.

NICKEL
January 23rd, 2008, 10:12 PM
2006 ran better than 2004 did on my old computer which was a 2000+ with 1GIG of memory and a Radeon 8500se 64MB

meatloaf747
January 23rd, 2008, 11:17 PM
What happened to all the other staff?

They (Auran) told them to get on there bikes !!!!!! You know, "on your bike mate" :(

AJ_Fox
January 23rd, 2008, 11:32 PM
Wow this thread brought Charlie back.

Just goes to show you how everybody likes a little gossip. :)

Cheers

AJ

johnwhelan
January 24th, 2008, 02:47 PM
I wish support for 2004 could continue, as I have the problem that I don't have enough computer to run 2006. So it's not a matter of buying the game, I have to buy a whole new computer! On the other hand I never had any issues with 2004, so I probably won't need support

In light of the restructuring, we are fortunate that there is anything left, with or without support for 2004 or older. So I am just going to be thankful for what I have.

Auran and the Trainz community should be commended for not folding under the circumstances.

The code for TRS2006 is more efficent than TRS2004 on most machines, TC is better still. They just put more realistic computer recommendations on the TRS2006 and TC boxes but if your machine runs TRS2004 OK it will run TRS2006 plus you should get slightly higher frame rates.

Cheerio John